Official 2015 Vizio 4K UHD M Series Thread - Page 118 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3511 of 16411 Old 08-29-2015, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by stick30 View Post
I returned a Samsung JS8500 due to RVU and was just going to get another when I started reading this thread and some reviews. Everything looked great except for all the talk about how the M handle motion.

I have only owned plasma to this point so i knew I would have to tolerate some level of motion blur and poor off axis viewing.

I am pleasantly surprised how the M70 performed compared to the JS8500. I think the JS8500 processing is a little better a maybe even less from a motion perspective so I feel the price difference is not worth it for me.

Golf is a great test and I have yet see an LCD/LED handle it like a plasma but for all other sports the M70 after all the reviews surprised me and I will be keeping it.

I think this will hold me off until hopefully OLED becomes more affordable.

Thanks for your review.I watch everything on my M55-C2 Vizio and I am very happy with mine.I also use the Standard and Calibrated factory settings to view programs and I am pleased with the pictures those settings project.
I had a Vizio M550SV 1080p HDTV before I bought this model I have now and was very happy with that one too.
And when Vizio comes out with a 55" 8K UHDTV,I will upgrade to that one also.
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post #3512 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 01:00 AM
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@mpgxsvcd - I'm curious what your recommended setup would be for my scenario.

I have the M70-C3 and an Onkyo TX-NR626. I have an XB360, an XBone, a PS3 and a PC connected to the Onkyo. The Onkyo is connected currently to HDMI 1 as it was the only way I could get audio from the TV's streaming apps to the Onkyo (via ARC). The PC is used to game, watch videos/blu-rays, browse, etc. and is almost always the one active. The XBone and PS3 are used for blu-rays as well. The PC audio is done via optical in order to get DTS, and the Onkyo only takes 1 optical.

How would you recommend setting all this up, given that you recommend consoles and computer should be on HDMI 5, but I can't get ARC audio that way. I could plug something into HDMI 5, but only 1, but then the others suffer. Right now I have things configured for gaming mode on HDMI and it's not terrible. But I'd like to find an optimal solution and get things calibrated to their most common uses.

Thanks
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post #3513 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by symple84 View Post
I have a question regarding the panels. I have read that the 50" and 55" have a 60hz panel even though the processing is done at 120hz. Is this correct?
50" and 55" = native 60 HZ/effective 120HZ

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Also, is there such thing as a best M series model, except for the size difference?
They all look the same to me.
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post #3514 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by str1der View Post
The M70 doesn't come with a plastic film over the screen that I can seem to peel off does it? Coming from a Panasonic plasma and have to say I'm not exactly wowed by the picture. There just seems to be a grey dullness to the picture. I've tried a couple different settings that have been posted but it leaves the picture to dark to watch anything on Dish. Tried various things to brighten up the picture but then it tends to blowout any bright areas and peoples faces. Anyone else seeing similar? It's almost like if I took a station and zoomed in.
That "grey dullness" that you are seeing is inherent in a light-scattering panel. The darker the room the less you will notice it. If it gets to where you can't stand it you will have to try and find a TV with a light-absorbing clear panel.

I know what you mean when you say "coming from a Panasonic plasma". LCD/LED technology is disappointing and to make matters worse I am seeing articles saying that Samsung may use LG's technology (transmissive/filters) with their OLEDs versus their own emissive technology. It doesn't look good for the people who like the look of plasma.

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post #3515 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jhon69 View Post
Thanks for your review.I watch everything on my M55-C2 Vizio and I am very happy with mine.I also use the Standard and Calibrated factory settings to view programs and I am pleased with the pictures those settings project.
I had a Vizio M550SV 1080p HDTV before I bought this model I have now and was very happy with that one too.
And when Vizio comes out with a 55" 8K UHDTV,I will upgrade to that one also.
I use the sound & vision settings. I tried the RTINGS and CNET. The RTINGS setting was horrible and the CNET much better. But again I think this up to personal preference on what you see. I am color deficient and need my colors a little more saturated than most.
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post #3516 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PhlowAVS View Post
@mpgxsvcd - I'm curious what your recommended setup would be for my scenario.

I have the M70-C3 and an Onkyo TX-NR626. I have an XB360, an XBone, a PS3 and a PC connected to the Onkyo. The Onkyo is connected currently to HDMI 1 as it was the only way I could get audio from the TV's streaming apps to the Onkyo (via ARC). The PC is used to game, watch videos/blu-rays, browse, etc. and is almost always the one active. The XBone and PS3 are used for blu-rays as well. The PC audio is done via optical in order to get DTS, and the Onkyo only takes 1 optical.

How would you recommend setting all this up, given that you recommend consoles and computer should be on HDMI 5, but I can't get ARC audio that way. I could plug something into HDMI 5, but only 1, but then the others suffer. Right now I have things configured for gaming mode on HDMI and it's not terrible. But I'd like to find an optimal solution and get things calibrated to their most common uses.

Thanks
Buy a new receiver with at least dual HDMI outputs and HDCP 2.2. That is the only thing that will effectively do what you want it to do.
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post #3517 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Campbell View Post
No disrespect, but I don't this is correct. I just tried viewing the standard 4:4:4 images in 1080p on my M70 and it did not pass. It showed 4:2:2. In fact, I believe there was a post from someone in this thread that indicated Vizio technical service stated that it does not support 4:4:4 under any circumstances, even 1080p.
There lies the problem. This shouldn't be about disrespecting someone or not. It should be about getting down to the truth of what is happening. We should question everything and not just take someone's opinion as fact just because they are a so called "Expert".

The whole 4:4:4 issue is that the test pattern they are currently using can cause a failure for multiple reasons(Bit depth, 1:1 pixel mapping, and 4:4:4 non-compliance). There is no way to know which one of the issues is the problem because that test pattern tests for too many things at once. Some of those things are big issues and some aren't. If a TV is truly 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 it is extremely obvious with a computer hooked up to it. You don't need a test pattern to see it.

The reviewers are incorrectly diagnosing this as a 4:4:4 issue when it isn't. The danger there is that the real reason that the Vizio M-series fails their test is only evident with that particular test pattern. You can't see any issues with anything but that particular test pattern. Do you want to make your TV work with everything you use or one particular test pattern?

The issue with 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 is that the reduced color information causes discoloration and rain-bowing around text. This discoloring is very obvious. It doesn't take a specialized test pattern to see it. Any black text will show the issue right away.

I am not asking everyone to take my word for it. I want you all to test it yourself. Hook a computer up to your TV with an Nvidia graphics card. Then try the 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 options with your background, with text, with your browser. Test it with everything except for that particular test pattern. See if you see the difference between the 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 options. Then compare the 4:4:4 option in the same manner to a monitor that you know is 4:4:4. See if the Vizio TV exhibits any of the issues that you saw with 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 when compared to the 4:4:4 monitor.

If the test pattern is the only thing the Vizio fails why are we so caught up with that? The biggest issue here is that no one seems willing to challenge the establishment. If someone comes out and simply says the Samsung is better people here are much more willing to run with that than someone who shows evidence to the contrary. It shouldn't be that way.

I just want everyone to question everything. Question me, question the reviewers, and question the established tests. Some of them are correct and some of them aren't. It is our duty to do our due diligence and find out what the truth really is.

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post #3518 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 07:34 AM
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I think it's partially my cable to be honest. I watched some Netflix this evening and everything looked amazing.

Flip back to cable and it looks decent, but I swear I've seen better pictures on older TVs. I'm still pretty happy with it and will continue to tweak things. Anyway, seeing great quality via Netflix at least made me feel better about the purchase knowing that it isn't the TV itself.

RemoteSenses,

IS this 'grainy' effect youve been referring to reminiscent of looking through a fine screen? What you MAY be experiencing is noise artifacts stemming from upconverting a very compressed cable tv image to 4k. Ive experienced this to some extent on my new M70-C3 and find the effect is much less offensive on my premium cable channels... On channels like HBO, for instance, its barely present at all. But a 70" set will definitely tend to magnify the effect more than your 55" one. To determine if its this 'noise' from upconverting a lousy, overcompressed 1080i/1080p cable image, play with the Noise settings... Set Reduce Signal Noise to 'HIGH', and Reduce Block Noise to 'MEDIUM'. See if this effects the 'graininess' youve been seeing. If so, then your problem isnt hardware but source content..

In addition to the NetFlix test youve given it, confirm its the cable tv signal that is your problem by trying the Youtube app on your tv and search for '4k' for excellent content. You wont see it in 4k, but you SHOULD see excellent, clear, relatively noise-free content.. If this content looks good to you, then, again, you'll confirm where your problem lies.. On mine, I definitely get this upconversion noise from my Cox Cable 1080i signal. Interestingly, while some camera shots look worse than what I get on my 5 yr old 1080p Samsung LN52B630, some look better with more clear detail. And premium channels look better also, so Im inclined to keep it, even though Ive been considering exchanging it for a 65" 1080p Samsung J6300 since 90% of what I watch is Cable.

Good Luck! Anxious to hear your results.

Last edited by boostm3; 08-30-2015 at 07:44 AM.
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post #3519 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 07:59 AM
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Are these screens reflective or not?

I thought I read that matte screens are not and doesn't these models have matte screens. Lights reflecting in the screen bugs the h*** out of me.
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post #3520 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 08:15 AM
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Are these screens reflective or not?

I thought I read that matte screens are not and doesn't these models have matte screens. Lights reflecting in the screen bugs the h*** out of me.
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post #3521 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 08:25 AM
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Hi. I recently purchased a m70-c3. When doing calibration using a i1 display pro and calman 5 software I have noticed that when I dial in the colors there is alot of blotchiness and or artifacts when watching content. Mainly on the new Transformers movie in multiple scenes. It's easy to spot in the flesh tones and also during some of the background shots. It looks like lots of little specks, like if you were to throw glitter on the screen.

When reverting back to the default factory color controls the effect goes away. Is my set bad and should I exchange it for a new one? Or am i simply missing something during the calibration? Have you noticed any of you noticed this during your calibrations?

Thank you.
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post #3522 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rgathright View Post
Are these screens reflective or not?

I thought I read that matte screens are not and doesn't these models have matte screens. Lights reflecting in the screen bugs the h*** out of me.
All screens have some reflectivity. I have 6 Vizio Tvs and my opinion is that the reflectivity of all of those TVs was less distracting than the Samsung JS850 I had. The RTINGs.com reviews do a pretty good job of defining how reflective the TVs are.
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post #3523 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 08:34 AM
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Hi. I recently purchased a m70-c3. When doing calibration using a i1 display pro and calman 5 software I have noticed that when I dial in the colors there is alot of blotchiness and or artifacts when watching content. Mainly on the new Transformers movie in multiple scenes. It's easy to spot in the flesh tones and also during some of the background shots. It looks like lots of little specks, like if you were to throw glitter on the screen.

When reverting back to the default factory color controls the effect goes away. Is my set bad and should I exchange it for a new one? Or am i simply missing something during the calibration? Have you noticed any of you noticed this during your calibrations?

Thank you.
Set Reduce Signal Noise to High for everything except for computer use. Under no circumstances should you ever hook a Blu-ray player up to HDMI 5 because that input disables the Reduce Signal Noise setting.

The New Transformers movie is actually a terrible transfer. They over exaggerate the colors and push the highlights and shadows to look more like HDR. This causes excessive noise. You must absolutely turn Reduce Signal Noise up to High to reduce the impact of the noise. The noise is actually encoded in the disc.
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post #3524 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Set Reduce Signal Noise to High for everything except for computer use. Under no circumstances should you ever hook a Blu-ray player up to HDMI 5 because that input disables the Reduce Signal Noise setting.

The New Transformers movie is actually a terrible transfer. They over exaggerate the colors and push the highlights and shadows to look more like HDR. This causes excessive noise. You must absolutely turn Reduce Signal Noise up to High to reduce the impact of the noise. The noise is actually encoded in the disc.
The big question I have regarding this noise issue related to poor source content, whether it be from a lousy transfer or a lousy over compressed cable 1080 image, is would we see the same thing (noise) with, say, a more expensive 4k set like the Samsung JU7100? Ie, would a tv with a better scaler handle this better producing less noise for us to view? How bout a good 65" 1080p set? I like my new M70-C3, but am not real happy about how some of the cable tv stuff looks.. Premium channels look great; others are hit or miss due to the noise issue.. Setting Noise Reduction on High helps, but that creates other problems with blurred or blotchy flesh tones and sometimes weird facial images/blotchiness/blurriness.

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post #3525 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Set Reduce Signal Noise to High for everything except for computer use. Under no circumstances should you ever hook a Blu-ray player up to HDMI 5 because that input disables the Reduce Signal Noise setting.

The New Transformers movie is actually a terrible transfer. They over exaggerate the colors and push the highlights and shadows to look more like HDR. This causes excessive noise. You must absolutely turn Reduce Signal Noise up to High to reduce the impact of the noise. The noise is actually encoded in the disc.
Sure, however when reverting back to an uncalibrated image the set displays the image fine. I feel like it's more in the context of the color tuner not being able to project the calibrated image properly using the said controls. And I guess I'm curious if any others have noticed the issue also after calibration. I really like the set minus these issues and not being able to calibrate the image(while decent sans it) is bothersome. The 70in fits my space perfectly and I don't really wanna downgrade(size) to a JS8500. Which is why if no one else is having this issue post calibration, I would just exchange the set and try again.
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post #3526 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 09:07 AM
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There lies the problem. This shouldn't be about disrespecting someone or not. It should be about getting down to the truth of what is happening. We should question everything and not just take someone's opinion as fact just because they are a so called "Expert".

The whole 4:4:4 issue is that the test pattern they are currently using can cause a failure for multiple reasons(Bit depth, 1:1 pixel mapping, and 4:4:4 non-compliance). There is no way to know which one of the issues is the problem because that test pattern tests for too many things at once. Some of those things are big issues and some aren't. If a TV is truly 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 it is extremely obvious with a computer hooked up to it. You don't need a test pattern to see it.

The reviewers are incorrectly diagnosing this as a 4:4:4 issue when it isn't. The danger there is that the real reason that the Vizio M-series fails their test is only evident with that particular test pattern. You can't see any issues with anything but that particular test pattern. Do you want to make your TV work with everything you use or one particular test pattern?

The issue with 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 is that the reduced color information causes discoloration and rain-bowing around text. This discoloring is very obvious. It doesn't take a specialized test pattern to see it. Any black text will show the issue right away.

I am not asking everyone to take my word for it. I want you all to test it yourself. Hook a computer up to your TV with an Nvidia graphics card. Then try the 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 options with your background, with text, with your browser. Test it with everything except for that particular test pattern. See if you see the difference between the 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 options. Then compare the 4:4:4 option in the same manner to a monitor that you know is 4:4:4. See if the Vizio TV exhibits any of the issues that you saw with 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 when compared to the 4:4:4 monitor.

If the test pattern is the only thing the Vizio fails why are we so caught up with that? The biggest issue here is that no one seems willing to challenge the establishment. If someone comes out and simply says the Samsung is better people here are much more willing to run with that than someone who shows evidence to the contrary. It shouldn't be that way.

I just want everyone to question everything. Question me, question the reviewers, and question the established tests. Some of them are correct and some of them aren't. It is our duty to do our due diligence and find out what the truth really is.
Great post, and this is the heart of the question I had asked a few days ago before I picked up my M70: if it can't do 4:4:4, is that a big deal for most usage profiles? Maybe if you're doing critical photo work, but for most? Probably not. This was echoed by a few folks that responded to me, and I agree with your assessment 100% now that I have my set.

On the other hand, for some it could be important, especially if they are planning on using the display as a monitor from up close. I personally use a 49" LG UHD TV as a display and sit only about 3' from it. 4:4:4 chroma is critical to me in that application. Regardless of whether it's really critical for each of us or not, it's still important in a forum such as this one, where many prospective buyers come searching for key information to assist them in making a purchase decision, that we report the truth. And the truth of the matter is that this set DOES NOT pass 4:4:4 in any (common) format, including 1080p30 1080p60, or UHD.

When I say the test image, there really is no ambiguity about the test - it either passes or it doesn't. The image doesn't lie, and I've checked it personally, so I'm not just taking the word of someone else. The fact that it's been verified by someone at Vizio just clinches it. For all those that wish to test for themselves, the test pattern is here: http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large-29ooi6.png (be sure to view in native resolution - the page can load zoomed in, and you wont' be able to view it properly that way)
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post #3527 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 09:29 AM
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Curious, does the M70-c3 do any sort of video upscaling (specs seem to say so, but how does that compare with receiver upscaling)? With xbox 1, ps4 and a gt 730 card in a htpc, i guess there really is no need for upscaling to begin with? Debating whether or not there is a need for a newer receiver that does the video upscaling to 4k (current one being a denon avr-1912, which i think i need to replace to pass the 4k signal perhaps). I'm thinking there is no need for the receiver to do the upscaling, at least given my current sources.

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post #3528 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 09:58 AM
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Curious, does the M70-c3 do any sort of video upscaling (specs seem to say so, but how does that compare with receiver upscaling)? With xbox 1, ps4 and a gt 730 card in a htpc, i guess there really is no need for upscaling to begin with? Debating whether or not there is a need for a newer receiver that does the video upscaling to 4k (current one being a denon avr-1912, which i think i need to replace to pass the 4k signal perhaps). I'm thinking there is no need for the receiver to do the upscaling, at least given my current sources.
Yes, all LCDs have built in scalers to convert the incoming signal to their native resolution (UHD, in this case), unless they support resolutions that are less than native with 1:1 pixel mapping (which almost all TVs do not). The scaler in the M70 seems to be very competent at scaling 1080p signals, which is the vast majority of what you're going to be sending to it, since pretty much every source out today is going to scale the content to that res before outputting to the TV. My receiver is a couple of years old and only supports HDMI 1.4a, which I suspect is the case for most receivers on the market. HDMI 1.4a does not support 4k60, so if you're upgrading that, it's a good idea to get one that supports HDMI 2.0 at least, preferably 2.0a (with HDR). I'm not even sure there are any receivers out today that support 2.0a pass through.

For right now, since the market has so little true 4k content, everything you currently have it fine, and I wouldn't upgrade. The TV does all the scaling you need.

The only exception is if you're using an HTPC as your source and have some real GPU horsepower to drive MadVR to upscale content to native 4k60 using NNEDI3 scaling or some other advanced algorithm.
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post #3529 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 10:21 AM
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Yes, all LCDs have built in scalers to convert the incoming signal to their native resolution (UHD, in this case), unless they support resolutions that are less than native with 1:1 pixel mapping (which almost all TVs do not). The scaler in the M70 seems to be very competent at scaling 1080p signals, which is the vast majority of what you're going to be sending to it, since pretty much every source out today is going to scale the content to that res before outputting to the TV. My receiver is a couple of years old and only supports HDMI 1.4a, which I suspect is the case for most receivers on the market. HDMI 1.4a does not support 4k60, so if you're upgrading that, it's a good idea to get one that supports HDMI 2.0 at least, preferably 2.0a (with HDR). I'm not even sure there are any receivers out today that support 2.0a pass through.

For right now, since the market has so little true 4k content, everything you currently have it fine, and I wouldn't upgrade. The TV does all the scaling you need.

The only exception is if you're using an HTPC as your source and have some real GPU horsepower to drive MadVR to upscale content to native 4k60 using NNEDI3 scaling or some other advanced algorithm.
It seems to do fine with non cable 1080p stuff, and even with some cable 1080i. But the noise inherent on some cable channels gives it fits. Some sets within a few hundred dollars of the m70-c3 are purported to have better upscalers. Any chance these would produce a better cable image?
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post #3530 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 10:33 AM
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Yes, all LCDs have built in scalers to convert the incoming signal to their native resolution (UHD, in this case), unless they support resolutions that are less than native with 1:1 pixel mapping (which almost all TVs do not). The scaler in the M70 seems to be very competent at scaling 1080p signals, which is the vast majority of what you're going to be sending to it, since pretty much every source out today is going to scale the content to that res before outputting to the TV. My receiver is a couple of years old and only supports HDMI 1.4a, which I suspect is the case for most receivers on the market. HDMI 1.4a does not support 4k60, so if you're upgrading that, it's a good idea to get one that supports HDMI 2.0 at least, preferably 2.0a (with HDR). I'm not even sure there are any receivers out today that support 2.0a pass through.

For right now, since the market has so little true 4k content, everything you currently have it fine, and I wouldn't upgrade. The TV does all the scaling you need.

The only exception is if you're using an HTPC as your source and have some real GPU horsepower to drive MadVR to upscale content to native 4k60 using NNEDI3 scaling or some other advanced algorithm.
Yeah i think i may need to upgrade the gt 730 in the htpc, only issue is, arent many low profile better cards out there, at least less expensive ones.. i'm beginning to see that to get the full 60hz or better out of the card/tv ill need as you mentioned a newer receiver and card..

I was considering jumping to the Yamaha 579 receiver and it also supports hdcp 2.2, though i'm not sure i really will need 2.2 or anytime soon, even with newer cards.

Either way, sounds as if video upscaling isnt really needed in the receiver portion.

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post #3531 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 11:09 AM
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Anyone notice a bit of trailing/ghosting/smearing in certain images in darker scenes when playing Amazon Ultra HD? It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's most noticeable with moving objects, such as people. I see it in certain darker scenes in Mozart in the Jungle (which is a great show btw.)

I never see it in any other sources. Is it something to do with Amazon?

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post #3532 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 11:33 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by Chris Campbell View Post
On the other hand, for some it could be important, especially if they are planning on using the display as a monitor from up close. I personally use a 49" LG UHD TV as a display and sit only about 3' from it. 4:4:4 chroma is critical to me in that application. Regardless of whether it's really critical for each of us or not, it's still important in a forum such as this one, where many prospective buyers come searching for key information to assist them in making a purchase decision, that we report the truth. And the truth of the matter is that this set DOES NOT pass 4:4:4 in any (common) format, including 1080p30 1080p60, or UHD.

When I say the test image, there really is no ambiguity about the test - it either passes or it doesn't. The image doesn't lie, and I've checked it personally, so I'm not just taking the word of someone else. The fact that it's been verified by someone at Vizio just clinches it. For all those that wish to test for themselves, the test pattern is here: http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large-29ooi6.png (be sure to view in native resolution - the page can load zoomed in, and you wont' be able to view it properly that way)
The issue is that someone has told you that the test image only tests for 4:4:4 and nothing else and you haven't done anything to confirm if that is true or not. Instead the only evidence you have provided is simply that some random person at Vizio said it can't do 4:4:4.

I provided conclusive pictures demonstrating that with it set to 4:4:4 there are absolutely zero issues with using it as a monitor because it is in fact doing 4:4:4. However, when you truly output 4:2:2 there are distinct and very detrimental issues which are not Visible with this TV in 4:4:4 mode at all.

Everything you said completely falls apart if the TV can fail that test for reasons other than being 4:2:2. Please demonstrate that the test pattern you mentioned is not susceptible at all to differences in bit depth and scaling. Because if you don't eliminate those two things as variables you cannot make any definitive statements about this like you erroneously did.

You have to question what you are told. You can't just take everyone's word for it.

Just for reference this is what the Vizio M80-C3 displays for the test pattern at 4K @ 30 FPS 4:4:4. Do you know how to determine from the test pattern whether this is 4:4:4 or not? Both 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 show up. So which one is it?

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post #3533 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 12:14 PM
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Here is what 4K @ 30 FPS 4:2:2 looks like with "Text" and with the test pattern. You can see the 4:4:4 on the screen with the test pattern and so technically this should be passing. Yet you can see the obvious issues with the text color bleeding. In this case the test pattern incorrectly indicates 4:4:4 when it is in fact 4:2:2. That is because there are many factors that can make the 4:4:4 appear in the test pattern. There is only one thing that can affect the "Black" text color bleeding like this. That is if it is 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.



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post #3534 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm75 View Post
Yeah i think i may need to upgrade the gt 730 in the htpc, only issue is, arent many low profile better cards out there, at least less expensive ones.. i'm beginning to see that to get the full 60hz or better out of the card/tv ill need as you mentioned a newer receiver and card..

I was considering jumping to the Yamaha 579 receiver and it also supports hdcp 2.2, though i'm not sure i really will need 2.2 or anytime soon, even with newer cards.

Either way, sounds as if video upscaling isnt really needed in the receiver portion.
In my opinion two HDMI outputs and HDCP 2.2 are both critical. I believe the least expensive Yamaha Receiver with those features is the RX-V779. That is the receiver I have but I would have bought the Yamaha RX-A850 instead. I think it is virtually the same price as the RX-V779 now.
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post #3535 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Here is what 4K @ 30 FPS 4:2:2 looks like with "Text" and with the test pattern. You can see the 4:4:4 on the screen with the test pattern and so technically this should be passing. Yet you can see the obvious issues with the text color bleeding. In this case the test pattern incorrectly indicates 4:4:4 when it is in fact 4:2:2. That is because there are many factors that can make the 4:4:4 appear in the test pattern. There is only one thing that can affect the "Black" text color bleeding like this. That is if it is 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.

No, this is showing only 4:2:2, as it's supposed to. I have a 4:4:4 capable LG that shows it correctly, and it's quite different - the "4:4:4" on the bottom is a much darker shade than the background, and the "4:2:2" at the top is very difficult to read. Not at all like the photo you're showing. Can you try this same image while outputting 4:4:4? See if it looks different.

I admit I'm stumped regarding your first set of images. I can't reproduce what you've created there - I get color bleeding on text even if I'm sending 4:4:4. Regarding your comments about scaling and bit depth, I'm afraid I'm not sure quite what you're arguing. If EITHER of those are the issue here, the problem is much worse than a simple lack of 4:4:4 chroma support. Bit depth is very obvious if it's off, and it's no different for the Vizio than any other set given the same 32 bit input from your graphics control panel. If you're suggesting that the Vizio just can't scale the image properly, then the entire image would be soft when displaying a desktop. But over/underscan would not flip flop the test image results for some reason. It's the color, not the sharpness or scaling that's inverting the image. Frankly, if the issue were that the Vizio isn't scaling correctly, then this would be unusable as a PC monitor regardless.

I agreed with your assertion that a lack of 4:4:4 chroma for the Vizio isn't a critical issue for the majority of users, and probably not noticeable in many use cases. See this thread for a more in depth discussion of this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...ng-thread.html It's somewhat dated, but no less relevant today.

I'll get off the stage now and let everyone else figure this out. For my purposes, I'm satisfied with my Vizio set, regardless of whether it can or cannot do 4:4:4.
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post #3536 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
In my opinion two HDMI outputs and HDCP 2.2 are both critical. I believe the least expensive Yamaha Receiver with those features is the RX-V779. That is the receiver I have but I would have bought the Yamaha RX-A850 instead. I think it is virtually the same price as the RX-V779 now.
Any particular reason why the favoring of dual HDMI outputs? Curious.. $799 is escaping my range a bit though.

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post #3537 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 01:44 PM
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If you have a Fry's near you and you can be patient, you can get a really good deal on receivers when they do their "name brand XXX" in the Friday ad. You'll have to go to the store to find out what brand, wade through a couple ugly ducklings AND you'll have to be able to act fast when the pretty girl comes to the dance on Friday morning but it was worth it to me. When they have a pretty girl, they go fast. I'm fortunate to have 4 Fry's near enough that I was able to capitalize. A few years ago I got an RXA800 and two Denon AVR791s for less than $250 each. You'll find last year;'s models as the distributors change out stock. I liked the Denon's better but when all got wiped out in a lightning strike I replaced everything with the 1020's as that was what was available in the "replacement range" for the insurance

Just for giggles I spent a little time on the Frys site

http://www.frys.com/product/7161372#detailed
http://www.frys.com/search?to=99&cat...7%20200.01*500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm75 View Post
Any particular reason why the favoring of dual HDMI outputs? Curious.. $799 is escaping my range a bit though.

Last edited by rakstr; 08-30-2015 at 01:59 PM.
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post #3538 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
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If you have a Fry's near you and you can be patient, you can get a really good deal on receivers when they do their "name brand XXX" in the Friday ad. You'll have to go to the store to find out what brand, wade through a couple ugly ducklings AND you'll have to be able to act fast when the pretty girl comes to the dance on Friday morning but it was worth it to me. When they have a pretty girl, they go fast. I'm fortunate to have 4 Fry's near enough that I was able to capitalize. A few years ago I got an RXA800 and two Denon AVR791s for less than $250 each. You'll find last year;'s models as the distributors change out stock. I liked the Denon's better but when all got wiped out in a lightning strike I replaced everything with the 1020's as that was what was available in the "replacement range" for the insurance

Just for giggles I spent a little time on the Frys site

http://www.frys.com/product/7161372#detailed
http://www.frys.com/search?to=99&cat...7%20200.01*500
I think this list is much smaller if you focus on hdcp 2.2 capable receivers.. thats why i've decided to lean on the 579 yamaha rather than a denon right now.. i'm assuming feature wise it will have all that my old denon 1912 did too such as the microphone to calibrate speakers..

Cabling wise, i'm hoping all my existing high speed hdmi cables can pass the 4k 60 signal.. theoretically they all should.

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post #3539 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
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Are these screens reflective or not?

I thought I read that matte screens are not and doesn't these models have matte screens. Lights reflecting in the screen bugs the h*** out of me.
Yes it is reflective. It is a light-scattering type of reflection (blurry/hazy/foggy) but a reflection none-the-less. Visit any electronics store and see for yourself. There is nothing matte about the panel. Some reviews say it is semi-matte which I also disagree with. Go check them out for yourself and let us know what you think.

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post #3540 of 16411 Old 08-30-2015, 06:35 PM
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Joined the M70 club today. Pretty hard to pass up the Costco deal and square trade warranty. If the updated P is announced soon and seems like a worthy upgrade at a reasonable price, maybe I'll take advantage of the 90 day return policy and upgrade but I think this TV should keep me happy for awhile. My girl said if I decide to upgrade in a year or two, I can move the M to the living room and put the new tv in the theater/game room. We move into our new house in 9 days so I'm keeping it in the box until then but very excited to mount it and get it hooked up and dial it in!
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