Official 2015 Vizio 4K UHD M Series Thread - Page 513 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15361 of 16407 Old 12-22-2016, 04:22 AM
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Symbol in status bar

I am troubleshooting a display cut out issue. When the screen comes on after being fed a 4k input the top status bar shows 2160 but to the right it shows a triangle with parentheses inside like a warning of some sort. Anyone know what that means? Can't find it in the manual.
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post #15362 of 16407 Old 12-22-2016, 04:32 AM
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Never seen that before. Check in System Information --> System Information menu, maybe there will be some more information on what is wrong?
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post #15363 of 16407 Old 12-22-2016, 04:35 AM
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Never seen that before. Check in System Information --> System Information menu, maybe there will be some more information on what is wrong?
Duh...figured it out. It was in the place where the wifi signal strength shows up....must be a network related error message. Darn...thought it was going to give me a hint on my issue.
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post #15364 of 16407 Old 12-23-2016, 10:32 AM
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I haven't noticed any difference with the update.
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post #15365 of 16407 Old 12-23-2016, 02:26 PM
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Happy owner of the M50-C1 for about 12 months but today I moved on to my new 55" KS8000. I couldn't pass up on the price I got it for $729. My 4K gaming experience just got a whole lot better. I use this as my main PC monitor & I can see a real big difference.

The Vizio will be given to my brother who's pretty happy about it. Thanks again forumz.

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post #15366 of 16407 Old 12-23-2016, 04:50 PM
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Decided to redo the calibration on my M55-C2 today, I used the i1 Pro spectro to profile the i1D3 colorimeter and then used it to do the calibration.
What I noticed before resetting the color tuner is that the gamma with my previous settings was way too high at about 2.65, and since the Spectracal C3 meter has a bit of an error, there was too much red in the grayscale.
Anyway, after resetting the color tuner and the picture settings to their defaults of 50. The only thing I can say is the out of the box 'Calibrated dark' preset produces a very accurate grayscale. There's a little excess of blue and just a tad lack of green, but the grayscale is pretty much flat, color temp on 'Normal' at its defaults measured 6750K. At 2.4 the gamma was pretty much a flat 2.5 graph.

I normally calibrate with ALZ turned off, this time as well. I began by adjusting blue and red gains, this fixed the whole grayscale and brought the delta error down to about 0.5. In all honesty you could probably just leave the TV like that. Grayscale was spot on. But since I like my TV calibrated using the BT.1886 curve, I also tweaked the 11pt control, everything went very well and very smoothly. My previous calibration attempts took a lot more time and effort to get a good result. There was very little crosstalk between the 11 point controls compared to what I had to deal with on 1.3.15, it was pretty nice.
After I was done with that I had to make some CMS corrections to bring the colors more in line. After running the color checker, dark skin tones was spot on but light skin tones had a 2.5 error. Turning down red saturation in the CMS fixed that and brought both to below 1.0dE at the cost of slightly desaturated reds, but still around 1.3dE.

The most impressive thing with this panel is its immense native contrast.
At 120cd/m2 it measured 8468:1 (that's no typo), just to make sure I wasn't imagining things, I tried setting backlight to 70% and 100%, both had an ANSI contrast of 8670:1.
I'm really impressed, I think Vizio has done VERY well with these panels. The only thing putting it down is the pretty limited color gamut, there's no way to get the TV to properly cover REC709.

I've attached a zip containing my pre and post calibration measurements and my settings.
But here's the main results:
Contrast: 8468:1 at 120cd/m2. (without FALD)
Grayscale dE: 0.27 average, 1.43 max (at 100% there's a slight lack of red), otherwise it's perfect.
Gamma: 2.4 BT.1886, 2.37 average.
Color dE: 1.65 avg. 4.97 max. Most readings are below 2.0, some are below 3.0 and 2 are below 5.0.

@johnbrooke26 I'd appreciate it if you update my recommended settings in the Calibration Spreadsheet.
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Attached Files
File Type: zip 12-23-2016 M55-C2.zip (14.7 KB, 372 views)
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post #15367 of 16407 Old 12-24-2016, 12:51 PM
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Had some free time and decided to tweak the calibration a bit.
Results + settings.
Edit: Posted an updated spreadsheet with all of my settings.
Edit2: Updated all pics to reflect on the changes I made two days ago, also included a new zip with the results and the calibration spreadsheet.
This will be my final calibration at least until a new firmware is released.
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Attached Files
File Type: zip 12-26-2016 M55-C2.zip (15.6 KB, 580 views)
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post #15368 of 16407 Old 12-24-2016, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
Had some free time and decided to tweak the calibration a bit.
Results + settings.
It's interesting how much lower your black level is compared to mine. I don't see how a change in firmware could have caused this, but it's the reason why your contrast ratio is so high. I'm still on 1.3.34, and my black level with FALD off has always been about 0.027 cd/m2. Yours is 0.013 cd/m2. That's a pretty big difference, and actually seems too low to be true for these panels. Do you notice any black crush (loss of shadow detail) with the new firmware and your gamma at 2.4? Either way, your results look very nice. Good job!

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post #15369 of 16407 Old 12-24-2016, 05:00 PM
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Merry Christmas, guys!

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post #15370 of 16407 Old 12-24-2016, 05:48 PM
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@VBB
I don't think that the new firmware is why the contrast is high. A quick measurement I ran a long time ago with the i1d3 yielded around 7000:1 or maybe even more. And that was with incorrectly set white balance and contrast at 47.
I think it's the AUO panel, which simply has an exceptionally high contrast.
*Edit:
When I have lights on I sometimes turn of FALD as dark details tend to get lost, maybe I just don't have BL high enough, though.
Either way even with FALD off, with lights on, the blacks are really deep and I don't notice any missing details, it does really look VERY good.
When I turn off the lights I also turn on FALD and then things look pretty good as well. The X-Men Apocalypse into looked mesmerizing (even before the new firmware and re-calibration)
I took these readings yesterday, not today. Today at 70% I measured around 8850:1.
I also compared the readings with the C3 meter just to make sure I wasn't imagining things. This panel's contrast is just that good.
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post #15371 of 16407 Old 12-24-2016, 08:01 PM
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Had some free time and decided to tweak the calibration a bit.
Results + settings.
Spreadsheet updated. Merry Christmas to all! Thanks TC!
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post #15372 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 03:10 PM
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Why are my "picture size and position" (menu/picture/more picture) settings grayed out on my M70C3? The banner below ESPN flickers a little like the screen needs to be stretched one more line vertically. I recently bought an Oppo 203 4k player, so I'm now using HDMI #5 on the TV (from a Denon X4300H "bypassed" when watching TV). I know you can't change from normal to wide to panoramic on HDMI #5 , but shouldn't I still be able to resize the picture if needed? I switched back to HDMI #3 which I was using before and the picture size and position controls are grayed out there also.
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post #15373 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 04:06 PM
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I don't know of any videos that would show the effect of Clear Action, which is backlight strobing/black frame insertion. Not sure if you could even capture this with a camera. I can tell you that it's very subtle, but Clear Action basically minimizes the panel's ghosting, which seems to be a little more pronounced in the Vizios. This is not to be confused with judder due to panning or motion blur with low-framerate content (movies/scripted shows). Reduce Judder and Reduce Motion Blur take care of those.
Replying to this after many months. In the 2016 P Series thread, there was a great explanation of what "Clear Action" is supposed to do (see post 37011).

There is a simple test that illustrate the effect of CA (or Motion Interpolation): http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo...uit=0&height=0

"Only with Clear Action/GLL enabled, can you actually see the street names on the map. you can with motion interpolation as well, but that adds a lot of lag and other artifacts."

In summary, I think Clear Action does not work as intended on the M Series (At least on my M70) anyways. Here is how to verify

* Attach a computer to HDMI 5
* Setup resolution to [email protected]
* Open the testufo page
* If GLL is Off and Reduce Motion Blur is at 10, the name of the streets is readable (i.e. not blurry). <= This is expected.
* If GLL is Off and Reduce Motion Blue is at 0, the name of the streets is *not* readable (i.e. blurry, ghosting effect). <= This is expected.
* If GLL is On and CA is Off, the name of the streets is *not* readable. <= This is expected.
* If GLL is On and CA is On, the name of the streets is *not* readable, even though the backlight is much dimmer. <= This is *not* expected.
* If turning the resolution to 1080p @ 120Hz, the name of the streets is readable, irrelevant of the CA setting. <= This is expected

To convince myself I was seeing things correctly, I did the equivalent tests on my Samsung JU7100 (the equivalent of "Clear Action" is called "LED Clear Motion"), and I could *clearly* and *obviously* see that "LED Clear Motion" allowed to read the street names when enabled. It essentially looks identical to enabling Motion Interpolation in terms of readability.

I wonder if this is a "bug" or just something that is specific to the M70 Model (Sharp panel).

Anyways, I am glad to finally understand what "Clear Action" is supposed to do -- even though it does not seem to work on my M70.
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post #15374 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
Why are my "picture size and position" (menu/picture/more picture) settings grayed out on my M70C3? The banner below ESPN flickers a little like the screen needs to be stretched one more line vertically. I recently bought an Oppo 203 4k player, so I'm now using HDMI #5 on the TV (from a Denon X4300H "bypassed" when watching TV). I know you can't change from normal to wide to panoramic on HDMI #5 , but shouldn't I still be able to resize the picture if needed? I switched back to HDMI #3 which I was using before and the picture size and position controls are grayed out there also.
I believe it's grayed out when you're sending a 4K signal to the TV. If you set the Oppo to pass-through and let the TV do the up-scaling, it should be available.

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post #15375 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 07:23 PM
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Replying to this after many months. In the 2016 P Series thread, there was a great explanation of what "Clear Action" is supposed to do (see post 37011).

Spoiler!


Anyways, I am glad to finally understand what "Clear Action" is supposed to do -- even though it does not seem to work on my M70.
I have never tested this at 60Hz (I don't use 30Hz and above at all), but I'm sure you're correct in your findings. I have Clear Action enabled in my Calibrated Dark profile, and there is a subtle, but noticeable difference between on and off (other than the dimming due to BFI, of course). Raven Crimson is a major gamer. That's why CA, especially at 60 and 120 Hz, is very important to him, but it likely also behaves differently on the 2016 P/M Series.

I've said this before, but the 2015 M-series' inherent panel blur, or ghosting/trailing, whatever you want to call it, has always bothered me to the extent that I cannot watch without Reduce Judder at 3. On any of my previous TVs I would disable all motion enhancement features to avoid the soap opera effect (the equivalent of enabling GLL on our M). I find that Clear Action helps reduce this panel blur a little further, in addition to RJ.
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post #15376 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rendo View Post
Replying to this after many months. In the 2016 P Series thread, there was a great explanation of what "Clear Action" is supposed to do (see post 37011).

There is a simple test that illustrate the effect of CA (or Motion Interpolation): http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo...uit=0&height=0

"Only with Clear Action/GLL enabled, can you actually see the street names on the map. you can with motion interpolation as well, but that adds a lot of lag and other artifacts."

In summary, I think Clear Action does not work as intended on the M Series (At least on my M70) anyways. Here is how to verify

...

I wonder if this is a "bug" or just something that is specific to the M70 Model (Sharp panel).

Anyways, I am glad to finally understand what "Clear Action" is supposed to do -- even though it does not seem to work on my M70.
Clear action seems useless on my M60 also (M60, 70, 80 are Sharp panels). It makes the picture very dim, but that's about it. The owners of other sizes report better results.
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post #15377 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 08:55 PM
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I believe it's grayed out when you're sending a 4K signal to the TV. If you set the Oppo to pass-through and let the TV do the up-scaling, it should be available.

No, this was just while watching TV. Only the cable box and Vizio were even powered up. The Denon AVR just passes the signal through it's HDMI train.
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post #15378 of 16407 Old 12-26-2016, 09:44 PM
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I have never tested this at 60Hz (I don't use 30Hz and above at all), but I'm sure you're correct in your findings. I have Clear Action enabled in my Calibrated Dark profile, and there is a subtle, but noticeable difference between on and off (other than the dimming due to BFI, of course). Raven Crimson is a major gamer. That's why CA, especially at 60 and 120 Hz, is very important to him, but it likely also behaves differently on the 2016 P/M Series.

I've said this before, but the 2015 M-series' inherent panel blur, or ghosting/trailing, whatever you want to call it, has always bothered me to the extent that I cannot watch without Reduce Judder at 3. On any of my previous TVs I would disable all motion enhancement features to avoid the soap opera effect (the equivalent of enabling GLL on our M). I find that Clear Action helps reduce this panel blur a little further, in addition to RJ.
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Clear action seems useless on my M60 also (M60, 70, 80 are Sharp panels). It makes the picture very dim, but that's about it. The owners of other sizes report better results.
Ok, now that I understand what Clear Action is supposed to do, I better understand rtings Q&A section, and they observed the same behavior on their M60 used for testing:

From http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/m-series-2015 (in the "Additional Review Notes" section):

"As with the P, the 'Clear Action' feature doesn't work. It only slightly reduces the backlight, without making any visible change to the motion blur. The feature works well on the E."

Then there is a Q&A about the M55:

Q: "Not a question but rather a comment. I own the 55 inch version of this TV and find that the "Clear Action" feature actually does improve motion blur quite dramatically. It does not merely dim the backlight but rather activates a strobing effect. It's distracting in bright rooms but quite tolerable in a light-controlled environment. It has a big impact on video games and deserves to be highlighted."

A: "It's possible that Clear Action works on different sizes. If you don't mind sending us an email with your TV's firmware version, we'd like to investigate this further."



Given I have been confused with this topic for a while, let me try to summarize again my understanding in case it could be helpful to someone else (apologies in advance if this is obvious to everyone here):


* A 60Hz video source without any processing (i.e. GLL On) looks like the picture below (notice the "Ghosting/Trail" issue, there are basically 2 images displayed on top of each other, with a small offset):




* The same video source with GLL Off and Reduce Motion Blur at 10 looks like the picture below (notice the absence of "Ghosting/Trail", as there is only a single image visible):




* In theory, with both GLL On and Clear Action On, the Vizio M should produce the 2nd image, but instead it produces the 1st image (or something very close). The theory is that Clear Action inserts a "black" image between each image displayed, hence making the "trail" disappear when a new image is produced.

The reason this is important for gaming is that "Reduce Motion Blur", which solves the ghosting problem, comes with a much higher input lag, making games feel unresponsive. So, to get a reasonable input lag, "GLL" needs to be enabled, disabling "Reduce Motion Blur" as a side effect. At that point, we have low input lag, but ghosting/trailing. If Clear Action was working properly, it would have eliminated the ghosting/trailing while keeping a low input lag.

As an example of games where this is annoying, imagine a First Person Shooter where the view rotates constantly. If there is a vertical tower with a sky background for example, the tower image is doubled ("Ghosting") as the view rotates. "Clear Action" should have eliminated that effect and it would have looked much nicer. As an experiment, this can be more or less simulated by disabling GLL and setting Reduce Motion Blur to 10 while playing such games (at that point input lag is terrible though).
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post #15379 of 16407 Old 12-27-2016, 10:08 AM
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Okay I got a issue I've been noticing on and off, I watch a lot of the walking dead, And started to notice it in the episode "The cell" where Daryl is trapped, While in a dark scene the screen is suppose to be black like pitch black really, But it has now this strange brown/green/grey color that blooms, It stay's for a few seconds and goes away, I noticed it also in a few other shows being ancient aliens and the movie thor the other night, I checked each hdmi port and it was doing it on each, Also checked my roku box to see if I could mimic it on that and was able to as well, But video games that are dark it does not effect it.. Qustion is what in the hell is going on?
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post #15380 of 16407 Old 12-27-2016, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mannyrue View Post
Okay I got a issue I've been noticing on and off, I watch a lot of the walking dead, And started to notice it in the episode "The cell" where Daryl is trapped, While in a dark scene the screen is suppose to be black like pitch black really, But it has now this strange brown/green/grey color that blooms, It stay's for a few seconds and goes away, I noticed it also in a few other shows being ancient aliens and the movie thor the other night, I checked each hdmi port and it was doing it on each, Also checked my roku box to see if I could mimic it on that and was able to as well, But video games that are dark it does not effect it.. Qustion is what in the hell is going on?
This could very well be due to the all the film grain that TWD adds to their show. It's their style. I remember that episode as being very dark for the most part, but not necessarily pitch black. Most shows' dark scenes aren't. There is usually some amount of slightly brighter pixelation/noise/compression artifacts, whatever you like to call it. This depends on the quality of the broadcast, or the recording/encoding. Nothing wrong with your TV.

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post #15381 of 16407 Old 12-27-2016, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by VBB View Post
This could very well be due to the all the film grain that TWD adds to their show. It's their style. I remember that episode as being very dark for the most part, but not necessarily pitch black. Most shows' dark scenes aren't. There is usually some amount of slightly brighter pixelation/noise/compression artifacts, whatever you like to call it. This depends on the quality of the broadcast, or the recording/encoding. Nothing wrong with your TV.
I have directv if that helps, But yea it like blooms tho at random times, Another example would be that I noticed it was when watching the other night The Dark Knight rises when he is down in the sewer fighting Baine
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post #15382 of 16407 Old 12-27-2016, 05:51 PM
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Unhappy

Turned on my M70-C3 this morning and it has a permanent mostly black horizontal line, about 1/3 up from the bottom (see picture). It's there regardless of what input or source I use.

Bought 18 months ago, Vizio says its likely not repairable ("not economically feasible" I think they said). As it is out of warranty, it doesn't really matter to them.

So since I didn't buy an extended warranty, the TV wound up costing me well over $100 month.

I also had to return a P70 last year due to a flickering issue, so I think I'm done with Vizio, I'm having no luck with their large TVs.

Just passing this along ...

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post #15383 of 16407 Old 12-27-2016, 07:20 PM
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Turned on my M70-C3 this morning and it has a permanent mostly black horizontal line, about 1/3 up from the bottom (see picture). It's there regardless of what input or source I use.

Bought 18 months ago, Vizio says its likely not repairable ("not economically feasible" I think they said). As it is out of warranty, it doesn't really matter to them.

So since I didn't buy an extended warranty, the TV wound up costing me well over $100 month.

I also had to return a P70 last year due to a flickering issue, so I think I'm done with Vizio, I'm having no luck with their large TVs.

Just passing this along ...

That is too bad. Have you tried a factory reset and/or service reset, just in case? I would also unplug it from the outlet for a bit. I take it you didn't buy at Costco?
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post #15384 of 16407 Old 12-27-2016, 09:16 PM
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That is too bad. Have you tried a factory reset and/or service reset, just in case? I would also unplug it from the outlet for a bit. I take it you didn't buy at Costco?
Thanks, I did try the resets, they did not work. I bought it at Best Buy. I usually only buy an extended warranty if it is less than 10% of the purchase price and BB wanted like $350 for it.
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post #15385 of 16407 Old 12-28-2016, 04:16 AM
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Thanks, I did try the resets, they did not work. I bought it at Best Buy. I usually only buy an extended warranty if it is less than 10% of the purchase price and BB wanted like $350 for it.
If I was you, I would tough it out with this set until later next year. It gives you a chance to see what the 2017 TVs bring to the table, read some reviews and user experiences, and allow the normal price drops to show up. I wouldn't totally write off Vizio because their pricing is very attractive for the larger sizes. If you do go back to Vizio, get an extended warranty. That normally ensures the TV won't have any problems for the length of the warranty.
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post #15386 of 16407 Old 12-28-2016, 06:58 AM
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Hey all, just a heads up that I got new HDMI cables and my screen going in and out continues. Now though, something weird. I've decided to just give up on HDMI5, as any Hz the problem keeps happening. on HDMI4 I can watch on 30Hz 4k but it won't let me play back UHD from Amazon, says that it doesn't support HDCP2.2.. Anyway, got fed up, called Vizio and they are sending out new parts and a technician, I am hoping I got a bad batch and it gets fixed.
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post #15387 of 16407 Old 12-28-2016, 01:57 PM
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Hey all, just a heads up that I got new HDMI cables and my screen going in and out continues. Now though, something weird. I've decided to just give up on HDMI5, as any Hz the problem keeps happening. on HDMI4 I can watch on 30Hz 4k but it won't let me play back UHD from Amazon, says that it doesn't support HDCP2.2.. Anyway, got fed up, called Vizio and they are sending out new parts and a technician, I am hoping I got a bad batch and it gets fixed.
Manual says: "HDCP 2.2 supported on HDMI ports 1,2, and 5"

I'm still waiting for the day when every single HDMI port has the same exact specs and features...
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post #15388 of 16407 Old 12-29-2016, 03:26 PM
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Hey, everyone. Newbie here with an issue I just don't know how to resolve.

I have a 2015 Vizio M65-C1. The husband bought me a Samsung UBD-K8500 for Christmas along with a host of 4k movies. The HDMI cable is Rocketfish at 18Gbps. BD and DVD works beautifully. We couldn't be happier. The 4K movies on the other hand...nada.

I did a bit of research. Changed the settings with Picture at Computer on the TV. The player I put everything in Auto. When change the color format to RGB (enhanced) I get a no source on the TV at all and I have to reset the player and start all over.

Oh, and the HDMI cable is plugged into HDMI5.

I went back to Best Buy and bought a Monster cable with 22.5 Gbps. Still no 4k movie capability.

I had read that using one HDMI cable for the main and then another for the audio can solve the problem. The soundbar I currently have does not have a HDMI port. I would like to know if there are other options rather than me buying a soundbar with a HDMI port. That's not even a guarantee I can watch a 4k movie if I did that.

I'm all out of ideas on how to make this work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #15389 of 16407 Old 12-29-2016, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cynatnite View Post
Hey, everyone. Newbie here with an issue I just don't know how to resolve.

I have a 2015 Vizio M65-C1. The husband bought me a Samsung UBD-K8500 for Christmas along with a host of 4k movies. The HDMI cable is Rocketfish at 18Gbps. BD and DVD works beautifully. We couldn't be happier. The 4K movies on the other hand...nada.

I did a bit of research. Changed the settings with Picture at Computer on the TV. The player I put everything in Auto. When change the color format to RGB (enhanced) I get a no source on the TV at all and I have to reset the player and start all over.

Oh, and the HDMI cable is plugged into HDMI5.

I went back to Best Buy and bought a Monster cable with 22.5 Gbps. Still no 4k movie capability.

I had read that using one HDMI cable for the main and then another for the audio can solve the problem. The soundbar I currently have does not have a HDMI port. I would like to know if there are other options rather than me buying a soundbar with a HDMI port. That's not even a guarantee I can watch a 4k movie if I did that.

I'm all out of ideas on how to make this work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'll try to get you a specific link if I get the chance, but search for my username and look at the last few posts I made related to using my M55 for UHD with the K8500. You say "nada" -- that should not be happening. I've now watched a number of UHD movies and lots of BR with no issues. All with HDMI to TV input 5.

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post #15390 of 16407 Old 12-29-2016, 07:45 PM
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I'll try to get you a specific link if I get the chance, but search for my username and look at the last few posts I made related to using my M55 for UHD with the K8500. You say "nada" -- that should not be happening. I've now watched a number of UHD movies and lots of BR with no issues. All with HDMI to TV input 5.
Instead, I should've said "no source". That's what I've been getting every single time we've tried a movie. The husband bought me the Bourne movies on 4K for Christmas along with this player and I'm disappointed we haven't been able to watch. I've read a few of your posts regarding this and tried the settings with no luck. We've watched Netflix 4k movies with no problem with the app on the player.

I've considered upgrading our soundbar with one that has an HDMI input then use both HDMI ports in the back, one to the M65 and the other for audio. I've read a few that tried something similar which worked. I would just hate to spend more money as it is.

I'm just at a loss why this won't work. Either way, the player stays. I do like it a lot.

Thanks for the response.
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