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post #8611 of 10393 Old 09-19-2016, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Herrat123 View Post
It does have WCG but the 8 bit and 60 hz panel isnt good enough. Which other good HDR capabale tv would you recommend in this price range?

If you need to buy now, I would try to get a KS8000/8500 at a good price.


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post #8612 of 10393 Old 09-19-2016, 02:07 AM
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Anyone know of the one remote (the new smart universal 16 remote) will. Work with the ju7100?

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post #8613 of 10393 Old 09-19-2016, 06:07 AM
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I swear there is nothing more confusing than the JU7100's HDR capabilities! Can someone help me get to the bottom of this...

So we know that the JU7100 can interpret HDR metadata. When playing something encoded with HDR the backlight will go all the way up and yadda, yadda, yadda. That has all been established. We've also established that the JU7100 doesn't have a WCG, quantum dot, nor the peak brightness usually found in newer HDR displays.

So if the JU7100 can interpret the HDR metadata but cant actually DISPLAY it - what's the point? Like I am really confused about this. I really just don't get it. If it cant display the billions of colors and brightness and all its doing is bumping up the backlight and contrast then like I said, what's the point? Couldn't this actually be making the PQ worse?

I bought an Xbox One S and a few 4k Blu Rays to really test if I could see HDR being displayed on the TV. Now granted, the movies look great! I really have no complaints, but I am so curious as to whether or not HDR is doing anything at all or if its just the ultra sharp 4k itself. I wish there was a way to toggle HDR on and off just to see the difference. Has anyone figured out a way to see what exactly the HDR is doing on this set? Can anyone confirm that the HDR is actually making PQ improvements?
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post #8614 of 10393 Old 09-19-2016, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jdm127x View Post
I swear there is nothing more confusing than the JU7100's HDR capabilities! Can someone help me get to the bottom of this...

So we know that the JU7100 can interpret HDR metadata. When playing something encoded with HDR the backlight will go all the way up and yadda, yadda, yadda. That has all been established. We've also established that the JU7100 doesn't have a WCG, quantum dot, nor the peak brightness usually found in newer HDR displays.

So if the JU7100 can interpret the HDR metadata but cant actually DISPLAY it - what's the point? Like I am really confused about this. I really just don't get it. If it cant display the billions of colors and brightness and all its doing is bumping up the backlight and contrast then like I said, what's the point? Couldn't this actually be making the PQ worse?

I bought an Xbox One S and a few 4k Blu Rays to really test if I could see HDR being displayed on the TV. Now granted, the movies look great! I really have no complaints, but I am so curious as to whether or not HDR is doing anything at all or if its just the ultra sharp 4k itself. I wish there was a way to toggle HDR on and off just to see the difference. Has anyone figured out a way to see what exactly the HDR is doing on this set? Can anyone confirm that the HDR is actually making PQ improvements?

As you mentioned, it is quite confusing! I know the TV doesn't have a Quantum Display, but I can assure that HDR on it does make a HUGE DIFFERENCE. HDR content looks very colorful and bright compared to regular content on the TV.

There's a chart online showing the HDR capabilities of different TV's. Each TV has a stronger HDR capability compared to others. So yes, a 10-bit quantum screen will definitively look better than a JU7100..

But that also depends on the size. If is just a 50 inch or so, it will be hard to tell any differences, the gap gets wider once you get into big screens (70 inches and up) My TV is 75 and I love the way it looks. I am sure a 75 Quantum will stomp mine, but I am very satisfy with the colors of this TV.
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post #8615 of 10393 Old 09-19-2016, 10:43 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...-patterns.html

All these HDR10 Patterns work just fine on the UN75JU7100.

The HDR Mode comes up when patterns applied, and the 2 Point Gains and Offsets can be calibrated. (30 and 100%)
CMS and 10 Point CAN NOT!
CMS HDR10 Patterns can be shown to get readings to give an idea how they align up. Nothing you can do to calibrate them. You're at Samsung's mercy as to what settings they install in the Advance Menu of the ASM.
Currently, I heard rumored that Calman may have a method, in the future to handle this?

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post #8616 of 10393 Old 09-19-2016, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jdm127x View Post
........ I wish there was a way to toggle HDR on and off just to see the difference. Has anyone figured out a way to see what exactly the HDR is doing on this set? Can anyone confirm that the HDR is actually making PQ improvements?
Yes. I can pick Amazon Ultra (HDR) or just the 4K version of a couple of shows. The HDR version certainly changes the settings while it is playing. If I make a few other adjustments including upping the Gamma there are scenes particularly outdoors where I can see the difference. Even some inside scenes in the Show Red Oaks look better. HDR isn't an exact science I don't think going by another thread here that talks about what it needed to get the benefits of HDR. The problem is there is so little 4K to watch in everyday TV, and even less HDR.
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post #8617 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 01:28 AM
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And what about The "Cinema Black" option in the JS Mod? Works better for movies with subtitles and Smart led on Standard? If so, maybe I can think about a new service remote control
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post #8618 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 03:16 PM
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And what about The "Cinema Black" option in the JS Mod? Works better for movies with subtitles and Smart led on Standard? If so, maybe I can think about a new service remote control
I was trying to do the JS MOD on this TV but the SW MODEL part you are suppose to change is missing from my TV. It seems Samsung updated their service menu though their latest updates!

Anyone???
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post #8619 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 05:37 PM
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I'm on 1460 nothing has changed as far as doing the JS mod. Are you sure you are in the advanced menu?
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post #8620 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 06:35 PM
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I'm on 1460 nothing has changed as far as doing the JS mod. Are you sure you are in the advanced menu?
I been trying with the standard remote control INFO,MENU,MUTE, STANDBY secuence buttons... And I release there's is not possible to choose JS Mod over there into Service menu.... Then maybe with the service remote control its possible choose the advance menu... I don't know but at the moment I'm really curious about "cinema black" improvements on movies...
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post #8621 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 06:43 PM
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Can't be done with the standard remote.
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post #8622 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 07:23 PM
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Ok.... Thanks...
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post #8623 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 08:33 PM
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I'm on 1460 nothing has changed as far as doing the JS mod. Are you sure you are in the advanced menu?

Yes I am. However I am on version 1462.

Does this make a difference?

I seen pictures around the web and it looks different than my service menu.
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post #8624 of 10393 Old 09-20-2016, 11:20 PM
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Hello guys. I need some advice here. Im looking to buy a new tv. Ive narrowed down my choice to these two models:

1) JU7100
2) KU7000

I know the JU7100 has local dimming and has a 120hz 10 bit panel whereas the KU7000 is a newer model with WCG but with an 8 bit 60hz panel. I dont care if the KU7000 has an 8 bit panel if it gives me a better HDR. I hope you guys are understanding what im trying to saying. I dont want to go into the specs. I want to know about the actual results which the tv will give me.

Keeping these things in mind, which model will you guys recommend me to buy?
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post #8625 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 07:22 AM
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Interesting Observations

I decided last night to take the JS Mod off of my 55JU7100 to see what a calibration with the current firmware sans JS Mod would look like. Hindsight/foresight I should have plugged the settings with the JS Mod in and make a baseline comparison with and without, but oh well I can do that another time.

What is interesting is that I needed a Gamma setting of -1 with the JS Mod to move the lower end of the Gamma curve closer to the suggested BT 1886 2.4 curve. However, without the JS Mod, I now have basically the same curve with the Gamma at 0. If you were to compare the two Gamma curves (with and without JS Mod), you would agree they are very similar.

Visually speaking, there is a definite improvement in Blacks with the JS Mod and Gamma at -1 when compared to this calibration without the JS Mod. There is virtually no difference in the Color Space with or without the JS Mod.

The above is after one decent calibration. I have room to move the 2 point Offsets to adjust the Gamma curve as needed and I will play around a bit to see if the same Blacks can be achieved as with the JS Mod. I will not dispute that it is possible to achieve similar Blacks with adjustments to the White Balance. But, the JS Mod is definitely doing "something" to the picture that at the moment I can't verbally explain.
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post #8626 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:03 AM
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For lack of a better a way to describe it the JS Mod to me gives a little more "richness" to the picture. That easily could be the better blacks. I have not gone back and forth with each new software update mostly because at this point with your settings and JS mod the picture is so good but there was no mistaking the better PQ. After being away for several weeks I did go back so I could update the Apps, which as I suspected only two even had updates. I also of course updated the software. Since everything is looking and working so well I'm just not worried about the very occasional updates that I might miss with an App. If it works then do I really need the update, much like with Android much of the time probably not.
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post #8627 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:06 AM
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I would love to try the js mod, but the risk and warranty void are a no go for me. Sad that there is no other "correct" way. Because if the TV can display a better picture, why is samsung not jumping on this.

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post #8628 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:06 AM
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Yes I am. However I am on version 1462.

Does this make a difference?

I seen pictures around the web and it looks different than my service menu.
Where did you get 1462 - was a normal download from TV itself? In any case no very unlikely anything would change. Sounds like you are not using the Service remote or actually getting into the advanced service menu. If you are no familiar with making changes there it may be better to leave well enough alone?
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post #8629 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Herrat123 View Post
Hello guys. I need some advice here. Im looking to buy a new tv. Ive narrowed down my choice to these two models:

1) JU7100
2) KU7000

I know the JU7100 has local dimming and has a 120hz 10 bit panel whereas the KU7000 is a newer model with WCG but with an 8 bit 60hz panel. I dont care if the KU7000 has an 8 bit panel if it gives me a better HDR. I hope you guys are understanding what im trying to saying. I dont want to go into the specs. I want to know about the actual results which the tv will give me.

Keeping these things in mind, which model will you guys recommend me to buy?
Sounds like you are comparing a technically advanced new set to a higher model older set without WCG though. Can you afford to buy the new set in the same class the 7100 is in?
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post #8630 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:14 AM
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Sounds like you are comparing a technically advanced new set to a higher model older set without WCG though. Can you afford to buy the new set in the same class the 7100 is in?
The ku7000 is cheaper here in Holland than the ju7100.

It's 60hz edge led, so the thing it gains is wcg. All the rest is below the ju7000.

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post #8631 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:40 AM
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Sounds like you are comparing a technically advanced new set to a higher model older set without WCG though. Can you afford to buy the new set in the same class the 7100 is in?
Here the 50" JU7100 and KU7000 are roughly the same price that converts to almost $1000 and this is my price range. The KS8000 is the next model up but that costs almost $1800 here which is out of my range. So I have to decide between these two models.

I went to one of the local retailers here and compared the two models. They were almost identical. The Ju7000 had a little better blacks whereas the Ku7000 had better colours. There wasnt a vast difference in the two so I guess I should go with the newer Ku7000.

Im buying it mainly for games so the 60hz panel doesnt bother me. The only thing that is bothering me is the 2% peak brightness with is only 150 nits. Will I notice this in my day to day gaming? Is there any condition where the low 2% peak brightness will show itself? I mean is this just a test number or will this really affect the HDR quality because the other peak brightness levels on the Ju7100 and the Ku7000 are roughly the same.
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post #8632 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:45 AM
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Sounds like you are comparing a technically advanced new set to a higher model older set without WCG though. Can you afford to buy the new set in the same class the 7100 is in?
I mean do the night time scenes with a bright moon or a flame torch come in the 2% peak brightness level category or is it just a scenario that never really happens in movies and games? I hope Ive made myself understood.
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post #8633 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 08:46 AM
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Here the 50" JU7100 and KU7000 are roughly the same price that converts to almost $1000 and this is my price range. The KS8000 is the next model up but that costs almost $1800 here which is out of my range. So I have to decide between these two models.

I went to one of the local retailers here and compared the two models. They were almost identical. The Ju7000 had a little better blacks whereas the Ku7000 had better colours. There wasnt a vast difference in the two so I guess I should go with the newer Ku7000.

Im buying it mainly for games so the 60hz panel doesnt bother me. The only thing that is bothering me is the 2% peak brightness with is only 150 nits. Will I notice this in my day to day gaming? Is there any condition where the low 2% peak brightness will show itself? I mean is this just a test number or will this really affect the HDR quality because the other peak brightness levels on the Ju7100 and the Ku7000 are roughly the same.
If you buy it mainly for games the 60hz will bother you a lot. It has a lot less motion handling so if the game is 60fps it's maxing its capabilities. For me 60hz was a no go because of gaming.

In Holland we also have the ks7000. Maybe that's an option?

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post #8634 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 09:09 AM
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I'm really curious about the JS Mod PQ and black levels and how it could be improved on my UE40JU7000,.. Later I will see a friend of mine with an smartphone that maybe has an IR sensor,.. if he's not I'm afraid I will have to buy a Service Remote control to try it and see black levels differences between the JU7000 and JS9000 especially how the "Cinema Black" can be better...

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If you buy it mainly for games the 60hz will bother you a lot. It has a lot less motion handling so if the game is 60fps it's maxing its capabilities. For me 60hz was a no go because of gaming.

In Holland we also have the ks7000. Maybe that's an option?

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We have the Ku7000 here. Not the Ks7000
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post #8636 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 09:46 AM
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We have the Ku7000 here. Not the Ks7000
Ku = K series Ultra HD
KS= Kseries suhd

It's available worldwide?

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post #8637 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 10:09 AM
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Here the 50" JU7100 and KU7000 are roughly the same price that converts to almost $1000 and this is my price range. The KS8000 is the next model up but that costs almost $1800 here which is out of my range. So I have to decide between these two models.

I went to one of the local retailers here and compared the two models. They were almost identical. The Ju7000 had a little better blacks whereas the Ku7000 had better colours. There wasnt a vast difference in the two so I guess I should go with the newer Ku7000.

Im buying it mainly for games so the 60hz panel doesnt bother me. The only thing that is bothering me is the 2% peak brightness with is only 150 nits. Will I notice this in my day to day gaming? Is there any condition where the low 2% peak brightness will show itself? I mean is this just a test number or will this really affect the HDR quality because the other peak brightness levels on the Ju7100 and the Ku7000 are roughly the same.
That's why I mentioned can you afford the higher model, I think you will see a difference for gaming. I am not a gamer but I have see many posts praising the JU7100 for that purpose. I would say without having seen it the newer model will do HDR better but my how much I don't know. Yes the added ability with WCG could make a difference. The 7100 is an overall better TV however it appears for other things. I can not in any way say which is better especially never seeing and comparing the models. But if gaming is a very important thing the 7100 should be better for that. I would also say and there are posts here saying the same, I feel the picture of the 7100 especially with the great calibrations given by people here is as good or better than the higher priced models of the same year. HDR may not be as good but the overall picture is at a much less cost. It's like buying a car, you can get a new model year car with less options but some new technology for around the same price as a leftover that has more options but not that new technology. If you want new and all the options in the new car it's going to cost you more.
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post #8638 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jdm127x View Post
I swear there is nothing more confusing than the JU7100's HDR capabilities! Can someone help me get to the bottom of this...

So we know that the JU7100 can interpret HDR metadata. When playing something encoded with HDR the backlight will go all the way up and yadda, yadda, yadda. That has all been established. We've also established that the JU7100 doesn't have a WCG, quantum dot, nor the peak brightness usually found in newer HDR displays.

So if the JU7100 can interpret the HDR metadata but cant actually DISPLAY it - what's the point? Like I am really confused about this. I really just don't get it. If it cant display the billions of colors and brightness and all its doing is bumping up the backlight and contrast then like I said, what's the point? Couldn't this actually be making the PQ worse?

I bought an Xbox One S and a few 4k Blu Rays to really test if I could see HDR being displayed on the TV. Now granted, the movies look great! I really have no complaints, but I am so curious as to whether or not HDR is doing anything at all or if its just the ultra sharp 4k itself. I wish there was a way to toggle HDR on and off just to see the difference. Has anyone figured out a way to see what exactly the HDR is doing on this set? Can anyone confirm that the HDR is actually making PQ improvements?
I feel your pain on this. I bought this TV in July when my wife approved my 75 inch TV purchase (still boggles my mind how she allowed me to do this lol). I worked quickly before she changed her mind. :P I went and looked at them, I researched them and I spent $3300 on the thing I thought looked best at the time. Of course I could tell the SUHD TVs looked better but at this size I couldn't afford to step up any higher so I bit the bullet and have been enjoying it ever since.

Then that PS4 Pro event happened. lol Everyone started talking about HDR and suddenly I was starting to understand what it was. I figured I was all good since I had remembered reading a post here that we were supposed to get it via an update. Being an idiot I just figured it was no big deal and we could get it in software. After following this thread for several months it's quite obvious that this TV doesn't fully support HDR content. Yea, they released an update that will allow it to interpret HDR footage and skew some settings to give it a "similar" feel. But it's not the thing everyone is hyped about. I feel a little bit of buyers remorse, I'm not gonna lie. It will be a while before I'll be approved again for another expensive TV purchase. Haha. I could have easily had a 65 inch SUHD TV for less money but I really wanted a 75 inch screen.

So anyway... I've been thinking about it and wondering how fake or half baked HDR would look and feel on the 7100. I've been considering upgrading to the PS4 Pro as I play a lot of games there. I've not run any mods nor do I have a set top box that supports 4K or HDR. I've been watching 4K content on Amazon, Netflix and YouTube but none of it currently supports HDR. So I did a little not so scientific test. Haha.

Again... I'm not expert but I saw that Sony had a HDR 4K demo available for download (Thanks to someone who linked me to this site here. Sadly can't remember what the site was now). I had seen it previously on YouTube in 4K but it wasn't pulling an HDR signal of course. So I downloaded the movie file and put it on a data drive. Then I watched the HDR clip and the YouTube clip back to back. Yes, I realize they aren't going to be perfect because they are from different sources by stick with me. :P

I noted the settings when watching the HDR clip on the jump drive. Yes, the backlight jumps to 20 and the contrast maxes out. But the detailed color settings info I inputted into the TV remained. The YouTube clip was much less vibrant as expected. But it was using my old, standard settings. What if I just maxed out the contrast and backlight for the YouTube clip? Then everything could have this fake HDR look! lol I tried it and the colors looked washed out compared to the saturated and rich colors of the file with HDR on. It was clear to me that when the TV is pulling an HDR signal it's doing... something... to make the image look remarkably better. It was night and day.

So while this might not be "true" HDR the results were still pretty damn impressive. It's pulling in new color info that it didn't seem to have before. I also noticed that when playing that HDR clip a setting popped up in the picture menu for "UHD Color." It's not available when I watch 4K in Netflix (and anywhere else for that matter). It only appeared when watching the HDR signal. So while this isn't perfect it does give me some hope that HDR content will look pretty good on our expensive investments regardless of the fact that it's not full HDR 10.

I am still curious about a couple things tho...

1. Game Mode - Will HDR work with game mode enabled? I found a site with people who have our TV and the Xbox One S and they say it does as long as you set the Xbox to UHD Color.

2. When the TV is pulling an HDR signal the image does look really gorgeous. But how will this feel for an entire episode of a TV show or other content? Will the image feel too bright? Will I be burning my retinas out watching this thing like it's in torch mode?! I need to see more HDR content to really know, I guess.

Anyway... just saw your struggle and wanted to let you know your'e not alone. It's kind of rushed my decision on the TV and while I like it I don't think it's perfect. Hope this helps.
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Last edited by rynozebz; 09-21-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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post #8639 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 10:39 AM
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Where did you get 1462 - was a normal download from TV itself? In any case no very unlikely anything would change. Sounds like you are not using the Service remote or actually getting into the advanced service menu. If you are no familiar with making changes there it may be better to leave well enough alone?
Haha

I am actually tech-savvy when it comes to this!

The FW was downloaded by itself by Samsung. (Correction, I have 1461.2 FW)

I been following the directions to a T.. And the main menu or even advanced settings look different than my. For example, I don't have WIFI Vendor information or as I mentioned SW Model.

I only have TV type which has millions of panels to choose from and this is not the correct instruction!

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post #8640 of 10393 Old 09-21-2016, 10:43 AM
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I feel your pain on this. I bought this TV in July when my wife approved my 75 inch TV purchase (still boggles my mind how she allowed me to do this lol). I worked quickly before she changed her mind. :P I went and looked at them, I researched them and I spent $3300 on the thing I thought looked best at the time. Of course I could tell the SUHD TVs looked better but at this size I couldn't afford to step up any higher so I bit the bullet and have been enjoying it ever since.

Then that PS4 Pro event happened. lol Everyone started talking about HDR and suddenly I was starting to understand what it was. I figured I was all good since I had remembered reading a post here that we were supposed to get it via an update. Being an idiot I just figured it was no big deal and we could get it in software. After following this thread for several months it's quite obvious that this TV doesn't fully support HDR content. Yea, they released an update that will allow it to interpret HDR footage and skew some settings to give it a "similar" feel. But it's not the thing everyone is hyped about. I feel a little bit of buyers remorse, I'm not gonna lie. It will be a while before I'll be approved again for another expensive TV purchase. Haha. I could have easily had a 65 inch SUHD TV for less money but I really wanted a 75 inch screen.

So anyway... I've been thinking about it and wondering how fake or half baked HDR would look and feel on the 7100. I've been considering upgrading to the PS4 Pro as I play a lot of games there. I've not run any mods nor do I have a set top box that supports 4K or HDR. I've been watching 4K content on Amazon, Netflix and YouTube but none of it currently supports HDR. So I did a little not so scientific test. Haha.

Again... I'm not expert but I saw that Sony had a HDR 4K demo available for download (Thanks to someone who linked me to this site here. Sadly can't remember what the site was now). I had seen it previously on YouTube in 4K but it wasn't pulling an HDR signal of course. So I downloaded the movie file and put it on a data drive. Then I watched the HDR clip and the YouTube clip back to back. Yes, I realize they aren't going to be perfect because they are from different sources by stick with me. :P

I noted the settings when watching the HDR clip on the jump drive. Yes, the backlight jumps to 20 and the contrast maxes out. But the detailed color settings info I inputted into the TV remained. The YouTube clip was much less vibrant as expected. But it was using my old, standard settings. What if I just maxed out the contrast and backlight for the YouTube clip? Then everything could have this fake HDR look! lol I tried it and the colors looked washed out compared to the saturated and rich colors of the file with HDR on. It was clear to me that when the TV is pulling an HDR signal it's doing... something... to make the image look remarkably better. It was night and day.

So while this might not be "true" HDR the results were still pretty damn impressive. It's pulling in new color info that it didn't seem to have before. I also noticed that when playing that HDR clip a setting popped up in the picture menu for "UHD Color." It's not available when I watch 4K in Netflix (and anywhere else for that matter). It only appeared when watching the HDR signal. So while this isn't perfect it does give me some hope that HDR content will look pretty good on our expensive investments regardless of the fact that it's not full HDR 10.

I am still curious about a couple things tho...

1. Game Mode - Will HDR work with game mode enabled? I found a site with people who have our TV and the Xbox One S and they say it does as long as you set the Xbox to UHD Color.

2. When the TV is pulling an HDR signal the image does look really gorgeous. But how will this feel for an entire episode of a TV show or other content? Will the image feel too bright? Will I be burning my retinas out watching this thing like it's in torch mode?! I need to see more HDR content to really know, I guess.

Anyway... just saw your struggle and wanted to let you know your'e not alone. It's kind of rushed my decision on the TV and while I like it I don't think it's perfect. Hope this helps.

hehe, your story sounds similar to my.

Yes, Xbox one S does read HDR even with GAME MODE ON. You check out Netflix HDR titles and it still reads it even if you have Game Mode on! And keep in mind that when regular content plays, the back-light and brightness settings change. It shouldn't;t be bright at all unless you have it on DYNAMIC mode which is not recommended at all!
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