Samsung JS9500 owners thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wicklow View Post
Yes, totally agree with you on this. I am in the market so to speak for a new display. If I were not or could wait, then I would at least try to wait and see what the HDR oleds will look like should they materialize (and HDR implementation as a whole for that matter). The problem there is that the oled rollout has been so achingly slow (and hugely expensive) that it could be another year or more before we actually see them (Oled +HDR) in a store. If not HDR Oled then it will be a different led LCD with HDR. I am thinking of this display as a worthy stop gap measure in the meantime. My f8500 is a superb display (it is is just so damn consistently excellent) and I would be very hard pressed to trade it for anything out there today bar the 4k oleds.
I hear you. I watched the imitation game (excellent movie) on my vt60 streaming from ITunes yesterday, and it was stunning, amazing color, and completely cinematic. Why do I want a JS 9500? What's wrong with me? Is there a medication I can take? If I do get it I'll probably save the vt for a rainy day.
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post #512 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 07:44 AM
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Na I see it as if you buy a TV now that is able to do UHD phase 1 your going to be in pretty good shape until 2020+
No way. There are guys here who took that view last year and are buying new 4k's this year also. Some buying for their third year in a row. Next year there will be some other new trinket that can't go in a one connect and marketed as must have. Same guys will do what? No company will allow the cutting edge first adopters to lose their status and sit on a tv, huddled within a 20 degree angle, for 5 years.
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post #513 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 09:24 AM
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No way. There are guys here who took that view last year and are buying new 4k's this year also. Some buying for their third year in a row. Next year there will be some other new trinket that can't go in a one connect and marketed as must have. Same guys will do what? No company will allow the cutting edge first adopters to lose their status and sit on a tv, huddled within a 20 degree angle, for 5 years.
Well if you have a working TV, I don't see why you would want to rush out and get a new one. My Vizio M501 55" died, bad panel, and instead of a getting another cheap TV, I decided to get the JS9000, I think the additional color will help even if it's not rec2020. I also like the controller and other application features. So for me, I'm concerned about 75% for picture quality and 25% for additional features (controller, sound, apps, etc.). Sadly the viewing angle is pretty bad, but hopefully the wall mount will help with adjustments when needed. I also plan on getting a 4K projector later down the road once the prices come down and most of the standards are ironed out.

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post #514 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 09:37 AM
 
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The German site that is comparing the OLED vs SUHD has released a second part. LOL. They release one part every few days I think. Hard to understand the review using just the Google translate, but they are saying the OLED has better blacks even in a room with ambient light. Also, they measured full screen brightness for the OLED at 130/380 peak vs SUHD at 400/880 peak. They do not believe the current OLEDs will be capable of processing HDR. Also, larger difference in color representation than they expected. I believe in the SUHDs favor. It also looks like those advantages quickly vanish off angle. Interesting read until we can get them in the UK or VE shootout, which most here seem to hold as the gold standard.




http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&prev=search
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post #515 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 09:47 AM
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^ And my gut still tells me that the difference and advantage in OLED black levels, in both bright & dark rooms, will be more important for the vast majority of material than the ability to closer replicate the HDR signal that will show up occasionally.

Others may feel differently, but I'll still go with what we've always been told is the most important PQ parameter, black levels.
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post #516 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 10:07 AM
 
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^ And my gut still tells me that the difference and advantage in OLED black levels, in both bright & dark rooms, will be more important for the vast majority of material than the ability to closer replicate the HDR signal that will show up occasionally.

Others may feel differently, but I'll still go with what we've always been told is the most important PQ parameter, black levels.
In the end, I think it is going to come down to price and your viewing environment.

You need large viewing angles, do most of viewing in a dark room, need the deepest blacks, watch mostly movies and TV and have deep pockets than OLED.

You need fast motion, like bright HDR pictures, do you viewing in bright rooms, use your display for gaming, and have budget limitations than WHF (WCG/HDR/FALD)

In terms of pure performance the OLED may be superior, but for the mass consumer they are going to see them closely matched or in the WHF favor with the bright demos. Also, WHF should quickly drop in price that OLED simply can not match.
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post #517 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
^ And my gut still tells me that the difference and advantage in OLED black levels, in both bright & dark rooms, will be more important for the vast majority of material than the ability to closer replicate the HDR signal that will show up occasionally.

Others may feel differently, but I'll still go with what we've always been told is the most important PQ parameter, black levels.

Can't really tell without knowing relative importance and relative level of superiority (% better than another display) for each factor. A minor level of superiority for an important factor (e.g., blacks) can be of less value than a major level of superiority for a less significant factor.

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post #518 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 10:44 AM
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I think it is good that the SUHD's are keeping up with and even exceeding OLED in some ways. Considering some of the price differences on some of the SUHD's VS OLED's it bodes well for the Samsung to have a good performance VS price ratio.

Sure I'd love to have a TV with OLED blacks but do I want to pay thousands more for it and maybe not get as good brightness or other color performance out of an OLED VS the SUHD line?
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post #519 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 11:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
^ And my gut still tells me that the difference and advantage in OLED black levels, in both bright & dark rooms, will be more important for the vast majority of material than the ability to closer replicate the HDR signal that will show up occasionally.

Others may feel differently, but I'll still go with what we've always been told is the most important PQ parameter, black levels.
yes blacks are very important to overall pQ better Blks in most cases lead to better colours except in this case JS9500 has a higher colour gamut DCI P3. OLed also has blk crush due to the infinte blk it provides and of course Oled cant get nearly as bright yet. So yes Oled will have better Blks but is 15% better blks worth the less colours and lack of HDR I think it's not ...Now OLed that could get as bright with HDR would be a killer tho
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post #520 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 01:02 PM
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I think the point is, you get better actual PQ with content that you'll start watching today and for the next few years whilst with any other set that promises to only provide better PQ when HDR content comes out, you have to actually wait on the content. Realistically if they release a few HDR blus by end of this year that they are targeting, you are looking at only a small handful for availability in 2016 - just like with 3D. So if you want to spend 5-6k to maybe enjoy a couple of HDR blus in a year or two before you go spend another couple of k to go buy a TV that can handle true HDR with rec2020, then that's your call. But you better be happy with the playback of regular old Rec709 in the meantime. OLED has more color than rec709 and pretty good assurances of providing more than SDR when HDR comes out with the 'scalability' they've been talking and hinting about.

Both are extremely expensive and are sets for people that don't mind paying for them. If you think paying the 5-6k is worth it because you are assured of being future proof, I think you'll do better not buying a set for 1-2 years or at least till the first set of HDR blues hit the market, or if must buy now, go get a 1000$ tv that still plays rec709 very well and pay the 5-6k for the TV that will actually play HDR content that is actually out on the market and you can verify is actually good at displaying that content.
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post #521 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 01:05 PM
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"what ive always been told"

yea, and they told us the world was flat too. id rather have my own opinion on what I like, not what im told im supposed to like.

you know what i DO like? playing 35% less for a product that performs relatively the same!

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post #522 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 01:13 PM
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with that said, its now rumored that samsung is gonna get back into the OLED tech, so after telling people at CES that SUHD is better than OLED(which i think is definitely pushing it), now they wanna get back on the train. so the question is, if samsung jumps back into oled, does that drive down the price of their LED tvs? will they abandon the FALD LED?

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post #523 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 01:39 PM
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Its really a big mess. Its still funny that a year ago the industry was saying that for true HDR you would need OLED technology, and then all of a sudden there were couple of LCD's demoed that had HDR.
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post #524 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 02:13 PM
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I'm setting back and enjoying the ride with my P70 that is $4000 less and has great black levels. No HDR but wait there is no HDR content to watch. OK I feel better.
The point is next year or the year after there will be TVs with 12bit panels that have Full HDR with Rec.2020.

I just wouldn't fall for the next big thing. That a company says it has but can not be used for years to come. And by that time there will be something better..
Yes if a new 2015 P series was released with HDR this year. I would buy it. And still keep my P70 and only have $4000 to $4500 into to 70in TVs.
My opinion but a wouldn't take back my P70 for a 65js9500 and pay $4000 more. When I have great black levels and color after I calibrated the set.

I'm not a Vizio fan boy. My set of choice that I've own over the year was high end Samsung and Sony sets and not to leave my RIP Sharp Elite out.

Truth be told there using good business practices to get use to want to upgrade every year at this time because things really aren't set in stone for things like HDR ect. But we, they need to keep sales up.

Think of this you can bring your friends over and say yeah this set can do HDR and friend say cool show me. Your reply will there's nothing out there yet but it will be cool when it comes. Then it comes and your great TV that was new two years ago can't fully support the new HDR. Food for thought.

In the end get what you will enjoy

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post #525 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 03:22 PM
 
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Realistically if they release a few HDR blus by end of this year that they are targeting, you are looking at only a small handful for availability in 2016 - just like with 3D. So if you want to spend 5-6k to maybe enjoy a couple of HDR blus in a year or two before you go spend another couple of k to go buy a TV that can handle true HDR with rec2020, then that's your call.

This is the second time I have read about the potential lack of HDR material with UHD Blu-ray. Am I reading this wrong or is the SMPTE version of HDR mandatory for all U-ray releases. With the Dolby Vision or Technicolor HDR method being optional. As stated in footnote (1).

In other words, every single U-ray release will have at least SMPTE ST 2084 HDR.

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post #526 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 03:23 PM
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people keep saying it's OLED vs SUHD which is wrong
we are talking about OLED vs SUHD FALD. edge dimming SUHD will be crushed if we compare it to OLED. SUHD FALD is not cheap either and is almost comparable to LG OLED (street price)
Personally I'd go OLED
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post #527 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 03:28 PM
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people keep saying it's OLED vs SUHD which is wrong
we are talking about OLED vs SUHD FALD. edge dimming SUHD will be crushed if we compare it to OLED. SUHD FALD is not cheap either and is almost comparable to LG OLED (street price)
Personally I'd go OLED
In the 65inch size the price is 6000 vs 9000. I'd say that's a big difference.
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post #528 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 03:51 PM
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WCG/HDR/FALD
you have been using specs many times.

FALD is only good if is well implemented ,I dont think that HDR is going to be present on every movie or all the time ,also it may look good or bad.

Specs have been specially use to capture peoples eyes ,china black market products are full of specs too




we have to be careful about specs and focus on how they perform also be very careful about gimmicks.
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post #529 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 03:53 PM
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This is the second time I have read about the potential lack of HDR material with UHD Blu-ray. Am I reading this wrong or is the SMPTE version of HDR mandatory for all U-ray releases. With the Dolby Vision or Technicolor HDR method being optional. As stated in footnote (1).

In other words, every single U-ray release will have at least SMPTE ST 2084 HDR.

Sytech, the only info I've seen said that it would be mandatory starting around 2018 (edit: this could be from the filming side of the equation for new releases to cinemas). Could you imagine it becoming mandatory within a year? I don't think they have the infrastructure in place - they don't even have a standard in place. With the way these dates tend to slip I would guess it would be mandatory in 2018 at the earliest. If it is mandatory before then, I can only imagine an extremely limited amount of releases. Remember when Avatar was one of a handful of 3D blurays available the first two years? So maybe its mandatory, but the Uray releases won't really be ubiquitous for a few years.

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post #530 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:02 PM
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people keep saying it's OLED vs SUHD which is wrong
we are talking about OLED vs SUHD FALD. edge dimming SUHD will be crushed if we compare it to OLED. SUHD FALD is not cheap either and is almost comparable to LG OLED (street price)
Personally I'd go OLED

If it was just sdr, I would pay the extra 50% or so for old 65. (But Not 77 yet.) Oled Black noticable even with non darkened room, and yes its most important, but there is more than just one thing that defines pq. It's not that simple.


There's more benefit to hdr than is being discussed. Not dramatic, can easily see someone choosing old even after seeing good hdr (that's not in vivid mode with back light and contrast jacked up full.)

Best regards, dave
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post #531 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:09 PM
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The increase in PQ that's coming is acknowledged to be pretty weak if you only consider each element on their own: resolution, more color, HDR, HFR, object based sound. However, you throw a good mix of all that together, and you definitely are going to get something with more WOW factor than we have now (i'm still not sure on HFR, but who knows). I'm going to wait for a set that actually has the mix, rather than an ingredient or two, unless that set gives me WOW now for my current library.
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post #532 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:10 PM
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In the end, I think it is going to come down to price and your viewing environment.

You need large viewing angles, do most of viewing in a dark room, need the deepest blacks, watch mostly movies and TV and have deep pockets than OLED.

You need fast motion, like bright HDR pictures, do you viewing in bright rooms, use your display for gaming, and have budget limitations than WHF (WCG/HDR/FALD)

In terms of pure performance the OLED may be superior, but for the mass consumer they are going to see them closely matched or in the WHF favor with the bright demos. Also, WHF shou
ld quickly drop in price that OLED simply can not match.
I'm with you on this one.My biggest problem with everyone is that right now with the small pics to compare you can obviously tell that the 9500 looks better than the Oled. The Oled pic looks dull compared to the 9500.There is no need to talk about HDR when the 9500 looks better with out HDR.Give my a little less contrast and better colors plus cleaner whites any day of the year plus $3000.00 cheaper please not even close.I would hate to see HDR implemented right what it would do to this comparison.Please Oled lovers come back with something better than the old 709
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post #533 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:19 PM
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I'm with you on this one.My biggest problem with everyone is that right now with the small pics to compare you can obviously tell that the 9500 looks better than the Oled. The Oled pic looks dull compared to the 9500.There is no need to talk about HDR when the 9500 looks better with out HDR.Give my a little less contrast and better colors plus cleaner whites any day of the year plus $3000.00 cheaper please not even close.I would hate to see HDR implemented right what it would do to this comparison.Please Oled lovers come back with something better than the old 709
Please post some pics of your new TV showing off the 'better colors' once you buy it. Sounds like you are ready to place your order
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post #534 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:27 PM
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Please post some pics of your new TV showing off the 'better colors' once you buy it. Sounds like you are ready to place your order
My friend I have had the tv for 2 weeks now.Im very happy with my choice and now that I'm looking at the comparisons which not only I can see but the reviewers are making comments about.I have been wowed since I got it but I'm reading a lot of hate for this model which 99% of the people don't have.Now that I see the comparisons it makes it that more enjoyable about the choice that I made
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post #535 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:45 PM
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And since you are wowed by the actual picture it presents to you today it makes sense to be happy with it...right? that's been the point all along - the oled stuff only comes into play when you speculate about what HDR is or isn't

If you don't mind me asking, where did you purchase yours from?
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post #536 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:48 PM
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And since you are wowed by the actual picture it presents to you today it makes sense to be happy with it...right? that's been the point all along - the oled stuff only comes into play when you speculate about what HDR is or isn't

If you don't mind me asking, where did you purchase yours from?
Avad in Florida
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post #537 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:55 PM
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Spent some time at best buy today with last year's 1080p oled. They were showing the 3d demo. I have to admit, it was a little disappointing. Yes the blacks were good. But the picture didn't have the pop that samsungs have. Also the 1080p screen was super obvious, after spending so much time with 4k the 1080p screen just looks so..old school? The detail in the picture was just not there like it is on the samsung or even sony 4ks. I'm sure the 4k Oleds will look much better.
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post #538 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 04:55 PM
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The increase in PQ that's coming is acknowledged to be pretty weak if you only consider each element on their own: resolution, more color, HDR, HFR, object based sound. However, you throw a good mix of all that together, and you definitely are going to get something with more WOW factor than we have now (i'm still not sure on HFR, but who knows). I'm going to wait for a set that actually has the mix, rather than an ingredient or two, unless that set gives me WOW now for my current library.

That's a good way to put it.

In terms of current library, great question. interested myself. Not sold yet on "hdr guesstimate" and color expansion that one of reviewers said that put together, made him want to rewatch his whole library. I'll try it, but expect that personaly i will pass.


best regards, dave.
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post #539 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 06:20 PM
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with that said, its now rumored that samsung is gonna get back into the OLED tech, so after telling people at CES that SUHD is better than OLED(which i think is definitely pushing it), now they wanna get back on the train. so the question is, if samsung jumps back into oled, does that drive down the price of their LED tvs? will they abandon the FALD LED?
Samsung sells way to many LED's, they will not abandon the technology, depending if OLED prices change in the future, they sure could lead to LED price drops......
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post #540 of 13063 Old 04-01-2015, 08:24 PM
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^^^^
It's only a precautionary measure,it's not like they are going to stop developing their SUHD

Quote:
The Samsung Group is proposing its panel business Samsung Display shift production focus to further include OLED TV panels as the company fears profits from its LCD panel business will continue to fluctuate due to rising influence from other makers in the industry, most notably from China

Last edited by 3dprojector; 04-01-2015 at 08:33 PM.
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