Samsung JS9500 owners thread - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AVmanic View Post
Thanks for the great review Chad. I was looking at this set really hard. As I have the Vizio P70 and I've been very happy with it. Of course after I calibrated it. And I can confirm that your 120 fL is correct for the P70.

I was trying to figure out if the $4000 difference from what I paid for the P70 would uphold. Bottom line for me was would the PQ be worth $4000 more.

If you have any input on this that would be great.

Big thanks again and great review....
At least Vizio is good about getting 4K out affordably. Too bad I have two dead Vizio's sitting in my basement. I would consider Vizio again in the future, but they would have to put more into quality. Even the remote is poor. How hard is it that when you press a button on the keyboard that it should enter it on the TV? The Samsung remote is the coolest remote I have ever used. Also, the first time I plugged in a 4K video on USB into the Samsung it played it flawlessly. On the Vizio P50, it stuttered until the TV rebooted. 1080 up scaling on the Samsung also looked better than the P50. For me the Samsung was worth the extra cost. Is it perfect? No, but the one connect box should provided additional life out of this set in the future. Is it worth the extra cost? Yes, but I would wait till prices drop unless you NEED a new TV because yours died, etc.
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post #572 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 07:46 AM
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Thanks for the input but I have yet to have any problems and all the 4k I have, has played just fine from my USB thumb drive. As for the one connect box I agree in some ways about future proof but its not the case for last Years Samsung TV's do to panel changes for HDR. And if they jump to a 12 bit panel within the next two years that will hold true once again.

Still on the fence but thank you very much for your insight...
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post #573 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 08:30 AM
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Great review Chad, thanks.

A couple of interesting takeaways I found, is that contrary to typical LCDs, the JS9500 seems to be about as much of a bear to calibrate as the OLEDs. Correct me if I'm wrong. These new displays aren't making it much easier for you guys.

Similar to the OLEDs, there are also calibration quirks, although the nature of which are different in the JS9500, that just can't be dialed out.

The different FALD levels, seemed to do little to impact overall CR since although boosting luminance on the high end, it also seemed to detract a bit from the MLL. I'd probably want to keep my MLL as low as possible. This may have ramifications in one of the biggest areas that separate the JS9500 from the pack, HDR.

I'm not at all surprised that the QD has little impact on HD material. Again, I think people expect too much from some of these things and will be a bit disappointed when they don't quite measure up to what they've read or heard from the manufacturer.

So the big question Chad, how does the JS9500 measure up to OLED when viewing HD material?
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post #574 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:41 AM
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After seeing the contrast ratio numbers and discussion on the Uniformity, which isn't good, I'm no longer thinking this is something to compare to an OLED and my interest is gone. If I bought an LCD today it'd be the sony 950b, or if I just wanted to trade a bit of accuracy to save 3-4K it would be the Vizio P, which has pretty amazing uniformity IMO for an LCD. Goodluck everyone!
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post #575 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:09 AM
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I don't have cable or satellite. I will make a video later. I have a cheap nikon digital camera but it's the best I have, lol.

I was most shocked by how good the whole experience is. Great picture, great remote, great OS, better stand, much better 3d... crap 3d glasses.

My two biggest complaints with this TV are that the 3d glasses are cheap and use battery that isn't rechargable and the one connect box cosmetically is inferior to the previous generations.

Anyways my wife is playing sunset overdrive on Xbox one with the TV right now. I tried out racing and rythm games in standard mode without the input lag bothering me. Game mode disables so many features of the TV that is looks worse than the f9000
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post #576 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
After seeing the contrast ratio numbers and discussion on the Uniformity, which isn't good, I'm no longer thinking this is something to compare to an OLED and my interest is gone. If I bought an LCD today it'd be the sony 950b, or if I just wanted to trade a bit of accuracy to save 3-4K it would be the Vizio P, which has pretty amazing uniformity IMO for an LCD. Goodluck everyone!
And you are basing that off of what exactly? Inaccurate ANSI measurements? Also, testing a HDR display without HDR material is like testing a HD display using DVDs. Why don't you wait for the UK or VE shootout and see how they compare to each other using proper viewing material before totally writing them off.
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post #577 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:43 AM
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mo949 and Ken are looking at Chad review from different Perspective!Am I right?
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post #578 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 11:00 AM
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post #579 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 11:17 AM
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And you are basing that off of what exactly? Inaccurate ANSI measurements? Also, testing a HDR display without HDR material is like testing a HD display using DVDs. Why don't you wait for the UK or VE shootout and see how they compare to each other using proper viewing material before totally writing them off.
OK so let's take a look Chad's review has a lot of key info and I would believe what he says over a web site any day that probably gets kick backs from companies.

Ok so you state view HDR. In one year there may be 1% of content that will be HDR. In one year the next Big TV will be out with a better HDR implantation.

So I don't personally look at the js9500 for its HDR or its wider color gamut. Because that is not what I would see on a daily base.
And as of now Rec.709 is still used 99% of the time with any type of broadcast material.
So I would as most have so far calibrate to Rec.709.

Not coming at anyone just giving my point of view as most do. I know that there are some that need a new set and this would be great for them.
As for money that's not a big deal for me. But I am smart with my money..
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post #580 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 12:11 PM
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mo949 and Ken are looking at Chad review from different Perspective!Am I right?
I think the issues we're discussing are issues that Chad discovered. I'm waiting to hear his perspective on subjective PQ vs OLED while watching HD.

Let's face it, the majority of what we'll be watching for quite some time will be HD...without HDR.
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post #581 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 12:55 PM
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The calibration took so long I did not have the opportunity to look at anything but 1080i cable and my reference screencaps after calibration, but I do plan on remedying that and will post the updated results. However, I do believe I have a pretty good handle on how this set looks with HD content.

I will try to post some more charts when I get time within the next few days. I don't think the Effects (SOE, DSE) can be captured with screenshots; they're too dynamic.

See the post below yours about the settings, but I did give some general guidelines for rough settings in the review.
Chad: Out of curiosity, how does the JS9500 compare with the x950b in overall picture quality?
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post #582 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 12:57 PM
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I think the issues we're discussing are issues that Chad discovered. I'm waiting to hear his perspective on subjective PQ vs OLED while watching HD.

Let's face it, the majority of what we'll be watching for quite some time will be HD...without HDR.
Exactly. This thing does not even compete with OLED on any level. Someone a few posts back said they would rather save 3K than get "slightly better contrast". Well, Im not sure about you, but 1800:1 (native), versus nearly infinite, is not "slightly better". Also, the 65" JS9500 msrp is $7999 which is the same as the flat 65" 4k OLED. Obviously the msrp is not going to reflect the actual street price (as was the case for the js9500).
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post #583 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 01:06 PM
 
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I think the issues we're discussing are issues that Chad discovered. I'm waiting to hear his perspective on subjective PQ vs OLED while watching HD.

Let's face it, the majority of what we'll be watching for quite some time will be HD...without HDR.
I guess that is what I am confused about. They way I read it, SMPTE HDR is mandatory for UHD Blu-ray releases. With DolbyVision of Technicolor HDR being optional. Granted it will probably be the end of the year at earliest for U-Ray movies, but since all the old master copies will need to be rescanned for 4K streaming also, most studios will also make a HDR pass at that time. I guess I mistakenly though all U-ray disc would be HDR encoded.
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post #584 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
timc1475 read Chad B public profile ,in about me ( I do not share the calibrated settings, as each display should be calibrated individually.)

here is the ranking, he doesn't have yet the JS9500 on the list.

http://hdtvbychadb.com/tv-reviews
Ok thanks losservatore I never seen those pages before. Hopefully in 2015 we should see the rankings grow as sets are released. It would be nice to see them grouped by year as well.


If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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post #585 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 01:18 PM
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Sytech, because a release contains HDR information, doesn't mean that the HDR effect will be present in most or even a significant part of the movie. Think of it like watching a 3D movie. Much of the movie may not have the 3D effect, just as much of an HDR-encoded movie may not have a brilliant highlight.

My fear is that it might be too gimmicky at the beginning, with the HDR effect being overplayed to the point of it being a bit absurd. But who knows, we'll see.

Additionally, if watching UHD BD is not the bulk of your viewing, as in my case, then the HDR importance might be substantially less. I don't see the networks doing HDR anytime soon. I'm still waiting for the first arrival of 4K from them.
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post #586 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 01:39 PM
 
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Sytech, because a release contains HDR information, doesn't mean that the HDR effect will be present in most or even a significant part of the movie. Think of it like watching a 3D movie. Much of the movie may not have the 3D effect, just as much of an HDR-encoded movie may not have a brilliant highlight.

My fear is that it might be too gimmicky at the beginning, with the HDR effect being overplayed to the point of it being a bit absurd. But who knows, we'll see.

Additionally, if watching UHD BD is not the bulk of your viewing, as in my case, then the HDR importance might be substantially less. I don't see the networks doing HDR anytime soon. I'm still waiting for the first arrival of 4K from them.
Yeah, it will probably be awhile before the networks make the switch, but Netflix believes HDR is more important than even 4K and will begin streaming 4K HDR by the end of 2015. Most of my viewing would be Netflix and U-ray when available, so I have a keen interest in getting a display that at least has the capabilities. Hopefully they will get an HDR grading standard soon.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...ction=showfull
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post #587 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
After seeing the contrast ratio numbers and discussion on the Uniformity, which isn't good, I'm no longer thinking this is something to compare to an OLED and my interest is gone. If I bought an LCD today it'd be the sony 950b, or if I just wanted to trade a bit of accuracy to save 3-4K it would be the Vizio P, which has pretty amazing uniformity IMO for an LCD. Goodluck everyone!





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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
And you are basing that off of what exactly? Inaccurate ANSI measurements? Also, testing a HDR display without HDR material is like testing a HD display using DVDs. Why don't you wait for the UK or VE shootout and see how they compare to each other using proper viewing material before totally writing them off.


I agree with you here sytech, also testing a 4k with "1080i" material instead of widely available online 4k material or BD is like running a race horse in water, as you don't get very far to fast. 1080i HD content is fine but testing with 4k & BD is equally important on a 4k set IMO. Even my X1 Comcast box has higher settings available of 1080i > 1080p 30Hz > 1080p 60Hz. I imagine there is a discernable quality difference between the 1080i 30 Hz and the 1080p 60 Hz.

When we judge these displays it is important and only fair to feed them all high quality equal 4k content as well as the lessor standard HD be it 1080i @ 30 Hz or up to 1080p @ 60 Hz.


If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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post #588 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AVmanic View Post
OK so let's take a look Chad's review has a lot of key info and I would believe what he says over a web site any day that probably gets kick backs from companies.

Ok so you state view HDR. In one year there may be 1% of content that will be HDR. In one year the next Big TV will be out with a better HDR implantation.

So I don't personally look at the js9500 for its HDR or its wider color gamut. Because that is not what I would see on a daily base.
And as of now Rec.709 is still used 99% of the time with any type of broadcast material.
So I would as most have so far calibrate to Rec.709.

Not coming at anyone just giving my point of view as most do. I know that there are some that need a new set and this would be great for them.
As for money that's not a big deal for me. But I am smart with my money..
Tell us where you're "smart money" would go if you had to purchase a 2015 set. Which 4k LCD (non Oled) would you really choose?

Also for a daily driver the JS9500 from what I have seen owners saying and posting pics & other reviews the PQ is fantastic even excluding HDR as the sets have 10 bits, higher NIT's and increased color gamuts. Especially when compared to all prior LCD 4k tech besides Oled which is too pricy currently in my needed size of 70 to 80 inches.

For the computer techno geeks how many other current 4k's can do HDMI 2.0 @ 18 gbs with 4:4:4 chroma @ 60Hz besides the JS9500? So yeah this set is the one to beat overall in the 4k foray for overall PQ and such a full feature set IMO.

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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post #589 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
Tell us where you're "smart money" would go if you had to purchase a 2015 set. Which 4k LCD (non Oled) would you really choose?
I would have to wait at this point and see all the offerings. There still a Vizio R65 in the wind with expanded color and HDR plus 384 local dimming zones and more ect.
But as of now I'm happy with my Vizio P70. Yes it wasn't great out of the box. But a couple days with my meter on it and its very good now.

From the last post. Not sure about age or education here.
But you can't put the cart before the wheel. And at this time even for testing there is not much 4k and defiantly any 4k with HDR.

As was already stated it will be some time for network broadcasting to even get to 4k. Yes we use Netflix as well. I would say 50% of the time. As well as BR from my Oppo 103D.

I love tech myself and the bleeding edge. But I also see what is here and its not.
I don't make any purchase on a promise of what my come. One because the TV manufacture's don't own the networks for the most part. And in business if I can't make a lot of money from something that has an up front cost involved. Well simply I don't.

And you say at the end of the year. Well CES will have improved HDR ect maybe 12bit panels by then.

Bottom line if you need a new TV at this time I would highly recommend the js9500. But if its because it has X,Y or Z. I would wait.

In all I wish the best enjoyment to all with what ever they may choose.

Last edited by AVmanic; 04-02-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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post #590 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 02:34 PM
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^^^ No one is right, no one is wrong. There is no wrong answer.......Everyone interprets things different, everyone generates there own opinion.
true,just making sure that I'm not reading their comments in a wrong way

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I think the issues we're discussing are issues that Chad discovered. I'm waiting to hear his perspective on subjective PQ vs OLED while watching HD.

Let's face it, the majority of what we'll be watching for quite some time will be HD...without HDR.
that's right as for the 2015 models,but things might change for the next..say 2-3 years(if UHD Alliance keep their promises).
hopefully the production of UHD material will increase on a massive scale.
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post #591 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 03:22 PM
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I agree with you here sytech, also testing a 4k with "1080i" material instead of widely available online 4k material or BD is like running a race horse in water, as you don't get very far to fast. 1080i HD content is fine but testing with 4k & BD is equally important on a 4k set IMO. Even my X1 Comcast box has higher settings available of 1080i > 1080p 30Hz > 1080p 60Hz. I imagine there is a discernable quality difference between the 1080i 30 Hz and the 1080p 60 Hz.

I agree with some of what you are saying; but definitely not that your Comcast box is improving the signal by changing output from 1080i 30hz to 1080p 60hz (it's not adding any data just doing some video processing). If I didn't think that a $6K Samsung could do better video processing better than a "crappy" Comcast STB, I sure as hell would not buy the Samsung.
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post #592 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 04:06 PM
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Thinking about buying this TV but my usage would be 95% gaming 5% movies/TV. Occasionally I might play a 2D sidescrolling game with sprites. Being that this TV is curved, would it make a 2D sprite base game appear distorted?
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post #593 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 04:29 PM
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This sucks, looks like the 78js9500 is going to be $15k. I was hoping for $10k or less. There is also a 78js9100 that is $10k but it's edge lit so it doesn't interest me. The sony xbr-75x940c is potentially a much better deal at $8k for a fald tv with hdr.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung-...ews-20738.html
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post #594 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 04:40 PM
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By the way we counted 150 local dimming zones on the UN65JS9500. As a reference the Elite PRO-60X5FD had 216 Local Dimming Zones. So not to shabby Samsung.......
Were these 150 dimming zones organized as 15 columns and 10 rows?

Also, the Sharp Elite with 216 dimming zones (probably organized as 12 rows and 18 columns) was the 60".

The 70" Sharp Elite had more - about 300 if memory serves...
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post #595 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by anis_ber View Post
people keep saying it's OLED vs SUHD which is wrong
we are talking about OLED vs SUHD FALD. edge dimming SUHD will be crushed if we compare it to OLED. SUHD FALD is not cheap either and is almost comparable to LG OLED (street price)
Personally I'd go OLED

" we are talking about OLED vs SUHD FALD. edge dimming SUHD will be crushed if we compare it to OLED"


Not true, if you take the time to read "professional reviews" of the JS9500 vs the JS9000, you will see they were very closely matched, and with certain contrast enhancements turned on, the edge lit SUHD actually edged out the Fald in contrast ratio, albeit not by much and not significant.
The reviewer summed it up as "only in a very dark room would one might notice a difference between the two", that is not to say both were not great, however.


I wished I would have saved all those old TVs I usta work on where the flyback transformers went out and the customer had a "Perfectly Black Screen", I could make a fortune selling those to Ken, and some others that think the only thing that matters is black.


Take the time to read some of the professional reviews on the OLED sets, complaints, they cant be calibrated, multi colored snow or ice, banding, poor upscaling, poor motion, You name it!


Being a Techqie I really wanted to go OLED, and I really hope the 2015 models are better, but I'm not willing to give everything else up for black.


Gary goes off to see if he can find any of those old TV's that have "Perfect Blacks"


Gary
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post #596 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 04:49 PM
 
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I don't have the calibration knowledge like Chad but I do know to get a brighter image on JS9500 it has to be set to native colour space or in natural preset (psuedo HDR).He also will not get the peak brightness without HDR . The met data is needed to get peak nits from the set you need higher bandwidth 18 gps for more nits and this will only be available with 4k blurays and netflix.
I also don't understand how a review for this set could be done without 4k content or HDR and be anywhere accurate to the sets capabilities
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post #597 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 05:07 PM
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I don't have the calibration knowledge like Chad but I do know to get a brighter image on JS9500 it has to be set to native colour space or in natural preset (psuedo HDR).He also will not get the peak brightness without HDR . The met data is needed to get peak nits from the set you need higher bandwidth 18 gps for more nits and this will only be available with 4k blurays and netflix.
I also don't understand how a review for this set could be done without 4k content or HDR and be anywhere accurate to the sets capabilities
I agree. I called out this point a little further up in this thread here> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post33150137



If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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post #598 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 05:14 PM
 
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Don't shoot the messenger, I am just trying to pass on more information.

The German site has posted part 4 of their OLED vs SUHD comparision. Apparently, the Samsung can only do 444/4K/60 through the ports labeled as PC which disables many image settings. Wonder if it also somehow disables or bypasses the HDCP 2.2 as well, making them not compatible with U-ray? They are contacting Samsung for clarification.

Also, when using the HDR demos of "Life of Pi", "Exodus", "Oblivion" and "The Great Gatsby" they felt

The brightness advantage of luminous details is striking, at the same time are more details in bright areas identified. By changing the image voting HDR material act "normal" scenes brilliant, without appearing unnatural...The contrast impression and thus also the sharpness improved and details in very bright areas burn in contrast to the normal full-HD and UHD version from not when it comes to the currently best 2D representation is Samsung 65JS9590 thus slightly superior to the 65EG9609, at least until the 65EG9609 LG makes HDR-capable - a confirmation of the HDR capability but is still pending.

So, when using native HDR material they felt that SUHD was slightly superior to OLED. At least until there are HDR capable OLED displays available. This is only the first of many comparisons to come, so others may get very different results.

http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&prev=search
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post #599 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
I agree. I called out this point a little further up in this thread here> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post33150137



One can say,what's the point in using 4k material when the majority is HD as Ken mentioned earlier!
though,I tend to disagree with this, a 4K set should be calibrated and judge by using 4K material.we don't use a 91 octane fuel to test a 95 octane engine,this is not the way to discover it's potentials.
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post #600 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
I guess that is what I am confused about. They way I read it, SMPTE HDR is mandatory for UHD Blu-ray releases. With DolbyVision of Technicolor HDR being optional. Granted it will probably be the end of the year at earliest for U-Ray movies, but since all the old master copies will need to be rescanned for 4K streaming also, most studios will also make a HDR pass at that time. I guess I mistakenly though all U-ray disc would be HDR encoded.

I may be mistaken, but I thought "Mandatory" applied to player, not content.

However, I agree why would a studio not encode for HDR as they do the work? They are re-scanning not to spend money for the fun of it, they are doing it to make us want to spend money for the fun of it

Best regards, dave

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