Samsung JS9500 owners thread - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5902Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #601 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 06:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 27
First.
This website also did a calibration on both the JS9500 as well as the JSS9000, I will let you read it and determine for yourselves how difficult it was, alto out of the box the TV's were certainly close enough for me, alto I "might" back off the red a bit. This is also the site that mentioned the "Minimal difference between the SUHD Fald and the Edge lit, course, as many of you, I would go for the Fald, but I can only fit in a 60" TV where my 52 inch Sharp now resides, and the Fald only comes in 65"& >


I do want to thank Chad for his review, of the TV and I did find it most helpful!


Second
To really understand while not using HDR sources, that this TV "could look better" than TV's that do not use Quatum dots, one should study Quantum dots as I have. To put it in simple terms, they are more "Color Selective", Scientific "Narrower bandpass Emission". So what's the "Big Deal" about that?
Using "white" leds, (usually blue leds with a yellow phosphor), first is not all that efficient, or even using similar LED's with different colored phosphors, (red, blue green)are not only not that effieicent but they emit a lot of "wrong colors" that have to be blocked. The same is true for the OLED's with the Red, Green and Blue phosphors.


Filters have to be used to get the "Perfect" Red, Green or Blue Color, so the filters block all the light out that is not "Perfect" and hence waste a lot of light. Same for the Oled's with the red blue and green filters on them.


With the "close to perfect" green and red colored quantum dots, that don't emit light at colors not needed, (or at least not near as much as the colored phosphors do, and using a more "selective filter", then less light is blocked and hence the display can get brighter, and be far more efficient.


I really expect to see Quantum Dot Oled TV's as that will be an easy way for them to increase brightness without using a lot more power than they already do (at mid to High brightness).


LCDLED TVs this year went from a max brightness of around 500, to around 1100 whilst
OLED TV's, (so far), have only increased in brightness by 50 (somewhere around 325 to 375).


Anyway, I hope this helps to explain why a quantum Dot TV (SUHD) can, (even with non HDR content), can product a brighter more colorful picture than a TV without same.


OOOps here's that website.


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm


Gary
eclipsegt and venus933 like this.

Last edited by 1959Dodge; 04-02-2015 at 06:16 PM. Reason: left out info
1959Dodge is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #602 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 06:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
David Mathews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Howell, MI, USA
Posts: 1,010
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Sytech, because a release contains HDR information, doesn't mean that the HDR effect will be present in most or even a significant part of the movie. Think of it like watching a 3D movie. Much of the movie may not have the 3D effect, just as much of an HDR-encoded movie may not have a brilliant highlight.

My fear is that it might be too gimmicky at the beginning, with the HDR effect being overplayed to the point of it being a bit absurd. But who knows, we'll see.

Additionally, if watching UHD BD is not the bulk of your viewing, as in my case, then the HDR importance might be substantially less. I don't see the networks doing HDR anytime soon. I'm still waiting for the first arrival of 4K from them.
Ken,
agree, for most people that use sets for multi-purpose, there's not much reason to be early adopter especially if they have a working set. Even early adopter, strong case could be made for many people to choose OLED since you are right, bulk of "normal" content will be SDR for at least a few years.

I may be in minority, I won't watch much broad cast if any at all on this set, it will be mainly movies. I watch network TV with family on other sets, one of which is a plasma. (only people like us on AVS look at the news, and think "gosh, what a good picture, look at that guy's suit!"

I'm interested in HDR actually for some of the other subtle benefits, perhaps even as much as the highlights. Many would argue its the 10 bit, not HDR that gives the expanded detail and color saturation capability. (not talking color gamut, a subtle difference)

Agree there's probably going to be some pretty inept HDR encoded movies among the good ones! Hope to avoid them by reading reviews first.

Best regards, dave

Dave
David Mathews is offline  
post #603 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 06:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2830
why criticize the work of chad b? if you dont like the review of the calibration read others reviews that praise the tv ,reviews that do not go deep into flaws ,is simple ,chad b did a great job and a unbiased calibration review and remember he is posting what he experienced during calibration ,the flaws that he mention doesn't need content at all.

content may mask some of the flaws but that doesn't mean that they are not there.

Last edited by losservatore; 04-02-2015 at 06:45 PM.
losservatore is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #604 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 06:50 PM
 
sytech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,567
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2104 Post(s)
Liked: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
why criticize the work of chad b? if you dont like the review of the calibration read others reviews that praise the tv ,reviews that do not go deep into flaws ,is simple ,chad b did a great job and a unbiased calibration review and remember he is posting what he experienced during calibration ,the flaws that he mention doesn't need content at all.

content may mask some of the flaws but that doesn't mean that they are not there.
I don't think anyone is criticizing Chad's hard and thorough work. When I said inaccurate contrast measurement, I just meant the test pattern used to obtain those numbers does not work well because of how FALD displays work and are not representative of its ability viewing actual content.
sytech is offline  
post #605 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 07:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
wicklow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked: 279
I agree, it has nothing to do with chads much appreciated review. It has to do with judging the displays complete capabilities, as has been said by every review site, the display really shines when using HDR 4K content (something chad himself said he was unable to test at that time). This sentiment was echoed by Dnice also. I would reserve judgement of the display until seeing what it can do with the content that it was made for. Then if it falls flat fair enough, but I will wait until I have seen it running at its fullest capacity before deciding.
David Mathews and dsinger like this.
wicklow is offline  
post #606 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 08:28 PM
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3935 Post(s)
Liked: 2944
Here are some videos of JS9500

The contrast and brightness look very bright to me on the SUHD demo they show and black levels look very deep


This video JS9500 spanks both F8500 and hu8550


I have yet to see Samsung compare HU9000 to JS9500 its always f8500 or 8550 . 8550 was not the flagship in 2014 so why not compare 9000 unless 9000 compares favorably or OCB will bring it close food for thought. 9000 wont overcome quantum dots but it is a 10 bit panel so it can do the new colour gamut hmmmmm
player002 is offline  
post #607 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 08:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2830
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post
I don't think anyone is criticizing Chad's hard and thorough work. When I said inaccurate contrast measurement, I just meant the test pattern used to obtain those numbers does not work well because of how FALD displays work and are not representative of its ability viewing actual content.


IMO the contrast on some scenes will be perceived better than other scenes, specially dark scenes in a dark environment ,no dim lit room.



player002 those are very biased videos and are made for marketing purposes ,I will wait for the tv shootout.
fafrd and Latinoheat like this.

Last edited by losservatore; 04-02-2015 at 10:50 PM.
losservatore is offline  
post #608 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,212
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7378 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1959Dodge View Post
" we are talking about OLED vs SUHD FALD. edge dimming SUHD will be crushed if we compare it to OLED"


Not true, if you take the time to read "professional reviews" of the JS9500 vs the JS9000, you will see they were very closely matched, and with certain contrast enhancements turned on, the edge lit SUHD actually edged out the Fald in contrast ratio, albeit not by much and not significant.
The reviewer summed it up as "only in a very dark room would one might notice a difference between the two", that is not to say both were not great, however.


I wished I would have saved all those old TVs I usta work on where the flyback transformers went out and the customer had a "Perfectly Black Screen", I could make a fortune selling those to Ken, and some others that think the only thing that matters is black.


Take the time to read some of the professional reviews on the OLED sets, complaints, they cant be calibrated, multi colored snow or ice, banding, poor upscaling, poor motion, You name it!


Being a Techqie I really wanted to go OLED, and I really hope the 2015 models are better, but I'm not willing to give everything else up for black.


Gary goes off to see if he can find any of those old TV's that have "Perfect Blacks"


Gary
Gary, in your young career here at AVS, I would suggest you not mischaracterize what others say.

Saying the 'most important' thing in PQ is black levels (which I did say) is very different than saying the 'only thing' that's important is black levels (which I didn't say).
Ken Ross is offline  
post #609 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
roller11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by player002 View Post
Here are some videos of JS9500

The contrast and brightness look very bright to me on the SUHD demo they show and black levels look very deep

https://youtu.be/ELcA2wSFTfs

This video JS9500 spanks both F8500 and hu8550

https://youtu.be/O_dLhCYDfTQ

I have yet to see Samsung compare HU9000 to JS9500 its always f8500 or 8550 . 8550 was not the flagship in 2014 so why not compare 9000 unless 9000 compares favorably or OCB will bring it close food for thought. 9000 wont overcome quantum dots but it is a 10 bit panel so it can do the new colour gamut hmmmmm
What a crock. This is the same samsung that did a presentation at CES side-by-side of HU9000 vs js9500. Reviewer thought "Hmm... looks like the hu9000 was doing 1080P" when asked later, caught red handed the presenter admitted he cheated. 4K vs 1080P was the actual comparison. samsung accidentally "forgot" to tell the press corp the comparison was rigged. Sabatoge "B" and see how much better "A" looks.
Sounds like the samsung we all know.
roller11 is offline  
post #610 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,212
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7378 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post
Don't shoot the messenger, I am just trying to pass on more information.

The German site has posted part 4 of their OLED vs SUHD comparision. Apparently, the Samsung can only do 444/4K/60 through the ports labeled as PC which disables many image settings. Wonder if it also somehow disables or bypasses the HDCP 2.2 as well, making them not compatible with U-ray? They are contacting Samsung for clarification.

Also, when using the HDR demos of "Life of Pi", "Exodus", "Oblivion" and "The Great Gatsby" they felt

The brightness advantage of luminous details is striking, at the same time are more details in bright areas identified. By changing the image voting HDR material act "normal" scenes brilliant, without appearing unnatural...The contrast impression and thus also the sharpness improved and details in very bright areas burn in contrast to the normal full-HD and UHD version from not when it comes to the currently best 2D representation is Samsung 65JS9590 thus slightly superior to the 65EG9609, at least until the 65EG9609 LG makes HDR-capable - a confirmation of the HDR capability but is still pending.

So, when using native HDR material they felt that SUHD was slightly superior to OLED. At least until there are HDR capable OLED displays available. This is only the first of many comparisons to come, so others may get very different results.

http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&prev=search
So let's assume that's true. Wouldn't the obvious question be, how does the SUHD display compare to OLED for the overwhelming majority of material that's not HDR?

Ultimately it may then come down to a decision of whether you want a display that looks better 95% of the time vs a display that looks slightly better 5% of the time.

I'm simply conjecturing, but these are certainly questions that I would think objective people would want answered. I know I do.

Remember, based solely on what I saw at CES, I said back then the SUHD display was, IMO, the 2nd best display there. But I still haven't seen one in a dark environment.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #611 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,212
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7378 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dprojector View Post
One can say,what's the point in using 4k material when the majority is HD as Ken mentioned earlier!
though,I tend to disagree with this, a 4K set should be calibrated and judge by using 4K material.we don't use a 91 octane fuel to test a 95 octane engine,this is not the way to discover it's potentials.
Well to be fair, my implication was that Chad's findings should not be dismissed simply because he only viewed HD. As I said, we'll be watching predominantly HD for quite some time.

With that said, those that have read my posts know how important 4K is to me, I shoot lots of it. So yes, I would absolutely want to know how it's UHD performance compares to the UHD OLEDs I've seen. Having seen the 77" OLED playing my own 4K material, the bar is set very high.

I'm looking forward to seeing how these sets perform.
rlb likes this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #612 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,212
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7378 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
Ken,
agree, for most people that use sets for multi-purpose, there's not much reason to be early adopter especially if they have a working set. Even early adopter, strong case could be made for many people to choose OLED since you are right, bulk of "normal" content will be SDR for at least a few years.

I may be in minority, I won't watch much broad cast if any at all on this set, it will be mainly movies. I watch network TV with family on other sets, one of which is a plasma. (only people like us on AVS look at the news, and think "gosh, what a good picture, look at that guy's suit!"

I'm interested in HDR actually for some of the other subtle benefits, perhaps even as much as the highlights. Many would argue its the 10 bit, not HDR that gives the expanded detail and color saturation capability. (not talking color gamut, a subtle difference)

Agree there's probably going to be some pretty inept HDR encoded movies among the good ones! Hope to avoid them by reading reviews first.

Best regards, dave
Dave, that's a 'Bingo'. I think many do miss the contribution that the 10 bit makes in this picture...pun intended.
David Mathews likes this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #613 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:54 PM
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3935 Post(s)
Liked: 2944
So funny to me the usual suspects keep downplaying this set . This discussion is for people who are genuinely interested in the set if you don't like it or think its inadequate why continue to post here? Not like we did not hear you the 50 previous times that you think the set is trash smh . I for one can't wait for the shoot outs to begin . Mark my words the only thing that will beat this set this year are the blacks of OLED but from what I have read and seen thus far the SUHD has superior colours by far(DCI P3) and gets much brighter than OLED. Sony is meh this year only the 75 inch 940c does HDR and we don't know if it's standard or Sony's own in house solution. Panny will have great colours but will they have horrible banding like last year? OLED can't get as bright and TBH they will probably need to add quantum dots and develop a better OLED panel to get HDR so looking like 2016(speculation on my part).

So many like to nit pick on LED shortcomings when the truth of the matter is all displays technologies have their own shortcomings. OLED is reported to have multi colours on whites or very bad motion also possibility of burn in not to mention blk crush due to infinite blacks which causes calibrators to grey within 5 minutes of hooking up equipment to sets

IPS has great viewing angles but poor contrast and lighter blacks. LED has poorer off axis and blacks are not OLED black but gets brighter . Plasma can't get as bright as led can get burn in and can't do 4k. No such thing as perfect set. I don't think OLED will be able to do HDR this year I think the battle will be between 9500 and 940c its gunna come down to HDR and colour space both will have great BLK levels due to fald.

I go on 940C page and don't run down the set even though I am more interested in SUHD . I think it's a great year for 4k tv's and can't wait to see who is crowned king but enough with the bashing already you said your piece have some respect for the owners of the set and people who are interested in the tech. Yes freedom of speech on these boards but you guys just keep coming in here and saying the same stuff every time say your opinion and let it be. Now it is just irritating to see the same people spewing the same lines over and over again. Mods really need to clean this stuff up .

I think OLED is the future TBH but it's still to early the need to work out more kinks but I do love me some OLED blacks. If SUHD can almost get me there but have HDR and much higher colour gamut the 5-10% worse blacks is a better trade off IMO.
rlb, timc1475, 3dprojector and 1 others like this.

Last edited by player002; 04-02-2015 at 10:07 PM.
player002 is offline  
post #614 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 09:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Chad B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bradford, OH
Posts: 2,720
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Liked: 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So the big question Chad, how does the JS9500 measure up to OLED when viewing HD material?
I still think the OLEDS are the best displays I've seen on HD, though as I have done more of them I am starting to be bothered by the color inaccuracies more.
I don't think it's all that close of a contest on some content, like dark movies, credits, etc.


sent from my mobile device - HDTVbyChadB.com
David Mathews likes this.

touring ISF/THX calibrator with Jeti 1211 and Klein K-10
Latest reviews:JVC RS540, JVC RS3000, Sony VPL-VW695ES
Copied settings measured, Review archive
Chad B is offline  
post #615 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:01 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
ray0414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 16,951
Mentioned: 266 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12767 Post(s)
Liked: 12093
Quote:
Originally Posted by player002 View Post
So funny to me the usual suspects keep downplaying this set . This discussion is for people who are genuinely interested in the set if you don't like it or think its inadequate why continue to post here? Not like we did not hear you the 50 previous times that you think the set is trash smh . I for one can't wait for the shoot outs to begin . Mark my words the only thing that will beat this set this year are the blacks of OLED but from what I have read and seen thus far the SUHD has superior colours by far(DCI P3) and gets much brighter than OLED. Sony is meh this year only the 75 inch 940c does HDR and we don't know if it's standard or Sony's own in house solution. Panny will have great colours but will they have horrible banding like last year? OLED can't get as bright and TBH they will probably need to add quantum dots and develop a better OLED panel to get HDR so looking like 2016(speculation on my part).

So many like to nit pick on LED shortcomings when the truth of the matter is all displays technologies have their own shortcomings. OLED is reported to have multi colours on whites or very bad motion also possibility of burn in not to mention blk crush due to infinite blacks which causes calibrators to grey within 5 minutes of hooking up equipment to sets

IPS has great viewing angles but poor contrast and lighter blacks. LED has poorer off axis and blacks are not OLED black but gets brighter . Plasma can't get as bright as led can get burn in and can't do 4k. No such thing as perfect set. I don't think OLED will be able to do HDR this year I think the battle will be between 9500 and 940c its gunna come down to HDR and colour space both will have great BLK levels due to fald.

I go on 940C page and don't run down the set even though I am more interested in SUHD . I think it's a great year for 4k tv's and can't wait to see who is crowned king but enough with the bashing already you said your piece have some respect for the owners of the set and people who are interested in the tech. Yes freedom of speech on these boards but you guys just keep coming in here and saying the same stuff every time so your opinion and let it be. Now it is just irritating to see the same people spewing the same lines over and over again. Mods really need to clean this stuff up .
i find it hilarious that all the haters bitched about the big reviewers saying they measured hte blacks at .06, now chad b calibrates it and comes back with .002-.004? and apparently now the tv is crap? lol okay. makes sense to me!
timc1475 and player002 like this.

82Q90R*75Q9FN(RIP)*55C8OLED*Galaxy Note10+*Ub820 fed into Oppo 203*XB1X*4k DenonX4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
ray0414 is online now  
post #616 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,212
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7378 Post(s)
Liked: 8256
Thanks Chad. I'm assuming when you speak of color inaccuracies, these are inaccuracies you can't calibrate out.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #617 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Chad B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bradford, OH
Posts: 2,720
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Liked: 1583
Yes, unfortunately. It's the subtle color shadings more than anything else.

sent from my mobile device - HDTVbyChadB.com

touring ISF/THX calibrator with Jeti 1211 and Klein K-10
Latest reviews:JVC RS540, JVC RS3000, Sony VPL-VW695ES
Copied settings measured, Review archive
Chad B is offline  
post #618 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 10:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
wicklow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked: 279
I have to say that it's even a question of which might be better is quite the achievement by samsung given the track record of the tech they are using. Having seen the uhd oleds I felt that there would be nothing that came close to it, but the fact that it's even a serious discussion I find to be very interesting. It's an interesting defense they have mounted against the oled blacks and ultimately I am delighted that we now have both the wcg/HDR/Fald uhd LCD displays and the uhd oleds (hopefully soon HDR also) to choose from.
wicklow is offline  
post #619 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 11:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4909
Quote:
Originally Posted by wicklow View Post
I have to say that it's even a question of which might be better is quite the achievement by samsung given the track record of the tech they are using. Having seen the uhd oleds I felt that there would be nothing that came close to it, but the fact that it's even a serious discussion I find to be very interesting. It's an interesting defense they have mounted against the oled blacks and ultimately I am delighted that we now have both the wcg/HDR/Fald uhd LCD displays and the uhd oleds (hopefully soon HDR also) to choose from.
Choice is good - that's not a hard argument to win
fafrd is offline  
post #620 of 13046 Old 04-02-2015, 11:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2830
I will never call this tv a trash ,I have no idea who is saying that,I can handle any issue related to the dead plasma display tech, I will never call someone that mention plasma issues a hater ,I will never try to kick out someone from a thread using false accusations.



I'm here to learn about displays and to look for my next TV which is Oled or LCD.

Last edited by losservatore; 04-03-2015 at 05:14 AM.
losservatore is offline  
post #621 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 12:05 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Industry Insider
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 24,802
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6793 Post(s)
Liked: 6795
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
post #622 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 12:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2830
I recommend 2015 4k TVs over the 2013 and 2014 4k TV's not because of HDR but because they probably handle better motion.

Last edited by losservatore; 04-03-2015 at 12:55 AM.
losservatore is offline  
post #623 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 01:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
*UFO*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,188
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
i find it hilarious that all the haters bitched about the big reviewers saying they measured hte blacks at .06, now chad b calibrates it and comes back with .002-.004? and apparently now the tv is crap? lol okay. makes sense to me!
The .06 number was from the standard ANSI test, as in, the test which all other tv's get tested with. You don't change the test to suit a certain tv. It either performs or it doesn't. In this case, it doesn't.
*UFO* is offline  
post #624 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 01:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
*UFO*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,188
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by player002 View Post
I think OLED is the future TBH but it's still to early the need to work out more kinks but I do love me some OLED blacks. If SUHD can almost get me there but have HDR and much higher colour gamut the 5-10% worse blacks is a better trade off IMO.

Uhh, 5%-10% worse? No, try over 6000% (yes, six-thousand) worse.
*UFO* is offline  
post #625 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 01:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
*UFO*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,188
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked: 684
And btw Player002, before you say "same people bashing this smh etc. etc", I am merely stating facts. Meanwhile...
*UFO* is offline  
post #626 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 02:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Several years ago, Samsung’s first Full Array Local Dimming LED LCD, the UN55B8500, offered video enthusiasts the incredible contrast we craved; and we eagerly awaited larger and newer models with similar FALD technology. However, it turned out to be a painfully long wait, as Samsung released only edge lit LEDs as replacements. Thankfully, their new UN65JS9500 finally fills the void for those of us who desire better contrast than edge lit technology allows. The JS9500 also features Quantum Dot LED technology and 4K UHD resolution, and it supports High Dynamic Range HDR playback.

The JS9500’s backlight is divided up into individual areas, with each zone illuminating only when picture content is being reproduced in it’s own part of the screen. The effectiveness of this technology is dependant on the number of zones, more being better; the intelligence and action of the dimming-boosting; the shape and definition of the zones; and the native panel contrast.

The number of zones plays a very important role, because fewer zones means more screen area around the picture content will glow, causing annoying blooming. Early FALD sets had anywhere from 90 to well over 200 zones, though sadly it seems that the trend has been going down in the few FALD offerings from Vizio and others. I counted 150 zones in the 65JS9500, with 10 rows of 15 across.

The JS9500 seemed pretty smart when it came to dimming action; stationary objects illuminated the zones less than moving objects, and moving objects gracefully illuminated the incoming zone while dimming the outbound zone in a similarly smooth fashion. However, some measurable white balance and gamma shifts occurred in the process, meaning that contrast aside, pictures will have some subtle but real dynamic shifts as the dimming action ramps up and down in different areas of the picture.

The shape of the 65JS9500’s zones is very diffuse. The most extreme example of sharply defined zones I’ve ever seen was in LG’s 55LE8500, where zones lit up like distracting squares and greatly diminished picture quality. Most FALD sets have moderately diffuse zones, giving a somewhat soft, diminishing glow around picture objects. I measured the glow area of the 65JS9500 at around 10-12” square for objects near the center of the screen, which will lead to the blooming being very gradual but covering a wide area of the screen.

The 65JS9500’s native panel contrast depended somewhat on the calibration technique used, but I found that the maximum attainable figure for Movie and the Cal Day and Night modes was a moderate 1843:1 (45/.024 fL). For comparison, the native CR of FALD sets from LG measure around 800-900:1, while the Sony X950B measures 3882:1 and the latest Vizios go even higher. All else being equal, this means that the visibility of the blooming on the JS9500 will be somewhat middle of the road.

The JS9500’s curved screen is very dark and soaks up ambient light like a sponge, though it’s shiny gloss means reflections can be very defined in some situations. I found it’s off axis behavior to be fairly sensitive to viewing angle, so viewers sitting more than a couple feet off axis at typical distances will see some shifts in picture quality from one edge of the screen to the other. The curved screen helps picture quality for viewers who are seated dead center and at closer than normal distances, because the screen edges will be more on axis in that situation.

Before calibration:

I began my evaluation of the JS9500’s various untouched picture modes in a room with moderate ambient light, watching some familiar Blu Ray 1080P/24 material.

Standard mode offered superb contrast, though shadow detail was too dark, making dark objects sink into black. The Soap Opera Effect, that hard to describe sensation of movies looking too much like video, was present, as well as some Dirty Screen Effect, which can give the illusion of greasy thumbprints in panning large white objects like clouds or hockey rinks. Orange tones looked too red, and reds were oversaturated, though skin tones were fairly well controlled. Colors appeared strong though cool and clinical. Detail was etched and hard, and bright white levels appeared slightly blended together. There was a surprising amount of depth, images popping off the screen in a very cool manner. Overall, the image looked impressive but overly enhanced and not very natural.

Natural mode had even more pop, but with reddish skin and orange tones. Natural looked quite similar to Standard but brighter and slightly more colored.

Movie displayed much more natural colors; red, orange, and blue shades looked real. However, it was still plagued by the pesky Effects gang, with SOE and DSE detracting from the picture quality. Somewhat earthy toned, Movie had a slightly off-white look in place of the cool and clinical color tones of Standard and Natural. Skin tones were just slightly too ruddy. Shadow detail was good and strong, though I felt it had a somewhat reddish cast at times. The picture had good depth and excellent contrast. Textures of moving objects appeared slightly smoothed, as would be expected with aggressive noise reduction.

Calibration:

Some quick fixes to improve Movie mode short of a full calibration would be to go to the picture options, turn the Digital Clean View to off or low, turn MPEG Noise Filter off, turn Auto Motion Plus off, and experiment with changing Warm2 to Warm1. The DCV set to low did seem to reduce graininess without glaring consequences, though purists would want to turn it off. Optimal AMP settings seemed to depend on the source material; 1080P/24 Blu Ray looked great with Custom settings of Blur Reduction 10 and Judder Reduction 1 (0-2 OK), though later when I viewed cable content the most natural motion by far was with AMP turned off. I turned AMP off for mixed Blu Ray and cable TV content. Neither Warm2 nor Warm1 will likely be perfect before calibration. Warm2 will be measurably closer, though it still may look worse than Warm1, which errs in a more palatable direction.

Although the technically correct sharpness setting is around 0, I found that a setting of 10-20 eliminated a slightly soft look to cable content without causing much edge enhancement.

Movie mode’s default contrast setting of 90 causes the 10 point white balance control to be progressively displaced, with lower intervals matching but higher intervals not adjusting the brightness range specified. For example, with contrast at 90, interval 80% of the white balance actually adjusts 87%. The contrast must be at 100 for no displacement. However, setting contrast at 100 causes full brightness colors to be reproduced at a lower luminance than darker colors. Reducing the contrast to 85 eliminated the color gamut luminance issue, though it caused 10 point displacement and reduced contrast ratio. Contrast calibration can therefore be a bit of a balancing act.

I found another balancing act in the setting of the global color control. Normally, that control would just be left at default, and the CMS adjustment would be used to calibrate the hue, saturation, and luminance of the primary and secondary colors. Surprisingly, I found that starting the CMS adjustment with a lower global color setting reduced the gamut luminance dropoff noted above, though it would then cause a discontinuity between full purity colors and paler colors, making color shadings and skin tones too pale despite measurements indicating they should be fine.

Further complicating the calibration were the gamma and white balance shifts caused by the local dimming. It was quite challenging to get the measurements to agree with the overall look of the picture. When I initially did the calibration with the dimming turned off, the match was not what I hoped for. With the dimming on, different results will be obtained depending on the type of measurement windows or fields used. Smart LED high measured differently than low or standard, with high degrading the gamma more. APL windows seemed to give the best match, though real time adjustment of the 10 point control was then thrown off by having the menu screen displayed on the screen. The best method is likely to use windows around 10% in size with a 22-25% APL surround, and not to try to do the 10 point adjustment in real time but rather do a lot of hopping in and out of the menu. Because of these calibration challenges, the JS9500 ended up taking much more time to dial in than usual.

Samsung has for years made available to calibrators two additional picture modes called CAL-DAY and CAL-NIGHT, which could be activated in the service menu. However, up until the JS9500, these modes have been plagued with bugs, such as carrying over the 10 point adjustments from day mode to night mode and vice versa, not applying all the advanced settings to the Smart Hub even when instructed to do so, etc. Happily, these issues have been remedied in the JS9500, and the modes can be used as true day and night calibration modes.

I looked in the service menu for any controls that might be helpful in remedying any of the calibration challenges such as dynamic color settings or similar, but found nothing of interest in the service menu beyond activation of the day and night modes.

With a 1080i input and custom AMP settings, my Jeti spectroradiometer synced to the screen output at 119.8 Hz.

Maximum light output, with backlight at the highest setting and Smart LED at standard, was 77.9 fL with contrast at 90 and in the 80-90 fL range with contrast at 100. Although I did not write it down in my notes, I also measured maximum light output with Smart LED on high and I believe the result was not much higher, the high setting dramatically boosting brightness at low backlight settings but not much if any at high backlight settings.

Contrast:

Using custom APL “torture test” windows (50% size, 99% APL), I measured the following worst case scenario contrast ratios:
Smart LED off: 1843:1 (45/.024 fL); Smart LED low and standard: 3935:1 (45.2/.011 fL) Smart LED high: 3940:1 (77/.0195 fL). Turning Smart LED to high was like turning on a brightness turbocharger, though it did not increase the contrast ratio.
Using 10% size 25% APL windows, which will approximate real content, gave the following results:
Smart LED low and standard: 15456:1 (43.1/.0028fL); Smart LED high: 16058:1 (73.6/.0046 fL).
Using full fields or conventional windows, the contrast ratio was immeasurable since the dimming made the blacks perfectly black.

Uniformity:

Screen uniformity was evaluated with full fields at black, dark (10-25% brightness), and mid-bright (50-100% brightness) picture levels.

With Smart LED off, black uniformity was poor, with obvious clouding in several areas. With dark content, it was fair on the right side with a bright area extending several inches from the edge and a slightly darker area right in from that before it became good in the center. It was then fairly good on left side, with a less noticeable bright area at the edge. With mid to bright content, it was fairly good, with just barely noticeable color shifts of green and pink across the screen, and a minor small dark area in the middle right edge.

With Smart LED on standard, the uniformity was the same as above with mid to bright content. Dark uniformity was good, with just minor problems along the right side.

After calibration:

Unfortunately, I did not get to view Ultra HD or HDR content on the JS9500 at this time, but I will edit this post when that opportunity occurs.

With the calibration finally done, viewing HD content in a dark room, the JS9500 had excellent pop and depth, far beyond what can be achieved with edge lit LEDs. Video motion was very good. Some blooming was visible in very dark scenes and credits, however.

I had to wonder, is the Quantum Dot technology really a big deal with normal HD content? Probably not, though there were some color characteristics that were different than previous Samsung LEDs in minor ways.

Regardless, skin tones looked very good; they were rich and realistic without making everybody look like they had chronic sunburns. In fact, that richness and realism extended to all colors.

The JS9500 displays a beautiful picture with HD content, though there are other displays that can make the same claim. While I liked the image a lot, I am not about to crown it the best display of all time; at least not until I get to evaluate it with some quality UHD and HDR content. For now, I’ll say the JS9500 is good enough to make me very eager to push it to it’s limits when appropriate content becomes available.
So if I understand you well, when using the local dimming either on low or on standard, the contrast ratio is not as bad as expected. Is that it? It even seems quite impressive.
sandman8989 is offline  
post #627 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 02:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Above videos look like a JS9000 not the JS9500 which has the ridged silver back.


I also would like to see how the new JS9000 series compares to the HU9000. They should be comparing curved to curved really.
Lucy J is offline  
post #628 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 07:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
westa6969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From Michigan now Retired to Naples, FL
Posts: 7,233
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 400 Post(s)
Liked: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dprojector View Post
One can say,what's the point in using 4k material when the majority is HD as Ken mentioned earlier!
though,I tend to disagree with this, a 4K set should be calibrated and judge by using 4K material.we don't use a 91 octane fuel to test a 95 octane engine,this is not the way to discover it's potentials.
I agree and pointed this out during last years shootout at VE as a serious shortcoming - I viewed the entire presentation and there was no comparison using UHD Source and it doesn't make sense that we assume that every panel is equal/static with UHD as if upconversion is equal among all. That makes no sense and when your comparing flagships and to deny their primary selling feature and to ignore it makes no sense. At least they could dedicate a quarter of the shootout to the primary reason consumers are doling out the bucks for these flagships. I sincerely hope Robert and his expert presenters can generate comparisons of UHD and HDR this year in 2015 and tell us how good UHD looks on that plasma.

Also, among all the discussions as to lack of HDR I've yet to see anyone recognize the fact that last year Disney invented a new technique to treat/remaster film with HDR via what they call Tone Mapping and either they can license and share the process for financial gain. There's a lot going on behind the scenes to promo the growth of HDR and 4K. I would have thought Sony would've promo'd the Masters as 4K and then the NFL/NCAA as that is how HD made it's mark.

Realize the Vizio P saves one thousands but I've yet to be WoWed by a Vizio in-store audition - rather bland/boring compared to the stunning Samsung 65JS9000 or the Sony X950B. Perhaps my BB simply sabotages the Vizio's but I'm seeing nothing that makes me reach for my wallet even if it saves me thousands. Sorry Vizio Fans.
timc1475 likes this.

Samsung 75HU8550w/SEK-3500-UHDVideoPk, 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Philips Folio Soundbar
XBoxOne/360, FPS's Borderlands 1/2, EDF 2017/2025, Halo's

Last edited by westa6969; 04-03-2015 at 07:42 AM.
westa6969 is offline  
post #629 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 08:35 AM
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,246
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3935 Post(s)
Liked: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I agree and pointed this out during last years shootout at VE as a serious shortcoming - I viewed the entire presentation and there was no comparison using UHD Source and it doesn't make sense that we assume that every panel is equal/static with UHD as if upconversion is equal among all. That makes no sense and when your comparing flagships and to deny their primary selling feature and to ignore it makes no sense. At least they could dedicate a quarter of the shootout to the primary reason consumers are doling out the bucks for these flagships. I sincerely hope Robert and his expert presenters can generate comparisons of UHD and HDR this year in 2015 and tell us how good UHD looks on that plasma.

Also, among all the discussions as to lack of HDR I've yet to see anyone recognize the fact that last year Disney invented a new technique to treat/remaster film with HDR via what they call Tone Mapping and either they can license and share the process for financial gain. There's a lot going on behind the scenes to promo the growth of HDR and 4K. I would have thought Sony would've promo'd the Masters as 4K and then the NFL/NCAA as that is how HD made it's mark.

Realize the Vizio P saves one thousands but I've yet to be WoWed by a Vizio in-store audition - rather bland/boring compared to the stunning Samsung 65JS9000 or the Sony X950B. Perhaps my BB simply sabotages the Vizio's but I'm seeing nothing that makes me reach for my wallet even if it saves me thousands. Sorry Vizio Fans.

The one thing I hate about the vizio is that the colours blur in motion they leave a trail. The way the handle the warranty turns me off you have to ship it to them smh. The set gets bright though but lack of 3D took Vizio off my list.
player002 is offline  
post #630 of 13046 Old 04-03-2015, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
eclipsegt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 120
I am so behind on this thread its not even funny (I used to visit at least twice a day). So please forgive me if these questions have already been asked but:

1. Has there been any word on the life expectancy of Quantum Dots?

2. Supposedly this TV puts a pseudo HDR effect on non native HDR content. Can this be disabled? Also, does this have any strikingly noticeable effect (positive or negative)?

3. Does this TV come with any sort of "UHD Video Pack" like the HU9000 did? Also, does said pack include HDR graded content such as the Life of Pi movie?

Thanks
eclipsegt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
js9000 , js9500 , suhd

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off