After a week with a 4k TV - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by j_blow View Post
Ha. Well, I'm looking to get a bigger set and don't want to go back to a smaller one because I made a bad decision.
Why not get 2 TVs a 4k and regular hdtv
then at Costco for example where you have a 90 day return policy?

You will have a lot of time to decide what you like.

You can only do so much reading and researching online.
Ultimately you have to go and buy the TV and use it in real life.

If I were you I would get a 4k, because it is new and unknown
and using it is the only way to truly know if it will work for you.
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post #182 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 11:18 AM
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Interesting idea. I'm incredibly lazy do that's pushing it. I'd be unlikely to take one back even if it sucked so buying one knowing I'm taking one back from the start seems like extra work. Seems like a good idea for some though.
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post #183 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
"For us to even contemplate a whole channel in 4K...is (difficult). There are simply not enough eyeballs out there to make a business case," Roberts said, according to Advanced-Television.com.
But they're eyeballs with deep pockets.

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post #184 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniperslayer View Post
regardless, thats like saying DVD aint better quality it's like an upconverted VHS.. the Signal is a better version of it's predecessor, period. Also the channels and signal i'm speaking of was not, and continues NOT to be strictly VOD PPV.. i know for a fact golf channel has a 1080p signal they broadcast for major events.

Watch Marco Polo on netflix through their regular non-UHD section, then switch to the UHD version, it's literally night and day, especially scenes where it's cut tight, you're not seeing individual pores etc. with the non-UHD version.

Argue technical details all day long, the bottom line is the signal is an improvement whether it's the "1080p" over a 720i, etc.

Honestly, unless you have a 4k TV, it's irrelevent to argue the difference because almost to a T, everyone who has the new 4K sets basically comes to the same conclusion, it's a better image.
Are you basically saying that with a 4K TV - - 1080I/720P looks better? Because of upscaling?

Or, are there are more pixels with a 4K TV (smaller pixels) with a plain old HD signal versus watching on a 1080P HDTV (non 4K?)

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Yes to the upscaling.

In the owners thread for the XBR there are plenty of us who have been raving about sports broadcasts etc that look absolutely fantastic when upscaled. This is with the TV doing the upscaling as well not a receiver etc. To be noted
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post #185 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 12:15 PM
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Yes to the upscaling.

In the owners thread for the XBR there are plenty of us who have been raving about sports broadcasts etc that look absolutely fantastic when upscaled. This is with the TV doing the upscaling as well not a receiver etc. To be noted
If this is actually true then 4K is truly revolutionary. Because its been known for a long time that its always best when the resolution of the display device matches the resolution of the programming source. Now we are saying that upscaling (pixels "made-up" and inserted into the image) by a 4K display looks better than the original unadulterated image. Amazing!
And note that the resulting upscaled image contains 3 "made-up" pixels for every "real" pixel.

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post #186 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post
If this is actually true then 4K is truly revolutionary. Because its been known for a long time that its always best when the resolution of the display device matches the resolution of the programming source. Now we are saying that upscaling (pixels "made-up" and inserted into the image) by a 4K display looks better than the original unadulterated image. Amazing!
And note that the resulting upscaled image contains 3 "made-up" pixels for every "real" pixel.
if you wanna put it like that, than yes. a blu ray will look better on a top end 4k set than ANY 1080 LED set. slam dunk. this is a combination of panel technology combined with processor technology as well. there is not a 1080P led tv than can match the sony XBR 950b 4k tv playing a blu ray. do you really wanna dispute that?

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post #187 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 12:43 PM
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if you wanna put it like that, than yes. a blu ray will look better on a top end 4k set than ANY 1080 LED set. slam dunk. this is a combination of panel technology combined with processor technology as well. there is not a 1080P led tv than can match the sony XBR 950b 4k tv playing a blu ray. do you really wanna dispute that?
Oh no, not at all. That's why it's sooooo amazing. The Blu-ray is putting out ~2 million picture elements, and the display is showing ~8 million picture elements. Therefore it's "making up" three fourths of the total image that your eye sees. And yet it looks "slam dunk" better.

To anyone interested in a Google Chromebox or Chromebook..
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post #188 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post
If this is actually true then 4K is truly revolutionary. Because its been known for a long time that its always best when the resolution of the display device matches the resolution of the programming source. Now we are saying that upscaling (pixels "made-up" and inserted into the image) by a 4K display looks better than the original unadulterated image.
Yes, well here is what is wrong with the idea that we must never make up new pixels that weren't seen by the camera or weren't transmitted in the signal. Consider a ball flying through the air which in the video is represented by a series of images at 1/60 sec intervals. A faithful rendition of the signal will display 60 images of the ball in slightly different positions, but if the display device interpolates and approximates 60 additional intermediate images to give 120 images per second, that's just a lie, isn't it? Because how do we really know what the ball was doing? Maybe in its flight it actually vanished 60 times per second, and those interpolated frames are false to fact. Fabrications!

If our goal is a faithful rendering of natural scenes, we ought to give some thought to what nature is like. In the case of a ball moving smoothly through space, the image with interpolation will be more realistic. But maybe in other cases where flying balls actually do move in jerks, the image with interpolation will be less realistic. Whether interpolating gives a more realistic or a less realistic view, on balance, will depend on whether the natural scenes we tend to watch have more smooth motion than jerky motion.
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post #189 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 01:00 PM
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Yes, well here is what is wrong with the idea that we must never make up new pixels that weren't seen by the camera or weren't transmitted in the signal....
While what you're saying is true, making up "some" pixels "sometimes" to facilitate motion is (to me at least) quite different than making up 75% of the pixels on the screen 100% of the time. Looking at it another way, your 65" 4K TV (when upscaling 1080 programming) contains only a 32" HDTV (surface area) of real image spread throughout the screen. The rest is filled-in by the TV itself.

To anyone interested in a Google Chromebox or Chromebook..
Be aware that these boxes run a variant of Linux and DO NOT support HDCP!!!
This means no support for HD on most streaming services. I wish I would have known this beforehand....

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post #190 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 01:07 PM
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Interesting thoughts
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post #191 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 01:10 PM
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Thanks for the thread. I spent enough time going pixel for pixel on 1080, so I'll wait for a real source for 4K....

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post #192 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 01:30 PM
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Setting aside arguments about the capability of infrastructure delivering 4k down the pipe, is anyone actually shooting anything, e.g. movies or tv shows, in 4k? because if not, what source material will there ever be other than taking a film and doing a 4k transfer?

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post #193 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 01:35 PM
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the pictures dont show motion blur, but some people are under the impression that cable tv does not look good on 4k LED tvs compared to 1080P LED tvs, i disagree after having 1st hand experience with both. i have seen some bad LED tvs, but i think they are going in the right direction. i dont see any blurs or panning issues when i watch sports on the best channels, it seems FOX always looks crappy, but when i watch ESPN or TNT sports it looks very 4k-ish so i have no doubt the 2015 tvs will be a big improvement.

just to stir up the pot, my buddy that sold me my tv that is a manager at ABC Warehouse told me that a few months ago his samsung rep told him that samsung is secretly working on a 4K plasma, but he(the rep) wasnt supposed to tell anybody its supposed to be a big secret. it could come out at the end of this year or be displayed at CES next january.
Where is that "shut up and take my money" jpeg?

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Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Setting aside arguments about the capability of infrastructure delivering 4k down the pipe, is anyone actually shooting anything, e.g. movies or tv shows, in 4k? because if not, what source material will there ever be other than taking a film and doing a 4k transfer?
I know for a fact that @Ken Ross shoots a ton of 4k footage
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I know for a fact that @Ken Ross shoots a ton of 4k footage
Um... he's one of the users here, right? Not sure that is going to be that much of an incentive for me.
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post #196 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 03:00 PM
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Well its a lot more content than you'll be able to play on your new HDR tv And I know for a fact he doesn't like HDR on his cameras so you aren't going to even get that amount of footage available.
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Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Setting aside arguments about the capability of infrastructure delivering 4k down the pipe, is anyone actually shooting anything, e.g. movies or tv shows, in 4k? because if not, what source material will there ever be other than taking a film and doing a 4k transfer?
No.

No one is shooting anything even in 1080p. No big network TV shows. No cable network TV shows. No sports on any channel. So even the FHD 'revolution' is still nowhere close to being complete.

And even if (huge IF) any of the above started to film in 1080p, it would then take a massive infrastructure project for cable/satellite providers to begin providing 1080p content. They simply lack the necessary bandwidth to provide a clean signal. As it is, current 720p/1080i signals are compressed junk.

That's why this leap to 4K hardware is absolutely meaningless to the common consumer. The general public is more than satisfied with their 720p and 1080i feeds. And as many network broadcasters continue to say, they're not going to feel obligated to cater to the TV hardware industry marketing machine.

Whatsmore, the trend of consumers cancelling their cable/satellite services altogether continues to grow. And such consumers are doing so NOT because their providers aren't providing a 1080p or 4K signal, but because the current 720p/1080i prices are already too high.

So for every 0.05% outlier consumer who talks about how incredible it is to watch 30 second youtube videos in 4K, or how amazing it will be to re-watch the same movies over and over again on a 4K blu ray player, there's 99.95% of consumers who will never bother with such things.
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post #198 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 04:08 PM
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if thats the case you might wanna stay away then from a 4k OLED tv.

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Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Setting aside arguments about the capability of infrastructure delivering 4k down the pipe, is anyone actually shooting anything, e.g. movies or tv shows, in 4k? because if not, what source material will there ever be other than taking a film and doing a 4k transfer?
me and a few other friends have been shooting 4k footage at 30FPS with the GoPro Hero4 black.

Was pretty disapointed they only went to 30FPS but it's nice for footage like up at the cabin, fishing, just doing "slower" things with friends. For any action like snowmobiling, dirt biking, etc. i'm still shooting 1080P at 120FPS
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me and a few other friends have been shooting 4k footage at 30FPS with the GoPro Hero4 black.

Was pretty disapointed they only went to 30FPS but it's nice for footage like up at the cabin, fishing, just doing "slower" things with friends. For any action like snowmobiling, dirt biking, etc. i'm still shooting 1080P at 120FPS
Still, that's pretty cool, and I applaud you for giving it a go.

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post #201 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Setting aside arguments about the capability of infrastructure delivering 4k down the pipe, is anyone actually shooting anything, e.g. movies or tv shows, in 4k? because if not, what source material will there ever be other than taking a film and doing a 4k transfer?
All 2014 original series lineup from Amazon is shot and streamed in 4K to Samsung UltraHD TVs.
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post #202 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 05:47 PM
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Last year would have been pretty bad as almost all of the new TV's would not have been able to handle 4K blu ray content or any of the spec's of UHD phase 1. This year you can buy TV's that will be able to handle future formats and spec's we actually know about that should make today's TV's still relevant in 5+ years.

It would have been much worse to buy a 4K or 1080P TV last year since they didn't have HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2/18GBPS and no chance to do HDR.

You should rephrase that to "handle to full potential of 4K bluray" last years 4K sets, will be able to play 4K movies, just not in their whole glory, HDR etc. people might get confused. I don't know about 5years, that's pushing it, next year there will be something better like every year. One connect box is just a scam for people to spend more money in my opinion, thinking it will improve their picture.

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Pioneer elite Kuro for the last 5 years. Doesn't hold a candle to the XBR850B.

So your saying the XBR850b is so much better than your Elite Kuro?

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post #203 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 06:10 PM
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Last year would have been pretty bad as almost all of the new TV's would not have been able to handle 4K blu ray content or any of the spec's of UHD phase 1. This year you can buy TV's that will be able to handle future formats and spec's we actually know about that should make today's TV's still relevant in 5+ years.

It would have been much worse to buy a 4K or 1080P TV last year since they didn't have HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2/18GBPS and no chance to do HDR.

You should rephrase that to "handle to full potential of 4K bluray" last years 4K sets, will be able to play 4K movies, just not in their whole glory, HDR etc. people might get confused. I don't know about 5years, that's pushing it, next year there will be something better like every year. One connect box is just a scam for people to spend more money in my opinion, thinking it will improve their picture.

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Pioneer elite Kuro for the last 5 years. Doesn't hold a candle to the XBR850B.

So your saying the XBR850b is so much better than your Elite Kuro?
Yes. Quite a bit so Id say.

The Kuro has an amazing picture absolutely. It's served me well and I got an excellent deal on it when I purchased it or else I probably wouldn't have spent the money I had at the time on such a set. It's now my office TV with the 850B as our main living room set. Essentially was in the market for a new TV as we had moved into a new place and was originally going to go with a 1080p set but with much research ended up with the XBR and an excellent one at that in terms of panel uniformity, Lack of flash lighting, banding, etc which quite a few with the same set ended up with.
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post #204 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Setting aside arguments about the capability of infrastructure delivering 4k down the pipe, is anyone actually shooting anything, e.g. movies or tv shows, in 4k? because if not, what source material will there ever be other than taking a film and doing a 4k transfer?

Actually I do believe quite a few of the netflix series are done in 4k. And I think I read breaking bad was shot in filmed so it was transferred over to 4k. Same goes for some older movies that were on film and being mastered in 4k but transfered back to 1080p for bluray

http://www.webpronews.com/netflix-al...ay-end-2014-01

Looks like Better Call Saul is being shot in 6k raw

http://www.red.com/news/better-call-saul-premiere
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post #205 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 06:27 PM
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Yes. Quite a bit so Id say.

The Kuro has an amazing picture absolutely. It's served me well and I got an excellent deal on it when I purchased it or else I probably wouldn't have spent the money I had at the time on such a set. It's now my office TV with the 850B as our main living room set. Essentially was in the market for a new TV as we had moved into a new place and was originally going to go with a 1080p set but with much research ended up with the XBR and an excellent one at that in terms of panel uniformity, Lack of flash lighting, banding, etc which quite a few with the same set ended up with.

That's great you find it better, you are the first and only person I have read in these forum that has said that. A lot of folks have had problems with uniformity, clouding, flash lighting, banding, etc. exchanging set after set to find a good one. Glad you got a good one.

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post #206 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 06:31 PM
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Yea, purchased on December 20th it was a November 2014 build so that might have somthing to do with it.

Quite a few people in the XBR owners thread had the kuro as well prior to their upgrade
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post #207 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 07:01 PM
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I ran a Sammie 6302, 8550 side by side with duals display from the oppo.
With dvds the 6302 was more forgiving for blacks. Men in black was the movie.
Since I generally give away the dvd in a multipack set I have very few to choose from.
Men in black, night at the museum and gravity. The 8550 was much easier to watch and the picture was much sharper.

Monsters Inc. no contest, the 6302 looked like it was the dvd cut compared to the blu-ray on the 8550.

1080p is sufficient, but if you're frequenting this forum, when has sufficient been good enough.

I was using monoprice redmere cables.
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post #208 of 298 Old 04-01-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bruinsrme View Post
I ran a Sammie 6302, 8550 side by side with duals display from the oppo.
With dvds the 6302 was more forgiving for blacks. Men in black was the movie.
Since I generally give away the dvd in a multipack set I have very few to choose from.
Men in black, night at the museum and gravity. The 8550 was much easier to watch and the picture was much sharper.

Monsters Inc. no contest, the 6302 looked like it was the dvd cut compared to the blu-ray on the 8550.

1080p is sufficient, but if you're frequenting this forum, when has sufficient been good enough.

I was using monoprice redmere cables.
you can run the blu ray to 2 different tvs with the oppo? i have an oppo. and i also still have my old F7100 in the closet. i could easily do a side by side.

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post #209 of 298 Old 04-02-2015, 09:52 AM
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I love the 4k debate, is it better, that depends on each individual's preference. Recently, it has become time to replace some older TVs in our house. More than a year ago, we replaced a 42" 8 year old 1080P LCD with a 60" Vizio M Series. We decided it was a little too early for 4k, and the TV was going in our game room where we watch movies and play video games. This last December, we replaced an 7 year old 1080P 40" Samsung with a 50" Vizio P series. This TV was in our bedroom. Now the TVs they replaced were much older, but the improvements were drastic. We were so happy with the 4k in the bedroom, that we replaced the 4 year old LED LG in the living room with a same size 4k LG. Sure, the only content we really see in native, if you can call it that is what we can stream from Amazon and Netflix, but compared to the TVs that were there before, even our Bluray movies look better. Now the technology they replaced was certainly much older, with the exception to the living room, but we are very happy with our purchases. It is not practical for me to go out and replace the gameroom TV with a 4K right now, but that does not mean that we cannot enjoy the other televisions we have. Sure we could have replaced the TVs with 1080P TVs and maybe saved some money. Would we enjoy them as much, maybe. This has and always becomes a waiting game, could we have waited longer for 4k to roll out? How long? We felt the itch to upgrade, and right now, I feel like it was the time to make the jump to 4k with the budget that we set and how long we hold on to our TVs. When these TVs get replaced, it will probably be a newer and different technology, and at that time, I will buy what I feel is the sweet spot in terms of quality, technology and price. I would never let my mother in law buy a 4k TV, since she refuses to even get any kind of HD content. I have friends who refuse to spend more than $500-$600 on a TV, so 4k is not an option for them either. I also would not replace a 1-2 year old TV with a 4k TV. I know 4k blurays will probably be out of my reach when they first are released, and maybe not compatible with my current TVs, but I tried to put myself in a position to make that jump when they are at the price where I see value in making the jump. This is all I can really ask, it all takes time. My wife just recently let me retire our HD DVD player and collection. Well, her player from before we met, and our combined collection. Should we have waited for that technology to be decided before jumping up from DVD? If so, we could have missed a few years of HD movie goodness. We invested in both and made the jump pretty early. I feel like that is what we are doing now. Buy what you think fits you best and enjoy. Stick with it until you find something better and go with that.
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post #210 of 298 Old 04-02-2015, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniperslayer View Post
Yes. Quite a bit so Id say.

The Kuro has an amazing picture absolutely. It's served me well and I got an excellent deal on it when I purchased it or else I probably wouldn't have spent the money I had at the time on such a set. It's now my office TV with the 850B as our main living room set. Essentially was in the market for a new TV as we had moved into a new place and was originally going to go with a 1080p set but with much research ended up with the XBR and an excellent one at that in terms of panel uniformity, Lack of flash lighting, banding, etc which quite a few with the same set ended up with.
How does the X850B compare with Samsungs 4k?
I read you can turn off 4k upscaling?
If so, are there some situations where 1080p looks better than upscaled content?
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