Official Vizio 2015 "E" series owners thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 1393 Old 07-30-2015, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
I can see changes (brightness shift) when I move as little as a foot off dead center on some material. Much over two feet it's very noticeable.
Seriously? I am at least a foot off center from any viewing position. Maybe I am just not as critical as some when it comes to local dimming, viewing angle, lag etc.

If you look at the Rtings site, most VA displays have an average viewing angle of about 19 degrees. The E-series Vizio is better than most at 21 degrees. From my rough measurements, mine is quite watchable at about 25 degrees, nowhere near the viewing angle of my plasma but sufficient. If you want wider viewing angles, you need to move to an IPS display, but then you lose black levels. LCD sets are trade offs. Your only alternatives are plasma (if you can find one) or OLED (if you can afford one), For now, I will enjoy my reasonably priced TV until the newer technologies sort out and prices drop.
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post #332 of 1393 Old 07-30-2015, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, extremely serious.
And yes, I have been to RTings site before many here knew about it and have had a running e-mails conversation with him for the past year or so. The number of degrees stated is based on his determination. Admittedly, I don't know what that is. I don't think it was discussed. I will say, a choice of better material for the test would show the problem up even better.
Just what type of program material are you watching?

Views less than 10 degrees off center are below of the equivalent of a dark, gray flat field with settings optimized for regular viewing. Admittedly, this was the worst example of the sets I demoed, probably due to these being edge lit.
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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #333 of 1393 Old 07-30-2015, 06:52 PM
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Just wanted to chime in and mention that trying to find issues is different from the normal viewing experience.
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post #334 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I surely didn't have to 'find' this, it hits you square on. The examples are to 'clearly' show the problem for those who couldn't see it (and to make up for the loss of clarity displaying screen shots in on a forum).

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #335 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
I surely didn't have to 'find' this, it hits you square on. The examples are to 'clearly' show the problem for those who couldn't see it (and to make up for the loss of clarity displaying screen shots in on a forum).
Those images look awful, I'm glad my set doesn't suffer anywhere nearly as bad as that one from small angles. If mine looked like that I'd have returned it by now. 11 feet back and 4 feet from mine and it still looks great, if there are issues, at least on my set it's hardly noticeable. I see the largest change when I move somewhere in between 6 and 7 feet off center.

Obviously your settings can also make a difference as well as current room conditions. I've viewed mine under many different conditions over the past 2 or 3 weeks, with a lot of late night Dexter viewing, which has many various scenes. Granted this was 1080i broadcast quality source.
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post #336 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 08:46 AM
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...Your best bet is to go into a store with a tape measure and look at the set at your extremes. 8 feet is a little on the close side for a 1080p set but 8.5-9" should be OK.
Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. That's a good idea to just check it out in a store. Most of the seating positions are (mostly considerably) further back, there's just one at the end of a side couch that's around 8 feet away. Thus my dilemma about whether it's worth sacrificing that spot (it's a long room but not particularly large) somewhat to get a better viewing experience from the others.

When I last did go check out TVs at Costco I was mostly horrified by how bad they all looked. The Vizios were especially washed-out, but when showing sports they all (including Samsungs, though maybe not quite as bad) had extreme pixelization, blur, disappearing footballs, etc. Didn't look nearly as bad with their other canned content.

I was probably standing too close in many cases, so I look forward to going back with a tape measure. And I recognize that a Costco warehouse floor is not ideal viewing conditions, and that the TVs probably weren't particularly well calibrated. Interesting enough viewing angle was way better than what I'd supposed based on all the comments on the subject. Maybe I'm just not that sensitive to slight color/intensity shifts.
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post #337 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 08:52 AM
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On another note, I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on either an E65-C3 or an E60-C3. After monitoring deal sites for a few weeks I haven't seen much in the way of discounts for those two, and since they're already at such attractive prices I feel pretty good about proceeding. My question is with regards to vendor recommendations: Is there any reason to prefer Amazon vs Costco vs Best Buy? I've heard good things about Costco's policies, but they don't offer free delivery and my car size might be a problem. Best Buy has a small discount on the 60" and delivers free. Amazon's delivery seems a little slow, and returns could be a hassle. Anything else I'm missing?

Last edited by SlipperyJim; 07-31-2015 at 09:04 AM. Reason: modified to say *free* delivery
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post #338 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SlipperyJim View Post
Is there any reason to prefer Amazon vs Costco vs Best Buy? I've heard good things about Costco's policies, but they don't offer free delivery and my car size might be a problem. Best Buy has a small discount on the 60" and delivers free. Amazon's delivery seems a little slow, and returns could be a hassle. Anything else I'm missing?
I am a Costco Executive member but bought my 70" from Best Buy. Costco was $20 cheaper and I would get 2% back from Costco plus 1% on my American Express. Costco gives an additional 1 year warranty.

Best Buy delivered, unpacked and hooked mine up at no additional charge. I got $25 in rewards from them to use on something I do not need or want. I paid with Discover and should get 5% cashback from them as I bought through Discover Deals. Discover adds 1 year to the manufacturer warranty.

As much as I like Amazon, and I would save sales tax, I would not order a TV from them unless it were hundreds of dollars cheaper.

Cost wise, it is a wash. At least with Best Buy, if it did not work, they would load it back on the truck and I would not have the return hassle.
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post #339 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by golfster View Post
I am a Costco Executive member but bought my 70" from Best Buy. Costco was $20 cheaper and I would get 2% back from Costco plus 1% on my American Express. Costco gives an additional 1 year warranty.

Best Buy delivered, unpacked and hooked mine up at no additional charge. I got $25 in rewards from them to use on something I do not need or want. I paid with Discover and should get 5% cashback from them as I bought through Discover Deals. Discover adds 1 year to the manufacturer warranty.

As much as I like Amazon, and I would save sales tax, I would not order a TV from them unless it were hundreds of dollars cheaper.

Cost wise, it is a wash. At least with Best Buy, if it did not work, they would load it back on the truck and I would not have the return hassle.
Since I couldn't fit anything in my car bigger than a 50" I plan on going with Best Buy for all the reasons that you mentioned. Use an Amex get an extra year warranty too.
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post #340 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 11:36 AM
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Thanks golfster and also lancers! That's exactly the sort of info/opinions I wanted to hear. I was leaning towards Best Buy as well, it just felt weird because normally it's one of the last places I'd go to buy anything. But the free shipping and on-site check really are very compelling, and as you say the cost is a wash across the board anyhow. Good call on the Amex.

Now the only obstacle remaining is to make the agonizing E60 vs E65 call. I keep hoping for more reports, but I can only handle our current 32" for so long...
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post #341 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Those images look awful, I'm glad my set doesn't suffer anywhere nearly as bad as that one from small angles.
Put a dark gray, flat field up and move a foot or two off center and tell me the same thing.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #342 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 02:38 PM
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Since I couldn't fit anything in my car bigger than a 50" I plan on going with Best Buy for all the reasons that you mentioned. Use an Amex get an extra year warranty too.
Right. My Chase Visa, American Express and Discover all offer this feature so I use whichever has the best rewards at the time. I had occasion to use the warranty coverage once on a laptop computer that went bad after 13 months and the mfg warranty had expired. I had to supply a repair estimate, a copy of the warranty, a copy of the original receipt and a copy of the charge statement when that purchase occured. Discover sent me a check for the repair amount which nearly covered a new computer which is the way I opted. I have, and would suggest that you all make copies of those documents and file them for easy retrieval in case you need them.
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post #343 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SlipperyJim View Post
Thanks golfster and also lancers! That's exactly the sort of info/opinions I wanted to hear. I was leaning towards Best Buy as well, it just felt weird because normally it's one of the last places I'd go to buy anything. But the free shipping and on-site check really are very compelling, and as you say the cost is a wash across the board anyhow. Good call on the Amex.

Now the only obstacle remaining is to make the agonizing E60 vs E65 call. I keep hoping for more reports, but I can only handle our current 32" for so long...
Viewing angle limitation is the reason I chose to mount mine on a full motion wall mount. Can pull it out almost 2 feet. Obviously extremely limited if it's sitting in a cabinet or what not.

On the plus side the mount was 80 bucks on amazon and installation was a breeze. Took about an hour.

I purchased mine from best buy as well. First purchase from best buy in years.
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post #344 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 05:11 PM
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Viewing angle limitation is the reason I chose to mount mine on a full motion wall mount. Can pull it out almost 2 feet. Obviously extremely limited if it's sitting in a cabinet or what not.

On the plus side the mount was 80 bucks on amazon and installation was a breeze. Took about an hour.
Nice! How far back do you sit?
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post #345 of 1393 Old 07-31-2015, 07:25 PM
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Nice! How far back do you sit?
About 10.5 feet give or take a few inches.

This is the mount I bought. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001LL5JDA/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1438395795&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=VideoSecu+Articulating +Full+Motion+TV+Wall+Mount&dpPl=1&dpID=41uYt0zhC-L&ref=plSrch

Little stiff at first. I bought another for my bedroom TV. Seems to be a good unit.

Edit: guess I fail at forum linking from my phone.
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post #346 of 1393 Old 08-01-2015, 05:39 AM
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I connected my new E55-C2 via my wifi to get the firmware update (which, oddly, took almost a week before it updated) and now I'd like to disconnect it but I can't seem to find any such option to do so. How would one go about that? Thankye.
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post #347 of 1393 Old 08-01-2015, 07:53 AM
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I connected my new E55-C2 via my wifi to get the firmware update (which, oddly, took almost a week before it updated) and now I'd like to disconnect it but I can't seem to find any such option to do so. How would one go about that? Thankye.
Other than a factory re-set, you can change the ssid, or the password.

I had the same problem when I was using cell hotspots, tv kept connecting, even when I didn't want it to.

Uplinker
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post #348 of 1393 Old 08-01-2015, 08:05 AM
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Picture Mode: Custom*(starting point was calibrated dark)
Auto Brightness Control: Off
Backlight: 60
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 75
Color: 45
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced Picture submenu---
Color temperature: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Clear Motion: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off
Reduce Block Noise: Off
Game Low Latency: Off
Picture Size & Position: [no change]
Film Mode: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

---Picture Mode Management submenu---
Color Tuner:
Red [Hue, Saturation, Brightness]: 0, 0, 0
Green: 10, 0, -1
Blue: -6, 0, 0
Cyan: -2, 0, 0
Magenta: 4, -15, 0
Yellow: -7, -10, 7

Red offset: 0
Red gain: -3
Green offset: 0
Green Gain: 0
Blue offset: -1
Blue gain: 1

11-point white balance:
[Gain amounts for red, green and blue]
5%: 0, 0, 0
10%: 1, 0, -5
20%: 0, 0, -4
30%: 0, 0, -2
40%: -2, 0, -6
50%: -2, 0, -4
60%: -6, 0, -8
70%: 0, 0, -3
80%: 0, 0, -5
90%: 5, 0, 0
100%: 0, 0, 0
Just plugged these settings in on my e55-C1. They look pretty good. Did you use a meter to do your calibration?
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post #349 of 1393 Old 08-01-2015, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by hcour View Post
I connected my new E55-C2 via my wifi to get the firmware update (which, oddly, took almost a week before it updated) and now I'd like to disconnect it but I can't seem to find any such option to do so. How would one go about that? Thankye.
Why do you not want it connected? Mine does not even show up on the network if the TV is off-unlike my Fire TV.
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post #350 of 1393 Old 08-01-2015, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nywe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian s View Post
Picture Mode: Custom*(starting point was calibrated dark)
Auto Brightness Control: Off
Backlight: 60
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 75
Color: 45
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced Picture submenu---
Color temperature: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Clear Motion: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off
Reduce Block Noise: Off
Game Low Latency: Off
Picture Size & Position: [no change]
Film Mode: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

---Picture Mode Management submenu---
Color Tuner:
Red [Hue, Saturation, Brightness]: 0, 0, 0
Green: 10, 0, -1
Blue: -6, 0, 0
Cyan: -2, 0, 0
Magenta: 4, -15, 0
Yellow: -7, -10, 7

Red offset: 0
Red gain: -3
Green offset: 0
Green Gain: 0
Blue offset: -1
Blue gain: 1

11-point white balance:
[Gain amounts for red, green and blue]
5%: 0, 0, 0
10%: 1, 0, -5
20%: 0, 0, -4
30%: 0, 0, -2
40%: -2, 0, -6
50%: -2, 0, -4
60%: -6, 0, -8
70%: 0, 0, -3
80%: 0, 0, -5
90%: 5, 0, 0
100%: 0, 0, 0
Just plugged these settings in on my e55-C1. They look pretty good. Did you use a meter to do your calibration?
Yes. I used an I1pro profiled to an id3
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post #351 of 1393 Old 08-01-2015, 10:07 AM
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Yes. I used an I1pro profiled to an id3
The only adjustment I made was to the contrast. 75 was too high on my set. It was crushing the whites, it really showed up while watching hockey. I lowered it to 55 and it looks much better.
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post #352 of 1393 Old 08-02-2015, 10:37 AM
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About 10.5 feet give or take a few inches.

This is the mount I bought. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001L...C-L&ref=plSrch
Cool! May just pick me up one of those as well. Thanks.
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post #353 of 1393 Old 08-02-2015, 10:56 AM
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Got us an E65-C3 yesterday. The thing looks amazing. I'm terribly impressed with the clarity, contrast, and lack of blur and local dimming artifacts, and the viewing angle is more than adequate for our side couch and chair. It appears to be a remarkable TV for $1k, a really stellar value. Haven't calibrated colors yet, but we're not as sensitive as some.

The input lag is definitely there though. Playing around with our new Wii U there was a small but noticeable (and a little bit irritating) delay between sound on the gamepad and the TV, when for instance a voice is supposed to come simultaneously from both. Game mode seemed to reduce but not eliminate it. However while actually playing games I didn't really sense a reaction delay, which is in line with others' experiences. It might throw off rhythm games some though. I'd like to try to measure it at some point. I suspect it will be in line with cnet.

Of course I haven't gotten a firmware update. It says the version is 1.0.2. Is that the latest? It would be marvelous for an update to improve the lag, but I'm not holding my breath. And I'm still satisfied regardless. Definitely not worth trying to find an alternative at this point. Great TV.
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post #354 of 1393 Old 08-02-2015, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SlipperyJim View Post
Got us an E65-C3 yesterday. The thing looks amazing. I'm terribly impressed with the clarity, contrast, and lack of blur and local dimming artifacts, and the viewing angle is more than adequate for our side couch and chair. It appears to be a remarkable TV for $1k, a really stellar value. Haven't calibrated colors yet, but we're not as sensitive as some.

The input lag is definitely there though. Playing around with our new Wii U there was a small but noticeable (and a little bit irritating) delay between sound on the gamepad and the TV, when for instance a voice is supposed to come simultaneously from both. Game mode seemed to reduce but not eliminate it. However while actually playing games I didn't really sense a reaction delay, which is in line with others' experiences. It might throw off rhythm games some though. I'd like to try to measure it at some point. I suspect it will be in line with cnet.

Of course I haven't gotten a firmware update. It says the version is 1.0.2. Is that the latest? It would be marvelous for an update to improve the lag, but I'm not holding my breath. And I'm still satisfied regardless. Definitely not worth trying to find an alternative at this point. Great TV.
As I said I had no comparison other than to my old TV, input lag seemed fine to me. That sound delay was present on any TV I ever played WiiU on, HOWEVER the TV does have a way to advance or delay audio timing, although not sure if that would work for you or not. I've said it before, I've played a few titles on it haven't really noticed a significant input lag, it's possible any present would affect twitch shooters and what not, but other than that it's pretty solid. My system information shows TV version of 1.0.12, which is rather interesting it appears your version is newer than mine somehow.

Either way enjoy the TV it really is a great looking set for it's price. After you do some more testing with it, I'd look forward to hearing more impressions of the set's quality as well as input lag.
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post #355 of 1393 Old 08-03-2015, 11:39 AM
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I'm planning on getting an E65 for my mother, but I have a concern.
She does not have wi-fi. I had originally thought I could unbox the TV in one room, plug into the internet, let the firmware update and then move it into the main room.

From my reading it sounds like Vizio's update method is crap. Updates come when and where they feel like it.
Is it true my original plan will not work? I hate the idea of her using out-of-box firmware, but it would be stupid to setup a wi-fi network just for her TV.

Suggestions?

ALSO: Is Cnet correct that nothing 60" or up has IPS panels or do I have to still check serial numbers?
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post #356 of 1393 Old 08-03-2015, 11:59 AM
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I'm planning on getting an E65 for my mother, but I have a concern.
She does not have wi-fi. I had originally thought I could unbox the TV in one room, plug into the internet, let the firmware update and then move it into the main room.

From my reading it sounds like Vizio's update method is crap. Updates come when and where they feel like it.
Is it true my original plan will not work? I hate the idea of her using out-of-box firmware, but it would be stupid to setup a wi-fi network just for her TV.

Suggestions?

ALSO: Is Cnet correct that nothing 60" or up has IPS panels or do I have to still check serial numbers?
I would just buy a cheap wireless router ($20-30 at Walmart) and set up wi-fi since she already has internet access. That will also give her access to the smart apps that are included with the TV. There is some free content like Crackle that she might use. If you have Netflix you can share it with her.
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post #357 of 1393 Old 08-03-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by golfster View Post
I would just buy a cheap wireless router ($20-30 at Walmart) and set up wi-fi since she already has internet access. That will also give her access to the smart apps that are included with the TV. There is some free content like Crackle that she might use. If you have Netflix you can share it with her.
Yeah, that sounds like I'm going to have to go that way. It's a real shame. I doubt she'd use streaming and her internet speed is probably one of the slowest there is. Then again, I don't think Crackle uses more bandwidth than 360p YouTube would.

Thanks for the response.
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post #358 of 1393 Old 08-03-2015, 01:40 PM
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I doubt she'd use streaming .
I am retired and likely order than your mom. My wife and I use Netflix and Amazon Prime videos all the time and love it, She might surprise you. It is a lot easier on this set than with a BD player or my Fire TV stick.
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post #359 of 1393 Old 08-03-2015, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by acphydro View Post
As I said I had no comparison other than to my old TV, input lag seemed fine to me. That sound delay was present on any TV I ever played WiiU on, HOWEVER the TV does have a way to advance or delay audio timing, although not sure if that would work for you or not. I've said it before, I've played a few titles on it haven't really noticed a significant input lag, it's possible any present would affect twitch shooters and what not, but other than that it's pretty solid. My system information shows TV version of 1.0.12, which is rather interesting it appears your version is newer than mine somehow.

Either way enjoy the TV it really is a great looking set for it's price. After you do some more testing with it, I'd look forward to hearing more impressions of the set's quality as well as input lag.
Messed around with it some more. In Game Mode in particular the response really does feel snappy enough, but even outside of it I have to admit it still isn't really noticeable for non-twitch games at least. Though I do still want to get some numbers, and will post if I do.

That's comforting that you've noted the Wii U gamepad sound delay on other sets. Yeah I considered messing with the Lip Sync setting (I assume that's what you're talking about as far as advancing/delaying audio timing is concerned), but then that would adjust it relative to the TV video as well, which isn't really what I'm after. But maybe advancing it just a tad would be a compromise, if it matters. Admittedly other than when that annoying robot is talking in Nintendo Land, I never notice.

My verdict so far is that I'm absurdly satisfied with it, and moreover quite pleased I got the E65 and not the E60. I'm sure the E60's a great set too, but I like that the E65 includes improved image processing options in addition to its increased (and for me, perfect) size. Especially given that if I don't want those image processing features, I can disable them via Game Mode or similar adjustments and get performance more like the E60.

As a rule I'd prefer a "dumb" TV that decouples content acquisition from display, but I must say I'm also pleasantly surprised by the interface's responsiveness and the simple quality of the apps. In particular, the bonus of being able to cast Youtube and Netflix content directly to the TV from my mobile devices as if it were a Chromecast is a fantastic and unexpected addition.

(I assume your firmware will update soon?)
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post #360 of 1393 Old 08-03-2015, 03:28 PM
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I am retired and likely order than your mom. My wife and I use Netflix and Amazon Prime videos all the time and love it, She might surprise you. It is a lot easier on this set than with a BD player or my Fire TV stick.
I don't know about that. Her technological ability is about one step above 'keep the vcr from flashing 12:00'. But you're right, I might be surprised.

That said, anyone know the VA versus IPS panel answer?
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