**OFFICIAL** 2015 Samsung 4K SUHD JS8500 Series TV Thread - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 04:26 PM
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Don't shoot me for asking this but how would you guys compare the 8500 to Vizio m70-c3.. I bought the Vizio last week but I really didn't know it was so limited I mean no web browser? I love the 70" and no flash lighting or bleeding I do notice sometimes picture is not sharp guessing cable feed or upscaling... I did notice the 8500 @ bb and the colors where great but when you get home with the TV is a whole different story aka bleeding, clouding etc. So the main question is well the 8500 drive me crazy watching sports and movies and is it worth another $800 and the loss of 5" thanks for your input
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post #932 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 04:51 PM
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Are all of the HDMI inputs 2.0?
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post #933 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 04:54 PM
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For anyone who purchased the 65" set from Crutchfield: Have you been in touch with them to find out why they are the only store not showing the price at $2,999? I noticed that even the Samsung site is showing that new price. I wonder if they are playing games because (perhaps) so many people purchased the 8500 from them and they don't want to price match until they are past the 60 days for most customers.

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post #934 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 05:56 PM
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How do you enable gamer mode to reduce input lag? I searched the user guide and menu over and over and can't seem to find it.

Last edited by madgrab; 05-24-2015 at 06:11 PM.
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post #935 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palermo22 View Post
For anyone who purchased the 65" set from Crutchfield: Have you been in touch with them to find out why they are the only store not showing the price at $2,999? I noticed that even the Samsung site is showing that new price. I wonder if they are playing games because (perhaps) so many people purchased the 8500 from them and they don't want to price match until they are past the 60 days for most customers.
bhphotovideo is still behind on price matching, too. I've heard nothing but good things about Crutchfield's customer service. I'm sure they'll make it right. Let us know how it works out.
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post #936 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by madgrab View Post
How do you enable gamer mode to reduce input lag? I searched the user guide and menu over and over and can't seem to find it.
Menu-System-General-Game Mode

You are supposed to connect the game system before placing the tv in Game Mode.
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post #937 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 09:14 PM
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I'm having a hard time deciding between the 8500 and the 9000. Now that the price difference is only $500. The only thing that makes me want the 9000 is the 8 core full 1 connect box for future upgrade-ability and better performance. But by the time you buy a new one connect box next year it'll be ~$900 more than the 8500. I don't care either way for the curve, it doesn't bother me but I don't love it. I just wish the 8500 had the full 1 connect box and the decision would be much easier.

Is the Tizen OS system reasonably responsive with the 8500? Or is it still too buggy and early to tell? Also do the flat panels typically have better uniformity/less flash lighting/bleed than the curved sets (edge lit)? I haven't been able to compare the 2 side by side as they're in separate rooms at best buy.

Help sway me to the flat side?
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post #938 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palermo22 View Post
For anyone who purchased the 65" set from Crutchfield: Have you been in touch with them to find out why they are the only store not showing the price at $2,999? I noticed that even the Samsung site is showing that new price. I wonder if they are playing games because (perhaps) so many people purchased the 8500 from them and they don't want to price match until they are past the 60 days for most customers.
Be persistent. You need to get above the phone CSR.

I called twice ( CS couldn't do anything) so I then wrote a letter via the email link to Mr. Crutchfield. Within an hour my phone rang and I was promised credit to my card for the difference!!

Bravo again to Crutchfield. They do always make it right.

Edit to add: his email link is at the bottom of a Crutchfield page.

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post #939 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCrow1994 View Post
Menu-System-General-Game Mode

You are supposed to connect the game system before placing the tv in Game Mode.
Thank you!
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post #940 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 11:01 PM
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Got a sweet deal on 65JS8500 at Fry's for $2997, tax free. I'll post some pictures from my PS4 soon...
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post #941 of 23987 Old 05-24-2015, 11:27 PM
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Wired internet connection not working.

So When my system was installed they ran a cable from my Airport extreme to JS8500. Wireless works fine but if I select a wired connection on the TV it gives the below message. Any suggestions on how to get my wired connection working?
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Samsung UN65JS8500
KDL-52XBR4
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post #942 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 12:37 AM
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Thank you. That makes things easy.

Surely a washed out picture from 2014/15 would look better than something from 2007, wouldn't it?

Again, thank you for your continued replies. After the failure of my previous purchase I feel like I'm at the end of my rope.
I can perhaps offer some more info.

If you are gaming on a console, the "washed out" aspect is completely immaterial because no console can output better than 1080p, which automatically brings the resolution of every single pixel to 1/4th what a 4k tv is capable of. If, on the other hand, you wish to game on the PC in 4k, as I do (or you just want to be able to use Windows without things feeling sluggish), this is an important issue. Rtings.com has gauged the latency of several Samsungs (not this one specifically) and the pattern is that they get ~27ms in "game mode" (washed out, though for 1080p that is irrelevant) and ~44ms in "PC mode" (4:4:4 color). 27ms is decent. In fact it's sort of my target latency, and it's essentially the latency of the 42LD450 I've been staring at for over 5 years. 44ms is bad; just being significantly better than 89ms doesn't suddenly make it acceptable. That's an entire extra frame of latency. The sensation of the mouse being on a spring will be inescapable.

All signs point to this year being not quite the right year for a 4K TV as monitor. But the 40" monitor from Pioneer has to have sent a message to TV makers: The monitors are beginning to encroach, so you'd better start addressing the needs of gamers and stop arbitrarily enforcing massive display latencies.

Certainly, though, I'd love to be proven wrong. If there's a 42+" 4k 60fps 4:4:4 TV out there that offers sub-33ms latency in said mode and doesn't look downright awful or have bizarre hidden drawbacks (like PWM issues), I may be buying sooner than I expected.
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post #943 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Colmino View Post
I can perhaps offer some more info.

If you are gaming on a console, the "washed out" aspect is completely immaterial because no console can output better than 1080p, which automatically brings the resolution of every single pixel to 1/4th what a 4k tv is capable of. If, on the other hand, you wish to game on the PC in 4k, as I do (or you just want to be able to use Windows without things feeling sluggish), this is an important issue. Rtings.com has gauged the latency of several Samsungs (not this one specifically) and the pattern is that they get ~27ms in "game mode" (washed out, though for 1080p that is irrelevant) and ~44ms in "PC mode" (4:4:4 color). 27ms is decent. In fact it's sort of my target latency, and it's essentially the latency of the 42LD450 I've been staring at for over 5 years. 44ms is bad; just being significantly better than 89ms doesn't suddenly make it acceptable. That's an entire extra frame of latency. The sensation of the mouse being on a spring will be inescapable.

All signs point to this year being not quite the right year for a 4K TV as monitor. But the 40" monitor from Pioneer has to have sent a message to TV makers: The monitors are beginning to encroach, so you'd better start addressing the needs of gamers and stop arbitrarily enforcing massive display latencies.

Certainly, though, I'd love to be proven wrong. If there's a 42+" 4k 60fps 4:4:4 TV out there that offers sub-33ms latency in said mode and doesn't look downright awful or have bizarre hidden drawbacks (like PWM issues), I may be buying sooner than I expected.
I'm not sure I'd agree 44ms is bad, but it definitely would be nice if it was in the 1-10ms range of a gaming monitor. I've only noticed a real hindrance when a displays response was over 100ms. You're probably thinking "No way" lol but even in competitive games such as CoD/BF I have never had trouble even in tournaments.

I guess I'm lucky?, or my brain has just gotten so in sync with it, that it was forced to adapt. In any case, I do hope we can get some concrete evidence of the response times from the TV when it's not in game mode preferably, as I can't stand the reduction in PQ when said mode is enabled.

I feel like as long as it's under 100ms, I could personally cope. I really do wish TV MFRS would start getting serious with that aspect for those that can't deal with it. Who knows, maybe it's a ploy to sell more monitors?
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post #944 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 03:28 AM
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I'm not sure I'd agree 44ms is bad, but it definitely would be nice if it was in the 1-10ms range of a gaming monitor. I've only noticed a real hindrance when a displays response was over 100ms. You're probably thinking "No way" lol but even in competitive games such as CoD/BF I have never had trouble even in tournaments.

I guess I'm lucky?, or my brain has just gotten so in sync with it, that it was forced to adapt. In any case, I do hope we can get some concrete evidence of the response times from the TV when it's not in game mode preferably, as I can't stand the reduction in PQ when said mode is enabled.

I feel like as long as it's under 100ms, I could personally cope. I really do wish TV MFRS would start getting serious with that aspect for those that can't deal with it. Who knows, maybe it's a ploy to sell more monitors?
Your brain will in fact "adapt" to input lag. For example, if you go from a 10ms monitor to a 40ms tv, things will be bothersome and feel sluggish at first, but you will find that if you keep playing you will start to adapt and time things without even thinking about it. Still, its a disadvantage when someone has a 30ms lead on you. While this seems minuscule, it does make a difference. The opposite can also occur, where you as used to playing on a display with higher input lag and then try to play on a lower input lag display. It will feel "off" for a bit until you adjust.
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post #945 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colmino View Post
I can perhaps offer some more info.

If you are gaming on a console, the "washed out" aspect is completely immaterial because no console can output better than 1080p, which automatically brings the resolution of every single pixel to 1/4th what a 4k tv is capable of. If, on the other hand, you wish to game on the PC in 4k, as I do (or you just want to be able to use Windows without things feeling sluggish), this is an important issue. Rtings.com has gauged the latency of several Samsungs (not this one specifically) and the pattern is that they get ~27ms in "game mode" (washed out, though for 1080p that is irrelevant) and ~44ms in "PC mode" (4:4:4 color). 27ms is decent. In fact it's sort of my target latency, and it's essentially the latency of the 42LD450 I've been staring at for over 5 years. 44ms is bad; just being significantly better than 89ms doesn't suddenly make it acceptable. That's an entire extra frame of latency. The sensation of the mouse being on a spring will be inescapable.

All signs point to this year being not quite the right year for a 4K TV as monitor. But the 40" monitor from Pioneer has to have sent a message to TV makers: The monitors are beginning to encroach, so you'd better start addressing the needs of gamers and stop arbitrarily enforcing massive display latencies.

Certainly, though, I'd love to be proven wrong. If there's a 42+" 4k 60fps 4:4:4 TV out there that offers sub-33ms latency in said mode and doesn't look downright awful or have bizarre hidden drawbacks (like PWM issues), I may be buying sooner than I expected.
The resolution has absolutely nothing to do with a washed out image. A 1080p image displayed on a 4k display should look just as good as if it were displayed on a 1080p display. Any Samsung television, other than their plasma's, looks washed out in game mode, 1080p or 4k. This year however the 4k panels are suffering from poor contrast ratios compared to the much more mature 1080p panels. My guess is poor fill rate, which is causing excess light leakage. The mix of poor native contrast with poor game mode picture processing makes the JS line look even worse than the 1080p displays.
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post #946 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 03:38 AM
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The resolution has absolutely nothing to do with a washed out image. A 1080p image displayed on a 4k display should look just as good as if it were displayed on a 1080p display. Any Samsung television, other than their plasma's, looks washed out in game mode, 1080p or 4k. This year however the 4k panels are suffering from poor contrast ratios compared to the much more mature 1080p panels. My guess is poor fill rate, which is causing excess light leakage. The mix of poor native contrast with poor game mode picture processing makes the JS line look even worse than the 1080p displays.
My bad. I had assumed that "washed out" in this case was shorthand for half-chroma. I hadn't been aware that Samsung's TVs had their own unique visual drawbacks while in low-latency mode.
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post #947 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 03:49 AM
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I'm not sure I'd agree 44ms is bad, but it definitely would be nice if it was in the 1-10ms range of a gaming monitor.
I'm still using the same TV I personally researched back in 2010. (By bringing a laptop to various retailers and testing latency and chroma.) It has about 25ms of input lag. I can feel it, but it is not distracting, and never was. It's only obvious when I move the mouse in circles and actively sense it. Less would be better, sure; it would offer that wow factor. But more would be a problem. The same kind of problem I would have if I went and bought that 40" Pioneer monitor. I would have paid $1000 on something that is, in some significant and irreversible way, inferior to what I bought half a decade ago. But more than that, I would feel the lag without having to actively hunt for it. I know this because most games actually engender their own layer of latency, meaning the responsiveness you get in straight Windows is not what you get in the game. I pick up on this right away. Some games are definitely worse than others.
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post #948 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colmino View Post
I'm still using the same TV I personally researched back in 2010. (By bringing a laptop to various retailers and testing latency and chroma.) It has about 25ms of input lag. I can feel it, but it is not distracting, and never was. It's only obvious when I move the mouse in circles and actively sense it. Less would be better, sure; it would offer that wow factor. But more would be a problem. The same kind of problem I would have if I went and bought that 40" Pioneer monitor. I would have paid $1000 on something that is, in some significant and irreversible way, inferior to what I bought half a decade ago. But more than that, I would feel the lag without having to actively hunt for it. I know this because most games actually engender their own layer of latency, meaning the responsiveness you get in straight Windows is not what you get in the game. I pick up on this right away. Some games are definitely worse than others.
Most games (street fighter being one exception), have around 100ms of latency.
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post #949 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 05:13 AM
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Overnight PRICE DROP for Crutchfield

The price dropped overnight to $2999.

So you don't have to go though all the hoops I did to get a refund. Any CSR can make the adjustment now.
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post #950 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 05:38 AM
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My bad. I had assumed that "washed out" in this case was shorthand for half-chroma. I hadn't been aware that Samsung's TVs had their own unique visual drawbacks while in low-latency mode.
This set certainly isn't "washed out" in Game mode. In fact with a little calibration it has a great picture in game mode. I liked the JS8500 a lot for gaming when I had it for a few weeks.

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post #951 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 05:41 AM
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Geez, I might have to pair this with my 10% off any item/24 mo. interest free at Best Buy and snatch one up. After being in an accident this weekend (not my fault, guy side swiped me thankfully I'm ok) I think this will be the treat I need to bring myself back up.
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post #952 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 06:16 AM
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I'm pretty sure with this TV, all the settings are available via the TV's menu system. The days of getting into the service menu via special codes are over for higher end sets like this that make their color and white balance controls readily accessible. So, if you are paranoid about losing something, ask the calibrator what settings he/she will be modifying and copy down the original values so they aren't lost. I would assume there's a reset function that restores the TV to the original settings. Don't know because I haven't bought mine yet. Still waiting for my new custom cabinet top that will fit this 65" monster compared to my 2007 vintage 40" Sony LCD TV.
Thanks, that makes me feel a bit better. I'm going to have to go through and document everything before I schedule calibration date.

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For people experiencing poor off center viewing angles...
Can anyone give me an idea of how many feet to the left or the right side of the screen and how many feet they are standing back from the TV they have to get before the picture quality noticeably degrades? What is the setting for your backlight, too? When I was checking out this TV at Best Buy, I had to get six feet to either side before I got a real drop in picture quality. I was probably standing about 6 feet back from the TV while doing this. Going from a 40" to 65" will certainly change the dynamics of my family room seating. My old Sony isn't too bad. One seat way to the right in my room is a bit wonky. I had that TV calibrated, so my backlight is set at 3 (max is 10). I bump it to 4 if the lights really bright during the day. I originally thought I'd go with an LG IPS panel TV, but I've found the 8500 to be more to my tastes when I did some viewing comparisons. How can it be worse that an 8 year old Sony?
I also experienced minimal off-axis issues when at Best Buy, so I too was surprised to see the dropoff when I got the set home. But I think lightminer might have realized that at Best Buy they don't play too many dark scenes so it may not be as noticable as a result.

My backlight is set to 8-10 (still playing around) and I can say that if I go about... 4-5 ft to the right, I see the washout of the blacks come out. It's a very narrow angle, to be sure. I might go back to Best Buy to check their set out again and see if I can pay special attention to it. That said, I haven't viewed it as a deal breaker for me. It's annoying, that's for sure, but you can easily forget about it and just enjoy the show.
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post #953 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 06:48 AM
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Could anyone chime in about ordering a set from Costco. How long does it take to get it delivered once ordered? Do they contact you on arranging a delivery date. Their white glove delivery option is $35 more. What do you get for that? And I assume if you don't like it or if there is a problem with the unit then you can return it to any Costco for a refund. I would appreciate anyone that received a unit from them via their delivery option to give me their two cents. Thanks.
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post #954 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post
This set certainly isn't "washed out" in Game mode. In fact with a little calibration it has a great picture in game mode. I liked the JS8500 a lot for gaming when I had it for a few weeks.
I agree. I haven't played many games to tweak my 8500, but I have been tweaking my PC input for movies. Game mode is not washed out at all.
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post #955 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 07:22 AM
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Does anyone know if turning the eco mode(not the auto dim due to ambient light) to LOW, increase input lag? or does it just decrease brightness without lowering other performance? I'm asking because I am coming from a Sony HX850 and I noticed that this TV has the same feature. I am only using this feature to fine tune better blacks.
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post #956 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremesniper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdonahue View Post
I'm pretty sure with this TV, all the settings are available via the TV's menu system. The days of getting into the service menu via special codes are over for higher end sets like this that make their color and white balance controls readily accessible. So, if you are paranoid about losing something, ask the calibrator what settings he/she will be modifying and copy down the original values so they aren't lost. I would assume there's a reset function that restores the TV to the original settings. Don't know because I haven't bought mine yet. Still waiting for my new custom cabinet top that will fit this 65" monster compared to my 2007 vintage 40" Sony LCD TV.
Thanks, that makes me feel a bit better. I'm going to have to go through and document everything before I schedule calibration date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdonahue View Post
For people experiencing poor off center viewing angles...
Can anyone give me an idea of how many feet to the left or the right side of the screen and how many feet they are standing back from the TV they have to get before the picture quality noticeably degrades? What is the setting for your backlight, too? When I was checking out this TV at Best Buy, I had to get six feet to either side before I got a real drop in picture quality. I was probably standing about 6 feet back from the TV while doing this. Going from a 40" to 65" will certainly change the dynamics of my family room seating. My old Sony isn't too bad. One seat way to the right in my room is a bit wonky. I had that TV calibrated, so my backlight is set at 3 (max is 10). I bump it to 4 if the lights really bright during the day. I originally thought I'd go with an LG IPS panel TV, but I've found the 8500 to be more to my tastes when I did some viewing comparisons. How can it be worse that an 8 year old Sony?
I also experienced minimal off-axis issues when at Best Buy, so I too was surprised to see the dropoff when I got the set home. But I think lightminer might have realized that at Best Buy they don't play too many dark scenes so it may not be as noticable as a result.

My backlight is set to 8-10 (still playing around) and I can say that if I go about... 4-5 ft to the right, I see the washout of the blacks come out. It's a very narrow angle, to be sure. I might go back to Best Buy to check their set out again and see if I can pay special attention to it. That said, I haven't viewed it as a deal breaker for me. It's annoying, that's for sure, but you can easily forget about it and just enjoy the show.
I haven't been able to figure out the off axis thing, but I noticed a couple things. Best Buy runs in dynamic mode and also might be in store mode. Also it seems like the more light in the room, the darker the blacks seem to appear on the TV.

I guess I have to compair the picture during an afternoon with the blinds open and then again in the evening. It's mostly the skin tones that throw me off the most.

Thank goodness it looks great from on or slightly off axis In the end it's just the limit of the panel technology, but it does seems odd how the off axis does seem better in store.
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post #957 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by prme19 View Post
I was finally able to sit down and did some initial calibrations

TV: 65 inch JS8500 Panel: THO1; Colorimeter: Colormunki Display, Software: HCFR, Discs: AVS 709, Disney WoW

Backlight 8 (38 ftL) * Ideally, it should be between 35-40 ftL if you have a light controlled room, I left mine at Backlight of 9 (42ftL) because I have a couple windows at the front and side of the TV. Backlight of 7 is only about 34 ftL
Contrast 100
Brightness 45
Sharpness 20 (preference) * It should be no more than 25% to avoid any artifacts.
Color 50
Tint 50/50

White Balance

2 Pt
R offset -14
G offset 16
B offset 8
R gain 26
G gain -14
B gain -1

10 Pt
1. 45, 28, -40
2. 4, 0, -2
3. -17, 0, 4
4. -22, 0, 0
5. -35, 0, 3
6. -42, 2, 5
7. -50, 5, 3
8. -50, 4, 3
9. -49, 1, 2
10. 0, 0, 0

Color Space: Custom * I used 100% saturation at this time, because at default settings, the colors were more closer to reference levels compared with 75% saturation, but I will also try to calibrate with 75% in the future just to compare.
Red 35 7 2
Green 34 48 7
Blue 0 7 52
Yellow 60 45 4
Cyan 27 54 62
Magenta 25 12 56

Gamma: -1
Color Tone: Warm 2
Auto Motion Plus: Clear (preference)
Smart LED: Standard
Cinema Black: On
All other dynamic settings are off

Some notes during calibration:
-As I mentioned before, factory settings are pretty good with Delta E’s 4 and below for both grey scale and colors, probably just need to adjust Gamma to -1 to bring it up close to 2.22.
-I adjusted contrast to 100 and brightness to 45 as these are the optimal settings to start calibration from.
-As others have noted earlier, there’s a green push on this set at the expense of red. To achieve proper white balance I had to crank red gain all the way up to level up with green and blue. Then from there, I adjusted the numbers down to make sure there are no white/color clipping. If one is still having problems with white balance using these method, i would suggest bringing contrast setting down as a last solution. (Thankfully, I didn’t have to)
-i haven’t tried the other dynamic settings yet, but I noted that Smart LED helps with clouding problems by dimming the backlight around bright spots of a particular scene. I may probably use this one. Cinema Black also helps, especially with letterbox movies. Black Tones help too, but be careful because you can lose details during darker scenes.
Can I borrow your white balance and color space settings? lol. I tried Eruiz's but seemed to not have enough color for what I am used to. To get the saturation that you speak of, I used native and bumped the color up a bit. One last thing, if I post my settings, can you test with your device for me? I don't have any calibration hardware or software. I think my picture looks awesome but want to see how it compares to "PROFESSIONAL" standard.
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post #958 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 07:47 AM
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Any of you order from Paul's tv?

I ordered from Amazon but the seller was Paul's TV. They've reduced the price of the TV, so I am wondering how I can get credited the difference
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post #959 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 08:12 AM
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I just ordered mine and should have this week. Excited!

Quick question from a newb. I also ordered the 4k Onkyo receiver and was thinking I just had to have one HDMI connection from TV to receiver, and then plug in all my other devices to the receiver (blu ray, cable box, etc). However I see other people on here utilizing all 4 HDMI ports to go directly from TV to their device.

Is there a specific reason for this? With my set up, it will be hard to run 4 separate cables all the way to my TV.

Thanks!
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post #960 of 23987 Old 05-25-2015, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie1892 View Post
Any of you order from Paul's tv?

I ordered from Amazon but the seller was Paul's TV. They've reduced the price of the TV, so I am wondering how I can get credited the difference
Did you try calling Amazon? If so, I'm curious what they said since it's not direct from them.
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