Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C / XBR-65X850C / XBR-75X850C owners club - Page 153 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4561 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake2163 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifichip76 View Post
I was just past the 45-day mark but BB let me choose either a new unit or a different TV. I decided to try the 55" LG OLED set (65" is just outrageous $$$). There won't be any edge bleed and the black level will be more like my plasma. I'm sure there are other issues with OLED (read that motion handling might not be great), but I'll give it a shot. I really wanted to love the Sony and liked the motion handling and the color/detail. But what you get from a $2500 LED set these days feels like a step backward from plasma.

What model Oled did you get ? And what size Sony did you have ? Are you happy with the Oled choice ?
The new 55" flat 9500 model. Seems great so far, but I'll try to post a little comparison of them. I had the 65" 850C.
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post #4562 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 12:28 PM
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New photos of the second unit. One shot of the built in YouTube app's search screen (blooming on both sides). The other shot is the evening news on live TV (blooming very visible on the right edge)

Both shots have the Cinema Pro factory settings.
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post #4563 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jquick View Post
Fix vs. hack is a matter of personal opinion, but here is mine. Crackle is a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony. They are directly responsible for the Crackle network and the app. On a freshly out-of-the-box TV the app is configured to run at boot time. On some subset of units it takes over the screen every half hour without user intervention and without the user previously opting in to that behavior. In my opinion this is crapware: it is reprehensible behavior on the part of the app developer, and of Sony who is ultimately responsible for it. I am happy to support Sony's device manufacturing by purchasing a TV to watch what I choose to watch. I am not at all pleased to be tricked or cajoled into using the app to support Crackle/Sony via advertising revenue. So, for me, preventing it from ever running is a fix. To you, who have used it and enjoyed it in the past, it is a hack. That's fine, to each their own taste. I understand your point of view. I just do not share it.

Sorry for the rant, I'm still pissed off about the slimy behavior and thus unlikely to ever deliberately run the app in the future.

As to security, yes, it did require authorization. You initiate a remote support session at your end (via Help->Contact & Support). The TV generates a 9 digit number which you give to them over the phone enabling them access to the TV configuration. You can see what the tech is doing by watching the display as they walk through the menu system. On the whole I was pleased by the experience and the ease/security balance of the implementation.
Don't take it as me arguing with you, I'm not; I'm standing up for you. It's not an opinion, that is 100% what those of us as software engineers would call a "hack" rather than fixing the actual problem. It's the whole "using a sledge hammer to drive a nail" situation. Sure, it worked, but the means to get it working were just to ... disable it. I mean, if the A/C belt in my car starts squeaking I can remove it and there will be no more squeaking, but did I really "fix" it? And now I have no A/C.

I have never experienced Crackle taking over my TV at bootup or otherwise, so I can confirm with you that what you experienced is not typical or necessary. There is some way for it to be addressed correctly without just disabling the app entirely. If you have the time/patience for it, a factory reset might be a good thing to try, though you generally shouldn't have to do that. What they really should do is make Crackle a non-system app (but it can still be pre-installed) so that we can uninstall/reinstall it and then the Crackle app can be in its own sandbox rather than be intimately tied with the OS itself.
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post #4564 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 12:42 PM
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@Sdroid

Kan inte skicka PM till dig pga "minst 15 posts för att kunna PM:a"-regeln här på AVS.

Japp, svensk. Jag postade precis två nya foton här i tråden. Det ser ut som om vi har precis samma problem...
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post #4565 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 01:25 PM
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@Sdroid

Kan inte skicka PM till dig pga "minst 15 posts för att kunna PM:a"-regeln här på AVS.

Japp, svensk. Jag postade precis två nya foton här i tråden. Det ser ut som om vi har precis samma problem...
Ok, where did you purchase your set?
After a week and a half struggle with my retailer(he got "yes" to exchange from Sony today)
Let's say he finally talked to the right person because both when I contacted Sony support and he talked to someone else they told us that the settings where off......

Anyway, this Sony person told my retailer today that I'm the second person that he knew of that had contacted they about this problem.

Are you on minhembio forum, if so, what's your nickname there?

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post #4566 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hifichip76 View Post
The new 55" flat 9500 model. Seems great so far, but I'll try to post a little comparison of them. I had the 65" 850C.

Yes that would be much appreciated. I'm in the same boat coming from a 60w850b and a 65w850c like to hear if you think it was worth the downsize for the jump in quality.

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post #4567 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 03:00 PM
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I have a suggestion for you.

I watch a mix of HD and SD video coming from one of my HDMI ports (a Tivo). The settings I prefer for Reality Creation, Contrast, and Sharpness differ depending on whether I am watching SD or HD content.

The best solution I have found for this, is to use the much maligned "Football" button. Yes, in the default configuration, engaging Football mode was a horrifying experience for me. If it is also horrible for you, just persevere. I made the settings of the Sports picture mode look like the Cinema Home mode for my starting configuration. I then tweaked the Cinema Home mode with my preferences for HD content. I configured the Sports mode for how I prefer to view SD content. Now it is just one button press to toggle between these two profiles.

If you set up one Display mode for use with BDs and the Sports mode with settings for DVDs (or vice versa) then you could use the Football button to toggle between the two modes.
THANK YOU. This was a winner of an idea. I applied it to both my BD player and Antenna (there are still SD channels out there).
All my settings are the same between Custom and Football mode now except 'Reality Creation' goes from Auto to Manual/35 and 'Digital Noise Reduction' is set to Auto.

Spent a lot of time finding the trade off. This keeps the SD from being blurry and awful but still prevents aliasing, blocking and mosquito noise.
Unfortunately streaming content can't use football mode so there's that.

Also thanks to VirtualRain: I kept the brightness at 100 but upped the Clearness from Min to 1. It's enough to knock the clouding so low I have to really be looking for it now and hopefully it will provide some deblurring along the way... not that I can see a difference there.

Oh, and I want to rescind one thing: You CAN adjust HDR mode. I paused the 'Pi' demo and all of the fine settings are still there. I set them to the same as my BD player except I can't bring myself to reduce the 100% brightness or set the Clearness to anything but Min. It seems to really work for that mode.

Edit: There is a weirdness about the HDR profile. It seems to borrow some settings from other profiles.
I use a calibrated 'Custom' profile for streaming/dlna/USB/etc. If I set the Clearness to 1, the 'HDR' profile changes from Min to 1 as well... and vice versa. That shouldn't happen in theory, but it does.

Edit 2: Ignore the above settings. SD works best with no 'Reality Creation'. It brings up all the artifacts. If you try to remove them you end up with a worse image than if you left it alone. So no RC and no noise reductions. Slightly soft, but it's standard def and doesn't look like junk.

Last edited by DoctorM; 09-28-2015 at 11:48 PM.
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post #4568 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 03:24 PM
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@Naidu - Well the issue that I referred to was fixed yesterday anyway. If you have a dual band router, try connecting on the 5ghz band (this is the first TV I've seen that can use it). It has a shorter range, but it is less crowded and better for streaming.

@virtualrain - I dispute that DVDs can't look good in 75". Our previous TV was a Mitsubishi Laservue and DVDs look fantastic; near HD quality.
I guarantee the problem is part of manufacturers' mission to poorly encode new releases and present DVDs on their TVs in the worst possible way to encourage people to transition to Blu-ray.
That said, I suppose one of the default profiles may look better for DVD... or I might go with your suggestion of a second input. My BDP has dual HDMI, it might be time to take advantage of that.

The brightness set at 100% isn't my taste, but you can't satisfy everyone in a family. Turning up the clarity might be a good answer, but even reading Rtings's explanation I still don't quite get it. It's like the worst method of deblur ever devised. Is that really all it is? Higher = less blur but lower brightness?

@Fast Fourier - The ability to present HDR in the x850c isn't necessarily hokum. The only real requirement is software capable of it and a display with the ability to reach a high level of brightness. Like TVs only reaching a percentage of Rec.2020, the percentage of max HDR brightness is also going to vary.
That said, a TV properly calibrated for a Gamma of 2.2 or 2.4 and pre-HDR standards doesn't have as wide a range of brightness. You will notice in HDR mode, this TV locks you out of many calibration settings. So yeah, your whites may be brighter, at least brighter than you'd set them yourself.

I'm curious to see something post-converted, but I suspect it is going to be as ridiculous as the spate of 3d post-conversions we had last generation of TVs. It seems a distracting gimmick that will work best for new content filmed expressly in HDR.

Btw, the FCC has drafted and started testing more advanced HDTV standards to include interactive content as well as 4k. Still, cable/satellite will no doubt be first to the party.
I agree with your statement on DVD's ... My last TV was also a LaserVue 75" and the DVD's did look great.


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post #4569 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 03:24 PM
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In 2016, when we'll be able to buy ultra-hi-def movies that are HDR-encoded, we'll see if the 850c TVs can show a better picture with this feature than with standard fare. Let's assume HDR looks great. So what will the future hold for it?


I don't know how much it will cost to add HDR to a 4k movie, but I think it will be enough that the process will be limited only to those titles that have the potential of showing strong sales. I don't see any low-budget movies getting it, or most dramas. I think the HDR treatment will be mostly for eye-candy movies, at least for a while, but how will they be priced? Will they be part of an all-inclusive package that may cost about $10 more than 1080p Blu-ray, advertising that they're HDR 4k and Standard 4k both, to justify the extra price?


What about catalog titles? Older people, like myself, absolutely will want their all-time faves in glorious 4k HDR, if it's as good as some critics claim. For me 'Ben-Hur', 'Lawrence of Arabia', '200l: A Space Odyssey', 'Doctor Zhivago' and 'The Sound of Music' would force my credit card to surrender. And a lot of us old people have a lot of money to spend. So can 4k HDR provide a convincing enough picture improvement for us to let go of our cash? It had better, because we don't like getting fooled even once, let alone twice.


So what do you think might be the future of HDR? Will it be another 3D flop, or at least a flop for the 850c? Or does it have a viable future?
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post #4570 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 04:20 PM
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This is what my 65w850c looked like with backlight on 10
Wow. I had considered returning a Samsung 7500 in favor of this set after getting two bad screens but this looks even worse and confirms its panel lottery no matter what brand. Frustrating to see such poor screen uniformity it 2500 tvs.
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post #4571 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 05:39 PM
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A few things:

Finally, HDR: I'm not lying, download this: http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=88 put it on a USB stick and stick it in your TV. You will not doubt that you are seeing HDR. I can't vouch for other sources, but that works. (The other clip from Exodus is much less impressive to my eyes.)

I found you don't PICK the HDR picture mode, it turns itself on.
I found that Exodus and Life Of Pi both looked fantastic. I was blown away by the picture in HDR. Why is that Sony Support knows less about their sets than we do? I have the xbr-75x850c and thought I'd send an email to Sony asking whether the HDMI port will be or is already upgraded to HDMI 2.0a and this is the first reply I got. This was just today by the way! Unbelievable!!!

"We hope you are doing well. We regret for the inconvenience caused.

We understand from your email that you want to know about the HDR and HDMI 2.0a features on your TV.

We are sorry to inform you that this TV will not support the HDR and HDMI 2.0a features as this features available only on X940C/X930C. If any new firmware update will supports this features in future, we will update on website. Sorry for any disappointment.

Thank you for being valued Sony customer. Have a wonderful day ahead!"


So I sent them another email asking for them to please check with a technician or engineer because I already had HDR and was just wondering about the port and whether it will be version 2.0a for playing HDR on external devices, UHD blu-rays, etc. I sent them a link to their own press release and this is the reply I got back:

"We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused.

Thank you for the information and it states that it is available in Sony Europe. The functionalities and features of the sony products will vary region to region. If we any future updates, we are happy to inform our customers. As of now HDR feature is not available for your TV in the USA. For more information, you can even contact to our phone support team. They will be happy to assist you."


So what gives??? They're correct, the press release WAS from Europe, during the IFA, but I know we now have HDR - I can see the difference. It's like night and day. It looks incredible!!! Their website still doesn't mention what's in the new firmware and these yo-yos clearly don't know what's going on either. They must have horrible communication within their own company.

Again, I only wanted to know if the x850c will play HDR from external sources through the HDMI port, as in HDMI 2.0a. Does anyone know the answer? It's clear I'll never get anywhere with Sony's Support.
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post #4572 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 08:41 PM
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I found a weird quirk I want fixed.

No matter what input I was last watching, every time I first start up the TV I'm on my YouTube account. Not the TV's menu, not my last source, YouTube. That sucks but I can find nothing to fix it.
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post #4573 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 09:38 PM
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I found a weird quirk I want fixed.

No matter what input I was last watching, every time I first start up the TV I'm on my YouTube account. Not the TV's menu, not my last source, YouTube. That sucks but I can find nothing to fix it.
I have the exact same problem. It's very annoying.
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post #4574 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 10:02 PM
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@Sdroid

Could you PM your email address, and we'll take it over there? Thanks!
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post #4575 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 10:10 PM
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@Sdroid

Could you PM your email address, and we'll take it over there? Thanks!
Pm Sent
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post #4576 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 10:26 PM
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I noticed this problem as well. To get it to start happening you start the YouTube app. From that point on every time you do the quick restart with the remote YouTube will be the first thing you see. To make it stop you can either go to the settings and kill the YouTube app or do a full reboot of the TV.

Hope that helps and hope they fix these kinds of bugs soon.
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post #4577 of 14871 Old 09-28-2015, 10:39 PM
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I noticed this problem as well. To get it to start happening you start the YouTube app. From that point on every time you do the quick restart with the remote YouTube will be the first thing you see. To make it stop you can either go to the settings and kill the YouTube app or do a full reboot of the TV.

Hope that helps and hope they fix these kinds of bugs soon.
doesn't happen for me, the tv starts where I last left it.

If I turn it off on hdmi 4 it starts there, if I turn it off on Netflix it starts there etc.

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post #4578 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 01:00 AM
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I just watched Age of Ultron in 3D and it was really dark. Has anyone else had this problem? I know 3D movies are darker in general but this was noticeable, it's not the first time I have noticed this, I tried the different default picture modes but it made no difference, is there something obvious I'm missing?
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post #4579 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 01:21 AM
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Increase backlight?
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post #4580 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 01:39 AM
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Increase backlight?
Is it lower by default in 3D mode?
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post #4581 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 03:14 AM
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I just watched Age of Ultron in 3D and it was really dark. Has anyone else had this problem? I know 3D movies are darker in general but this was noticeable, it's not the first time I have noticed this, I tried the different default picture modes but it made no difference, is there something obvious I'm missing?
Not uncommon to have to increase the brightness watching 3D. Not specifically the 850C, just in general. Usually folks have a picture mode setup for 3D movies.

Sent from my SM-N915T
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post #4582 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 03:57 AM
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Not uncommon to have to increase the brightness watching 3D. Not specifically the 850C, just in general. Usually folks have a picture mode setup for 3D movies.

Sent from my SM-N915T
Ok, good to know, thanks. Has anyone posted any recommended settings yet. I had a 46'' 2012 Bravia and never had to mess with settings so this is a first for me.
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post #4583 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 04:33 AM
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New photos of the second unit. One shot of the built in YouTube app's search screen (blooming on both sides). The other shot is the evening news on live TV (blooming very visible on the right edge)

Both shots have the Cinema Pro factory settings.
yeah thats the issue, it doesnt always translate very well when you take a photo, yours looks mild but its no doubt worse than it looks in the photo like mine was.

My 3rd Tv is due for delivery Friday. (UK)
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post #4584 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 04:42 AM
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USB Ports (75X850C)- looking at the back of the set there is 2 USB ports on the side (1,2) and a third USB port at the bottom that appears to be labelled SSUSB (?). I looked at the specs at Sony but it does not say anything about the differences between the 1,2 & 3. Thinking about downloading the HDR demo stuff mentioned here but i'm wondering at this point if I should use USB 3?
Another thing is that my TV sits between two towers and I can not get to the ports. I'm going to have to find some sort of USB male to female extension on Amazon that is what about 12" long to plug in and run down and place on my entertainment stand. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Gerry
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post #4585 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 05:52 AM
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Ok, good to know, thanks. Has anyone posted any recommended settings yet. I had a 46'' 2012 Bravia and never had to mess with settings so this is a first for me.
You lose tons of brightness with the Sony 3D glasses i have, the BT400a's, you have to cleverly dial it back in without destroying the picture. I've tried all sorts of different settings but these ork best for me in a very dimply lit room. Set this up with the lights down very slow.

use these as a base and tweak for your room lighting and TV model, sub 65 inch use edge lighting, 65 and 75 are direct back lit so there maybe differences.

switch to "game" preset (reduces cross talk for me, some people disagree but it definitely works for me, its subtle though)
Turn glasses mode to brightest (in 3D settings)
brightness - max
light sensor - off
colour 55
contrast - max
gamma - 0
black level - 32 (will be different for smaller sets that are edge lit)
black adjust - low
adv. contrast - high
colour temp - cool, (3D glasses tend to add yellow / brown tone like sun glasses, setting cool reverses this for me)
colour space - BT709
live colour - low or medium
sharpness - 50 (default)
reality creation - manual - 50 (may have to drop out of 3D to change this)
motion - off, doesn't work with Game mode anyway.


Some of these settings may seem too extreme, however these, for me, help to regain some of the white brightness you loose with the 3D glasses, its all subjective though so i'm not interested to hear if anyone disagrees
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post #4586 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mclingo McKeown View Post
You lose tons of brightness with the Sony 3D glasses i have, the BT400a's, you have to cleverly dial it back in without destroying the picture. I've tried all sorts of different settings but these ork best for me in a very dimply lit room. Set this up with the lights down very slow.

use these as a base and tweak for your room lighting and TV model, sub 65 inch use edge lighting, 65 and 75 are direct back lit so there maybe differences.

switch to "game" preset (reduces cross talk for me, some people disagree but it definitely works for me, its subtle though)
Turn glasses mode to brightest (in 3D settings)
brightness - max
light sensor - off
colour 55
contrast - max
gamma - 0
black level - 32 (will be different for smaller sets that are edge lit)
black adjust - low
adv. contrast - high
colour temp - cool, (3D glasses tend to add yellow / brown tone like sun glasses, setting cool reverses this for me)
colour space - BT709
live colour - low or medium
sharpness - 50 (default)
reality creation - manual - 50 (may have to drop out of 3D to change this)
motion - off, doesn't work with Game mode anyway.


Some of these settings may seem too extreme, however these, for me, help to regain some of the white brightness you loose with the 3D glasses, its all subjective though so i'm not interested to hear if anyone disagrees
Many thanks, I'll give these settings a try. I'm actually using the same glasses so hopefully I get a good result. Can I save these settings and access them via the action menu like the other picture modes?
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post #4587 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 06:09 AM
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Will receive my 55" today or tomorrow, really excited. Already downloaded the firmware update and a few 4K sample vids Will sure share some stuff as soon as I fiddle with it a little

"Some people see things as they are and say 'Why?'. I dream things that never were and say 'Why not?'" Bernard Shaw
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post #4588 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 06:17 AM
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Has anyone installed a softcam on this TV, like Oscam for example?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk
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post #4589 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4kfan View Post
In 2016, when we'll be able to buy ultra-hi-def movies that are HDR-encoded, we'll see if the 850c TVs can show a better picture with this feature than with standard fare. Let's assume HDR looks great. So what will the future hold for it?


I don't know how much it will cost to add HDR to a 4k movie, but I think it will be enough that the process will be limited only to those titles that have the potential of showing strong sales. I don't see any low-budget movies getting it, or most dramas. I think the HDR treatment will be mostly for eye-candy movies, at least for a while, but how will they be priced? Will they be part of an all-inclusive package that may cost about $10 more than 1080p Blu-ray, advertising that they're HDR 4k and Standard 4k both, to justify the extra price?


What about catalog titles? Older people, like myself, absolutely will want their all-time faves in glorious 4k HDR, if it's as good as some critics claim. For me 'Ben-Hur', 'Lawrence of Arabia', '200l: A Space Odyssey', 'Doctor Zhivago' and 'The Sound of Music' would force my credit card to surrender. And a lot of us old people have a lot of money to spend. So can 4k HDR provide a convincing enough picture improvement for us to let go of our cash? It had better, because we don't like getting fooled even once, let alone twice.


So what do you think might be the future of HDR? Will it be another 3D flop, or at least a flop for the 850c? Or does it have a viable future?
I would imagine that to get the best out of HDR, a movie will need to be shot with it in mind in the first place i.e., the camera is creating a composite of discrete exposures in real-time (or all of the discrete exposures are recorded and merged later). I'm sure it can be "added" to movies shot on film but can't imagine the effect would be as good. Films shot digitally, I'm not sure it could be added all that well.
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post #4590 of 14871 Old 09-29-2015, 06:34 AM
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Hey, by the way, if any of you are PC gamers:

You can sideload "Moonlight Game Streaming" (an official Android app) by downloading the APK here (non-root version): https://github.com/moonlight-stream/...droid/releases

If you have an nVidia GPU with the GeForce Experience software installed, this allows you to stream all of your PC games (yes, all, because you can also stream Steam Big Picture mode and play your entire Steam library) directly to the TV. And with the TV's native support for 360 controllers (using the dongle or wired usb) and the DS4, you can play all of your gamepad-friendly games beautifully.

With my hard-wired TV, I was playing @ 60fps with about ~21-22ms of lag. I tried out some of my indie favorites, but also "big" games like Dark Souls 2, The Witcher 3, and they played/ran beautifully. Pretty amazing to have capabilities like this baked right into the TV.
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