Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C / XBR-65X850C / XBR-75X850C owners club - Page 95 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2821 of 14940 Old 07-26-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tron49 View Post
Last night, while watching a recorded show on my DVR, a window came up over the program and said essentially… that the program “AOLon” had shut down unexpectedly and do I wish to report it or cancel. Of course, when I tried to respond to the request “REPORT or CANCEL” I could not select either buttons so I had to resort to powering down the TV. That’s when the fun began. Pressing the “Power” button for thirty seconds did nothing. Finally, pressing again for thirty seconds shut down the TV. Pressing the “Power” button again just brought me back to the same place. Finally I decided to press the “TV” button and from there I held down the “Power” button… and finally after 5 seconds the Power Shutdown (I assume reboot) occurred.
This started me thinking … and I remembered a couple of nights ago that I had opened several of the featured apps (AOLon being one of them) that these apps did not have an “exit” button and if they did, I could not select it. So after reading what Sdroid experienced I’m just wondering if some of these apps (or all of them for that matter) are not being exited properly or shut down and too many resources are being used and the TV’s CPU is being overworked.
I’m also noticing that user interface (UI) is getting very sluggish and unresponsive.
Is there something in the Android system that shows were the resources are being used and what is the best method of exiting the apps so that they aren’t running in the background?

And to "Sdroid" when you mean Netflix stutters ... do you mean the whole picture slows down and then speeds up again? How fast is your internet connection?

Bottom line, I just wonder if SONY's processor is up to the task... If it can't do games well (using its own processor) how is it going to do TV with all these apps running (unknowingly in some cases) in the background.

Android, by design, manages resources and prevents what you are worried is happening. Apps don't "exit" typically, so that you can resume them where they were, but the OS will close them if the resources are needed.

What you experienced was an actual crash of the app. There are a number of crashes present currently, you'll just have to deal with when they come up for now and hopefully they are all gone soon in an update. Each update so far has made big stability improvements.

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post #2822 of 14940 Old 07-26-2015, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wisdompaths View Post
Has anyone got a unit that doesn't have these issues of edge light bleed or DSE/banding, or do they all have issues?
I don't, I've posted many pictures. I haven't seen anyone complain of DSE on this set and very few have mentioned banding and in most cases it was a color space issue. As for what people are saying is "edge light bleed", that is something some sets seem to have, some don't, and most that do it goes away with calibration. I'm not sure it's actually light bleeding, but more likely a color shift issue that can be calibrated out or fixed in firmware.

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post #2823 of 14940 Old 07-26-2015, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wisdompaths View Post
Has anyone got a unit that doesn't have these issues of edge light bleed or DSE/banding, or do they all have issues?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
I don't, I've posted many pictures. I haven't seen anyone complain of DSE on this set and very few have mentioned banding and in most cases it was a color space issue. As for what people are saying is "edge light bleed", that is something some sets seem to have, some don't, and most that do it goes away with calibration. I'm not sure it's actually light bleeding, but more likely a color shift issue that can be calibrated out or fixed in firmware.
Keep in mind that there is a significant difference between the 55" and the 65/75" versions of these sets. The 55" is edge lit and there are definitely more uniformity issues with it than the other two.
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post #2824 of 14940 Old 07-26-2015, 09:29 PM
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Here's what I learned by re-reading rtings.com site.

They say...


Explanation: 3:2 pulldown is the process a Telecine uses to transfer 24fps film to 30fps video. Reverse 3:2 pull-down reverses this... so film that's been transferred to 30fps video will be rendered at 24fps. I have no idea what this would do to source played back at 24fps, but my observation is that it doesn't look good (objects in motion are soft). I wouldn't use this setting with 24fps source material.

I guess this might be a good setting for watching 24fps movies broadcast on cable tv?

They say...



This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Reduced duty cycle, means the backlight is on for less time (hence the darker picture), but how this is supposed to make the image look better is beyond me. Looking at their samples for each "Clearness" setting, you can see it goes from a blurred mess to more of a defined double-image. None of those look good to me except Clearness 5.

They also have a table that shows the reduction in backlight output. It's dramatic. They prefered a backlight level of 5 (I use 30-35) which produced 110 light output without Clearness. With Clearness 3+ you cannot even achieve this level of backlight output.

Testing this on my own, using "Custom" and setting "Clearness" to 3 reduces the backlight to a level that I could still mostly compensate by simply maxing the "Brightness". It eliminated a lot of the jerkiness but it was still not as good to my eyes as the "Standard" Motionflow setting. A "Clearness" of 4 reduced the backlight too low for my taste and offered no real improvement. A "Clearness" of 5 flickered obviously.

The bottom line is, I don't see this setting offering any advantage in terms of smoothing motion while maintaining sharpness.

Again, the best setting after watching the same 24fps source clips over and over again with different Motionflow settings, is still "Standard". It appears to smooth motion jerkiness associated with 24fps playback while not sacrificing sharpness on moving elements.

After some experimentation with "Custom", it seems like "Standard" is probably a 3 on "Smoothness" and "Min" on "Clearness"

Unfortunately rtings.com doesn't talk about this setting.

I'm curious what others have found with Motionflow. What are your preferred settings?
I'm quoting myself here from a couple of pages back, just to put the following in context...

In the FlatpanelsHD review, they had this to say about Motionflow...

Quote:
To improve motion resolution on X85C it is possible to activate MotionFlow and set it to “Clear”. However, this reduces brightness noticeably. In our opinion this combination presents the best compromise between motion reproduction and artefacts. Sony has – and always has had – one of the best motion processing systems. They usually don’t offer extensive adjustments options, at least compared to other manufacturers, but “Clear” is good. If you want to avoid seeing any artefacts you should instead choose “Cinema smooth 24p”, which is the most natural look, but motion resolution drops as a result – at least until movie makers start shooting in higher frame rates than 24fps.
Does motion-resolution refer to the sharpness of moving objects? This term is new to me.

It's odd that they feel "Clear" is a good compromise. I could see no benefit whatsoever to using this setting. Has anyone found this setting to be better on 24fps material? If so, how would you characterize it?

What makes me wonder if they know what they are talking about is their second choice of Cinema smooth 24p which according to rtings.com is the preferred setting for doing reverse 3:2 pulldown on 24fps content played at 30fps.

I'll ask again (probably in vein), are the various Motionflow settings documented anywhere by Sony?
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post #2825 of 14940 Old 07-26-2015, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tron49 View Post
Mine is Software version:PKG2.287.0010NAB as of 7/27/15 and mine is called "CineMotion" found under Motion in Advanced Settings.

Looks like every thing is regional.
I just checked for an update this evening and there was a firmware update. Mine now says CineMotion as well. How long that firmware update has been available is a mystery to me. I have automatic updates turned off, thinking it would pop something up and let me know if there was an update, but apparently that's not the case.
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post #2826 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 02:23 AM
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If anyone cares, here are my settings after spending a few weeks tweaking and trying a variety of different settings on my 65x850c.

I'm curious if anyone disagrees with anything, can correct any obvious mis-understandings, or just wants to chime in with an opinion

It should be noted that my sources include:
- Mac Mini PLEX HTPC for TV and Movies
- PS4 for gaming and Bluray

I don't watch Cable/Satellite/Broadcast TV.

Unless otherwise noted, settings for both sources are the same.

Picture Mode: I've compared the Standard, Cinema (Pro/Home) and Game/Graphics modes. Of course, don't be fooled by the initial settings for each one, they can all be made to look the same. However, there are some subtle differences in behaviour and the settings available. Game and Graphics mode allow you to connect a computer that outputs 4:4:4 or 24-bit RGB. You can verify this by displaying single pixel red or magenta lines (there are lots of test patterns out there). 4:4:4 will preserve these lines perfectly. It seems other picture modes covert the signal to YCbCr 4:2:0 which will cause dithering and smearing of the single pixel red or magenta lines. Unfortunately the Game and Graphics modes have limited Motionflow settings (which probably keeps input lag to a minimum) so they're not really suitable for 24fps material. The only other difference between picture modes that I could find is that "Mastered in 4K" is only available in one of the Cinema modes. Hence, I use Cinema Pro (not sure why it's called "Pro" instead of Cinema 1?) for viewing content and Game Mode for PS4 Gaming.

Auto Picture Mode: I'm not sure if this works as expected. I will experiment with this more later.

Brightness: The brightness controls the backlight level and the difference between settings is subtle. The range is not vast. The difference between 20 and 30 is not that significant. The good thing is that this setting does not affect blacks, whites, or gamma, it's simply a backlight level. So I think this really comes down to personal taste for any given ambient light level. I prefer a bright picture, so I set mine at 30.

Light Sensor: I tried this but it seemed to dim the backlight even under the brightest conditions, so it's a failure in my opinion. I've currently got it disabled.

Contrast: Max it.

Gamma: (UPDATED): A negative setting (higher gamma) will crush your blacks, increasing the setting (lower gamma) will wash out your picture, remove contrast and blow your whites. The TV appears to be set for a gamma of 2.4 (-2) which I find is too dark (can crush blacks). A gamma of 2.2 better matches the other displays in my life. So I have it set at zero and instead use Black Level to ensure shadow details are set properly.

Black Level: I spent a lot of time fussing around with this before finding the ideal setting, you may want to do the same. You can use the Black level control to determine exactly how much shadow detail you want vs how contrasty you want the image. Lower black level means darker shadows and more contrast, higher black level means more details in the shadows at the expense of a more washed out picture. To adjust black level I use a combination of test patterns (like this one) and source material (the opening scene of Transformers AoE is perfect - the opening scene of Star Wars might be another one but I don't have a copy of that film). My preferred setting for movies which offers inky blacks without crushing shadow detail, is a setting of 30. On a black level test chart, that will make 3% black barely visible (or just above "Reference Black" at about 22). For Gaming I set it at 47 which provides a bit more detail in the shadows and it doesn't compromise contrast too much since games seem to have a higher contrast ratio (dynamic range?) anyway.

Black Adjust: This is exactly the same as lowering Black Level but in bigger steps. I suggest turning this off, and just adjusting black level using the slider.

Advanced Contrast Enhancer: I think this is the good old "dim the backlight for the credits" setting. I leave it on "Low" but I've yet to see it play a role. Perhaps its improved so much since my old set that it's working and I just can't tell... that would be cool.

Color Temperture: I'll probably annoy purists on this statement, but D65 calibration is just way too warm for my liking. It's probably because on a normal day, I spend almost all my waking hours looking at a display... whether it's my 4K Dell monitors at home, my Apple Thunderbolt display at work, my MacBook laptop display, my iPad display, or my iPhone display... and ALL of them are setup from the factory to what I'm guessing is somewhere between 7000-7500K. So anyone who works with mobile devices or Apple displays is going to think 6500K is too warm. So for me, and my environment full of 7000-7500K screens, "Neutral" is perfect color temperture for the TV in my household... Whites look white just like they do on all my other displays

Color: If you're a purist, you'll probably want to set the color at 50 and ignore "Live Color" however if you like punchy color like I do, then see the next setting. (BTW, if you want more saturation, I think you get better results using "Live Color" than "Color")

Live Color: I mention this here because to my eyes, it has a huge impact on the colors of the display. Purists will probably ignore this setting, but I purchased a Triluminous display for it's vibrant colors and this setting is what seems to bring it to life. It offers Low, Medium, and High, and Low is definitely enough to get some much needed color pop. To my eyes, without Live Color, red looks kind of orange. With Live Color, reds look they way they should. Pull up a color test pattern (like this rainbow one) and see for yourself what it can do to red and magenta in particular.

Other color settings: I leave Hue alone and haven't done any advanced color temperature settings. I think copying settings from those who've calibrated their display is probably going to make things randomly worse, not better, unless every TV ships from the factory out of calibration by exactly same amount (possible, I suppose, but unlikely). Color space... Auto is probably best. It should pick sRGB/BT.709 unless the source indicates otherwise.

Sharpness: I think it's common knowledge based on reviews etc. that a setting of 50 is neither sharpness or blurring and so that's the desired setting. While sharpness may sound like a good thing, it almost immediately introduces unwanted halos around edges. If you want to sharpen some details, use the Reality Creation instead.

Reality Creation: I played around with this a lot and as far as I can tell it adjusts the amount of micro-contrast. Anyone familiar with photo post-processing knows there's edge enhancement type sharpening (the control above) and micro-contrast enhancement. This control seems to be the latter. It's more subtle and provides a more pleasing result than "Sharpness" which can quickly cause halo artifacts on edges. The best way I found to adjust this is to pause the video on a frame full of detail that is clearly in-focus and then note what it does to enhance the contrast of the details. I found setting it on Manual and maxing out the Resolution slider and then switching between "Manual" and "Off" was the best way to observe the effect. After I could see what it was doing, I adjusted the Resolution slider down until it was helping but not over-doing it. To my eyes this was about 25 on the Resolution slider. I seriously doubt that many (maybe even any?) people will see this setting make much of a difference on video unless they really start looking for it, which means the movie is horrible and you should probably watch something else.

Mastered in 4K: This appears to be a setting that can make some Sony Blurays mastered in 4K look better, but I don't own any such Blurays so I can't comment on how good this is. It's on for no good reason. (Not available in Game Mode)

Random Noise reduction: This will undo any micro-contrast addition you make through Reality Creation. It effectively blurs fine edges to eliminate noise. So if you like what Reality Creation is doing, turn this off.

Digital Noise Reduction: This is probably a great setting for crappy macro-block happy cable signals, but I don't watch cable anymore so I turn this off.

Motionflow: I've gone on at length about this here lately. I suggest reading back through the last few pages of posts from me and others on this subject if you want to learn the background. My conclusion after exhaustive testing with multiple different types of moving objects on 24fps material is the following:
- Standard is the best setting I've found. It offers smooth motion interpolation without losing much sharpness.
- Smooth overdoes it and moving things can have artifacts or look blurry
- Clear lowers the backlight and offers no visible advantage to 24fps jerky motion that I can see
- True Cinema is the worst on a 24fps source so it's a real misnomer. rtings.com mentioned that this is the setting to use for reverse 3:2 pulldown (material that was once 24fps but telecined using 3:2 pulldown to playback at 30fps). This is old-school. Maybe use it for old DVDs or movies on cable?
- Custom allows you to set your own smoothness and clearness. Standard seems to be a bit of Smoothness (2 or 3).
- Off also looks horrible on 24fps material. It's great for Gaming.

Update: I've since found this great post on Sony Motion Control Settings.

CineMotion: This was called Film Mode up until a recent firmware update. Based on the on-screen instructions this appears to help with interlaced material. I have no such material but there really is no "Off" setting as even "Off" says it's doing something. I've left this on "High" out of ignorance more than anything. I'd love a clear explanation of what this is doing.

Update: There is an explanation here but I'm not sure that helps explain it. It would be nice if Sony or someone else could offer some best-practices settings advice based on content type (24fps movies vs. TV movies vs. sports, etc.) Maybe it's worth looking at the default motion control settings in each of Sony's predefined Picture Modes (Standard, vs. Sports, vs Cinema, etc.)?

Other: The only other settings I've made (through the Home Screen Settings App) that might be worth mentioning are Dynamic Range (set to Full) and Screen (Full pixel).
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Last edited by virtualrain; 08-19-2015 at 12:12 PM.
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post #2827 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 05:01 AM
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[QUOTE=virtualrain;36058882]If anyone cares, here are my settings after spending a few weeks tweaking and trying a variety of different settings on my 65x850c.

Thanks, that was an interesting read. It will certainly help me setting up my 75x8505c when it arrives at the end of this week.
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post #2828 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
If anyone cares, here are my settings after spending a few weeks tweaking and trying a variety of different settings on my 65x850c.
This was a great writeup. Thanks for taking the time. I agree with a lot of what you said. I've been playing around a lot too and my preferred settings are very close to yours.

I've been trying to find the best motionflow settings so your comments should help me out a bit.

I like my gaming to be a little more vibrant so I turned the brightness up a bit (from my default of 20), turned color to 60 and LiveColor to medium. I'm currently playing Witcher 3 from my PC and the colors looks incredible.
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post #2829 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
If anyone cares, here are my settings after spending a few weeks tweaking and trying a variety of different settings on my 65x850c.
Thanks for sharing. I would reconsider your thoughts on the auto light sensor however, especially for dark room viewing. I have found that engaging the auto light sensor dramatically deepens the blacks. I think it's a bit of a misnomer in its name as well, as I think it does more than just dims the screen based on ambient light. I offered some of my settings a page or two back, you can just search the thread for my posts and find it easily, if you want to see how I set it up utilizing the sensor and black adjust.
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post #2830 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
If anyone cares, here are my settings after spending a few weeks tweaking and trying a variety of different settings on my 65x850c.

I'm curious if anyone disagrees with anything, can correct any obvious mis-understandings, or just wants to chime in with an opinion

It should be noted that my sources include:
- Mac Mini PLEX HTPC for TV and Movies
- PS4 for gaming and Bluray

I don't watch Cable/Satellite/Broadcast TV.

Unless otherwise noted, settings for both sources are the same.

Picture Mode: I've compared the Standard, Cinema (Pro/Home) and Game/Graphics modes. Of course, don't be fooled by the initial settings for each one, they can all be made to look the same. However, there are some subtle differences in behaviour and the settings available. Game and Graphics mode allow you to connect a computer that outputs 4:4:4 or 24-bit RGB. You can verify this by displaying single pixel red or magenta lines (there are lots of test patterns out there). 4:4:4 will preserve these lines perfectly. It seems other picture modes covert the signal to YCbCr 4:2:0 which will cause dithering and smearing of the single pixel red or magenta lines. Unfortunately the Game and Graphics modes have limited Motionflow settings (which probably keeps input lag to a minimum) so they're not really suitable for 24fps material. The only other difference between picture modes that I could find is that "Mastered in 4K" is only available in one of the Cinema modes. Hence, I use Cinema Pro (not sure why it's called "Pro" instead of Cinema 1?) for viewing content and Game Mode for PS4 Gaming.

Auto Picture Mode: I'm not sure if this works as expected. I will experiment with this more later.

Brightness: The brightness controls the backlight level and the difference between settings is subtle. The range is not vast. The difference between 20 and 30 is not that significant. The good thing is that this setting does not affect blacks, whites, or gamma, it's simply a backlight level. So I think this really comes down to personal taste for any given ambient light level. I prefer a bright picture, so I set mine at 30.

Light Sensor: I tried this but it seemed to dim the backlight even under the brightest conditions, so it's a failure in my opinion. I've currently got it disabled.

Contrast: Max it.

Gamma: The TV appears to be set for a gamma of 2.4 which is just fine. Lowering it will crush your blacks, increasing it will blow your whites. I leave this at zero and instead use Black Level to ensure shadow details are set properly.

Black Level: I spent a lot of time fussing around with this before finding the ideal setting, you may want to do the same. You can use the Black level control to determine exactly how much shadow detail you want vs how contrasty you want the image. Lower black level means darker shadows and more contrast, higher black level means more details in the shadows at the expense of a more washed out picture. To adjust black level I use a combination of test patterns (like this one) and source material (the opening scene of Transformers AoE is perfect - the opening scene of Star Wars might be another one but I don't have a copy of that film). My preferred setting for movies which offers inky blacks without crushing shadow detail, is a setting of 30. On a black level test chart, that will make 3% black barely visible (or just above "Reference Black" at about 22). For Gaming I set it at 47 which provides a bit more detail in the shadows and it doesn't compromise contrast too much since games seem to have a higher contrast ratio (dynamic range?) anyway.

Black Adjust: This is exactly the same as lowering Black Level but in bigger steps. I suggest turning this off, and just adjusting black level using the slider.

Advanced Contrast Enhancer: I think this is the good old "dim the backlight for the credits" setting. I leave it on "Low" but I've yet to see it play a role. Perhaps its improved so much since my old set that it's working and I just can't tell... that would be cool.

Color Temperture: I'll probably annoy purists on this statement, but D65 calibration is just way too warm for my liking. It's probably because on a normal day, I spend almost all my waking hours looking at a display... whether it's my 4K Dell monitors at home, my Apple Thunderbolt display at work, my MacBook laptop display, my iPad display, or my iPhone display... and ALL of them are setup from the factory to what I'm guessing is somewhere between 7000-7500K. So anyone who works with mobile devices or Apple displays is going to think 6500K is too warm. So for me, and my environment full of 7000-7500K screens, "Neutral" is perfect color temperture for the TV in my household... Whites look white just like they do on all my other displays

Color: If you're a purist, you'll probably want to set the color at 50 and ignore "Live Color" however if you like punchy color like I do, then see the next setting. (BTW, if you want more saturation, I think you get better results using "Live Color" than "Color")

Live Color: I mention this here because to my eyes, it has a huge impact on the colors of the display. Purists will probably ignore this setting, but I purchased a Triluminous display for it's vibrant colors and this setting is what seems to bring it to life. It offers Low, Medium, and High, and Low is definitely enough to get some much needed color pop. To my eyes, without Live Color, red looks kind of orange. With Live Color, reds look they way they should. Pull up a color test pattern (like this rainbow one) and see for yourself what it can do to red and magenta in particular.

Other color settings: I leave Hue alone and haven't done any advanced color temperature settings. I think copying settings from those who've calibrated their display is probably going to make things randomly worse, not better, unless every TV ships from the factory out of calibration by exactly same amount (possible, I suppose, but unlikely). Color space... Auto is probably best. It should pick sRGB/BT.709 unless the source indicates otherwise.

Sharpness: I think it's common knowledge based on reviews etc. that a setting of 50 is neither sharpness or blurring and so that's the desired setting. While sharpness may sound like a good thing, it almost immediately introduces unwanted halos around edges. If you want to sharpen some details, use the Reality Creation instead.

Reality Creation: I played around with this a lot and as far as I can tell it adjusts the amount of micro-contrast. Anyone familiar with photo post-processing knows there's edge enhancement type sharpening (the control above) and micro-contrast enhancement. This control seems to be the latter. It's more subtle and provides a more pleasing result than "Sharpness" which can quickly cause halo artifacts on edges. The best way I found to adjust this is to pause the video on a frame full of detail that is clearly in-focus and then note what it does to enhance the contrast of the details. I found setting it on Manual and maxing out the Resolution slider and then switching between "Manual" and "Off" was the best way to observe the effect. After I could see what it was doing, I adjusted the Resolution slider down until it was helping but not over-doing it. To my eyes this was about 25 on the Resolution slider. I seriously doubt that many (maybe even any?) people will see this setting make much of a difference on video unless they really start looking for it, which means the movie is horrible and you should probably watch something else.

Mastered in 4K: This appears to be a setting that can make some Sony Blurays mastered in 4K look better, but I don't own any such Blurays so I can't comment on how good this is. It's on for no good reason. (Not available in Game Mode)

Random Noise reduction: This will undo any micro-contrast addition you make through Reality Creation. It effectively blurs fine edges to eliminate noise. So if you like what Reality Creation is doing, turn this off.

Digital Noise Reduction: This is probably a great setting for crappy macro-block happy cable signals, but I don't watch cable anymore so I turn this off.

Motionflow: I've gone on at length about this here lately. I suggest reading back through the last few pages of posts from me and others on this subject if you want to learn the background. My conclusion after exhaustive testing with multiple different types of moving objects on 24fps material is the following:
- Standard is the best setting I've found. It offers smooth motion interpolation without losing much sharpness.
- Smooth overdoes it and moving things can have artifacts or look blurry
- Clear lowers the backlight and offers no visible advantage to 24fps jerky motion that I can see
- True Cinema is the worst on a 24fps source so it's a real misnomer. rtings.com mentioned that this is the setting to use for reverse 3:2 pulldown (material that was once 24fps but telecined using 3:2 pulldown to playback at 30fps). This is old-school. Maybe use it for old DVDs or movies on cable?
- Custom allows you to set your own smoothness and clearness. Standard seems to be a bit of Smoothness (2 or 3).
- Off also looks horrible on 24fps material. It's great for Gaming.

CineMotion: This was called Film Mode up until a recent firmware update. Based on the on-screen instructions this appears to help with interlaced material. I have no such material but there really is no "Off" setting as even "Off" says it's doing something. I've left this on "High" out of ignorance more than anything. I'd love a clear explanation of what this is doing.

Other: The only other settings I've made (through the Home Screen Settings App) that might be worth mentioning are Dynamic Range (set to Full) and Screen (Full pixel).


Great Explanation ... will add to my library of settings gleaned from this Forum. THANKS!
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post #2831 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 08:37 AM
 
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Ughh...I am so anxious...still waiting for my shipment, its been 10 days now.. WTF!!!
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post #2832 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
Brightness: The brightness controls the backlight level and the difference between settings is subtle. The range is not vast. The difference between 20 and 30 is not that significant. The good thing is that this setting does not affect blacks, whites, or gamma, it's simply a backlight level. So I think this really comes down to personal taste for any given ambient light level. I prefer a bright picture, so I set mine at 30.

Light Sensor: I tried this but it seemed to dim the backlight even under the brightest conditions, so it's a failure in my opinion. I've currently got it disabled.
If you prefer the back light all the way up then light sensor can probably only make it dimmer. Makes sense for you to disable it in your situation. On a side note I am amazed at the preference differences for backlight on this set. You have it on 30 and others are using 5.

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Screen (Full pixel).
IMO, this is the first setting to change when you get the set installed. Good reminder to everyone and didn't want it to get lost in your larger message.
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post #2833 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 08:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tampabuc View Post
This is so sad...We tried to warn you from the beginning!

Imagine for just a moment how much better your wallet, free time, and overall well being would be without being tied to this POS TV. Like a boat anchor around your neck.

I'm still stuck with one (65X850C) and I fear that Sony will kill off the TV division entirely before myself and all others will get any resolution.

Stay far, far away...
Sounds like someone is a little unhappy...LMAO...
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post #2834 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 09:37 AM
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It's odd that they feel "Clear" is a good compromise. I could see no benefit whatsoever to using this setting. Has anyone found this setting to be better on 24fps material? If so, how would you characterize it?
I've got my white and black levels so perfect I don't even want to attempt to play around with it if it lowers the brightness.
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post #2835 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 09:44 AM
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Thanks for this link:
http://tft.vanity.dk/
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post #2836 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:05 AM
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[QUOTE=virtualrain;36058882].....

Black Level: I spent a lot of time fussing around with this before finding the ideal setting, you may want to do the same. You can use the Black level control to determine exactly how much shadow detail you want vs how contrasty you want the image. Lower black level means darker shadows and more contrast, higher black level means more details in the shadows at the expense of a more washed out picture. To adjust black level I use a combination of test patterns (like this one) and source material (the opening scene of Transformers AoE is perfect - the opening scene of Star Wars might be another one but I don't have a copy of that film). My preferred setting for movies which offers inky blacks without crushing shadow detail, is a setting of 30. On a black level test chart, that will make 3% black barely visible (or just above "Reference Black" at about 22). For Gaming I set it at 47 which provides a bit more detail in the shadows and it doesn't compromise contrast too much since games seem to have a higher contrast ratio (dynamic range?) anyway.

Black Adjust: This is exactly the same as lowering Black Level but in bigger steps. I suggest turning this off, and just adjusting black level using the slider.

Advanced Contrast Enhancer: I think this is the good old "dim the backlight for the credits" setting. I leave it on "Low" but I've yet to see it play a role. Perhaps its improved so much since my old set that it's working and I just can't tell... that would be cool.

Color Temperture: I'll probably annoy purists on this statement, but D65 calibration is just way too warm for my liking. It's probably because on a normal day, I spend almost all my waking hours looking at a display... whether it's my 4K Dell monitors at home, my Apple Thunderbolt display at work, my MacBook laptop display, my iPad display, or my iPhone display... and ALL of them are setup from the factory to what I'm guessing is somewhere between 7000-7500K. So anyone who works with mobile devices or Apple displays is going to think 6500K is too warm. So for me, and my environment full of 7000-7500K screens, "Neutral" is perfect color temperture for the TV in my household... Whites look white just like they do on all my other displays.....

I just want to give a shout out to Virturalrain for the GREAT link to test patterns included in his post... Thanks!!


Last edited by tron49; 07-27-2015 at 10:06 AM. Reason: too many the's
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post #2837 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalto View Post
If you prefer the back light all the way up then light sensor can probably only make it dimmer. Makes sense for you to disable it in your situation. On a side note I am amazed at the preference differences for backlight on this set. You have it on 30 and others are using 5.
Yeah, I would expect that if I set the Brightness to 30, that during the day, that the light sensor would set the brightness to 30, and that at night, or in low light, it would set it to something less. As far as I can tell, it always sets it to something less than my setting regardless of ambient light. This offers no value to me as a feature - I'd rather set brightness myself. However, I don't want movies or TV during the day so I don't need a fluctuating back light. However, I do need to play around with it a bit more before discounting it completely.

As for preferences in backlight... the range in output brightness between 5 and Max is not that huge. Rtings.com measured the light output at 5 as 100.8 cd/m2 vs. 282.2 cd/m2 for Maximum. And this is a perfectly good range for a display. My desktop computer displays are set for around 250 cd/m2, I run my TV at around 180 cd/m2. But any setting between 100 and 300 cd/m2 is fine depending light level and preference. It's not like one is zero and the other is retina burning.
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post #2838 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:24 AM
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Thanks for this link:
http://tft.vanity.dk/
Yeah, the cool thing about those test patterns is that they are easily navigable using a browser on any smart device... HTPC, PS4, even the Android TV.
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post #2839 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Itwillneverend View Post
Sounds like someone is a little unhappy...LMAO...
Dude has been making posts like that since his alleged X850C was still within the return window. He never returned it and just periodically comes in here to tell everybody how horrible the TV is and how much he hates it, even though he kept it and owns it (allegedly). I've asked him to post pictures of his problems making sure that he puts his avs username somewhere in the picture so we know they are real. Otherwise, I just assume he's got some chip on his shoulder or is a Samsung employee or something. No idea what that guy's motivation is for making these types of posts.
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post #2840 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:31 AM
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Yeah, I would expect that if I set the Brightness to 30, that during the day, that the light sensor would set the brightness to 30, and that at night, or in low light, it would set it to something less. As far as I can tell, it always sets it to something less than my setting regardless of ambient light. This offers no value to me as a feature - I'd rather set brightness myself. However, I don't want movies or TV during the day so I don't need a fluctuating back light. However, I do need to play around with it a bit more before discounting it completely.

As for preferences in backlight... the range in output brightness between 5 and Max is not that huge. Rtings.com measured the light output at 5 as 100.8 cd/m2 vs. 282.2 cd/m2 for Maximum. And this is a perfectly good range for a display. My desktop computer displays are set for around 250 cd/m2, I run my TV at around 180 cd/m2. But any setting between 100 and 300 cd/m2 is fine depending light level and preference. It's not like one is zero and the other is retina burning.
That's why I was saying I think the term "Light Sensor" is a misnomer, I believe it is doing something else related to black levels. I keep it on for all of my dark room viewing because I find that it dramatically deepens the black levels. I do not notice any loss of detail with it on or off with my settings. Sometimes I turn it off when I want extra pop, but mostly keep it on because it improves my picture quality.

Sony and their "secret" video processing features
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post #2841 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tampabuc View Post
This is so sad...We tried to warn you from the beginning!

Imagine for just a moment how much better your wallet, free time, and overall well being would be without being tied to this POS TV. Like a boat anchor around your neck.

I'm still stuck with one (65X850C) and I fear that Sony will kill off the TV division entirely before myself and all others will get any resolution.

Stay far, far away...
Hey Samsung TROLL, go away!!!
Itwillneverend likes this.

Last edited by Stevez176; 07-27-2015 at 10:43 AM.
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post #2842 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 10:47 AM
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I realized I never posted an update about my issues with my 65" X850C. I got my replacement X850C and I have none of the issues that I had in the previous unit.

What was amusing is that the people at Best Buy customer service just turned it on and they didn't see any of the issues I saw because they were looking at the start up screen. They put it as Open Box - Like New. I feel bad for the poor soul that buys that TV.
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post #2843 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 03:04 PM
 
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Dude has been making posts like that since his alleged X850C was still within the return window. He never returned it and just periodically comes in here to tell everybody how horrible the TV is and how much he hates it, even though he kept it and owns it (allegedly). I've asked him to post pictures of his problems making sure that he puts his avs username somewhere in the picture so we know they are real. Otherwise, I just assume he's got some chip on his shoulder or is a Samsung employee or something. No idea what that guy's motivation is for making these types of posts.
Yea, that is what I figured or something along those lines and I was also thinking, so return it if you are so unhappy, why come here and beat it up. SMH...

Anyways..... Good news for me is that I just scheduled delivery of my 75" for this Friday, so I will be taking the day off for this. I can't wait!!!
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post #2844 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 03:59 PM
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Yea, that is what I figured or something along those lines and I was also thinking, so return it if you are so unhappy, why come here and beat it up. SMH...

Anyways..... Good news for me is that I just scheduled delivery of my 75" for this Friday, so I will be taking the day off for this. I can't wait!!!
AWESOME my friend, you've been waiting for so long. Enjoy!

Sent via Tapatalk on the Oneplus One
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post #2845 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 04:03 PM
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I too have noticed same problems. Some units have worse than others. Exchanging one more time. If same severity of problems, thinking about exchanging for samsung js8500. Any thoughts? Biggest concern about samsung is problems with flashlighting. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
No edge lit TV is perfect, or close to being perfect. If you do not want these types of issues FALD unit is the answer or a OLED. However these sets have issues as well, usually smaller issues though......
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post #2846 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 06:15 PM
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Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV won't sync video from Marantz SR-5008 when I select BluRay as source.

Wondering if anyone else has had issues getting HDMI from a Marantz receiver to work with 4K TVs--and solved the problem.

I have had all kinds of trouble getting a picture to sync over HDMI through my Marantz receiver with the new Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV.

Only my Apple TV seems to pass through without issue.

I had to manually configure my Comcast cable box to output 1080. After changing config from auto, I was finally able to get a picture.

I have a Samsung BluRay player, but even after setting the SR-5008 to output 1080 instead of auto, I still can't the picture to sync. NOTE: The BluRay works fine if I plug HDMI from the BluRay device directly to the TV. It's only when I put the signal through the SR-5008 that it fails to sync and produce a picture on the TV. If I plug and unplug the HDMI so I "reset" the devices, the picture will start to come through, then it cuts and acts like the source isn't supported from that point forward. You can watch what happens when I select BluRay as a source at
. I also purchased a new Sony BluRay player thinking my old one may be too old; however, I get the same result with the new player.

Is there an HDMI magician here? Anyone with experience getting a Marantz AVR to work with the Sony 4K TV?
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post #2847 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bbaldwin66 View Post
Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV won't sync video from Marantz SR-5008 when I select BluRay as source.

Wondering if anyone else has had issues getting HDMI from a Marantz receiver to work with 4K TVs--and solved the problem.

I have had all kinds of trouble getting a picture to sync over HDMI through my Marantz receiver with the new Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV.

Only my Apple TV seems to pass through without issue.

I had to manually configure my Comcast cable box to output 1080. After changing config from auto, I was finally able to get a picture.

Is there an HDMI magician here? Anyone with experience getting a Marantz AVR to work with the Sony 4K TV?
Try turning off the video conversion and scalar for those inputs in the receiver under the hdmi settings. They don't need to be hard set to anything in particular, just let the signals pass through unmolested.
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post #2848 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 07:39 PM
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[QUOTE=bbaldwin66;36078746]Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV won't sync video from Marantz SR-5008 when I select BluRay as source.

Wondering if anyone else has had issues getting HDMI from a Marantz receiver to work with 4K TVs--and solved the problem.

I have had all kinds of trouble getting a picture to sync over HDMI through my Marantz receiver with the new Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV.

Only my Apple TV seems to pass through without issue.

....

Have you checked your HDMI cable? I have a DENON AVR 4308Ci and it works perfectly. I would recommend a high quality HI Speed HDMI cable like a mono price (product ID: 9430).

Or a cable that is THX certified... check out KORDZ.com.

Good luck...
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post #2849 of 14940 Old 07-27-2015, 08:30 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaldwin66 View Post
Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV won't sync video from Marantz SR-5008 when I select BluRay as source.

Wondering if anyone else has had issues getting HDMI from a Marantz receiver to work with 4K TVs--and solved the problem.

I have had all kinds of trouble getting a picture to sync over HDMI through my Marantz receiver with the new Sony XBR-55X850C 4K TV.

Only my Apple TV seems to pass through without issue.

I had to manually configure my Comcast cable box to output 1080. After changing config from auto, I was finally able to get a picture.

I have a Samsung BluRay player, but even after setting the SR-5008 to output 1080 instead of auto, I still can't the picture to sync. NOTE: The BluRay works fine if I plug HDMI from the BluRay device directly to the TV. It's only when I put the signal through the SR-5008 that it fails to sync and produce a picture on the TV. If I plug and unplug the HDMI so I "reset" the devices, the picture will start to come through, then it cuts and acts like the source isn't supported from that point forward. You can watch what happens when I select BluRay as a source at https://youtu.be/JFDNh1kcUUg. I also purchased a new Sony BluRay player thinking my old one may be too old; however, I get the same result with the new player.

Is there an HDMI magician here? Anyone with experience getting a Marantz AVR to work with the Sony 4K TV?
In my setup everything goes through the AVR receiver Denon 4308ci except the 4K Sony Player and Xbox-360.

MENU of the AVR receiver

HDMI setup
i/p scaler:OFF
Color Space:RGB
RGB Range:Enhanced
Auto Lip Sync:ON
Audio:Amp
Monitor Out:Auto(Dual)
HDMI Control:Control (off)

All inputs are assigned HDMI
SAT (Dish) is input:3
Oppo DVD player is input:1

Output of AVR (monitor 1) goes to TV:1

My 4K Sony player FMP X10 is directly connected to the TV at HDMI:2

My grandsons Xbox360 is directly connected to the TV at HDMI:3

My AVR receiver is old and can’t pass through a 4k signal, therefore I direct connect the Sony 4K player.

Everything works beautifully through my Harmony Ultimate Home remote.

Hope this helps…

You should have a similar setup Menu on your Marantz since DENON and Marantz share the same technology... used to be owned by the same company I believe.

Last edited by tron49; 07-28-2015 at 07:13 AM. Reason: clarification
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post #2850 of 14940 Old 07-28-2015, 01:27 AM
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No edge lit TV is perfect, or close to being perfect. If you do not want these types of issues FALD unit is the answer or a OLED. However these sets have issues as well, usually smaller issues though......
I recall reading in the early days that the 65" and 75" 850c might be direct lit? Was that incorrect?
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