4K UHD TV 4:4:4 60Hz Capable Master List - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 163 Old 08-30-2015, 07:48 AM
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I found this on vizio's facebook page:

Stan Smyla Looking at the 43" to use as a 4K monitor on my PC. The specs say HDMI Port 5 supports UHD Video @60Hz and HDCP 2.2. Anyone know if this is with 4:4:4 chroma subsampling?
April 20 at 9:30pm

Vizio Stan - The M43-C1 does not support 4:4:4 chroma @ 60Hz in 4K. Thanks! -Randal
April 21 at 7:18am

https://www.facebook.com/vizio/photo...951637/?type=1
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post #62 of 163 Old 08-30-2015, 08:25 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken7 View Post
I found this on vizio's facebook page:

Stan Smyla Looking at the 43" to use as a 4K monitor on my PC. The specs say HDMI Port 5 supports UHD Video @60Hz and HDCP 2.2. Anyone know if this is with 4:4:4 chroma subsampling?
April 20 at 9:30pm

Vizio Stan - The M43-C1 does not support 4:4:4 chroma @ 60Hz in 4K. Thanks! -Randal
April 21 at 7:18am

https://www.facebook.com/vizio/photo...951637/?type=1
So you are going to just trust whatever some low level service person says over actual verifiable data? That is exactly what is wrong with this forum. No one wants to think for themselves or actually try anything.

It is trivial to verify this simply by putting the video card in 4:2:2 mode. You will see what the big deal with 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 mode really is.

Please note that until I switched to Windows 10 I was not presented with the option to force true 4:2:2 mode. Until I upgraded to Windows 10 there wasn't a great way to verify what 4:2:2 really looked like on my machine.
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post #63 of 163 Old 08-30-2015, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by broken7 View Post
Which cards are 2014 cards?
My understand is all the 960+ cards have full hdmi 2 support.
Anything starting with an "8" and 3 characters(ie: GTX 870).
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post #64 of 163 Old 08-31-2015, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
So you are going to just trust whatever some low level service person says over actual verifiable data? That is exactly what is wrong with this forum. No one wants to think for themselves or actually try anything.

It is trivial to verify this simply by putting the video card in 4:2:2 mode. You will see what the big deal with 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 mode really is.

Please note that until I switched to Windows 10 I was not presented with the option to force true 4:2:2 mode. Until I upgraded to Windows 10 there wasn't a great way to verify what 4:2:2 really looked like on my machine.
I can't try it because I don't have the tv in question and I'm not going to go out any buy it without knowing it will support what I want it to support. I don't have that kind of money to waste. That's why people come to this thread. I do appreciate your screen shots and testing but You say "The test patterns everyone has been using test for 1:1 pixel mapping and not 4:4:4" Do you have verifiable data for that? You claim "Vizio 4K TVs are 4:4:4 capable" it could be your particular model supports it but the one I'm looking at doesn't. Have you tested every model? I'm not an expert in this stuff so I don't trust either what " some low level service person says" or one single person on a forum saying that the test everyone else is using is flawed and that all vizio 4k tv's are 4:4:4 capable when vizio say they aren't. More information is needed.
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post #65 of 163 Old 08-31-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by broken7 View Post
I can't try it because I don't have the tv in question and I'm not going to go out any buy it without knowing it will support what I want it to support. I don't have that kind of money to waste. That's why people come to this thread. I do appreciate your screen shots and testing but You say "The test patterns everyone has been using test for 1:1 pixel mapping and not 4:4:4" Do you have verifiable data for that? You claim "Vizio 4K TVs are 4:4:4 capable" it could be your particular model supports it but the one I'm looking at doesn't. Have you tested every model? I'm not an expert in this stuff so I don't trust either what " some low level service person says" or one single person on a forum saying that the test everyone else is using is flawed and that all vizio 4k tv's are 4:4:4 capable when vizio say they aren't. More information is needed.
Do you have a 4K TV at all? Try it with your TV. Just test 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 with anything except for that test pattern. Can you see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 with your TV outside of the test pattern?

Yes definitely more information and testing is needed. However, I would trust actual verifiable data over what some unknown person says every time.

A display can fail that test pattern for a lot more reasons than just 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. If the display is not 1:1 pixel mapped, does not support the color gamut of the input, does not match the bit depth of the input source, or is 4:2:2 it will fail the test.

The issue is that you can’t determine which one of those things it is failing for or if it is failing for multiple reasons. That test pattern is designed to determine if a display can be used for critical image editing. It encompasses a lot more than just 4:2:2 chroma subsampling.
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post #66 of 163 Old 09-03-2015, 08:32 AM
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I've seen the Samsung JU6400 mentioned in the thread but its not in the list on the front page.

It definitely does 4:4:4 (through one HDMI input only) - took me a while get around to buying a suitable GPU and working out the settings to enable it, but it works
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post #67 of 163 Old 09-03-2015, 09:48 PM
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I'm interested in the JU6400, might pick one up from Costco to see. Also interested in the input lag if anyone knows?
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post #68 of 163 Old 09-04-2015, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by blah_blah View Post
I'm interested in the JU6400, might pick one up from Costco to see. Also interested in the input lag if anyone knows?
Can't post links, but if you Google "ju6400 input lag" and hit the AVS review of the 55" model it says 124ms on normal and 28ms for Game Mode

You can't use Game Mode and PC Mode (required for full 4:4:4 UHD colour) at the same time, so depends on your needs. I'm using mine as a gaming PC monitor on PC Mode - although not really a hardcore gamer so probably not as demanding as other people - and haven't had any issues
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post #69 of 163 Old 09-04-2015, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by licenced View Post
Can't post links, but if you Google "ju6400 input lag" and hit the AVS review of the 55" model it says 124ms on normal and 28ms for Game Mode

You can't use Game Mode and PC Mode (required for full 4:4:4 UHD colour) at the same time, so depends on your needs. I'm using mine as a gaming PC monitor on PC Mode - although not really a hardcore gamer so probably not as demanding as other people - and haven't had any issues
Yeah, Im looking at these sets to use as a gaming PC monitor. So basically, if I want UHD color I have to deal with bad input lag on the 6400? I was reading something about renaming an input to PC? But I take it that will disable the 4:4:4 chroma? If that's the case I may just go with the Vizio for the super low input lag and call it done. I'm not sure if the $250 price difference between the Vizio and the Samsung 6500 is worth it to me. I was hoping the 6400 would be a decent medium option that would allow [email protected] with 4:4:4. But if I'm understanding you correctly, it seems like the 6400 will have the same color issue as the Vizio if I'm running [email protected], but with worse input lag even in PC mode.
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post #70 of 163 Old 09-04-2015, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah_blah View Post
Yeah, Im looking at these sets to use as a gaming PC monitor. So basically, if I want UHD color I have to deal with bad input lag on the 6400? I was reading something about renaming an input to PC? But I take it that will disable the 4:4:4 chroma? If that's the case I may just go with the Vizio for the super low input lag and call it done. I'm not sure if the $250 price difference between the Vizio and the Samsung 6500 is worth it to me. I was hoping the 6400 would be a decent medium option that would allow [email protected] with 4:4:4. But if I'm understanding you correctly, it seems like the 6400 will have the same color issue as the Vizio if I'm running [email protected], but with worse input lag even in PC mode.
Yes, to get 4:4:4 you need to enable UHD Colour in the TV settings then change the source type (not name) to PC. This disables Game Mode. Like I say, I have no issue with lag myself - have been playing Shadow of Mordor extensively this week and am finding it fine.

Its not too hard to flip back - change the source type to something else and enable Game Mode - for a gaming session. This switches the display back to [email protected] 4:4:2 (I think, or is it 4:2:2?), which is fine for gaming and video anyway.

I've not seen the Vizio so can't give you a comparison to that, sorry.
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post #71 of 163 Old 09-04-2015, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by blah_blah View Post
But if I'm understanding you correctly, it seems like the 6400 will have the same color issue as the Vizio if I'm running [email protected], but with worse input lag even in PC mode.
Sorry, just to clarify:
- yes the 6400 can do [email protected]
- with the input type set to PC it will do it at 4:4:4, but no Game Mode
- with the input type set to something else it will do it at 4:2:2 (?) and you can use Game Mode
- switching between PC and non-PC is easy and quick to do - although I don't bother as it seems fine to me in PC mode in real world usage

Also, I'm not sure what the 'colour issue' is, unless its the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2. I find the colours on the 6400 great - an immense step up, with much better viewing angles and uniformity than the last monitor I bought (Samsung T260).
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post #72 of 163 Old 09-04-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by licenced View Post
Sorry, just to clarify:
- yes the 6400 can do [email protected]
- with the input type set to PC it will do it at 4:4:4, but no Game Mode
- with the input type set to something else it will do it at 4:2:2 (?) and you can use Game Mode
- switching between PC and non-PC is easy and quick to do - although I don't bother as it seems fine to me in PC mode in real world usage

Also, I'm not sure what the 'colour issue' is, unless its the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2. I find the colours on the 6400 great - an immense step up, with much better viewing angles and uniformity than the last monitor I bought (Samsung T260).
Thanks a lot for the input and clarification. Yeah, the color issue I was referring to was the drop from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 when in PC mode.
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post #73 of 163 Old 09-08-2015, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
Do you have a 4K TV at all? Try it with your TV. Just test 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 with anything except for that test pattern. Can you see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 with your TV outside of the test pattern?

Yes definitely more information and testing is needed. However, I would trust actual verifiable data over what some unknown person says every time.

A display can fail that test pattern for a lot more reasons than just 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. If the display is not 1:1 pixel mapped, does not support the color gamut of the input, does not match the bit depth of the input source, or is 4:2:2 it will fail the test.

The issue is that you can’t determine which one of those things it is failing for or if it is failing for multiple reasons. That test pattern is designed to determine if a display can be used for critical image editing. It encompasses a lot more than just 4:2:2 chroma subsampling.
I don't have a 4k TV at all.
Thanks for the info.
Hopefully people will test other Vizio tv's and post the results.
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post #74 of 163 Old 09-08-2015, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by subcell View Post
Achieving this with my AX800 Panasonic using the displayport of the NVidia GTX750.
Does anyone know, does displayport inherently support 4k/4:4:4/60hz?
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post #75 of 163 Old 09-08-2015, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The 70ud1u does in fact support 4:4:4 @60hz on hdmi input 3. I can only assume that the 60 would as well as the only difference is the obvious size.
Can we confirm this? I can't find this information online.
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post #76 of 163 Old 09-08-2015, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CGMneon View Post
Love this thread.
Would welcome all discussion & verification of sets.

Keeping this thread up-to-date would be a big help to those in the market for 4K televisions that want true 4:4:4 and 60Hz.
Thanks for commenting. If you would like to help, just spend some time searching the web for conformations of sets that are capable. I think the list is missing some Panasonics, but I need to figure out which ones are capable.
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post #77 of 163 Old 09-10-2015, 11:18 AM
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I dont see why would anyone want to use a 4k tv as pc display, with all the input lag issues and non gaming oriented display, non pure-pc design choices etc., when you got the Philips BDM4065UC, a 40" 4k VA @60hz, display port 1.2, any gpu capable, superb contrast ratio and black depths, no lags, and easily does chroma 4:4:4 @4k 60hz, like this test shows:

(cant post links yet, check geeks3d chroma subsampling uhd test)

I done it and can clearly see all text lines, no blurry lines whatsoever in the PNG image.

Also the price is right , I dont see anyone looking any further, such panel is for 10 years at least, definitely the upgrade of the year. Untill all the manufacturers catch up and play around with ultra wide 200hz displays, I sit and wait, nothing currently comes close in terms of all around pc display quality.
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post #78 of 163 Old 09-10-2015, 01:28 PM
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Philips BDM4065UC looks good. Does it have hdmi 2.0 ?
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post #79 of 163 Old 09-10-2015, 04:25 PM
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No it does not, hdmi only ; and it uses display port 1.2 for 4k 60hz. Not an issue for me.
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post #80 of 163 Old 09-10-2015, 06:37 PM
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I dont see why would anyone want to use a 4k tv as pc display, with all the input lag issues and non gaming oriented display, non pure-pc design choices etc., when you got the Philips BDM4065UC, a 40" 4k VA @60hz, display port 1.2, any gpu capable, superb contrast ratio and black depths, no lags, and easily does chroma 4:4:4 @4k 60hz, like this test shows:

(cant post links yet, check geeks3d chroma subsampling uhd test)

I done it and can clearly see all text lines, no blurry lines whatsoever in the PNG image.

Also the price is right , I dont see anyone looking any further, such panel is for 10 years at least, definitely the upgrade of the year. Untill all the manufacturers catch up and play around with ultra wide 200hz displays, I sit and wait, nothing currently comes close in terms of all around pc display quality.
The Vizio M & P series are one of the lowest input lag displays on the market for 4k. I haven't seen issues with my 65" and have had my computer hooked up and used for gaming and everyday use for the past 3 months.

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post #81 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 03:42 AM
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Well, good for you, but do you use the display up close on a desk or from a distance like a tv(65"!), where you would likely less notice issues.
I'm sure there would be other compromises for a living room oriented display, like game mode/refresh rate/image enhancements, also wouldn't the ppi be too large and text scaling issues on such size?
Otherwise, if the contrast ratio and black depths are sufficient, It could serve as a pc display but not a pure one
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post #82 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 04:11 AM
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edit: A little research shows vizio's have poor viewing angles, poor contrast, poor color reproduction, no chroma 4:4:4 @60hz, only @30Hz (and other brand TV's that do have 4:4:4 also have terrible input lag), hence blurry text, ; so unless viewed from some 50 feet distance, do not make a good pc display. Nothing to see here for me, moving along.
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post #83 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 07:15 AM
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How is the glare on Philips BDM4065UC?
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post #84 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 07:27 AM
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As you'll see in the reviews, no glare to speak of, it is although a glossy finish to make the colors pop out, but the coating is subtle and I dont have glare issues, it is not too reflective.

Also, due to it sporting 10 bit color( real 8 bit but uses frame rate control to simulate), can watch movies with MADvr renderer in exclusive mode 10 bit, the quality is superb
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post #85 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by er557 View Post
edit: A little research shows vizio's have poor viewing angles, poor contrast, poor color reproduction, no chroma 4:4:4 @60hz, only @30Hz (and other brand TV's that do have 4:4:4 also have terrible input lag), hence blurry text, ; so unless viewed from some 50 feet distance, do not make a good pc display. Nothing to see here for me, moving along.
You keep saying Vizio tvs as if they are all the same in general when that isn't the case and plenty of "research" on this forum that is dedicated to the Vizio M and P 4k displays would disprove whatever research you went to look on google. Viewing angles is about the only thing you got correct but that is irrelevant to me as I don't watch my display from an angle. Plenty of pictures to show your incorrect about the text and I sit 7 feet away and not everyone cares to have a smaller display and sit at a desk. Don't come in trying to generalize what displays do and make up your own facts.

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post #86 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 08:18 AM
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I meant the P and M series you talked about; the 65" has a different panel than the other sizes and could be better in general, but vizio is not a high-end brand to say the least. Also if you sit at such distance than you would not care about the small details that make or break pc oriented displays; heck, you won't even notice the difference between 4k and 1080p images/gaming.
Wasn't I correct when I said the P and M do not support 4:4:4 @60hz 4k and only do 30hz? so if you try the chroma test @geek s3d chroma downscaling test(a page with PNG image) you'll see some of the colored lines will not be legible to you @60hz, and 30hz is not suitable for all around use
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post #87 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by er557 View Post
I dont see why would anyone want to use a 4k tv as pc display, with all the input lag issues and non gaming oriented display, non pure-pc design choices etc., when you got the Philips BDM4065UC, a 40" 4k VA @60hz, display port 1.2, any gpu capable, superb contrast ratio and black depths, no lags, and easily does chroma 4:4:4 @4k 60hz, like this test shows:

(cant post links yet, check geeks3d chroma subsampling uhd test)

I done it and can clearly see all text lines, no blurry lines whatsoever in the PNG image.

Also the price is right , I dont see anyone looking any further, such panel is for 10 years at least, definitely the upgrade of the year. Untill all the manufacturers catch up and play around with ultra wide 200hz displays, I sit and wait, nothing currently comes close in terms of all around pc display quality.
Thanks for pointing out the Philips BDM4065UC. I was not aware of this display. Looks like it was released February 2015 and first of it's kind? Until then, the only option was 4K TV's that would do 4K/4:4:4/60, paired with certain Geforce 900 series cards for the HDMI bandwidth.

Compatibility with any displayport PC is great. Otherwise, 4K TV's are still a valid option, and sometimes cheaper. Of course you always have to consider input lag, which varies among displays. I would question the difference in contrast, blacks, "non pure-pc design choices" (whatever that means).

Also, I suspect there will be competition to the Philips in the near future. Like you said, maybe someone will offer an ultra-wide display? Matte? Curved? 8K?
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post #88 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 11:51 AM
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Of course this is possible, but in the general area of these specs I think I'm covered for the next 5-10 years upgrade wise; I would buy another and store it if I had room, just in case it breaks, like I did with some other specific equipment that no longer retails in shops.
I hardly see myself going for an even larger panel, as I work on a desk, and haven't even begun to explore the gaming potential as I have many titles sitting idle, or video potential - the upscaling quality of low def content and of course high def content is simply amazing, given the right software.
All this display really needs is gpu power, which currently I have sufficient( 2 x gtx 780ti). If set-up properly and mind the little details, It's all smooth sailing from then onwards.
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post #89 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by er557 View Post
I meant the P and M series you talked about; the 65" has a different panel than the other sizes and could be better in general, but vizio is not a high-end brand to say the least. Also if you sit at such distance than you would not care about the small details that make or break pc oriented displays; heck, you won't even notice the difference between 4k and 1080p images/gaming.
Wasn't I correct when I said the P and M do not support 4:4:4 @60hz 4k and only do 30hz? so if you try the chroma test @geek s3d chroma downscaling test(a page with PNG image) you'll see some of the colored lines will not be legible to you @60hz, and 30hz is not suitable for all around use
You mean this test where I should not see the text clearly at [email protected]?
Even though my 980ti states it is set at the color format you see.

No clue why it attaches upside down lol
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post #90 of 163 Old 09-11-2015, 07:34 PM
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GTX 960 and Samsung UN50JU6500 works at 4K UHD 3180x2160p 60hz chroma 4:4:4

I'm happy to report that GTX 960 and Samsung UN50JU6500 works at 4K UHD 3180x2160p 60hz chroma 4:4:4 for 4K Windows desktop and apps (including fine black text on white background without any color fringing).

NOTE: I had to replace more costly HDMI cables from the local electronics box store with cheaper cables from Amazon in order to get this to work reliably. With the costlier cables, usually required multiple retries (cycle power, reboot source, etc.) before HDMI handshake would be accomplished and picture would appear... once did appear, was fine. With the Amazon cables, works first time, every time, no muss, no fuss.

AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 6.5 Feet (2 Meters) Supports Ethernet, 3D, 4K and Audio Return
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4:4:4 , chroma subsampling , uhd

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