**Official** Sony X930C / X940C Owners Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 14414 Old 05-26-2015, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by unknownuser200 View Post
just seemed awfully high like u had to snap your neck back to view it. lol
Yeah. It is too high. Center of screen is around 66". I don't have a good solution because of that center speaker. I've considered moving it down somehow into the cabinet. When I built the cabinet, I didn't have that particular speaker. So that top section was much shorter.

I'm going to try to do some zone counting now. I gotta find previous posts explaining how to set up the tv for it.
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post #122 of 14414 Old 05-26-2015, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by frankpc3 View Post
Yeah. It is too high. Center of screen is around 66". I don't have a good solution because of that center speaker. I've considered moving it down somehow into the cabinet. When I built the cabinet, I didn't have that particular speaker. So that top section was much shorter.

I'm going to try to do some zone counting now. I gotta find previous posts explaining how to set up the tv for it.

mount the center channel above the tv? just a thought? and cool let us know! im hoping your findings are close to the 14 x 8 zone count. im still thinking its 15 x 8 but will see
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post #123 of 14414 Old 05-26-2015, 10:30 PM
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mount the center channel above the tv? just a thought? and cool let us know! im hoping your findings are close to the 14 x 8 zone count. im still thinking its 15 x 8 but will see
Wow. I never knew counting zones could be so difficult. Surprisingly, I counted 15 x 7. But I would not want to bet any money on it. I did it maybe 4 or 5 times. And got different numbers often. Finally brought out my ouija board. That helped some. Imagination also helps. Like you say, the vertical columns are a little less difficult than the horizontal rows. I wouldn't argue for a second if I was told I was way off.

I know I am wrong in thinking this way and will probably not be asked to ever count zones again, but if zones being on and off are this difficult to discern, it would seem that the number of them doesn't have a large impact on the PQ. I look forward to learning more about this.

In basketball, we'd call my effort an air ball.
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post #124 of 14414 Old 05-26-2015, 10:43 PM
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Wow. I never knew counting zones could be so difficult. Surprisingly, I counted 15 x 7. But I would not want to bet any money on it. I did it maybe 4 or 5 times. And got different numbers often. Finally brought out my ouija board. That helped some. Imagination also helps. Like you say, the vertical columns are a little less difficult than the horizontal rows. I wouldn't argue for a second if I was told I was way off.

I know I am wrong in thinking this way and will probably not be asked to ever count zones again, but if zones being on and off are this difficult to discern, it would seem that the number of them doesn't have a large impact on the PQ. I look forward to learning more about this.

In basketball, we'd call my effort an air ball.

so my prediction of 15 x 8 might be right which was the 120 i stated from the start
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post #125 of 14414 Old 05-26-2015, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
True story: I'm watching American Sniper on bluray with my non av snob girlfriend on the new x940c. After about 15 minutes she says "can we go up stairs and watch this on the OLED". I'm afraid this 940C is going to have to go back if it can't even impress her :/

Well crap. Now what? I'm going to have to go OLED I guess. Either get the 65 or go balls out and get the 77? I had high hopes for this Sony too.
To be brutally honest, OLED is cranking the knob to 11 with color/contrast. It is superior in those regards, but doesn't assure "the best picture" overall as there's many other aspects to viewing. If you can't put the power to the ground, you're just spinning off the line.

I'm sure the 940C looks fantastic for what it is, the 930C is easily the best looking non-FALD set we have on the floor after all, and it actually gives the JS9500 a run for it's money.

Speaking of money, get ready to throw some major change down for a larger OLED. You'll be in JS9500 territory. Question is, can you warrant that difference in cash-money to what the 940C outputs? That's up to you and your accountant to decide.

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so my prediction of 15 x 8 might be right which was the 120 i stated from the start
Depends on if they used uniform plotting of the arrays, but I would assume it's pretty close to said number.
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post #126 of 14414 Old 05-26-2015, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I did a lot of setting adjustment and came up with some amazing results. Well I think so atleast.

Picture mode: standard
Auto picture: off
Brightness:29
Light sensor: off
Color:58

Advanced:
Contrast:96
Gamma:1
Black level:40
Black adjust: off
Advanced cont adj: off
ALC:high
Xtended dynamic range:low
Color temp:natural
Color space: auto
Live color: medium
Sharpness:43
Everything else in clarity off
Motion set to standard
All other motion settings set to off

With all that the picture is really remarkable even with all the lights off in my house. Pitch black. The black levels aren't crushed and neither are the whites. These settings might not work for all but I would say it's a great starting point. I have spent countless hours getting it too look great I my honest opinion.

Hope this helps.
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post #127 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 02:03 AM
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^^ Thank you zeroescence!

Should'nt be too long now b4 the professional reviewers chime in. Maybe your settings will be close to theirs with your earnest efforts. Are those settings across the board for all inputs btw?


If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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post #128 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 02:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zeroescence View Post
Well I did a lot of setting adjustment and came up with some amazing results. Well I think so atleast.

Picture mode: standard
Auto picture: off
Brightness:29
Light sensor: off
Color:58

Advanced:
Contrast:96
Gamma:1
Black level:40
Black adjust: off
Advanced cont adj: off
ALC:high
Xtended dynamic range:low
Color temp:natural
Color space: auto
Live color: medium
Sharpness:43
Everything else in clarity off
Motion set to standard
All other motion settings set to off

With all that the picture is really remarkable even with all the lights off in my house. Pitch black. The black levels aren't crushed and neither are the whites. These settings might not work for all but I would say it's a great starting point. I have spent countless hours getting it too look great I my honest opinion.

Hope this helps.
I use test patterns like black pluge and white clipping ,grayscale and color gradients ,scaling and sharpness patterns ? You can do a
lot of that by eye even without a colorimeter ( << best way if U screw with grey scale or white balance (only way for that stuff right way is the meter ☻) Otoh on something like one of these sets a pro calibration is never a bad idea for a quasi protected mode.

Patterns are free here with some basic instruction takes practice to get it all balanced you can save settings to all the modes inputs or copy them and store some variants to your preference ( I have 4 on this set ) I would keep a baseline accurate with no clipping and good shadow black detail in General or Cinema 2 or maybe both they have different but decent CMS and gamma curves .I keep Cinema at 6500K (warm) probably warm 1 for you and usually neutral color in general or switch them on the fly in gen. Cinema almost always needs the backlights (brightness now )and contrast screwed (near max .) and and the black level set to .016 that's a good place to start then work on clipping with the gradient patterns . tip: Color sat is critical on color gradients a little to much can X it up lots too little .. looks like X ☻

lot's to play with on new set maybe 6 mo from now you will have it all down accurately in some modes and how you like it in other modes nothing says you have to like accurate but I highly recommend it in Cinema and not far off in general that's how they color grade movies and lots of content so you can go from there but maybe with neut color in gen for more pop .small changes can throw something else put of whack also and make a big difference .
have fun

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post #129 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroescence View Post
Well I did a lot of setting adjustment and came up with some amazing results. Well I think so atleast.

Picture mode: standard
Auto picture: off
Brightness:29
Light sensor: off
Color:58

Advanced:
Contrast:96
Gamma:1
Black level:40
Black adjust: off
Advanced cont adj: off
ALC:high
Xtended dynamic range:low
Color temp:natural
Color space: auto
Live color: medium
Sharpness:43
Everything else in clarity off
Motion set to standard
All other motion settings set to off

With all that the picture is really remarkable even with all the lights off in my house. Pitch black. The black levels aren't crushed and neither are the whites. These settings might not work for all but I would say it's a great starting point. I have spent countless hours getting it too look great I my honest opinion.

Hope this helps.
Gamma 1 seems rather high. I thought ideally you want to use -2 gamma and then adjust other levels from there?

The color on the set isn't bad by any means. It's the limited zones that are hurting it. A lot of blooming, and dimming seems to only work on live content and not in menus, screen savers and splash screens. Now maybe it will work from an Hdmi source, but the built in apps it didn't until content actually started playing. I tried to take some pictures but my iPhone 6 Plus just isn't capturing it right. I'll try with a real camera later.

The big negatives for me with this set are:

Picture looks like it's in a box when watching movies, you've got the usual black bars on the top, but now you've also got them on the sides too thanks to the speakers.

Not a big fan of Sonys picture adjustment menu. I think LG gives you more to play with, or maybe I just understand LGs terms better.

Built in sound isn't great, but i wasn't going to use it anyways. I'm sure a wireless sub would help. I'm more concerned about vocal clarity however, and I don't think the Sony does a great job of that. Turning on movie sound mode adjusts voices to +2 which helped. It's good enough for what it is, but I think any AVS member is doing themselves a great injustice by having a set of this caliber without a proper sound system.

At the end of the day for me it's going to come down to black level. I was hoping FALD would more closely mimic what OLED can do, and maybe it could with double or triple the zones. If I were to spend 15k on a 200 zone Samsung, I might as well spend 22k on the 77 OLED and get what i truly want.

I could afford a 22k TV, the question is do I really want to spend that on a TV? Let's say I keep it for 4 years and watch it for 2 hours every single night. That would mean I'm paying $7.50 an hour to watch it. thats iMax theater pricing!

Maybe I'll just pick up the 65" OLED for now, but then what do I do with this rather expensive Standout Designs 82" wide stand that I just bought? Throw it in storage for a couple years, or find a local Wisconsin buyer? Putting a 65" set on it my speakers would be spread too far apart from the display.
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post #130 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
Gamma 1 seems rather high. I thought ideally you want to use -2 gamma and then adjust other levels from there?

The color on the set isn't bad by any means. It's the limited zones that are hurting it. A lot of blooming, and dimming seems to only work on live content and not in menus, screen savers and splash screens. Now maybe it will work from an Hdmi source, but the built in apps it didn't until content actually started playing. I tried to take some pictures but my iPhone 6 Plus just isn't capturing it right. I'll try with a real camera later.

The big negatives for me with this set are:

Picture looks like it's in a box when watching movies, you've got the usual black bars on the top, but now you've also got them on the sides too thanks to the speakers.

Not a big fan of Sonys picture adjustment menu. I think LG gives you more to play with, or maybe I just understand LGs terms better.

Built in sound isn't great, but i wasn't going to use it anyways. I'm sure a wireless sub would help. I'm more concerned about vocal clarity however, and I don't think the Sony does a great job of that. Turning on movie sound mode adjusts voices to +2 which helped. It's good enough for what it is, but I think any AVS member is doing themselves a great injustice by having a set of this caliber without a proper sound system.

At the end of the day for me it's going to come down to black level. I was hoping FALD would more closely mimic what OLED can do, and maybe it could with double or triple the zones. If I were to spend 15k on a 200 zone Samsung, I might as well spend 22k on the 77 OLED and get what i truly want.

I could afford a 22k TV, the question is do I really want to spend that on a TV? Let's say I keep it for 4 years and watch it for 2 hours every single night. That would mean I'm paying $7.50 an hour to watch it. thats iMax theater pricing!

Maybe I'll just pick up the 65" OLED for now, but then what do I do with this rather expensive Standout Designs 82" wide stand that I just bought? Throw it in storage for a couple years, or find a local Wisconsin buyer? Putting a 65" set on it my speakers would be spread too far apart from the display.
I can sympathize with your struggle, I am coming from plasma, which I still have 3 of in other rooms. However, I needed something at least 75" for my great room / living room and needed to come as close to plasma as possible or else I wouldn't be happy. I think this set is going to fit the bill for me, and honestly I don't think I am going to find anything much better. Sure I paid more than double of what I initially wanted, but I have been much happier with this TV than the M70-C3, 75JU7100, and 75X850C. The picture didn't pop at all on the M70 or 75X850C. Much better blacks, much closer to plasma. You are going to get some blooming / highlighting on LCD with text or logos on a black screen, it is a part of the technology, doesn't matter how many zones. My father's 22K 88JS9500 has the same thing.

I got Kodi working last night on the set, very easy to do. You download 1 program on the TV and then transfer the file from your phone to the PC and then run the .apk and it installs. Watched a couple of 1080P x264 Blu-ray rips I made and no frame drops or anything.

I will probably go with the Sonos Playbar now that Kodi works, as I can play the music videos / music throughout the house, but I didn't get it opened yet.
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post #131 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 07:53 AM
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Almost every TV will have separate B /T / M, you'll find it. I usually go T + 5 steps, M - 2, B + 3.

Yes. that would put the "Loudness" curve on the TV's audio response.

I now have my audio system connected again. So I can give Sony's integrated speakers a rest.
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post #132 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ Thank you zeroescence!

Should'nt be too long now b4 the professional reviewers chime in. Maybe your settings will be close to theirs with your earnest efforts. Are those settings across the board for all inputs btw?

Thanks. I know they aren't perfect. But they work great for all my sources. I have the same settings used for my ps4, Xbox one, Apple TV, fios dvr, and PS3 bluray player. It seems to look great across the board.
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post #133 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 08:11 AM
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Thanks. I know they aren't perfect. But they work great for all my sources. I have the same settings used for my ps4, Xbox one, Apple TV, fios dvr, and PS3 bluray player. It seems to look great across the board.
So.... Does it look like a keeper at this point our you still on the fence?
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post #134 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 08:48 AM
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So local dimming does work properly on splash screen, screen saver, and other static content when coming from an HDMI source. It's just the built in apps that don't seem to support it. When starting up my Oppo Blu-Ray player for example, the screen is black with the exception of the Oppo logo in the middle. There is a large amount of blooming though. The zones just aren't small enough on this set.

Playing around with the various preset pictures modes while on the menu screen of "Hannibal, Season 1" it seems A LOT of detail is lost in Cinema Home and Cinema Pro modes. Standard mode brings the detail back, and Sport mode is extreme detail.

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post #135 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 08:50 AM
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I can sympathize with your struggle, I am coming from plasma, which I still have 3 of in other rooms. However, I needed something at least 75" for my great room / living room and needed to come as close to plasma as possible or else I wouldn't be happy. I think this set is going to fit the bill for me, and honestly I don't think I am going to find anything much better. Sure I paid more than double of what I initially wanted, but I have been much happier with this TV than the M70-C3, 75JU7100, and 75X850C. The picture didn't pop at all on the M70 or 75X850C. Much better blacks, much closer to plasma. You are going to get some blooming / highlighting on LCD with text or logos on a black screen, it is a part of the technology, doesn't matter how many zones. My father's 22K 88JS9500 has the same thing.

I got Kodi working last night on the set, very easy to do. You download 1 program on the TV and then transfer the file from your phone to the PC and then run the .apk and it installs. Watched a couple of 1080P x264 Blu-ray rips I made and no frame drops or anything.

I will probably go with the Sonos Playbar now that Kodi works, as I can play the music videos / music throughout the house, but I didn't get it opened yet.
Can Kodi do 24p successfully for Android TV OS? I know that this has been a limitation of the normal Android OS which limits the changing of refresh rates.

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post #136 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 08:54 AM
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You are going to get some blooming / highlighting on LCD with text or logos on a black screen, it is a part of the technology, doesn't matter how many zones. My father's 22K 88JS9500 has the same thing.
I do realize that, but more zones would certainly help. What this set needs more than anything is more vertical zones. After watching how it behaves on live content, I now think there may only be 6 vertical zones. That would make it 14 x 6, for a total of 84 zones.

I'm going to go mess around with the 78" JS9500 tomorrow and see how much the extra zones actually help. I think I may have to down size to the 65EG9600 for the time being. I could then move that set to our secondary living room in a year or two when/if 77" OLED price comes down. By that time it would have proper hdmi 2.0a support too. 22k is a hard pill to swallow for an EG9700 given it doesn't even support HDR. I can't put too much stock into HDR though given there is no content available and by the time there is I may be on to my next set anyways! If I was spending 22k though I would be getting the OLED all day over the JS9500 for same money.

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post #137 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 09:01 AM
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Can Kodi do 24p successfully for Android TV OS? I know that this has been a limitation of the normal Android OS which limits the changing of refresh rates.
I was not able to change the resolution in the standard menus from what I remember, the options were greyed out, but it was set to 1080P. I can't get the TV's display / info banner to pop-up when in Kodi, so it is hard to verify for sure.
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post #138 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 09:19 AM
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I was not able to change the resolution in the standard menus from what I remember, the options were greyed out, but it was set to 1080P. I can't get the TV's display / info banner to pop-up when in Kodi, so it is hard to verify for sure.
Thank you for checking.

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post #139 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 09:24 AM
 
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I do realize that, but more zones would certainly help. What this set needs more than anything is more vertical zones. After watching how it behaves on live content, I now think there may only be 6 vertical zones. That would make it 14 x 6, for a total of 84 zones.

I'm going to go mess around with the 78" JS9500 tomorrow and see how much the extra zones actually help. I think I may have to down size to the 65EG9600 for the time being. I could then move that set to our secondary living room in a year or two when/if 77" OLED price comes down. By that time it would have proper hdmi 2.0a support too. 22k is a hard pill to swallow for an EG9700 given it doesn't even support HDR. I can't put too much stock into HDR though given there is no content available and by the time there is I may be on to my next set anyways! If I was spending 22k though I would be getting the OLED all day over the JS9500 for same money.
regarding 4k and HDR lots of choices coming this year!!!

HDR + 4K streaming/download services soon
Vidity
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1432274411

M-Go
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1432290428

Fox will release all new movies in Ultra HD and HDR..Awesome news there is going to be lots of HDR 4k movies that all 930/940c users will be able to watch so much for no HDR content for a long time or viewing HDR clips nope owners will be able to watch lots of movies in HDR expect all other studios to follow suit HDR is a big deal I have seen it and trust me it's mind blowing seems like hollywood agrees

Hollywood is clearly excited about high dynamic range. 20th Century Fox has decided to release versions of all of its new movies, as well as some catalogue titles, in Ultra HD and HDR for the living room.

MOVIES IN UHD AND HDR

Many people believe that the combination of 4K resolution and HDR can take the viewing experience to new heights. Hollywood seems to agree. The studios show sincere enthusiasm for HDR after 3D felt more like a burden to them.

Film studio, 20th Century Fox, will release all future movies in Ultra HD with HDR for home entertainment, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Two catalogue titles, X-Men: Days of Future Past and The Maze Runner, will also be re-released.

Ultra HD has four times as many pixels as HD. High Dynamic Range is about better contrast; brighter whites and deeper blacks. The industry often refers to HDR as "better pixels". The first TVs with HDR support have been released and many more will follow later this year.

The new Ultra HD Blu-ray standard will support HDR. Netflix has confirmed that it will start offering HDR streaming later this year. Hollywood is also hoping to introduce HDR in movie theatres through initiatives such as Dolby Cinema.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...etter_sub1_jpg

Please post accurate info there is going to be lots of 4k hdr options this year. Fox releasing all their future titles in 4k hdr and they will re release some titles in 4k hdr THIS YEAR!!! Netflix has lots of 4k hdr content too also M-Go and VIdity offering full 4k hdr downloads ..Saying there will be hardly any 4k hdr stuff this year is completely false the opposite is true there will be lots off content and expect many more studios to follow.
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post #140 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 09:26 AM
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Thanks. I know they aren't perfect. But they work great for all my sources. I have the same settings used for my ps4, Xbox one, Apple TV, fios dvr, and PS3 bluray player. It seems to look great across the board.

When I get my 940C I'll use your settings as a starting point then run a basic calibration. I calibrate using the WOW disc and an App on my iPhone. (Basics)

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post #141 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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So.... Does it look like a keeper at this point our you still on the fence?
So far it does look like I'm keeping it but I'm waiting for the netflix app upgrade. And to see if they fix all the freezing while changing settings.
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post #142 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 09:37 AM
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Looks like my x930c can be delivered as soon as this afternoon, sucks I'm out of the city and will have to take delivery next week tuesday!

Can't wait to the unboxing!!! =)
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post #143 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 10:00 AM
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So far it does look like I'm keeping it but I'm waiting for the netflix app upgrade. And to see if they fix all the freezing while changing settings.
I had a nasty issue last night creep up when I was messing with the settings, it seemed like the panel was stuck in super bright mode after messing with the light sensor and the background luminosity (Brightness) settings. I was getting blooming on all the text menus. I think I got it back to normal by running through the setup again, but may do a factory reset to make sure tonight.
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post #144 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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When I get my 940C I'll use your settings as a starting point then run a basic calibration. I calibrate using the WOW disc and an App on my iPhone. (Basics)
Yeah check it out and tell me what you think. Then if you make changes post them. Good luck brother.

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I had a nasty issue last night creep up when I was messing with the settings, it seemed like the panel was stuck in super bright mode after messing with the light sensor and the background luminosity (Brightness) settings. I was getting blooming on all the text menus. I think I got it back to normal by running through the setup again, but may do a factory reset to make sure tonight.
Yeah I have had that happen many times.
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post #145 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 11:07 AM
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I had a nasty issue last night creep up when I was messing with the settings, it seemed like the panel was stuck in super bright mode after messing with the light sensor and the background luminosity (Brightness) settings. I was getting blooming on all the text menus. I think I got it back to normal by running through the setup again, but may do a factory reset to make sure tonight.
Hopefully that's a software issue and should be fixed with updates...
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post #146 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 11:10 AM
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Yeah check it out and tell me what you think. Then if you make changes post them. Good luck brother.

How did you tweak yours? Eye ball or did you use calibration software/suction cup.
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post #147 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 11:18 AM
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Yeah check it out and tell me what you think. Then if you make changes post them. Good luck brother.

Yeah I have had that happen many times.
I will use your settings too. I did reset to factory several times last night. I didn't like the results however. You guys have changed the settings a lot more than I have, but, I only saw one lockup. And it seemed to 'unlock' after maybe 15 seconds or so. At the time, I thought I had mis-aimed the remote, but then I realized the 940c just wasn't responding.

I just copied some 4k demos to a USB external HD and I'm fixin to see how they look.
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post #148 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I will use your settings too. I did reset to factory several times last night. I didn't like the results however. You guys have changed the settings a lot more than I have, but, I only saw one lockup. And it seemed to 'unlock' after maybe 15 seconds or so. At the time, I thought I had mis-aimed the remote, but then I realized the 940c just wasn't responding.

I just copied some 4k demos to a USB external HD and I'm fixin to see how they look.
Yeah let me know what you think.

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How did you tweak yours? Eye ball or did you use calibration software/suction cup.
Just eyeball.

Also has anyone with the 940c received the update that is supposed to be out today?
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post #149 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 11:30 AM
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It looks like Sony is starting to ship the X940C from the website. It's showing as ships in 1-2 days.

As anyone received a ship notice or has your order status changed to preparing to ship?
No change on my order from Sony, i.e. still "Processing"

I think I'm going to cancel the order from Sony anyway and just wait for my Amazon pre-order to ship. Amazon matched my Sony discount and I'd rather buy from Amazon...
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post #150 of 14414 Old 05-27-2015, 12:18 PM
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No change on my order from Sony, i.e. still "Processing"

I think I'm going to cancel the order from Sony anyway and just wait for my Amazon pre-order to ship. Amazon matched my Sony discount and I'd rather buy from Amazon...
What about buying at the retail store next week? As long as you don't try and take mine.
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