Fandango (Formerly MGo) 4K download troubleshooting thread - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 2338 Old 08-19-2015, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post
You should be able to fit roughly 14 UHD/HDR full length movies on the hard drive.
I only have 8, but it insists it's full unless I delete something. The movie(s) I deleted I would never watch anyway, but just another of those 'known issues' that M-GO is always touting.

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post #1232 of 2338 Old 08-19-2015, 09:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ahro View Post
I only have 8, but it insists it's full unless I delete something. The movie(s) I deleted I would never watch anyway, but just another of those 'known issues' that M-GO is always touting.
If Vidity is indeed chip embedded than I would assume one could re-format the drive and have plenty of room available.

I personally think HDR is over hyped and $30/80+g for one movie is just a waste of money and drive space. Yes it may look better. But IMHO not that significant of a difference to justify.

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post #1233 of 2338 Old 08-19-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzledbiker View Post
If Vidity is indeed chip embedded than I would assume one could re-format the drive and have plenty of room available.

I personally think HDR is over hyped and $30/80+g for one movie is just a waste of money and drive space. Yes it may look better. But IMHO not that significant of a difference to justify.
I had enough difficulty getting the drive to work with M-GO -- how on Earth would you reformat the drive?

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post #1234 of 2338 Old 08-19-2015, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ahro View Post
I had enough difficulty getting the drive to work with M-GO -- how on Earth would you reformat the drive?
It's done on your PC. Basically wipes it clean. But in this case it's windows based NTFS and so you couldn't do it on Apple anyway.
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post #1235 of 2338 Old 08-19-2015, 10:27 PM
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Thought i would put this out there for everyone that does the MGO HDR. but i was playing with the new JS9500 tonight with the HDR, and it seems that some of our suspicions were correct about Dynamic Contrast with HDR. With dynamic contrast turned off, the picture is dark and alot of detail is lost that should be there. When you turn it on, it brightens up all the dark areas and brings out detail and more color all over the place and DOES NOT CRUSH. if anything, the picture is crushed with dynamic contrast turned off. the key to HDR with samsung sets its dynamic contrast, no doubt about it.
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post #1236 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 02:59 AM
 
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Ray - I've had DC on high from day 1 back in Sept. Picture looks blah without it. No arguement here.
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post #1237 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Thought i would put this out there for everyone that does the MGO HDR. but i was playing with the new JS9500 tonight with the HDR, and it seems that some of our suspicions were correct about Dynamic Contrast with HDR. With dynamic contrast turned off, the picture is dark and alot of detail is lost that should be there.
I still don't believe this theory that HDR requires Dynamic Contrast turned on. I do believe that sometimes turning on Dynamic Contrast improves the picture by making some picture detail visible, but that may be because other settings were not set optimally, like Contrast and Brightness. It doesn't prove anything.
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post #1238 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I still don't believe this theory that HDR requires Dynamic Contrast turned on. I do believe that sometimes turning on Dynamic Contrast improves the picture by making some picture detail visible, but that may be because other settings were not set optimally, like Contrast and Brightness. It doesn't prove anything.

Greg, I can take pictures all day showing that with dynamic contrast off, the picture is crushed. I have the backlight and contrast at max here on the JS9500 which is a 1000 nit tv, and the picture is completely crushed with it turned OFF.

Hdr is supposed to fill the picture with detail and color, which doesn't happen with it turned off. I really hate arguing about this, but to me and alot others the difference is extremely obvious.
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post #1239 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Greg, I can take pictures all day showing that with dynamic contrast off, the picture is crushed. I have the backlight and contrast at max here on the JS9500 which is a 1000 nit tv, and the picture is completely crushed with it turned OFF.
I don't doubt it. I'm not questioning your observations. Did you read the part of my comment where I mentioned Brightness? The first remedy you should try for crushed blacks is to turn up Brightness. Put on a scene with shadows, turn off Dynamic Contrast, then turn up Brightness until shadow detail becomes visible. I'm not saying this is a sure cure for crushed blacks, but it is something you should try before coming to the conclusion that you need Dynamic Contrast. It is not necessarily best for blacks to have Backlight and Contrast maxed out. (Also, make sure Black Tone is Off, and check the Gamma setting.)

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post #1240 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 01:49 PM
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Stange thing going on with my M-GO HDR movies. Sometimes I can control DC and black tone and gamma. Other times I can't. It looks so much better when I CAN'T control them, as though the M-GO HDR wants particular settings to look its best.

When this occurs, I can only control BL, contrast, color, sharpness and tint.

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post #1241 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ahro View Post
... as though the M-GO HDR wants particular settings to look its best.
And those settings it wants are ... ?

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post #1242 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
And those settings it wants are ... ?
It seems that DC is HIGH, black tone Dark, Gamma O

If I leave M-GO and re-enter, I can gain control again. Go figure, but it looks good when I have no control over those settings, Of course either way, I get snap back of BL and contrast.

When I do have control. I can't seem to dial it in to my satisfaction.Believe it or not, that's what happens when I load M-GO from the Tizen strip on my STB.

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post #1243 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I don't doubt it. I'm not questioning your observations. Did you read the part of my comment where I mentioned Brightness? The first remedy you should try for crushed blacks is to turn up Brightness. Put on a scene with shadows, turn off Dynamic Contrast, then turn up Brightness until shadow detail becomes visible. I'm not saying this is a sure cure for crushed blacks, but it is something you should try before coming to the conclusion that you need Dynamic Contrast. It is not necessarily best for blacks to have Backlight and Contrast maxed out. (Also, make sure Black Tone is Off, and check the Gamma setting.)

I will check it out later. I have a feeling i have to turn brightness up to 60 or 65 to bring out the same detail out which imassuming would hurt overall black levels.
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post #1244 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 03:33 PM
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@GregLee -- I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I load the movies from the Vidity movie strip on the movies page and not from my library page.

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post #1245 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 06:08 PM
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HDR clip on the JS9500. Playing again with dynamic contrast, decided to take more pix. which picture do you think has the most "crush"? which picture shows the most detail/ the least detail?
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post #1246 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
which picture do you think has the most "crush"? which picture shows the most detail/ the least detail?
I can't tell anything from that. To see if shadow detail is crushed, I'd need to see a scene with shadows.

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post #1247 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 08:28 PM
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At a calibration standpoint, I'll have to agree with Greg Lee. Dynamic Contrast on High in regular content will crush blacks, but will show more light or colored details. I'm guessing this will also apply on UHD/HDR. But, I'm not against using Dynamic Contrast because I do have mine set to High for HDR content, but for other content/sources, I turn it off for the above mentioned reason.

my JS8500 movie calibration settings as of 8/8/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post34495410
my JS8500 standard calibration settings as of 6/18/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post35124130
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post #1248 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 08:46 PM
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Here's some pics to show how Dynamic Contrast causes Blacks to crush (sorry for the poor quality of the images, i took them with an iPhone 6), I used the brightness panel in the Disney WoW disc, I know the stars flash back and forth, each pic was taken exactly at the same time a few seconds after the stars flashed:
PIC 1: Dynamic Contrast Off
PIC 2: Dynamic Contrast Low
PIC 3: Dynamic Contrast Medium
PIC 4: Dynamic Contrast High
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my JS8500 movie calibration settings as of 8/8/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post34495410
my JS8500 standard calibration settings as of 6/18/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post35124130

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post #1249 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prme19 View Post
At a calibration standpoint, I'll have to agree with Greg Lee. Dynamic Contrast on High in regular content will crush blacks, but will show more light or colored details. I'm guessing this will also apply on UHD/HDR. But, I'm not against using Dynamic Contrast because I do have mine set to High for HDR content, but for other content/sources, I turn it off for the above mentioned reason.
yes, it crushes with regular content, with HDR, it works completely differently. its so obvious that i think you guys are just denying it. its even more obvious in person.
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post #1250 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
yes, it crushes with regular content, with HDR, it works completely differently. its so obvious that i think you guys are just denying it. its even more obvious in person.
Ive watched some hdr on my 9500 have never seen anything even remotely "dull" or lacking detail never used dynamic contrast. sounds more like a preference that not everyone will like. You can't force a personal preference on someone imo.
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post #1251 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 10:21 PM
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I got the JS9500 and HU9000 set up side by side tonight.


with dynamic contrast OFF, the pictures are actually pretty close. With dynamic contrast engaged on both sets, peak illuminator cranks up big time, more so on the JS9500. peak illuminator is what drives the HDR, so without it, it wont have its "it" factor.
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post #1252 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
yes, it crushes with regular content, with HDR, it works completely differently. its so obvious that i think you guys are just denying it. its even more obvious in person.
I'm not denying anything. I'm simply stating what I know and see, that Dynamic Contrast on High crushes blacks while increasing pop on lighter details. Here's another example: cage/elevator scene from Maze Runner HDR, first few scenes of the movie. First Pic is Dynamic Contrast Off then Low then Medium then High. Just look at the sleeves on his right shoulder, his bottom teeth, or the background. See how these seems to disappear in the shadows?
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my JS8500 movie calibration settings as of 8/8/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post34495410
my JS8500 standard calibration settings as of 6/18/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post35124130
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post #1253 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 10:30 PM
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heres another interesting picture.

I decided to keep dynamic contrast OFF the JS9500, and turn it ON for the HU9000. with the exception of a tiny bit of shadow detail (from the fald), the pictures now look almost exactly the same. the js9500 is being held back despite both tvs having backlights at 20.
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post #1254 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prme19 View Post
I'm not denying anything. I'm simply stating what I know and see, that Dynamic Contrast on High crushes blacks while increasing pop on lighter details. Here's another example: cage/elevator scene from Maze Runner HDR, first few scenes of the movie. First Pic is Dynamic Contrast Off then Low then Medium then High. Just look at the sleeves on his right shoulder, his bottom teeth, or the background. See how these seems to disappear in the shadows?


whatever is going on with your camera is screwing with the picture, the picture shouldnt be more cloudy with dynamic contrast turned on, it should be darker if anything. were you playing with the exposure or something?

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post #1255 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prme19 View Post
I'm not denying anything. I'm simply stating what I know and see, that Dynamic Contrast on High crushes blacks while increasing pop on lighter details. Here's another example: cage/elevator scene from Maze Runner HDR, first few scenes of the movie. First Pic is Dynamic Contrast Off then Low then Medium then High. Just look at the sleeves on his right shoulder, his bottom teeth, or the background. See how these seems to disappear in the shadows?
I have to say those HDR pics look horrible your blacks look grey entire picture is washed out..

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here is a VERY dark scene in exodus HDR. with dynamic contrast OFF, the picture is very dark. you really cant make out any details, despite both backlights being at 20. when i turn on DC to high, the entire picture lights up, and nothing is crushed at all, it brings out all the details you couldnt see before. and if you see the blu ray, this scene is not supposed to be totally dark like this, the HDR grading process darkened the picture, and the tv needs to "relight" it back up. i mean seriously, what exactly is being crushed in the DC on picture?? The HU definitely has a hard time luminating the picture, though in person you can actually see alot more than whats in the picture.

the JS9500 has peak illuminator ULTIMATE. dynamic contrast helps turn that on. thats why when i turn DC on, the js9500 zooms past the 9000 which is lacking the juice and has a lower version of peak illuminator. with SDR dynamic contrast crushes big time, but not with HDR. havent seen it at all yet.
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post #1257 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
heres another interesting picture.

I decided to keep dynamic contrast OFF the JS9500, and turn it ON for the HU9000. with the exception of a tiny bit of shadow detail (from the fald), the pictures now look almost exactly the same. the js9500 is being held back despite both tvs having backlights at 20.
Looks like last Fw changed dynamic contrast a little in HDR mode. The director probably does not intend that dynamic contrast to be on if this is the case Metadata would adjust the set accordingly. Dynamic contrast behaves differently in HDR mode. Dynamic contrast up until medium offers little to no perceivable black crush and it actually brightens up highlights and some darker details. Dynamic contrast high in HDR mode with current FW does crush some details and over brightens others. Example life of pi sunset with tiger in boat with dynamic contrast set to high you can't see the details of the sun it is clipping or over brightening the sun so you can't see the detail. also look at the reflection in water of sun its just a yellow blob you can't see the ripples in the water they are washed out. My personal opinion dynamic contrast can help the picture look brighter and have more specular highlights up until med with little to no crush. High does look bright and punchy but it is actually crushing some dark and bright detail.

We are very early in HDR phase and as fall approaches and netflix along with bluray ramp up for 4k hdr release we are bound to see some improvements. Expect quite a few HDR FW updates from now until christmas it will only get better. Try some hdr clips and toggle Dynamic through the levels and report what you see.
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post #1258 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:19 PM
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If you have an HDR capable set, it is going to be able to deliver high peak brightness levels for small areas on the screen regardless of whether the source is HD, UHD, or HDR. What would prevent the TV from producing very bright areas with a non-HDR source? So far as I know, nothing would prevent it, provided you set the user controls to allow high peak brightness.

Consequently, when you compare HDR with non-HDR sources and expect the HDR sources to give you more brightness, you're going to be disappointed. Unless, of course, you turn up user controls that affect brightness whenever you're watching a source that was branded HDR -- then you'll see more brightness, but it will have nothing to do with HDR in the source.

This is my theory of why the HDR branded sources from MGO sometimes set Contrast and Backlight to the maximum. Someone stuck in metacommands to do that with the idea of minimizing complaints from users that the HDR movies weren't any brighter than regular UHD movies. It's not that they should be brighter because they're HDR; it's because people expect them to be brighter.

The difference we ought to be seeing between UHD and UHD-HDR should be the extra color shading information in 10 bit sources, not more brightness.

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post #1259 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
here is a VERY dark scene in exodus HDR. with dynamic contrast OFF, the picture is very dark. you really cant make out any details, despite both backlights being at 20. when i turn on DC to high, the entire picture lights up, and nothing is crushed at all, it brings out all the details you couldnt see before. and if you see the blu ray, this scene is not supposed to be totally dark like this, the HDR grading process darkened the picture, and the tv needs to "relight" it back up. i mean seriously, what exactly is being crushed in the DC on picture?? The HU definitely has a hard time luminating the picture, though in person you can actually see alot more than whats in the picture.

the JS9500 has peak illuminator ULTIMATE. dynamic contrast helps turn that on. thats why when i turn DC on, the js9500 zooms past the 9000 which is lacking the juice and has a lower version of peak illuminator. with SDR dynamic contrast crushes big time, but not with HDR. havent seen it at all yet.
I really think we are going to have to calibrate a HDR mode for our sets and await more FW for HDR playback. HDR is not just about a bright picture it is about accurate colours and specular highlights it's about tricking the brain with light output to think the image is real so the tiniest details should not be lost. The js9500 is super bright so if on my Hu its crushing on dynamic high it is definitely crushing and blowing out highlights on JS9500.
Dynamic low to med is acceptable for what I have seen so far on HDR like I stated it does bring out some dark details and improves highlights but on high I can't honestly say you will get a refrence PQ it will be bright and have crazy highlights but @ the expense of overblown highlights and some black crush..
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post #1260 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:26 PM
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Looks like last Fw changed dynamic contrast a little in HDR mode. The director probably does not intend that dynamic contrast to be on if this is the case Metadata would adjust the set accordingly. Dynamic contrast behaves differently in HDR mode. Dynamic contrast up until medium offers little to no perceivable black crush and it actually brightens up highlights and some darker details. Dynamic contrast high in HDR mode with current FW does crush some details and over brightens others. Example life of pi sunset with tiger in boat with dynamic contrast set to high you can't see the details of the sun it is clipping or over brightening the sun so you can't see the detail. also look at the reflection in water of sun its just a yellow blob you can't see the ripples in the water they are washed out. My personal opinion dynamic contrast can help the picture look brighter and have more specular highlights up until med with little to no crush. High does look bright and punchy but it is actually crushing some dark and bright detail.

We are very early in HDR phase and as fall approaches and netflix along with bluray ramp up for 4k hdr release we are bound to see some improvements. Expect quite a few HDR FW updates from now until christmas it will only get better. Try some hdr clips and toggle Dynamic through the levels and report what you see.

tried the c lips earlier with the tvs side by side, it acts the same. even with the js9500, the picture is on the dark side with it on medium. i dont think any directors intended their movies being redone in HDR, so that point is moot. the question, is what did the production company intend when they were doing their grading. I dont think there will ever be exact calibration settings for HDR because every movie or tv show will be graded with a different purpose which could require the viewer to set his settings differently each time.

people say they arent seeing a big difference with HDR, well i just showed you that with DC turned off, the js9500 and HU9000 have almost the same picture. its not until you activate peak illuminator via DC that you really see a huge difference. if you dont use at least medium DC, you will not see a difference over last years tvs.
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