Fandango (Formerly MGo) 4K download troubleshooting thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
If you have an HDR capable set, it is going to be able to deliver high peak brightness levels for small areas on the screen regardless of whether the source is HD, UHD, or HDR. What would prevent the TV from producing very bright areas with a non-HDR source? So far as I know, nothing would prevent it, provided you set the user controls to allow high peak brightness.

Consequently, when you compare HDR with non-HDR sources and expect the HDR sources to give you more brightness, you're going to be disappointed. Unless, of course, you turn up user controls that affect brightness whenever you're watching a source that was branded HDR -- then you'll see more brightness, but it will have nothing to do with HDR in the source.

This is my theory of why the HDR branded sources from MGO sometimes set Contrast and Backlight to the maximum. Someone stuck in metacommands to do that with the idea of minimizing complaints from users that the HDR movies weren't any brighter than regular UHD movies. It's not that they should be brighter because they're HDR; it's because people expect them to be brighter.

The difference we ought to be seeing between UHD and UHD-HDR should be the extra color shading information in 10 bit sources, not more brightness.
Not entirely correct HDR is about 10 bit colours and DCI-P3 colour space 10 bits increases the luminous so it will be brighter and create more colours trying to emulate the colours we see in real life. HDR is also about deeper blacks and whiter whites which will increase contrast which increase perceived brightness. When we look @ the sun it is bright that we have to squint so if HDR is about recreating the light and colours that we see in real life then HDR is also about brightness. Still early days in coding HDR metadata so they will get better @ it some will be good and some will be bad. The metadata should be what director intended so if he wants dynamic contrast he can specify that in the HDR coding. For the time being I see no adverse effects using dynamic contrast up until med.
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post #1262 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

The difference we ought to be seeing between UHD and UHD-HDR should be the extra color shading information in 10 bit sources, not more brightness.

this is not what we have been told by the companies creating this stuff, including dolby. The brightness to bring out detail is a big part of it. thats why dolbys original HDR display was 4000 nits. itll be a great combination of brightness and more color shades that creates the ultimate HDR picture. I think the the issue, is that too many "old school" folks are not quite ready to switch over to the "new thing" and that means doing things you previously didnt do with your tv.

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post #1263 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:37 PM
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Look at this picture very carefully right now. This is how dolby had their HDR set up. call me crazy, but it looks like there could be a little crush going on in this picture, so maybe thats how its suppose to be. not sure. maybe its camera crush.
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post #1264 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
tried the c lips earlier with the tvs side by side, it acts the same. even with the js9500, the picture is on the dark side with it on medium. i dont think any directors intended their movies being redone in HDR, so that point is moot. the question, is what did the production company intend when they were doing their grading. I dont think there will ever be exact calibration settings for HDR because every movie or tv show will be graded with a different purpose which could require the viewer to set his settings differently each time.

people say they arent seeing a big difference with HDR, well i just showed you that with DC turned off, the js9500 and HU9000 have almost the same picture. its not until you activate peak illuminator via DC that you really see a huge difference. if you dont use at least medium DC, you will not see a difference over last years tvs.
The directors have had the high dynamic range in their movies for some time problem is we could not display them b4 so the downscaled res and did not include dynamic range. Now they are going back and recoding it. Future titles will do a better job as they have it in mind now and off course have better equipment . The metadata is what controls the picture options so absolutely a HDR mode needs to be calibrated and spectracal is working on it now actually I think they have released some hdr calibration stuff I believe Chad has it and is currently using it if I am not mistaken . I will say it does look pretty good on high but if you know what to look for you can see that things are getting blown out and others crushed . The image should never lose any details if things are blown out even if it's slightly then you have gone awry of what the director intended .

This a a question best asked to a calibrator or scott wilkinson .
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post #1265 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Look at this picture very carefully right now. This is how dolby had their HDR set up. call me crazy, but it looks like there could be a little crush going on in this picture, so maybe thats how its suppose to be. not sure. maybe its camera crush.
Camera crush HDR destroys the exposure on cameras to hard to take accurate pics of .
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post #1266 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:49 PM
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Think more colours brighter image blacker blacks without losing details and whiter whites without washing out image as long as these are respected in HDR image is proper. like I stated I observe some black crush in high and some overblown whites as a purest I can't say high will give a reference image on hdr but imo up until med looks damn good. Try it first then report what u observe don't knock it until you try it ..
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post #1267 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
this is not what we have been told by the companies creating this stuff, including dolby. The brightness to bring out detail is a big part of it.
That's true. High brightness is an essential part of HDR. However, it's the TV that supplies the extra brightness, not the source video. If you have an HDR capable TV, it can get you extra brightness for both UHD and UHD-HDR sources. If you're comparing on the same TV displays of the two different kinds of sources, there is no reason to expect the HDR sources will have higher brightness (unless there is some trickery with the TV's controls).

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post #1268 of 2338 Old 08-20-2015, 11:59 PM
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Greg, I can take pictures all day showing that with dynamic contrast off, the picture is crushed. I have the backlight and contrast at max here on the JS9500 which is a 1000 nit tv, and the picture is completely crushed with it turned OFF.

Hdr is supposed to fill the picture with detail and color, which doesn't happen with it turned off. I really hate arguing about this, but to me and alot others the difference is extremely obvious.
To be fair calibration would fix the details that are not present as they would use equipment to dial it in. I think you both have valid points and without calibration I must say once again up until med dynamic contrast to assist HDR @ the moment .
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post #1269 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
That's true. High brightness is an essential part of HDR. However, it's the TV that supplies the extra brightness, not the source video. If you have an HDR capable TV, it can get you extra brightness for both UHD and UHD-HDR sources. If you're comparing on the same TV displays of the two different kinds of sources, there is no reason to expect the HDR sources will have higher brightness (unless there is some trickery with the TV's controls).
This is true too as the js9500 is inherently brighter than the Hu9000 so with both tv's set up to default hdr mode it will display the sets capabilities and nits the highlights would be brighter no matter what on the js9500. I would say no matter how dark we find some hdr right now it is how they coded it and intended it to be for better or worse as the metadata is programed to display as it is intended by director. For those that want more Dynamic contrast is a option and does give the picture more pop no doubt in that is it right is it wrong ? ahhhh early hdr adoption gotta love it lol
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post #1270 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 12:57 AM
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Camera crush HDR destroys the exposure on cameras to hard to take accurate pics of .

I had a very hard time doing my side by sides tonight because the js9500 was causing serious camera clipping from being bright. You can turn the backlight down to easily fix that, but i wanted the same backlight setting for both.
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post #1271 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 01:08 AM
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That's true. High brightness is an essential part of HDR. However, it's the TV that supplies the extra brightness, not the source video. If you have an HDR capable TV, it can get you extra brightness for both UHD and UHD-HDR sources. If you're comparing on the same TV displays of the two different kinds of sources, there is no reason to expect the HDR sources will have higher brightness (unless there is some trickery with the TV's controls).

From everything I've read and what I've come to understand greg, its both. The brightness is encoded in the metadata, and the tv needs to be equipped to do what the metadata says. I have done comparisons using my meter to measure, and the hdr versions have brighter highlights using the same settings. I can't wait to see how the 940c handles hdr, according to a German website the 940c is 1300 nits, almost 25% more than the js9500.

I just wanna mention too, I've seen you defend the js9000 when it comes to 1080p upscale, and I too have really been blown away with the 1080p upscale compared to last year. Too bad cable TV isn't the same.

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post #1272 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 04:15 AM
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whatever is going on with your camera is screwing with the picture, the picture shouldnt be more cloudy with dynamic contrast turned on, it should be darker if anything. were you playing with the exposure or something?
Sorry. I had HDR turned On on my iPhone.

my JS8500 movie calibration settings as of 8/8/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post34495410
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post #1273 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 04:17 AM
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I have to say those HDR pics look horrible your blacks look grey entire picture is washed out..
Sorry. I had HDR turned On on my iPhone. They're black off camera.
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post #1274 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 04:28 AM
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Think more colours brighter image blacker blacks without losing details and whiter whites without washing out image as long as these are respected in HDR image is proper. like I stated I observe some black crush in high and some overblown whites as a purest I can't say high will give a reference image on hdr but imo up until med looks damn good. Try it first then report what u observe don't knock it until you try it ..
This is exactly what I was trying to say. Although I see black crush, I still use Dynamic Contrast at High for HDR because it really does make it look good. All my pics that I posted, although it looks blown out and grainy, the crush really happens at High and not so much with the lower levels.
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my JS8500 movie calibration settings as of 8/8/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post34495410
my JS8500 standard calibration settings as of 6/18/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post35124130

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post #1275 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 07:02 AM
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At a calibration standpoint, I'll have to agree with Greg Lee. Dynamic Contrast on High in regular content will crush blacks, but will show more light or colored details. I'm guessing this will also apply on UHD/HDR. But, I'm not against using Dynamic Contrast because I do have mine set to High for HDR content, but for other content/sources, I turn it off for the above mentioned reason.
Just a note on HDR: To my knowledge M-GO has not added a single HDR movie from it's inception, just the 5 or 5 they started with (forget whether it's 5 or 6)
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post #1276 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 08:14 AM
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From everything I've read and what I've come to understand greg, its both. The brightness is encoded in the metadata, and the tv needs to be equipped to do what the metadata says. I have done comparisons using my meter to measure, and the hdr versions have brighter highlights using the same settings.
Sure, the extra brightness is encoded in the source video, and sure, with the same settings, HDR sources should have brighter highlights. If you calibrate your TV in a standard way, peak brightness will be 100 nits for non-HDR sources, and for HDR sources it will be much higher -- 1000 nits, I guess, for these HDR movies.

That's all if you calibrate to a 100 nit standard for rec.709 sources. But who does that? Not me. I jack up peak brightness on my JS9000 for all sources, until it looks as good as I can get it. Consequently, I see nice bright highlights for non-HDR videos. So far as I know, I can get the highlights just as bright for any UHD movie as I can get it for a HDR-UHD movie.

I'm not saying that a UHD movie with the user controls set for extra brightness will look as good as a HDR-UHD movie; I'm just saying it will look as bright, if you set user controls appropriately. The HDR-UHD movie should look better, because the bright highlights on the screen should correspond better with bright highlights in the original scene, and because surfaces should be shown with less banding and with more color gradations.

So in looking for the goodness in these HDR-UHD movies (for me, that's just The Maze Runner and Exodus, so far), I'm not looking for extra brightness. I expected to see something a little more subtle. And I'm not seeing it.

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post #1277 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 08:32 AM
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Sure, the extra brightness is encoded in the source video, and sure, with the same settings, HDR sources should have brighter highlights. If you calibrate your TV in a standard way, peak brightness will be 100 nits for non-HDR sources, and for HDR sources it will be much higher -- 1000 nits, I guess, for these HDR movies.

That's all if you calibrate to a 100 nit standard for rec.709 sources. But who does that? Not me. I jack up peak brightness on my JS9000 for all sources, until it looks as good as I can get it. Consequently, I see nice bright highlights for non-HDR videos. So far as I know, I can get the highlights just as bright for any UHD movie as I can get it for a HDR-UHD movie.

I'm not saying that a UHD movie with the user controls set for extra brightness will look as good as a HDR-UHD movie; I'm just saying it will look as bright, if you set user controls appropriately. The HDR-UHD movie should look better, because the bright highlights on the screen should correspond better with bright highlights in the original scene, and because surfaces should be shown with less banding and with more color gradations.

So in looking for the goodness in these HDR-UHD movies (for me, that's just The Maze Runner and Exodus, so far), I'm not looking for extra brightness. I expected to see something a little more subtle. And I'm not seeing it.
Sorry for butting in on the conversation, but I do see the highlights on Exodus M-GO HDR. They are subtle, but they are there. Greg, I don't see what set you have. Am I missing your signature info? @GregLee
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post #1278 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 08:42 AM
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Greg, I don't see what set you have.
It's there in what you quoted from my post. JS9000 (supposedly 600 nits peak brightness).

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post #1279 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 08:52 AM
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It's there in what you quoted from my post. JS9000 (supposedly 600 nits peak brightness).
Sorry, didn't see you have JS9000 set. So I don't get it. You have a 2015 JS series TV, supposedly better than my 2014 HU900 (with the 3500u OCB). Why do I see the highlights and you don't? I think my nits are supposed to be close to yours.
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Just a note on HDR: To my knowledge M-GO has not added a single HDR movie from it's inception, just the 5 or 5 they started with (forget whether it's 5 or 6)
There's 7 now. They started with 4. They added Wild and The Longest Ride afterwards. Last one they had added was X-Men: Days of Future Past Rogue Cut. Hopefully, Fox will release their upcoming titles like Maze Runner 2, The Martian, and The Revenant on HDR. But at the rate they're going now, we probably won't see these movies in Bluray for another 3-5 months or so after they're shown in theaters and probably another month or 2 after that to be made available in MGO. So, we probably won't see any new titles in MGO this year unless Fox will re release their older titles in UHD HDR or other studios releasing their movies in UHD HDR too for MGO.

my JS8500 movie calibration settings as of 8/8/15 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post34495410
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post #1281 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 09:23 AM
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Sorry, didn't see you have JS9000 set. So I don't get it. You have a 2015 JS series TV, supposedly better than my 2014 HU900 (with the 3500u OCB). Why do I see the highlights and you don't? I think my nits are supposed to be close to yours.
I didn't say I don't see highlights. I do see them, for Exodus at least. But I also see highlights for non-HDR UHD videos. The highlights I see for non-HDR UHD are just as bright as those for HDR-UHD videos, given that my user controls are optimally adjusted to give nice highlights for each type of video.

What I'm trying to say here, and evidently not being clear enough, is that this is exactly what should be expected. The extra brightness of HDR is supplied by the TV, not the video. It can get really bright because of the LEDs Samsung used -- it's a physical thing. The brightness is not pumped in through the video signal. It may be licensed by what is in the video, but since you can set Contrast, Backlight, Dynamic Contrast as you please, you can make highlights as bright as you want them, up to the limit of what your TV can supply (600 nits, for me, perhaps 1000 nits for those with JS9500s). That's regardless of whether the metadata in the source video says it's "in the standard".

Whether the highlights look natural or not is something else, and there, HDR source should make a difference. But not in how bright the highlights get.

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post #1282 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
Sure, the extra brightness is encoded in the source video, and sure, with the same settings, HDR sources should have brighter highlights. If you calibrate your TV in a standard way, peak brightness will be 100 nits for non-HDR sources, and for HDR sources it will be much higher -- 1000 nits, I guess, for these HDR movies.

That's all if you calibrate to a 100 nit standard for rec.709 sources. But who does that? Not me. I jack up peak brightness on my JS9000 for all sources, until it looks as good as I can get it. Consequently, I see nice bright highlights for non-HDR videos. So far as I know, I can get the highlights just as bright for any UHD movie as I can get it for a HDR-UHD movie.

I'm not saying that a UHD movie with the user controls set for extra brightness will look as good as a HDR-UHD movie; I'm just saying it will look as bright, if you set user controls appropriately. The HDR-UHD movie should look better, because the bright highlights on the screen should correspond better with bright highlights in the original scene, and because surfaces should be shown with less banding and with more color gradations.

So in looking for the goodness in these HDR-UHD movies (for me, that's just The Maze Runner and Exodus, so far), I'm not looking for extra brightness. I expected to see something a little more subtle. And I'm not seeing it.
HDR calibration is not using outdated 100 nits for base. Tv's have long been able to produce of 300 nits once your set is calibrated for hdr u will have no problem seeing highlights. Truth be told apart form kingsman and exodus the rest of the hdr stuff that's out is just average as it should be in this early phase. The fox hdr demo clips are the most impressive hdr I have seen to date so this proves that coding of hdr is a big factor in output display.

We are going to have to be patient and wait for the proper release of 4k bluray HDR in the fall then we will start to see some amazing stuff. Fox is the only studio right now doing HDR so perhaps Universal has better HDR coding with more pronounced highlights ahhh we must wait

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post #1283 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 09:33 AM
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I ordered the Samsung UHD pack (with the 10 movies) and I tried to download a UHD with HDR movie and am having the same problem that everyone else is having. I tried all the recommendations discussed previously in this thread and had no success. Another thing i noticed on the drive I ordered from Samsung was that Night at the Museum was not showing up in the list of titles on my TV. However, if I plugged it into my PC I was able to see the video files for Night at the Museum, i thought that was strange. I put in a ticket with Samsung support and the tech was way off. He told me that my latest software version was 2121.8 and he typed it twice so i know it wasnt trying to type 1221.8 He also told me that I can not download M-Go movies on to that UHD drive because it already comes preloaded with movies. Im just going to return it and get the WD drive from my local best buy. I just wanted to be triple sure that the WD Cinema drive will work with the 3500. It seems you guys have a high success rate with it.
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post #1284 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I didn't say I don't see highlights. I do see them, for Exodus at least. But I also see highlights for non-HDR UHD videos. The highlights I see for non-HDR UHD are just as bright as those for HDR-UHD videos, given that my user controls are optimally adjusted to give nice highlights for each type of video.

What I'm trying to say here, and evidently not being clear enough, is that this is exactly what should be expected. The extra brightness of HDR is supplied by the TV, not the video. It can get really bright because of the LEDs Samsung used -- it's a physical thing. The brightness is not pumped in through the video signal. It may be licensed by what is in the video, but since you can set Contrast, Backlight, Dynamic Contrast as you please, you can make highlights as bright as you want them, up to the limit of what your TV can supply (600 nits, for me, perhaps 1000 nits for those with JS9500s). That's regardless of whether the metadata in the source video says it's "in the standard".

Whether the highlights look natural or not is something else, and there, HDR source should make a difference. But not in how bright the highlights get.
The highlights you see on non hdr are probably created by smart led high if you are using it which is a Pseudo hdr method. The metadata should read the tv capabilities and calibrate accordingly so if your tv has higher nits the metadata would know and tell the tv what to display. The tv's are much more complex than you think. The metadata controls the tv's settings in hdr mode. Hdr uses a completely different gamma curve from traditional rec 709 the metadata controls this look at the colour space settings in HDR mode the numbers are all kind of crazy in the colour space. Now watch a regular uhd movie and look @ the colour space numbers they are very tame in comparison . You are wrong metadata controls the gamma curve the luminance/brightness,black and white levels along with the colour gamut ..

You seem to need some more understanding on HDR and what it brings and how it works differently than anything we have had b4 this is a giant step in PQ. Here are some videos to help with knowledge .


http://blog.abelcine.com/2015/03/06/...nge-explained/

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...tvs-explained/

WHAT DOES HDR STAND FOR?


As keen photographers amongst you will know, HDR is short for High Dynamic Range. Essentially, it refers to an image that displays a greater range of brightness and luminosity than “normal” pictures – so dark areas of the picture will look darker while, at the same time, bright areas will look brighter. You’ll also see more luminance detail in shadowy, darker areas of the picture.

The images above, provided by Sony, demonstrate the difference between standard and high dynamic range pictures.


Read more at http://www.stuff.tv/features/why-its...DWyB3Yo8koA.99
Read more at http://www.stuff.tv/features/why-its...miEjJUEb9uJ.99


HDR TVs explained
You can think of HDR as the next step after 4K Ultra HD. At least that is how the industry is positioning it. 4K is “more pixels” – four times as many as HD – whereas HDR is “better pixels”. There is obviously much more to it than that.

HDR is short for high dynamic range, which implies that you are currently watching standard dynamic range. It is impossible to show you what it looks like – your monitor is not capable of HDR – but consider the simulated photo below (from Dolby). HDR on the right side.

In essence, HDR is about brighter whites and deeper blacks, and more details in each end. HDR is about reproducing the world around us on a display. Current displays are not capable of reproducing the world as it really is because the world is more than just pixels. Light is just as important. That might sound confusing but we will get back to that.

Imagine being able to see bright sunlight reflections on metallic surfaces or all the stars in the sky on a perfect black canvas, even have your TV reproduce the colors of the worlds around you such as Coca Cola red (your current TV cannot reproduce this color).

There is quite a bit of confusion around HDR and for good reason. There are several players in the industry that are trying to make HDR happen, and you might already have heard about Dolby Vision. There is also an open HDR standard that has been adopted by Blu-ray and other distribution channels. TV manufacturers have come up with even more names.

For example, Samsung calls its HDR-capable TVs “SUHD” and refer to the system that enables it “Peak illuminator”. Panasonic refers to it simply as HDR but calls a panel that supports it “Super Bright Panel”. Sony refers to it as HDR and to be sure you should look for “X-tended Dynamic Range” in the specifications sheet. All of this is just marketing. Other players such as Dolby are talking about Dolby Vision, which actually has more elements to it than just HDR.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1435052975


Why does HDR/WCG need metadata?
HDR / WCG metadata per program
• In order to quantify the creative color volume used, it is nec
necessary to have information on a per program basis so that
the correct conversion can be made between BT.2020 and B
T.709 for both SDR & HDR content.
• A draft SMPTE standard ST2086 describes the Mastering metadata required for SDR & HDR.


HDR / WCG metadata per scene
• In an outdoor scene full dynamic range of the mastering monitor is lik
likely to be used, average brightness level typically 2~5x higher than in
door content.
• How to map this to BT.709 100nit content where the average brightness
ess of the indoor and outdoor scenes are approximately the same.
• Requires different mappings for each scene.

• Can this mapping be done only by analysis of the HDR content i
n the player or TV?
• The simple answer is no, this requires a trim pass by a colorist t
o ensure the creative intent is maintained.
• Metadata can be created during the course of this process to
steer the player or TV to ensure that the optimum mapping is performed on a scene-by-scene basis to maintain creative intent.
Conclusion
• Scene based metadata is required to maintain creative intent when mapping from HD
R to SDR.
• Additional metadata elements can also be
included to optimize mapping performance.
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d...l2014.pptx.pdf

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post #1285 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 10:50 AM
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Look at this picture very carefully right now. This is how dolby had their HDR set up. call me crazy, but it looks like there could be a little crush going on in this picture, so maybe thats how its suppose to be. not sure. maybe its camera crush.
We are not going to see exactly what you are seeing without an ICC profile and proper white balance for your camera in the lighting, lens, and exposure that you are taking your photo's in and the profile "embedded" into your photo via Photoshop - would require RAW files in order to run through this process. Additionally an ICC profile would need to be done and applied to the monitor that the photos are being viewed on. This is the equivalent of a calibration for the camera and the monitor, and would vary dependent on the "taste" of the person creating the profiles - and the same would be applicable for anyone viewing the photos on their TV and their "taste", calibration, and settings.

When viewing from a print, the printer requires an ICC profile specific for the printer and the paper (which varies slightly from batch to batch) "embedded" into the file, and then viewed in the same light (color temp) as what the printer was profiled for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prme19 View Post
Sorry. I had HDR turned On on my iPhone. They're black off camera.
HDR for a camera requires a still subject as the camera "brackets" several exposures (multiple frames of ~3 to 7 -- depending on the camera settings) with a different f stop (lens opening) and stacks the frames and creates a single photo creating the wide range of dynamic exposure to create detail in both the dark and light areas of the photo which is not available in a single exposure. The HDR photo is also limited by potential lack of ICC profiling and viewing. A moving subject will induce what appears to be clouding (actually is blur from the subjects movement) and will be worse depending on the capabilities of the camera -- especially when using a cell phone or when not using a good tripod for stabilization during the multiple photos.

Technically, a monitor and a TV are not a still subject due to their display method.

Then there also is the resolution of the photo being posted on a hosting site and what the hosting site does to the photo. 72 PPI and sRGB are standard for web sites. Changing from RAW to JPEG will induce some slight change, but not as much as changing a photo originally taken in JPEG.

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post #1286 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 11:01 AM
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Let me get some:

@player002 , preach my brother.

This is not rocket science fellas. Our enthusiasm can get the best of us. We buy HIGH end sets and want high end results but this is boldly going where man has not gone before. This early HDR material is just OK, nothing spectacular. HDR is simply supposed to bring a brighter, more colorful picture with whiter whites and blacker blacks with more detail being seen in even the darkest areas, much closer to what our eyes actually see. A wise man said " If you cannot simply explain something then you do not understand it well enough ". I don't think we need to question Albert Einstein's genius.

I usually don't go for artificial picture enhancement but I have found that with this 4K material we can get away with far more WITHOUT ruining the picture. I am PRO dynamic contrast especially with HDR material but with a medium or less setting.
@ray0414 , If I am not mistaken you always say that HDR material is too dark. Your pictures of your 2014 set plus SEK-3500 do look TOO dark. I have taken some pictures of the same frames of the movies that you and others were using as examples as seen on my set. they are labelled DC_OFF and DC_MED (dynamic contrast). Congrats on that JS9500, it really is brighter but your pictures alarmed me because the 2014 set looked too dim in comparison. Check out my pics and tell me if you see a difference. By the way my picture settings are by @p5browne . When your settings are letting you down, go with p5browne LOL.
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post #1287 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
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The highlights you see on non hdr are probably created by smart led high if you are using it which is a Pseudo hdr method. The metadata should read the tv capabilities and calibrate accordingly so if your tv has higher nits the metadata would know and tell the tv what to display. The tv's are much more complex than you think.
I do have the Smart Led setting on high, and I do use pseudo-hdr to watch non-hdr sources. Isn't that just what I've been saying? Using your term, I'll make one more try to communicate. Pseudo-hdr techniques can give you bright highlights when viewing non-HDR sources. Therefore, for those of us who use those techniques, we can't expect to see a brightness difference between HDR and non-HDR UHD videos. HDR can be very bright, but non-HDR can be very bright, too. There should be differences between HDR and non-HDR, but not necessarily differences in brightness, because bright highlights may be due to pseudo-hdr.

I'm aware that metadata in HDR source can set up the TV in various ways. I never said or implied anything to the contrary.

I think that when you try to find extra brightness and contrast in the supposed HDR movies from MGO by manipulating user settings like Backlight, Contrast, Dynamic Contrast, Smart Led, you can do it okay, but that is just pseudo-hdr you're seeing, not the source HDR you paid for.

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post #1288 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 11:55 AM
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This is not rocket science fellas.
It may not be, but I play being one (a rocket scientist) while at work!

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post #1289 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I do have the Smart Led setting on high, and I do use pseudo-hdr to watch non-hdr sources. Isn't that just what I've been saying? Using your term, I'll make one more try to communicate. Pseudo-hdr techniques can give you bright highlights when viewing non-HDR sources. Therefore, for those of us who use those techniques, we can't expect to see a brightness difference between HDR and non-HDR UHD videos. HDR can be very bright, but non-HDR can be very bright, too. There should be differences between HDR and non-HDR, but not necessarily differences in brightness, because bright highlights may be due to pseudo-hdr.

I'm aware that metadata in HDR source can set up the TV in various ways. I never said or implied anything to the contrary.

I think that when you try to find extra brightness and contrast in the supposed HDR movies from MGO by manipulating user settings like Backlight, Contrast, Dynamic Contrast, Smart Led, you can do it okay, but that is just pseudo-hdr you're seeing, not the source HDR you paid for.
Okay, totally confused. If I'm watching Kingsman M-GO HDR, am I getting HDR or not? I don't bump up brightness, but do keep DC on high, so am I getting some form of HDR, weak is it may be, or are you saying, it's a complete hoax and I'm not getting HDR at all? It certainly really looks god to me, far better than 4K or BR and colors and highlights I've never seen before. And what is preventing not getting the source HDR I paid for?

And what exactly do you mean by pseudo-HDR? Is that like a pseudo-intellectual?
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post #1290 of 2338 Old 08-21-2015, 01:17 PM
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And what exactly do you mean by pseudo-HDR? Is that like a pseudo-intellectual?
pseudo-HDR ~= HDR Lite

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