Vizio Announces Pricing and Availability for Reference Series with Dolby Vision - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 109 Old 10-10-2015, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
You mean neither plays 1080p sources?
How did I give that impression?

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Also, according to Robert there will be a firmware update to the R series to allow 2.0a which should allow the R series to do the other HDR format.
Until I see it I'll judge the TV on what it can do now. Not potentially empty promises of what it might be able to do in the future.

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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
Won't that be one of the criteria for the HDR shootout, which variant of HDR is better? The SMPTE standard or Dolby Vision.
But if they can't each both play both formats you can't determine if the TV's hardware is responsible for a perceived advantage or the HDR format it supports. It's like doing a comparison with no control. That of course all assumes the same footage / clips are available in both SMPTE and DV HDR format. I'd expect that may be hard to find such clips due to exclusivity agreements each HDR format will have for certain movies.
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post #92 of 109 Old 10-10-2015, 10:50 AM
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So...who's going to be first to place an order?
When it's in the used like new bin for four grand it will still be too expensive.
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post #93 of 109 Old 10-10-2015, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
How are they going to compare the two when they don't support the same HDR formats? The Vizio only supports Dolby Vision and the Samsung doesn't support DV.
Its funny, I was thinking that same thing as I typed that post. I'm sure if you put all of those smart AV enthusiast in one room they will figure something out.

Also, as was mentioned by someone else, the Vizio R is expected to get a firmware update to allow it to display SMPTE HDR. Dolby is also working with other manufacturers to get Dolby Vision in their TVs so as I said in one of my other post, I'd be almost willing to bet that come next year the JS9500 will get the ability to play Dolby Vision HDR through either a firmware update or through a new One Connect box. I'm also fairly certain that all new 2016 Samsung SUHD models (and HDR models from LG, Sony and others) will have Dolby Vision capability out of the box.

The SMPTE standard has already been established as a required base layer for HDR but beyond that I think Dolby will win the HDR format war.
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post #94 of 109 Old 10-10-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
Does the extra metadata not take any bandwidth?
HDMI already has what's called EDID (Extended Display Identification Data). I assume that's where the meta data will be transferred. The signal source would let the TV know what form of HDR encoding is being used and then the TV Would apply the proper LUT (Look Up Table) to transform the input image into a linear output for our eyeballs. HDR is just a Gamma LUT like Rec709, sRGB or Rec2020 (Not to be confused with the colorspaces rec709, sRGB or Rec2020) and presumably all of the standards' luts will be stored on the TV side in the firmware ready to switch based on a content flag. Even if they aren't they could be transferred theoretically once at the beginning. "This is the HDR -> Linear LUT that this footage contains" and rely on the TV to apply its hardware specific tweaks to linearize its output.

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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
How are they going to compare the two when they don't support the same HDR formats? The Vizio only supports Dolby Vision and the Samsung doesn't support DV.
As a content producer this makes me want to crawl under a rock and cry. Ideally all of the footage should go from the colorist in a Digital Intermediate suite to disk and then back onto TV and look exactly the same as it did while the colorist was mastering the footage. Theoretically all of these HDR formats should be identical. The first HDR format whose content looks different than was intended by the creator, regardless of what file format it happened to be transported in, has failed. However since every TV will have a different peak output level that's not how it's going to work and every TV manufacturer is going to decide how the film "should look" within their brightness range. So now an engineer in Korea is going to decide how your favorite film 'should have' been graded. And we all know how TV manufacturers want an image to look...
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post #95 of 109 Old 10-11-2015, 10:29 AM
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Two years in the making and Much Ado About Nothing!

$6K - $130K with next to Zero UHD/HDR Content?

I love UHD 4K and HDR properly implemented is exciting but I've got to say this excitement is BS the Industry is feeding to us when the reality after 2+ years of Vizio promises and CES 2104/2015 and 2016 will promise us a Viagra Woody when reality is we get overpriced cream puff content = a fraction of a Library upon delivery or LACK thereof. Love viewing UHD but damn have any of you seen the Damn pricing at Amazon UHD for damn RERUN Movies? $25-$30 for damn rerun content - Really?

Perhaps an orgasmic happy ending would be worthy of such but for a refined material on old content has it's limits folks.

What the Hell is the UHD Alliance doing? Where's the UHD Broadcast Channels in the US Folks? Where's the Major Sports Channels using UHD? Next to NOTHING going into the third CES and Alliance for WHAT? Premiun Channels? UHD is AWESOME but it's availability in Broadcast, Cable, is BS and the Pricing for OLD Reruns in UHD at $25-$30 a Pop is INSANE! I can only watch my USB UHD Stick so many times. UHD Alliance is a FRAUD! Used at CES to Feed the Masses again and again!

Vizio late to the Table and certainly overpriced with no channels in UHD or HDR - Pkg such w them and it may work but this a car without wheels. Can't wait for another CES of BS unfulfilled Promises for UHD/HDR!
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post #96 of 109 Old 10-11-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
Two years in the making and Much Ado About Nothing!

$6K - $130K with next to Zero UHD/HDR Content?

I love UHD 4K and HDR properly implemented is exciting but I've got to say this excitement is BS the Industry is feeding to us when the reality after 2+ years of Vizio promises and CES 2104/2015 and 2016 will promise us a Viagra Woody when reality is we get overpriced cream puff content = a fraction of a Library upon delivery or LACK thereof. Love viewing UHD but damn have any of you seen the Damn pricing at Amazon UHD for damn RERUN Movies? $25-$30 for damn rerun content - Really?

Perhaps an orgasmic happy ending would be worthy of such but for a refined material on old content has it's limits folks.

What the Hell is the UHD Alliance doing? Where's the UHD Broadcast Channels in the US Folks? Where's the Major Sports Channels using UHD? Next to NOTHING going into the third CES and Alliance for WHAT? Premiun Channels? UHD is AWESOME but it's availability in Broadcast, Cable, is BS and the Pricing for OLD Reruns in UHD at $25-$30 a Pop is INSANE! I can only watch my USB UHD Stick so many times. UHD Alliance is a FRAUD! Used at CES to Feed the Masses again and again!

Vizio late to the Table and certainly overpriced with no channels in UHD or HDR - Pkg such w them and it may work but this a car without wheels. Can't wait for another CES of BS unfulfilled Promises for UHD/HDR!

Thats the price people pay for being early adopters. Nobody is forcing anybody to be an early adopter.

I certainly wouldnt call it "must ado about nothing". All the people who attended Vizios' launch conference came away very impressed with the dolby vision demos. Including Robert Zohn, the owner of value electronics that hosts the shootout every year. He said the demos he seen were the best visual demos hes ever seen on a display.

As for UHD channels, that has nothing to do with the UHD alliance. If you have an issue with that, you would need to take it up with comcast/dish/directv or whomever your provider is. THEY are late to the party, not vizio or samsung or sony.

-A cable company in Europe launched a 4k sports channel back in august.

-Last week, Rogers cable company in Southern Ontario, Canada, announced that come 2016, they will be broadcasting EVERY Toronto Blue Jays home game in UHD in HDR (81 games), along with over 20 NHL games. If this chaps your ass like it does mine, then blame your cable company (in my case its comcast). But keep in mine, these early adoptor broadcasts wont be cheap either. the Rogers 4k sports channel requires a $150 internet package. Cable/dish is coming around, but its a slow movement depending on which parts of the world you are in, cant blame vizio for that.

in case you missed it, the first UHD player is set to hit the japan market on november 15th, hardly a month away. let them be the ginuea pigs :P

The vudu dolby vision HDR section is only like 8 movies but very impressive titles (max max, edge of tomorrow, san andreas) and will only grow as we turn the corner on 2015, basically every movie that comes out next year will be in UHD, so chill out
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post #97 of 109 Old 10-11-2015, 11:28 AM
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Hindsight is wonderful. It enables us to point out errors with perfect accuracy.

Yes, Vizio probably wishes they could have announced the R Series much closer to the availability date. Let's look at what actually happened.

Vizio and Dolby entered an agreement for Vizio to be the lead TV manufacturer supporting Dolby Vision and the R Series, the first TV supporting Dolby Vision, was announced at CES 2014. The availability was contingent on the release of content supporting Dolby Vision.

Well, the best laid plans can go awry and they certainly did here. Last week we finally got the R Series announement from Vizio and Dolby Vision Content from Dolby.

We now know that the R Series will not initially be sold directly from Vizio. Visiting the Vizio Website will allow a potential Customer to Click and enter their contact information. Vizio will then forward the information to a "Custom Installer" that will handle the purchase. This seems to make sense for the R120, not so much for the R65.

The pricing for the R120 does not seem to be out of line given the pricing of available smaller sets. The R65 pricing has created much anguish and gnashing of teeth. I am not surprised by the feeling that the R65 is horribly over priced. However, I believe that some important information has been missed.

1. There have been NO Reviews of the R65 and most of the folks who think it is overpriced have not seen the R65.

2. There has been a Major upgrade to the initially announced R65 with the addition of Quantum Dots.

3. The price includes a very capable 5.1 Sound System. (This is not a plus for most of us on AVS, but we are only a small fraction of the Market.)

4. The initial price, most likely, includes a greater profit margin for custom installers.

I, for one, will wait to see reviews and owner comments before making judgments on the value offered by the R65.

Early reports from those who have seen the R Series in action indicate that it is possible Vizio has produced the best UHDTV currently available.

BTW, has anyone seen an LG OLED or other LED TV displaying HDR Content? If so, could you please post your impressions?
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post #98 of 109 Old 10-11-2015, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RDHolmes View Post

Early reports from those who have seen the R Series in action indicate that it is possible Vizio has produced the best UHDTV currently available.
If in fact this is true, what would people be willing to pay for the best TV on the market? When you compare that price to other TOTL sets, it is not so out of line especially when you add in the best out of the box sound system for any TV. Early adopters and those who just must have the best of everything would buy it even if the price were higher. My first "big screen" TV was a 37" rear projection CRT that I bought in the mid-eighties for almost $4000. When you compare the value of this set to that set based on today's dollar, it is a near give away. If you want to be a early adopter, be prepared to pay for it.
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post #99 of 109 Old 10-11-2015, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
Two years in the making and Much Ado About Nothing!

$6K - $130K with next to Zero UHD/HDR Content?

I love UHD 4K and HDR properly implemented is exciting but I've got to say this excitement is BS the Industry is feeding to us when the reality after 2+ years of Vizio promises and CES 2104/2015 and 2016 will promise us a Viagra Woody when reality is we get overpriced cream puff content = a fraction of a Library upon delivery or LACK thereof. Love viewing UHD but damn have any of you seen the Damn pricing at Amazon UHD for damn RERUN Movies? $25-$30 for damn rerun content - Really?

Perhaps an orgasmic happy ending would be worthy of such but for a refined material on old content has it's limits folks.

What the Hell is the UHD Alliance doing? Where's the UHD Broadcast Channels in the US Folks? Where's the Major Sports Channels using UHD? Next to NOTHING going into the third CES and Alliance for WHAT? Premiun Channels? UHD is AWESOME but it's availability in Broadcast, Cable, is BS and the Pricing for OLD Reruns in UHD at $25-$30 a Pop is INSANE! I can only watch my USB UHD Stick so many times. UHD Alliance is a FRAUD! Used at CES to Feed the Masses again and again!

Vizio late to the Table and certainly overpriced with no channels in UHD or HDR - Pkg such w them and it may work but this a car without wheels. Can't wait for another CES of BS unfulfilled Promises for UHD/HDR!
I am on the same page as you are.....
its like that commercial says..."....wait for it......wait for it "...lol

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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Thats the price people pay for being early adopters. Nobody is forcing anybody to be an early adopter.

The vudu dolby vision HDR section is only like 8 movies but very impressive titles (max max, edge of tomorrow, san andreas) and will only grow as we turn the corner on 2015, basically every movie that comes out next year will be in UHD, so chill out
Not sure I would call this situation an early adopter
For example....Early adopters were those that a bought blu ray ( or HD DVD) player when they first came out
there was ample media available in the first year

The cable/satellite companies clearly arent being pushed by the TV manufacturers.....
That day will come IF they want to sell 4K Tv's to the masses..or better stated...to give someone a reason to go out an and buy a TV to replace their perfectly functioning 1080P model

Without mainstream shows like ESPN etc in 4K()...Tv's sales will slide

They can make 4K Tv's at the same price( or less) than 1080P models were
However I dont think the masses are going to run out and replace what they have until we see some mainstream media in 4K



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post #100 of 109 Old 10-11-2015, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
Two years in the making and Much Ado About Nothing!

$6K - $130K with next to Zero UHD/HDR Content?

I love UHD 4K and HDR properly implemented is exciting but I've got to say this excitement is BS the Industry is feeding to us when the reality after 2+ years of Vizio promises and CES 2104/2015 and 2016 will promise us a Viagra Woody when reality is we get overpriced cream puff content = a fraction of a Library upon delivery or LACK thereof. Love viewing UHD but damn have any of you seen the Damn pricing at Amazon UHD for damn RERUN Movies? $25-$30 for damn rerun content - Really?

Perhaps an orgasmic happy ending would be worthy of such but for a refined material on old content has it's limits folks.

What the Hell is the UHD Alliance doing? Where's the UHD Broadcast Channels in the US Folks? Where's the Major Sports Channels using UHD? Next to NOTHING going into the third CES and Alliance for WHAT? Premiun Channels? UHD is AWESOME but it's availability in Broadcast, Cable, is BS and the Pricing for OLD Reruns in UHD at $25-$30 a Pop is INSANE! I can only watch my USB UHD Stick so many times. UHD Alliance is a FRAUD! Used at CES to Feed the Masses again and again!

Vizio late to the Table and certainly overpriced with no channels in UHD or HDR - Pkg such w them and it may work but this a car without wheels. Can't wait for another CES of BS unfulfilled Promises for UHD/HDR!
I've found your posts to very entertaining despite not agreeing with anything you have posted but you may have a point with the lack of UHD content for these UHD televisions to play. I'm not sure how you reason that Vizio is late to the table because of this, if anything you could argue they're still too early. At least give them credit for timing their launch with the availability of Dolby Vision HDR titles from VUDU.

There's actually two story lines going on here, we all know about the launch of the R series but the 2nd story line is that it sounds like VUDU has leapfrogged Amazon and Netflix with UHD/HDR UHD PQ per imagic's comments from this Summer.
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post #101 of 109 Old 10-14-2015, 07:41 AM
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MStar Adopts Dolby Vision for 4K Ultra HD TV SoCs

Dolby Labs just issued an interesting press release.

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post #102 of 109 Old 10-14-2015, 07:41 AM
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Now that I'm over the post limit, here's the link to the press release: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mst...ocs-2015-10-14
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post #103 of 109 Old 10-14-2015, 12:05 PM
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Now that I'm over the post limit, here's the link to the press release: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mst...ocs-2015-10-14
Thanks. So I think this gives us a good idea of the tech that will be used in the 2016 P-Series .
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post #104 of 109 Old 10-17-2015, 08:55 AM
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Here's a pic of the R-120 I took at CEDIA this week. I purposely took it with people standing in front of it so you can better gauge just how huge this beast is . . . Can't really comment on PQ as the lighting at the conference does not really enhance the viewing experience.

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post #105 of 109 Old 10-17-2015, 09:21 AM
 
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Here's a pic of the R-120 I took at CEDIA this week. I purposely took it with people standing in front of it so you can better gauge just how huge this beast is . . . Can't really comment on PQ as the lighting at the conference does not really enhance the viewing experience.
If they ever get the pricing of these thing to a reasonable level, that could be the end of the projector market.
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post #106 of 109 Old 10-17-2015, 10:09 AM
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If they ever get the pricing of these thing to a reasonable level, that could be the end of the projector market.
The only way I could ever see this happening is if they invented some kind of cheap oled sheet that you could roll out on your wall to your own size specifications.
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post #107 of 109 Old 10-17-2015, 10:58 AM
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If they ever get the pricing of these thing to a reasonable level, that could be the end of the projector market.
I believe that over time the price will drop - how much is unknown. Since this is Vizio's flagship line, I'm pretty certain that they are hand selecting the panels as they come off the line. Probably rejecting a large percentage that don't measure up to specs. That is obviously driving the cost way up. The cost of the processing system is probably a very small percentage of the total cost to make it. Once that line get's cranking, and the percentage of acceptable panels on the increase, we could see some serious price drops. I would imagine that the "M" series will benefit from that increased yield.

Just speculating at this point, but I can envision that size screen coming in around $20k in the not too distant future. At that point, it will be very competitive with projectors, and you won't have to place it in a pitch black room anymore.

Although some would disagree with me, I think that the 65" is actually priced well. I know there are other brands that are cheaper in that same screen size, but what we don't know are things like the number of dimming zones, processing, etc. Other than Toshiba ( 65" FALD - 500 zones - $20K ), Vizio is the only other TV manufacturer that actually states among other things, how many zones are in their sets. The R, with 384 zones wasn't cheap to do - and it's less than 1/3 the price of the Toshiba.

Can't wait to read a review!
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post #108 of 109 Old 10-18-2015, 10:33 AM
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If they ever get the pricing of these thing to a reasonable level, that could be the end of the projector market.
Not unless they figure out how to make it acoustically transparent and how to get it into most rooms / houses.
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post #109 of 109 Old 10-19-2015, 01:10 PM
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Mark Henninger is attending the press event in New York as I write this, and he will provide more details in his coverage. Meanwhile, I'm delighted that the wait for this remarkable TV is almost over!

What coverage?
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