2016 Sony xbr 850D - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 398 Old 03-18-2016, 11:12 PM
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So, I returned the 850D. I was initially thrilled with the vibrancy, but after spending some time watching different types of things... I realized how much I missed the deep blacks of the 930C.

Btw... Frys will match the Best Buy price of 2499 for a 930C, plus no tax on 4k's.
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post #332 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 04:12 AM
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I currently have an 850B in the living room. Want to upgrade to an 850D or 930D. Thoughts?
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post #333 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpermike View Post
So, I returned the 850D. I was initially thrilled with the vibrancy, but after spending some time watching different types of things... I realized how much I missed the deep blacks of the 930C.

Btw... Frys will match the Best Buy price of 2499 for a 930C, plus no tax on 4k's.
Get the 950b or the x940c...all other models have terrible light bleeding issues. I bought 2 x930c's and returned both of them. Would never recommend that model. I now have a Samsung JS8500 and enjoying it much more. Good Luck
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post #334 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Aniwolfe View Post
Get the 950b or the x940c...all other models have terrible light bleeding issues. I bought 2 x930c's and returned both of them. Would never recommend that model. I now have a Samsung JS8500 and enjoying it much more. Good Luck
I think Sony is digging its own grave, and has been for a long time. I've had plenty of Sony products all my life, and many of them have had problems that were not inherent to the unit, but bad designs. But at least the Sony TV sets that I've had were good. However, in 2010 I bought a Sony 1080p set and ended up exchanging it for a Samsung because it had more clouding than I had seen ever before on a TV set. Granted, this was the cheapest Sony at BJ's, but the Samsung I exchanged it for also was the cheapest and it looked way better, with barely any clouding. In the Sony's case, I'm talking about the kind of clouding that would show in bright areas, not just in dark areas.

Same thing now, the 850D is another Sony set that is extremely disappointing for its horrible black levels (and I'm not as demanding as the person who pays $5,000 for a set with perfect blacks, whether t's plasma, OLED or whatever). I got a Samsung JS7000 which is larger, has far better picture quality and decent black levels.

It's obvious to me that if you want a good Sony TV set, you have to pay thousands of dollars for their high end models, and everything below that is garbage. With Samsung, you can get the cheapest line and it will look great, even if not as good as their high end line, but still very good.

I also have 4 Sony Blu-ray players, years 2007, 2010, 2013 and 2016 (or it might be 2015, I'm not sure but I just bought it). Blu-ray players are one of the few Sony products that are good and reliable, but just to make a comparison I also bought a Samsung player. I could tell from the moment I started watching a movie that it looked way better than the Sony.

So for me, Sony is dead.
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post #335 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aniwolfe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpermike View Post
So, I returned the 850D. I was initially thrilled with the vibrancy, but after spending some time watching different types of things... I realized how much I missed the deep blacks of the 930C.

Btw... Frys will match the Best Buy price of 2499 for a 930C, plus no tax on 4k's.
Get the 950b or the x940c...all other models have terrible light bleeding issues. I bought 2 x930c's and returned both of them. Would never recommend that model. I now have a Samsung JS8500 and enjoying it much more. Good Luck
I must have gotten lucky. I have zero light bleed on this 930C. I have one small banding strip that was a shade darker than the rest... But I massaged it out to where it is barely noticeable. Plus the TV is 100lbs.. And where I bought it is 60 miles away. I can live with it I think.

I originally wanted a JS8500, but every single place I went to look at one has ridiculous light bleed on both sides. And the silver bezel. I would of had to wrap it in black vinyl lol.
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post #336 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDeutsch View Post
Well... caveats abound here:

They reviewed the 55" and claim it's an IPS display. We know that IPS have bad contrast, so these results should be of little surprise. The big question is: Do the 65/75/85 also have IPS? If not, then the results could vary widely.

Last year, they also reviewed the 55" unit, which was the only edge-lit unit of the bunch. As a result, we really do not know how they would have reviewed the back-lit versions. Would the contrast be worse? Judder? Who knows!

Just saying that there are a lot of variable at play here...difficult to drive a firm conclusion based on this.
The 850D 65" is also IPS where I personally observed the pixel structure.
The unconfirmed word is that all sizes in the 850D are IPS. We know the 55" and 65" are.
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post #337 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post
The 850D 65" is also IPS where I personally observed the pixel structure.
The unconfirmed word is that all sizes in the 850D are IPS. We know the 55" and 65" are.
If I find a 75" screen, how can I identify IPS from the pixel structure?
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post #338 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JonDeutsch View Post
If I find a 75" screen, how can I identify IPS from the pixel structure?
IPS pixels are like an arrow head. VA is rectangular.
You will need a magnifying glass, and you should freeze the picture, or view a larger static area.
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post #339 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 08:38 PM
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OK, so I joined this thread to learn more about the 850D, hoping to confirm that it would be an improvement over the 850C in both Android TV performance and overall picture quality and performance.

It looks like the early jury is in, and the TV performance has somehow gone down and the Android TV performance is identical.

If this is the case, then I had either better get on quick with picking up a 850C or wait another 9-10 months before the 940D is under around 5K.
I do wish I could stomach the side speakers on the 940C because at the current prices it's the only "good deal" that has SONY imprinted on it. :-\

Sigh. Why does Sony make it so hard for me to buy one of their products???
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post #340 of 398 Old 03-19-2016, 09:33 PM
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Just got back from the local BB, and saw the 55X850C is down to $999. They had a 65X850C and 65X850D side by side and in the bright showroom, the D did seem to have slightly deeper colors, but my wife thought they looked identical. I thought both looked pretty good but again, it was bright, and it's moot since I'm in the market for a 55 anyway.

I really thought the D would be an improvement over the C but after reading the last 8 pages or so, it seems like I might actually be better off with the C. (Did they really go back to IPS again? Do they learn nothing??) I thought the CPU for Android TV would be faster in the D but that's not looking clear either. Guess I'll pull the trigger on the C! I also thought the bezel design looked cheaper on the D, which is disappointing.

[Edit: just noticed it was a 3-day BB sale that ends today, so went ahead and ordered the 55X850C @ $999. Fingers crossed!]

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post #341 of 398 Old 03-20-2016, 12:18 AM
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850d
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post #342 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 07:02 AM
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From the RTINGS.com review of the 850D.

"There are no obvious clouding or flashlighting issues"

It is almost like he refuses to look at his own pictures from his review. All I see is clouding.

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post #343 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
From the RTINGS.com review of the 850D.

"There are no obvious clouding or flashlighting issues"

It is almost like he refuses to look at his own pictures from his review. All I see is clouding.
If you look at a lot of TVs eventually what you once considered bad isn't so bad after seeing what really bad clouding is. Obviously its subjective.

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post #344 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
If you look at a lot of TVs eventually what you once considered bad isn't so bad after seeing what really bad clouding is. Obviously its subjective.
A little dose of reality is healthy, even here at AVSForum where insufferable standards are beyond dispute. Folks who take free delivery of gigantic, heavy televisions just to try them out at home, Goldilocks-style, then return them because they are capable of spotting the slightest clouding, are basically sociopathic when it comes to ethical behavior by consumers.

I just got my 65X850C this week, and with the lights off, I can spot a minor inconsistency in brightness on a blank screen. I am totally not going to queen out about this. Big deal!
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post #345 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 03:10 PM
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Can someone explain why the 850d would perform better for sports(fast moving) then the 850c regarding the Rtings review?
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post #346 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 06:24 PM
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Can someone explain why the 850d would perform better for sports(fast moving) then the 850c regarding the Rtings review?
Good question.
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post #347 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 06:52 PM
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Can someone explain why the 850d would perform better for sports(fast moving) then the 850c regarding the Rtings review?
The truth is that the X850C is better than the 850D for motion handling. This will be more noticeable with computers and some games but almost indistinguishable for regular TV viewing. However, RTINGS.com refuses to look at their own pictures to determine their conclusions so they just base everything on one single number(Response Time).

Yes the X850D has a pixel response time of 10.3 seconds and the X850C has a response time of 16.5 ms. However, both of those times are less than 1 frame of 60 FPS video so they are essentially irrelevant. Instead you really need to look at the sample motion blur images and the response graphs that RTINGS.com provides. When you compare those things you will see that the X850D has more motion blur and also some additional faint highlight trailing. It isn't hugely different but it definitely isn't better as you can see below.

You can trust the data that RTINGS.com provides because they are methodical with their tests. However, his conclusions are almost always widely off base. You have to look at the data yourself to determine the correct conclusion. It is clear from the pictures below that the X850C has the better pixel response and less motion blur.

X850C


X850D
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post #348 of 398 Old 03-22-2016, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpmoon View Post
A little dose of reality is healthy, even here at AVSForum where insufferable standards are beyond dispute. Folks who take free delivery of gigantic, heavy televisions just to try them out at home, Goldilocks-style, then return them because they are capable of spotting the slightest clouding, are basically sociopathic when it comes to ethical behavior by consumers.

I just got my 65X850C this week, and with the lights off, I can spot a minor inconsistency in brightness on a blank screen. I am totally not going to queen out about this. Big deal!
Ill agree that people here maybe a little unrealistic with expectation but we are the 1%. Most people would buy a set that most AVS members would deem defective and call it good. Lots of us are sensitive.

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post #349 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 12:32 AM
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What I got out of the sports review isn't so much the motion... It's the banding and uniformity that makes grassy fields look funky when the camera pans.
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post #350 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpmoon View Post
A little dose of reality is healthy, even here at AVSForum where insufferable standards are beyond dispute. Folks who take free delivery of gigantic, heavy televisions just to try them out at home, Goldilocks-style, then return them because they are capable of spotting the slightest clouding, are basically sociopathic when it comes to ethical behavior by consumers.

I just got my 65X850C this week, and with the lights off, I can spot a minor inconsistency in brightness on a blank screen. I am totally not going to queen out about this. Big deal!

haha yeah, some people will NEVER be happy. Even if the tv looks great in every aspect....but if it fails a completely black screen it must be returned! As if people are watching a black screen 24/7
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post #351 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 08:05 AM
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Would you guys recommend this 850D over the Js8500? At my best buy the JS8500 is $100 cheaper than the 850D currently.
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post #352 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DrexelDragon93 View Post
Would you guys recommend this 850D over the Js8500? At my best buy the JS8500 is $100 cheaper than the 850D currently.
While the JS8500 has its issues id take it over the 850D.


The JS8500 give you a VA panel (better contrast), local dimming, 3D, a much wider color gamut and is much brighter.

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post #353 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 10:07 AM
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My local magnolia store just set up the 850d and I demoed the Lego movie. Not bad. Definitely doesn't have inky blacks. glare was pretty bad with all the lights but so is my 850b.

Tempting but I may want to wait for the 930d.
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post #354 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post
The 850D 65" is also IPS where I personally observed the pixel structure.
The unconfirmed word is that all sizes in the 850D are IPS. We know the 55" and 65" are.
And yet, from a post a bit above yours:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
Unless something has changed this year, which is possible, then the 75" and 85" sizes should be using a VA panel. I think LG has a 75" UH8500 coming out for 2016 which means that LG is making a 75" IPS panel this year, or they're simply using someone else's panel (they had a 70" UF7700 last year that didn't use an IPS panel). Traditionally LG makes 84" IPS panels and not 85" but we'll have to wait and see.
I tried to search for panels, and came across this site. The URL is set to limit the search to everything >= 80 inches that is VA; there are plenty. The same search, but limited to IPS is here.

This pretty much supports the statement @fatuglyguy made. Looks like LG still only makes 84" panels in IPS and there are no 85" IPS panels. I'm not sure that panelook is entirely up-to-date, but if so, I'm hopeful that at least the 85" set is VA.

Having said that, I suppose edge-lit on an 85" set is also probably going to suck, so...maybe it won't matter that it is VA.

Guess we'll see. I really want my next set to be > 75".

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post #355 of 398 Old 03-23-2016, 07:04 PM
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I took delivery of my 65X850D today. I am no expert, but so far I am very impressed. After the initial setup, I watched Kung Fu Panda on Bluray. I thought the PQ was great. Then I ran the AVS 709 test patterns through my system and took photos. I also loaded and ran Aida64 to get the hardware info. I also ran the 2160p Gradient 10bit test pattern from a USB stick. It looked smooth with no banding.

I am a photographer, so I could not just use my iPhone. I used my Canon 5D Mark III. This camera cost more than the TV! Camera was in full manual mode. ISO 100, f/4.0, and a custom white balance set to 6500K. The camera was on a tripod and the shutter speed was set to get the right exposure.

Attached is a small version of the 10bit gradient. All 14 photos I took are on my flickr page here at full resolution.

Here is the link: https://flic.kr/s/aHskweoJXf

I hope that link works.

I welcome any comments from the experts on any flaws or not indicated in the full res photos.


Note: All TV settings were as is out of the box. I will start tweaking now...

Cheers,
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post #356 of 398 Old 03-24-2016, 04:28 AM
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Congrats!
Please make a macrophoto pixel structure and a few pics from the movies.
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post #357 of 398 Old 03-24-2016, 06:41 PM
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Greg Jones
Congrats!
Please make a macrophoto pixel structure and a few pics from the movies.
I do not have a macro lens, but I gave it a try with a long lens to try and see the pixel structure. See attached pics.

I also took a few movie shots.

Regards,
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post #358 of 398 Old 03-25-2016, 10:59 AM
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For owners of this set, hoping for a bit of measurement help while I await delivery of mine. For wall mounting, thinking to put cable plate connections into the wall in the space behind the TV. Not against the fat part of the back, but in the space behind the thin part of the screen on the left of the hump. Can any of you owners provide dimensions of that 'hollow' space, and exactly how high from the bottom it begins?

Thanks in advance.
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post #359 of 398 Old 03-26-2016, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by xoph3 View Post
For owners of this set, hoping for a bit of measurement help while I await delivery of mine. For wall mounting, thinking to put cable plate connections into the wall in the space behind the TV. Not against the fat part of the back, but in the space behind the thin part of the screen on the left of the hump. Can any of you owners provide dimensions of that 'hollow' space, and exactly how high from the bottom it begins?

Thanks in advance.
On my 65X850D, the thin part of the back starts at about 21" from the bottom.

Sony XBR-65X850D; Emotiva XMC-1 Pre/Pro; Emotiva XPA-7 Gen 3 Amp; OPPO BDP-203; Paradigm Monitor 7 Mains; Paradigm CC-370 Center; Paradigm Titan Surrounds; Velodyne DLS3750R Sub
Greg Jones is offline  
post #360 of 398 Old 03-26-2016, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Jones View Post
On my 65X850D, the thin part of the back starts at about 21" from the bottom.


Thanks for that. I'm assuming that is from the centre? On the left and right sides, the fat part seems to go up a lot less than that - 3 or 4 inches it looks?
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