Vizio 2016 P-Series UHD/HDR TVs no price talk please - Page 57 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1681 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
As crazy as this sounds... 50" is now a medium size TV (and 32" are now considered small). So the best glass out there has moved to 60hz since it is not considered a large size TV. Also as the screen size gets smaller the effect of 60 v 120 is greatly reduced.

But broader... as i mentioned in a previous post. I am no longer a fan of MEMC personally. And without MEMC all TVs are 60hz (or less since content is either 24, 30 or 60 - almost no 120hz content unless playing high end games at 1080p). So I run everything, even my new P75 at the content native speed (maximum of 60hz) because that is how the Director intended the content to be seen.

I understand if you like MEMC it makes a difference, but for those of us that don't and want to see the content as captured by the Director... 60Hz is perfect.
BTW... this post is in reference to FPS from source. We do deploy scanning backlights to improve motion and reduce blur which takes a 60FPS panel and makes it 120HZ or higher because of the strobe. There is a phenomenon called Retinal Retention where the scanning backlight can significant improve motion blur (separate from judder discussion above). By changing the speed of the pulse we can effectively reduce perceived motion blur and effectively get to an equivalent 960Hz (with MEMC on P Series).

But as I mentioned this is motion blur reduction and is separate from MEMC which is interpolating frames that I was talking about above for smoothing out judder from the source material (soap opera effect). The good news with scanning backlight above is that it does not create the soap opera effect so it is an independent control.

Different methods that have different effects and we have separated them in the controls so you can independently control.
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post #1682 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
BTW... this post is in reference to FPS from source. We do deploy scanning backlights to improve motion and reduce blur which takes a 60FPS panel and makes it 120HZ or higher because of the strobe. There is a phenomenon called Retinal Retention where the scanning backlight can significant improve motion blur (separate from judder discussion above). By changing the speed of the pulse we can effectively reduce perceived motion blur and effectively get to an equivalent 960Hz (with MEMC on P Series).

But as I mentioned this is motion blur reduction and is separate from MEMC which is interpolating frames that I was talking about above for smoothing out judder from the source material (soap opera effect). The good news with scanning backlight above is that it does not create the soap opera effect so it is an independent control.

Different methods that have different effects and we have separated them in the controls so you can independently control.
Ive always found backlight scanning drops the overall light output too much in a bright room to make it practical. Maybe with the beefier backlights it will work better.

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post #1683 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:48 AM
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I connected my pc to the p65 and got 4:4:4 at 30. When i tried 60 the screen got all green and purple on me.
Can you PM me your PC, graphics card and contact info... Thanks
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post #1684 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
Ive always found backlight scanning drops the overall light output too much in a bright room to make it practical. Maybe with the beefier backlights it will work better.
Yes. That is the tradeoff but with much brighter backlights you can reduce a lot of motion blur before getting to a point where the display is dim... and this is why we make it user controllable
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post #1685 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
As you can imagine... we are now getting close to secret sauce :-) I can tell you that the panels are true 10bit (not 8bit + FRC dithering etc). And I can tell you that to reach this color fidelity we modified LED phosphors and chemistry AND spec'd custom color filters.

We have no plans for UHD Bluray... there will be tons of players out there... we are focused on maximizing streaming quality and quality from external sources.
Kudos Vizio! A true 10-bit panel! I really appreciate your response.


I was so wrapped up in the UHD Alliance garbage, with the whole HDR Premium vs HDR compatible debacle. Yuk. The 2016 TV year was looking ugly till Vizio stepped up and knocked it out the park. The technology and specifications are absolutely amazing at this price point. Thank you Vizio!
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post #1686 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Yes. That is the tradeoff but with much brighter backlights you can reduce a lot of motion blur before getting to a point where the display is dim... and this is why we make it user controllable
Thanks Matt. Incredible customer service to have this level of interaction and answering questions with a level of detail and sophistication that is really appreciated. Any chance you could comment on this post re: Calibration?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post42684898
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post #1687 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
Thanks for making me aware of that confusing statement in the FAQ. You were talking about this, right?
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm..._4_faq.aspx#15
Which audio formats are supported over the Audio Return Channel?

The Audio Return Channel supports all the same audio formats that can be sent through a traditional S/PDIF audio connection, including Dolby Digital, DTS, and PCM audio.



I just sent an email to some people, let's see how long it takes to get this fixed.
Yes, that's the one. I know I'm not the only one around these parts using that as a reference to conclude (and erroneously spread) that ARC was limited to SPDIF.

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post #1688 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:05 AM
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Not yet, but a firmware update is supposed to be coming soon. Should happen before the tv gets the HDR 10 update.
Great, thanks for the reply!
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post #1689 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Yes. That is the tradeoff but with much brighter backlights you can reduce a lot of motion blur before getting to a point where the display is dim... and this is why we make it user controllable
Matt, your input has been very valuable and appreciated. I've switched direction from the 930D to the P series. I have one additional question on glare/reflections. Have you made any improvements in this area over the 2015 E or M series (shown in ratings link) or is it about the same?

http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/livin...tte-and-glossy
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post #1690 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
As you can imagine... we are now getting close to secret sauce :-) I can tell you that the panels are true 10bit (not 8bit + FRC dithering etc). And I can tell you that to reach this color fidelity we modified LED phosphors and chemistry AND spec'd custom color filters.

We have no plans for UHD Bluray... there will be tons of players out there... we are focused on maximizing streaming quality and quality from external sources.
Ok, 10-bit too. Now you are just making us Europeans jealous with the P series reasonably-priced FALD 4k Dolby Vision HDR goodness .

I know there is 50Hz processing and all that to worry about, but would the new casting-based smart platform make it easier for Vizio to expand to the European market as well? You could start, for example, with some small experimental market like Scandinavia
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post #1691 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:14 AM
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Ok, 10-bit too. Now you are just making us Europeans jealous with the P series reasonably-priced FALD HDR 4k Dolby Vision goodness .

I know there is 50Hz processing and all that to worry about, but would the new casting-based smart platform make it easier for Vizio to expand to the European market as well? You could start, for example, with some small experimental market like Scandinavia
Well, certainly you can be more specific than "Scandinavia"? Perhaps your home address??

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post #1692 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:20 AM
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Is best Buy the only retailer you can get these?

not a huge deal but woudl be nice to avoid the tax.
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post #1693 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:21 AM
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Matt, not to hijack the subject here, but to utilize Dolby Vision, any idea if Vizio will be releasing a Dolby Vision enable 4K disk player and if so any time frame?
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post #1694 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Yes. That is the tradeoff but with much brighter backlights you can reduce a lot of motion blur before getting to a point where the display is dim... and this is why we make it user controllable
I am not sure if you follow Rtings at all, which just reviewed the D Series here:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/d-series-4k-2016

One of the criticisms of the 2015 M Series was how it handled motion. Can you give any insight if the motion handling on the 2016 P series is more in spec with how you guys tuned the 2016 D series or is it different all together? Thanks.
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post #1695 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:23 AM
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Well, certainly you can be more specific than "Scandinavia"? Perhaps your home address??
Well, I suppose I could make the sacrifice of acting as a beta tester of this product
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post #1696 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:28 AM
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Matt McRae:

Any word on if the built-in Chromecast client has real-deal official 24p and 23.976p framerate support (unlike the official Google Chromecast)?
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post #1697 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:29 AM
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Matt, not to hijack the subject here, but to utilize Dolby Vision, any idea if Vizio will be releasing a Dolby Vision enable 4K disk player and if so any time frame?
He already said no earlier today.
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post #1698 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:37 AM
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Matt McRae:

Any word on if the built-in Chromecast client has real-deal official 24p and 23.976p framerate support (unlike the official Google Chromecast)?
Will this panel even display 24fps content in its native framerate? I didn't think any 60Hz LED panels could do that.
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post #1699 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:40 AM
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Here is that up boxing video I promised...nothing elaborate just a quick video of what comes in the box and how it's packed..filmed one handed on a cell phone https://youtu.be/P_2OfQBJGeM
Hey Ikari Warrior, could I trouble you to post a little video of the new on the actual tv screen interface operated by the tablet with the tablet in the foreground and the tv in the back, including the top info box when changing input, volume control, and picture settings and aspect changes. It would be soooo appreciated, thanks.
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post #1700 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:42 AM
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Hey Ikari Warrior, could I trouble you to post a little video of the new on the actual tv screen interface operated by the tablet with the tablet in the foreground and the tv in the back, including the top info box when changing input, volume control, and picture settings and aspect changes. It would be soooo appreciated, thanks.
Agreed, and thoughts on the tv...
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post #1701 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:47 AM
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Hey Matt,

Currently, I send all my video devices (Comcast, PS3, Roku) through my AVR to my old plasma. I use the universal MX-900 remote. My HT guy said in the past the Vizio sets couldn't work with my setup. Something either about the IR codes or not being able to handle macros?

I appreciate your support here and as long as I can run the P75 under my current setup and still use the new features (tablet) another will get sold today.


Oh yeah, I went to my local BB today in West MI. Sales guy- "There's a new P series?" I spent the next 20 minutes explaining the set to him. And I'm an uber novice.

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post #1702 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:51 AM
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Hey Matt,

Currently, I send all my video devices (Comcast, PS3, Roku) through my AVR to my old plasma. I use the universal MX-900 remote. My HT guy said in the past the Vizio sets couldn't work with my setup. Something either about the IR codes or not being able to handle macros?

I appreciate your support here and as long as I can run the P75 under my current setup and still use the new features (tablet) another will get sold today.


Oh yeah, I went to my local BB today in West MI. Sales guy- "There's a new P series?" I spent the next 20 minutes explaining the set to him. And I'm an uber novice.
Harmony Hub would be my recommendation. I use the Harmony Elite remote but you may be able to just get the Hub and use the app that can be downloaded to the P series tablet remote.
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Originally Posted by wgmplaya View Post
Is best Buy the only retailer you can get these?

not a huge deal but woudl be nice to avoid the tax.
Its either best buy or vizio.com right now. I tried vizio.com because no tax and 5% off for signing up for emails but they don't take discover card and I want the 90 day price protection that discover offers. You can get a 10% coupon for bestbuy and cancel out the tax but its still slightly more without the extra 5% off coupon.
I went ahead and ordered from BB, it cost 120 more for the 75 but will get here a lot quicker.
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post #1704 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 11:57 AM
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Matt, not to hijack the subject here, but to utilize Dolby Vision, any idea if Vizio will be releasing a Dolby Vision enable 4K disk player and if so any time frame?
Already answered in post #1694

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post #1705 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
Will we have full 11 point greyscale and CMS control for each input? Or only be able to tweak brightness/contrast, etc.

Being able to do complete full different calibrations for different inputs would be awesome! This was a limitation on the 2014 P, only one full calibration per color setting. So if you wanted a different calibration, you had to start with say "computer" and really jack the settings around to get the color correct.

It would be really nice if we could save different gamma curves, for example a BT1886 calibration, a power calibration, a calibration with FALD on and one with it off. We have had a lot of debates on calibration the P series. Being able to directly compare these curves would be really nice.

Lastly, as an aside, do you have any experience/recommendations on calibrating the gamma curve: FALD on or FALD off?

Similar architecture... the thought process is that you use CMS to dial in the panel to the target color temp etc. This is something you would not want changing input to input as you are dialing in your specific panel. Then all other picture controls will give you further control from that calibrated base line are input specific.

The color temps are:
Normal: D65
Computer: 9300K
Cool: S curve

FALD on/off for calibration. We factory calibrate to Gamma 2.2 with FALD off. Turning it on can have a small effect but not much (Gamma will stay between 2.2-2.3). If you then went into Gamma settings and changed from the preset 2.2 to 2.4 you would get something extremely close to BT1886. Then adjustments in the 11 point for 40 IRE and below can refine it further.
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post #1706 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Similar architecture... the thought process is that you use CMS to dial in the panel to the target color temp etc. This is something you would not want changing input to input as you are dialing in your specific panel. Then all other picture controls will give you further control from that calibrated base line are input specific.

The color temps are:
Normal: D65
Computer: 9300K
Cool: S curve

FALD on/off for calibration. We factory calibrate to Gamma 2.2 with FALD off. Turning it on can have a small effect but not much (Gamma will stay between 2.2-2.3). If you then went into Gamma settings and changed from the preset 2.2 to 2.4 you would get something extremely close to BT1886. Then adjustments in the 11 point for 40 IRE and below can refine it further.
I'll copy this to the top post in the other thread. Outstanding info!

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post #1707 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 12:12 PM
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So any feedback on up conversion of normal cable feed (1080/720)? It's what I watch 90% of the time.
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post #1708 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
Matt McRae:

Any word on if the built-in Chromecast client has real-deal official 24p and 23.976p framerate support (unlike the official Google Chromecast)?
That's a great question. If the TV streams from casted sources at native framerate, that's another huge feature and feather in the cap of this set.
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post #1709 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Will this panel even display 24fps content in its native framerate? I didn't think any 60Hz LED panels could do that.


Only the 50in is 60hz.
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post #1710 of 3197 Old 03-25-2016, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Harmony Hub would be my recommendation. I use the Harmony Elite remote but you may be able to just get the Hub and use the app that can be downloaded to the P series tablet remote.
Just did some quick research, thanks for the suggestion.

Hopefully, it's not too difficult to setup, I can get impatient lol.

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