2016 Vizio M-Series Anticipation Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 10:10 AM
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It's done by what's called temporal dithering (8bit+FRC) which cycles between different color shades with each new frame to simulate an intermediate shade, so it gives you 1.07b apparent colors but it does not increase the color gamut, hence why it's not WCG.
This mind-trickery has made it so some people can't tell the difference between a "true" 10 bit panel and a 10 bit panel with only 8 bit processing, correct? This might be "good enough" for some folks (and possibly me). I'm still waiting for the reviews to come in.

As a side note, has anyone considered that it's possible that Vizio wants there to be a "perceived" difference between the M series and the P series that isn't as pronounced as the reality? (Hence, unique trademarked terminology like "Ultra Color Spectrum," instead of wide color gamut...) If I were Vizio, I would be tight-lipped about HDR10 capability if it meant moving more P series TVs and more $$$ in my pocket.
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post #182 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Adventourist View Post
This mind-trickery has made it so some people can't tell the difference between a "true" 10 bit panel and a 10 bit panel with only 8 bit processing, correct? This might be "good enough" for some folks (and possibly me). I'm still waiting for the reviews to come in.

As a side note, has anyone considered that it's possible that Vizio wants there to be a "perceived" difference between the M series and the P series that isn't as pronounced as the reality? (Hence, unique trademarked terminology like "Ultra Color Spectrum," instead of wide color gamut...) If I were Vizio, I would be tight-lipped about HDR10 capability if it meant moving more P series TVs and more $$$ in my pocket.
We are real enthusiasts here, and these abbreviations mean something to us, but to JoeSixPack, and JaneWineBox not so much, it generally come down to price for them, so I would bet Visio will sell much more M's over P's.

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post #183 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 11:18 AM
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This mind-trickery has made it so some people can't tell the difference between a "true" 10 bit panel and a 10 bit panel with only 8 bit processing, correct? This might be "good enough" for some folks (and possibly me). I'm still waiting for the reviews to come in.

As a side note, has anyone considered that it's possible that Vizio wants there to be a "perceived" difference between the M series and the P series that isn't as pronounced as the reality? (Hence, unique trademarked terminology like "Ultra Color Spectrum," instead of wide color gamut...) If I were Vizio, I would be tight-lipped about HDR10 capability if it meant moving more P series TVs and more $$$ in my pocket.
i think that's why they delayed the m series so long...to sell as many p's to the early adopters as possible. they after 6 months throw the M 's in costco and sams club.
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post #184 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 11:20 AM
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We are real enthusiasts here, and these abbreviations mean something to us, but to JoeSixPack, and JaneWineBox not so much, it generally come down to price for them, so I would bet Visio will sell much more M's over P's.
Mid range outsells high end on everything from cars to microwaves. TV's are no different.
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post #185 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mwaarna View Post

Also my receiver does not support 4k HDMI.
So I would pipe all the new HDMI directly into the TV and them output the Audio into my Pre-Amp.
Do these Vizio models have audio output for all inputs?

Thanks for any input in Advance.
just bought a 2015 M 50" and i have the same concern. ran hdmi for xfinity box, blue ray, player and amazon fire individually to tv, then optical from tv to receiver (the tv only has one audio out...automatically switches based on video source). old receiver does not support dolby digital plus, only dolby digital. all 3 sources transfer dolby digital 5.1 seamlessly to my receiver. i think some tvs have issues not decoding dd+ down to dd, just send it to stereo instead (roku does this), but hte 2015 M did, assume the 2016 would as well.

this has actually had a huge benefit. i dont have to switch inputs on the receiver, just the tv. the old logitech was buggy and if anyone else switched between one of the sources i'd have to go in there and adjust the receiver for them. no more - now the tv is the automatic audio source switcher...not me!
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post #186 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 11:38 AM
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just bought a 2015 M 50" and i have the same concern. ran hdmi for xfinity box, blue ray, player and amazon fire individually to tv, then optical from tv to receiver (the tv only has one audio out...automatically switches based on video source). old receiver does not support dolby digital plus, only dolby digital. all 3 sources transfer dolby digital 5.1 seamlessly to my receiver. i think some tvs have issues not decoding dd+ down to dd, just send it to stereo instead (roku does this), but hte 2015 M did, assume the 2016 would as well.

this has actually had a huge benefit. i dont have to switch inputs on the receiver, just the tv. the old logitech was buggy and if anyone else switched between one of the sources i'd have to go in there and adjust the receiver for them. no more - now the tv is the automatic audio source switcher...not me!
You do realize that you will never get the lossless audio codecs from blu ray (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD) using this method, right?
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post #187 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 12:39 PM
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You do realize that you will never get the lossless audio codecs from blu ray (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD) using this method, right?
Thank you, Alan for the confirmation of my connection scheme.

Does this also mean that any receiver that can handle 4K video should NOT process the signals; but, be used in pass thru mode, so the Vizio does all the processing?

Can't find a thread that talks about this connectivity choices?

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post #188 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 12:55 PM
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i think that's why they delayed the m series so long...to sell as many p's to the early adopters as possible. they after 6 months throw the M 's in costco and sams club.

I'm not sure why you think that...M series was released ~June of last year. Vizio has changed things however, so that the time between announce and ship are much closer. I do t think there was a delay in the M series at all. If anything the P series was delayed a year

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Thank you, Alan for the confirmation of my connection scheme.



Does this also mean that any receiver that can handle 4K video should NOT process the signals; but, be used in pass thru mode, so the Vizio does all the processing?



Can't find a thread that talks about this connectivity choices?

Most receivers have a "pass thru" mode these days. Which just passes the signal that it gets on to the TV. You would need to select that on the particular receiver in order for it to happen. Each manufacturer has a different name and option so it won't be "general one size fits all"
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post #189 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 01:07 PM
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We are real enthusiasts here, and these abbreviations mean something to us, but to JoeSixPack, and JaneWineBox not so much, it generally come down to price for them, so I would bet Visio will sell much more M's over P's.
You might be right. But then again, I'm not really talking about volume, I'm talking about $$$ - selling more P TVs than they would if they were to tell people the M-Series is HDR10-capable. I realize more M-Series TVs will be sold than P-Series TVs, but what if you could sway SOME of those who would buy M-Series TVs to buy P-Series by withholding some information about the M-Series and make the disparity between the two seem larger than it really is? (Again, this is a hypothetical world I'm talking about...) I'm just saying, if I could think of it, so could they, and I wouldn't put it past a business to use every advantage to make some extra bucks.

Time to take off my tin foil hat now... Conspiracy theories are usually not my thing.
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post #190 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 01:14 PM
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Thank you, Alan for the confirmation of my connection scheme.

Does this also mean that any receiver that can handle 4K video should NOT process the signals; but, be used in pass thru mode, so the Vizio does all the processing?

Can't find a thread that talks about this connectivity choices?
yes, but its nice to be able to upgrade one piece of the ht system without having to do it all. can upgrade the 10 year old tv and keep the old dd receiver.
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post #191 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 01:21 PM
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I don't really care what sells more, if pricing has been announced on the M Series and I can "supposedly" buy it today...where is it?

I got till June 7th to take back my M65 (2015) to Costco via 90 day return policy and I already see the E series on Costco's website.

So who has the M? I already got the divorce papers printed out for taking the old one back and getting the same size TV for "HDR" which my wife doesn't care about.

200ish more for the new "M" vs the old is a hell of a deal.
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post #192 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 02:20 PM
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yes, but its nice to be able to upgrade one piece of the ht system without having to do it all. can upgrade the 10 year old tv and keep the old dd receiver.
But, that old dd receiver would have to have HDMI 2.0, wouldn't it??

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post #193 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 03:18 PM
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You might be right. But then again, I'm not really talking about volume, I'm talking about $$$ - selling more P TVs than they would if they were to tell people the M-Series is HDR10-capable. I realize more M-Series TVs will be sold than P-Series TVs, but what if you could sway SOME of those who would buy M-Series TVs to buy P-Series by withholding some information about the M-Series and make the disparity between the two seem larger than it really is? (Again, this is a hypothetical world I'm talking about...) I'm just saying, if I could think of it, so could they, and I wouldn't put it past a business to use every advantage to make some extra bucks.

Time to take off my tin foil hat now... Conspiracy theories are usually not my thing.
Sounds more like wishful thinking than conspiracy theory. Makes more sense that they make money off the high end P series by margins and the mid range M by volume. That's how most businesses like this work. Simple fact is the M is a great buy at these prices but let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's "as good" as the P series once you unlock the secret hardware that Vizio is holding back on.

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post #194 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 05:07 PM
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But, that old dd receiver would have to have HDMI 2.0, wouldn't it??
not sure but i dont think so, each video source hdmi directly to tv, digital audio from tv to receiver. eventually i can upgrade the receiver and do it the "right way", but the new vizio tvs give us people with 10+ year old systems to upgrade the tv first, then do the audio. i think that's the boat the guy was in - trying to save him all trouble i went through...had looked at anything seriously since i bought my last system until i bought fire tv 2 months ago and was out of hdmi inputs!

unless the new vizio's do dolby atmos pass through??? but thats a battle for another day - gotta get a p55 or m60 next time i drive down to the tax free state.
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post #195 of 880 Old 04-21-2016, 06:39 PM
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not sure but i dont think so, each video source hdmi directly to tv, digital audio from tv to receiver. eventually i can upgrade the receiver and do it the "right way", but the new vizio tvs give us people with 10+ year old systems to upgrade the tv first, then do the audio. i think that's the boat the guy was in - trying to save him all trouble i went through...had looked at anything seriously since i bought my last system until i bought fire tv 2 months ago and was out of hdmi inputs!

unless the new vizio's do dolby atmos pass through??? but thats a battle for another day - gotta get a p55 or m60 next time i drive down to the tax free state.
Hdmi 1.4 doesn't pass thru HDR higher than 30 fps, I believe. That is an issue for some services?

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post #196 of 880 Old 04-22-2016, 05:06 AM
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Makes you wonder how much of this is just marketing. It is marketing's job to create this perceived difference even when there might not be (a significant) one.
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post #197 of 880 Old 04-22-2016, 05:15 AM
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Makes you wonder how much of this is just marketing. It is marketing's job to create this perceived difference even when there might not be (a significant) one.
I don't think they (vizio) are claiming there's a big difference at all. Pretty simple, half the zones and no wide color gamut. Not sure why they would just slap different legs on a P and charge $500 less. The specs that have been shown are right there in black & white and people are reading between the lines and there's nothing to see.

In other words, there's a lot of wishful thinking going on.
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post #198 of 880 Old 04-22-2016, 06:18 AM
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I will say this though. I MUCH prefer the look of the new M over the P. That black bezel and those steel minimalist legs are so nice looking. Really wish the designs were reversed, coming from someone with a P on the way lol.
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post #199 of 880 Old 04-22-2016, 06:21 AM
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This mind-trickery has made it so some people can't tell the difference between a "true" 10 bit panel and a 10 bit panel with only 8 bit processing, correct? This might be "good enough" for some folks (and possibly me). I'm still waiting for the reviews to come in.

As a side note, has anyone considered that it's possible that Vizio wants there to be a "perceived" difference between the M series and the P series that isn't as pronounced as the reality? (Hence, unique trademarked terminology like "Ultra Color Spectrum," instead of wide color gamut...) If I were Vizio, I would be tight-lipped about HDR10 capability if it meant moving more P series TVs and more $$$ in my pocket.
If I had to guess, the trickery will be much less apparant over pixelated crap like 1080p broadcasts/online stuff like netflix and probably 4k broadcasts/4k netflix/etc, but will be apparant when played on 4k bluray
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post #200 of 880 Old 04-22-2016, 07:12 AM
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I will say this though. I MUCH prefer the look of the new M over the P. That black bezel and those steel minimalist legs are so nice looking. Really wish the designs were reversed, coming from someone with a P on the way lol.
EXACTLY! Man, if that bezel was black or grey, I would've pulled the trigger long time ago on the 75". I literally went back to bestbuy 3x to look at the P series in person and convince myself that the bezel color is fine, but I just can't help but get distracted by it. And it doesn't help that it's next to other 4ks that has black bezels so when they're showing dark scenes, the bezel just disappears on those. I know some love the silver, but I just can't get over it. I really hope M series goes back in stock soon.
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post #201 of 880 Old 04-22-2016, 09:17 AM
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Sounds more like wishful thinking than conspiracy theory. Makes more sense that they make money off the high end P series by margins and the mid range M by volume. That's how most businesses like this work. Simple fact is the M is a great buy at these prices but let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's "as good" as the P series once you unlock the secret hardware that Vizio is holding back on.
Who wouldn't wish for better value with their TV purchase? And nobody said it would be "as good" as the P-series. I said the difference may not be as great as some think. (But if you do have a P-series on the way, I'd believe you'd find more comfort in the gap being great, no?) I'm not convinced the M-series can't get an upgrade down the line to become HDR10-capable just yet... Again, I'm NOT saying if that happened the picture would look "as good." I don't deny any wishful thinking, nor do I think it's foolish to think it's possible at this point, but that may change as more info becomes available.
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post #202 of 880 Old 04-25-2016, 06:17 PM
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Nothing but crickets here I see. So much for Vizio's new approach where they wait to announce specifics and pricing until they can ship.
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post #203 of 880 Old 04-26-2016, 06:28 AM
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Nothing but crickets here I see. So much for Vizio's new approach where they wait to announce specifics and pricing until they can ship.
The E-series is out and in stores so they must be doing the same thing they did between P and E series: giving it a few weeks for folks to jump on the lineup before releasing more options.

It's very frustrating, though, because their site makes it seem like it's out and available. I'm not going to purchase until I can see one physically in a B&M store, though. I'm curious if they'll have the 2015 and 2016 nearby to see if the HDR is worth ponying up for, or if I can get a 70" 2015 model for the price of the new 2016 65"
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post #204 of 880 Old 04-26-2016, 06:36 AM
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The Vizio USA website actually still says "Coming Soon" for the M-Series.

The pricing on the 2015 M models out there doesn't seem all that great, which isn't surprising given that the pricing on the 2015 M models at Vizio isn't all that great either.

Thus, unless you can find a super clearance M somewhere, you're probably better off getting the 2016 M. For me, I am at this point completely uninterested in any of the 2015 models, unless I can find it for half price or something. Otherwise it's going to be M with Dolby Vision, or perhaps P with both HDR10 and Dolby Vision, or perhaps a non-Vizio TV with HDR support of some sort.
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post #205 of 880 Old 04-26-2016, 10:23 AM
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The Vizio USA website actually still says "Coming Soon" for the M-Series.

The pricing on the 2015 M models out there doesn't seem all that great, which isn't surprising given that the pricing on the 2015 M models at Vizio isn't all that great either.

Thus, unless you can find a super clearance M somewhere, you're probably better off getting the 2016 M. For me, I am at this point completely uninterested in any of the 2015 models, unless I can find it for half price or something. Otherwise it's going to be M with Dolby Vision, or perhaps P with both HDR10 and Dolby Vision, or perhaps a non-Vizio TV with HDR support of some sort.
Everyone,

The Vizio outlet store has some screaming deals on 2015 models. 60" E, $600, 40"Razor, $300, 60" M, $630 and 60" P, $1000; all free shipping......

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post #206 of 880 Old 04-26-2016, 11:09 AM
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Does anyone know if you can plug headphones into the tablet remote and listen to the audio from a cable box? If you can, this might seal the deal with me on a new M series. Thanks!
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post #207 of 880 Old 04-26-2016, 11:39 AM
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Everyone,

The Vizio outlet store has some screaming deals on 2015 models. 60" E, $600, 40"Razor, $300, 60" M, $630 and 60" P, $1000; all free shipping......
These are 2014 models by the way.
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post #208 of 880 Old 04-26-2016, 12:03 PM
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These are 2014 models by the way.
Oops.................

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post #209 of 880 Old 04-27-2016, 07:36 AM
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yes, but its nice to be able to upgrade one piece of the ht system without having to do it all. can upgrade the 10 year old tv and keep the old dd receiver.
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Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
But, that old dd receiver would have to have HDMI 2.0, wouldn't it??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Randall View Post
not sure but i dont think so, each video source hdmi directly to tv, digital audio from tv to receiver. eventually i can upgrade the receiver and do it the "right way", but the new vizio tvs give us people with 10+ year old systems to upgrade the tv first, then do the audio. i think that's the boat the guy was in - trying to save him all trouble i went through...had looked at anything seriously since i bought my last system until i bought fire tv 2 months ago and was out of hdmi inputs!

unless the new vizio's do dolby atmos pass through??? but thats a battle for another day - gotta get a p55 or m60 next time i drive down to the tax free state.
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Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Hdmi 1.4 doesn't pass thru HDR higher than 30 fps, I believe. That is an issue for some services?
But that shouldn't matter if he is just using the HDMI ARC (Audio Return Channel) from the TV to the receiver to pass the audio to the receiver and not the video. So as he switches the video on his new TV the TV sends the audio only to the receiver. HDR would be decoded by the TV in this case.
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post #210 of 880 Old 04-27-2016, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen5242 View Post
But that shouldn't matter if he is just using the HDMI ARC (Audio Return Channel) from the TV to the receiver to pass the audio to the receiver and not the video. So as he switches the video on his new TV the TV sends the audio only to the receiver. HDR would be decoded by the TV in this case.
OK, I understand........But the source HDMI cables needs to be 2.0 compliant to send HDR?

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