Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 1137 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #34081 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Thank you for this, but find it contradicting. First, they are trying to pull down the HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but then states that would mean - HDMI 1-4 in HDR10 = 45ms. So which one is it? Can someone help me understand this? Does it mean the lowest possibly is 45ms for 4k HDR? Or that they are working to bring HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but for now, we'll get 45ms. Can someone please clarify. Thanks so much in advance.
HDMI 1-4 had an input lag of around 45ms for all content. When HDR is enable it added 15ms on top of that. Vizio is removing the 15ms that was added in HDR processing to get it back to the 45ms area.

Also you say you paid 2k for the tv and expect it to be top of the line... 2k is no where near the price of a "top of the line" tv.
But while your tv does have higher input lag than the KS8000, the vizio has FALD and can do both Dolby vision and HDR-10 which the samsung can not.
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post #34082 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 09:32 AM
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Maybe you misunderstood "additional lag added by HDR10 processing" as "total lag for HDR10"

The chip in the display takes a certain amount of time to process a frame. When that frame is HDR10, it currently takes a bit more time that SDR. What Matt said (I think) is that Vizio is trying to reduce this additional time for HDR10 to as close to zero as possible. The result being the same lag for HDR10 and SDR on HDMI 1-4 which is 45ms.

Not sure if that made things any clearer.


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Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Thank you for this, but find it contradicting. First, they are trying to pull down the HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but then states that would mean - HDMI 1-4 in HDR10 = 45ms. So which one is it? Can someone help me understand this? Does it mean the lowest possibly is 45ms for 4k HDR? Or that they are working to bring HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but for now, we'll get 45ms. Can someone please clarify. Thanks so much in advance.
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post #34083 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pwishart View Post
Yes it would be covered by warranty, since a whole row went out at once it is most likely a failure in the driver board, they should just have to swap the board instead of having to go through the trouble of changing the display.
Called Vizio support today. A technician is going to come to attempt to repair it.
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post #34084 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 09:55 AM
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Couple more updates:

1. PS4 Pro is working great. I tried Rachet and Clank and HDR is working fine. I have a Blue Jeans cable going from PS4 Pro to HDMI 3 on P65 and then another Blue Jeans cable on HDMI 1 taking audio back to Denon x7200WA via ARC. With it now working I decided to re-ordered an Xbox One S through one of the early Black Friday sales. Gears of War 2 TB edition should come Tuesday or Wednesday - just in time for some HDR Forza Horizon 3 over Turkey weekend.

2. Grand Tour via Amazon app on Samsung UHD player looked great. I have the Samsung UHD connected directly to HDMI 2 on P65 and then run a second audio cable directly to my Denon. I have not been able to get the Denon to pass through the 4k HDR signal. I did have some lip sync issues with Grand Tour with this set up but setting audio delay on Denon to 200ms fixed it.

3. I had a weird bug show up this morning. I turned the P65 on and it came on to the cast input and showed the typical Google screen I selected Youtube from the tablet and connected to the P65. I then went to play a video and the screen just went black. I was hear the audio though ARC'd back to the Denon. On the tablet I then selected another video and then the P65 display showed it. Weird... I powered down and repeated everything. Same thing - first video played to a black screen. Switched to another video and it was fine.

4. As noted before, ARC audio random dropouts/disconnect fixed for me. I did have one random episode when playing Grand Tour where my Denon changed from the Samsung UHD HDMI input (audio only) I had been using to the "TV Audio/ARC" HDMI input. Not sure why it changed, but I switched it back and it didn't happen again. I have CEC set to audio only right now.


I think we are really close to having things near perfect on this set. While the beta has some expected bugs, it shows HDR gaming is a reality on this set. One the final release version of this firmware is ready, it is going to be really great. One cool option that perhaps could be considered to be added in the future, especially for those wanting to trial beta firmware, would be a built in option to roll back the firmware to the prior release. This would allow those to test the beta version and provide feedback, but also allow those to roll back who have some really bad bugs.
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post #34085 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premierplayer View Post
What is acceptable input lag and how can we gauge it.
Mainly by playing.

If a game feels "sluggish" with the Game Low Latency feature on, like the action on-screen is falling behind button presses and you can't perform in-game as you feel you should, then this is unacceptable. If the game seems to be responding like it should when you are pressing buttons, that is acceptable.

The easiest way I test lag in action is to play a pinball game like Pinball FX2 (Xbox One), Zen Pinball 2 (PS4), or Pinball Arcade (both systems) - the flippers should trigger at the precise moment of pushing the button. Lining up shots should be precise. If the flippers are late and shots are missed, then the lag is an issue.

Everyone has their own sensitivity to input lag, and what it noticeable to one person might be perfectly fine for another.

For single-player games, my rule of thumb:
  • ~20ms is pretty much perfect -- super sharp, precise, and undetectable lag to all but the most frame-sensitive player.
  • ~45ms is solid, most people should have no issues playing single-player games.
  • ~60ms starts to feel a touch laggy, but many people can compensate and still have no problems adjusting gameplay.
  • ~ 90ms and beyond can be felt, and many gamers won't want to play with this much lag.
A huge YMMV to the above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Thank you for this, but find it contradicting. First, they are trying to pull down the HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but then states that would mean - HDMI 1-4 in HDR10 = 45ms. So which one is it? Can someone help me understand this? Does it mean the lowest possibly is 45ms for 4k HDR? Or that they are working to bring HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but for now, we'll get 45ms. Can someone please clarify. Thanks so much in advance.
As mentioned before, HDR10 on Vizio P-series now adds zero extra lag with the new beta firmware and beyond, so it's the same lag as SDR, which on HDMI 1 through 4 is solid ~45ms input lag. Before the recent beta firmware update, HDR added an extra ~15ms because it was going through the Dolby Vision chip, but this is no longer an issue anymore.
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post #34086 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Vudu is having an issue. It's happening to me as well but also @thomasfxlt who is still on fw-2.2.7.4.
I was so iterated last night when I had to watch suicide squad in HDX.

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Tried again last nite.... terrible. I was unable to stream SS in UHD for only a few minutes at a time. Even in HDX it would self-pause. My download speeds exceed 175mbps. It's quite critical that Vizio elevate this issue w Vudu if it's to be the sole DV option.

SONY Z9F LCD Master Series Owners Thread
Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
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post #34087 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
I am semi-afraid to post this until I do more testing, but I would like to give an update on my ARC situation.
I have had the tv since the original Firmware came out and have had ARC drop outs since day 1. I knew ARC was crazy so no big deal.
I tried multiple High Speed Cables (Amazon, Monoprice, Monster, Included Vizio Cable) And drop out were about the same no matter what, and no cable had trouble with 4k hdr video.
I upgraded my receiver from a Marantz SR5008 to a Yamaha RX-A3050 but the same drop outs kept occuring.
Just for the fun of it I decided to order a Blue Jeans Series FE cable.
First I want to note that after installing the cable I had several video drop outs from my cable box that day. It actually could have been a loose connection somewhere else but they haven't happened again. Also I want to not the only Blue Jeans HDMI is the one between my tv and receiver. Every other device is currently a different high speed HDMI.

To my surprise I have not had an ARC drop out in the last 3 days. Even after getting the current Beta firmware I was still having drop outs. It wasn't until I installed this cable that the Arc drop outs appeared to have stopped. I am not completely convinced yet and I will test more this week. But I am confused on how or why it has even seemed to fix the issue. It should not in any way be a bandwidth issue since ARC is using SPDIF, and the drop outs did not matter what content I was watching. Could be 4k DD+ or 1080p in stereo.
I will keep you guys posted if the drop outs start happening again. And once again even though it is happening in front of me it is still hard to believe the cable could have fixed this.
The BJC cables solved many of my issues. Glad they helped you as well.
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post #34088 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Tried again last nite.... terrible. I was unable to stream SS in UHD for only a few minutes at a time. Even in HDX it would self-pause. My download speeds exceed 175mbps. It's quite critical that Vizio elevate this issue w Vudu if it's to be the sole DV option.
I really don't know what vizio could say to VUDU. It has nothing to do with Vizio. Vudu works on other devices just as bad as it does on this tv currently.
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post #34089 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Really like my 2016 Vizio P Series (65inch), but would like to see 4K HDR input lag somewhere in the 20ms-30ms. Would this be possible? Realistic in a future patch? Thanks
That would be awesome, but doubtful it's possible.*

You have a TV with great FALD that was released before HDR gaming was a reality. The display can do amazing sub-20ms input lag on input 5 at 1080p SDR with local dimming, which looks and plays amazing. If input lag is crucial to you, this is the option you should use.

If the lowest possible input lag for the handful of HDR games available is more important than other things like Dolby Vision or FALD, then another TV might be better suited for you.

*that said, if the Vizio techs can pull off 20ms 4K HDR lag, they will make a lot of gamers very happy.
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post #34090 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
I really don't know what vizio could say to VUDU. It has nothing to do with Vizio. Vudu works on other devices just as bad as it does on this tv currently.
VUDU's a strategic partner. There is clearly some exclusivity and underlying that are likely some performance metrics. If not.... it's a lousy deal for Vizio..... and worse for those of us investing in UHD DV titles w them.
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post #34091 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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If users would like to PM me comments to update page 1 I'll be tending to that in a day or 2.
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post #34092 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
VUDU's a strategic partner. There is clearly some exclusivity and underlying that are likely some performance metrics. If not.... it's a lousy deal for Vizio..... and worse for those of us investing in UHD DV titles w them.
I thought they were more a strategic partner for chorme/google cast. But I guess with it built into the tv it relies on them to say something as well.
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post #34093 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 11:08 AM
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Getting screen tearing like crazy with current firmware. Did not have much screen tearing before. This is mainly occurring while watching cable tv (cox communications) football and basketball. When the tv shows a closeup shot that is fast panning, the tearing/splitting occurs.

Model: P75
Firmware: 3.0.6.4
Settings:
GLL: On
Reduce Block Noise: High
Film Mode: Off

Any help/recommendations to help solve would be great appreciated.
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post #34094 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 11:41 AM
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Anyone here have experience with a Vizio technician coming out to you for a repair? How did it go?
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post #34095 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Quik Sand View Post
Getting screen tearing like crazy with current firmware. Did not have much screen tearing before. This is mainly occurring while watching cable tv (cox communications) football and basketball. When the tv shows a closeup shot that is fast panning, the tearing/splitting occurs.

Model: P75
Firmware: 3.0.6.4
Settings:
GLL: On
Reduce Block Noise: High
Film Mode: Off

Any help/recommendations to help solve would be great appreciated.
I haven't seen this so far. Post a video if you can.

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Anyone here have experience with a Vizio technician coming out to you for a repair? How did it go?
I have twice. It went fine.I helped a lot...lol.

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post #34096 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Thank you for this, but find it contradicting. First, they are trying to pull down the HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but then states that would mean - HDMI 1-4 in HDR10 = 45ms. So which one is it? Can someone help me understand this? Does it mean the lowest possibly is 45ms for 4k HDR? Or that they are working to bring HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but for now, we'll get 45ms. Can someone please clarify. Thanks so much in advance.
Processing the HDR component of a video stream incurs a performance hit when compared to a standard signal (SDR). He's saying they hope to eliminate the performance hit.

So the formula is:
Basic Image Processing + HDR10 Processing = Total Time

Currently for HDMI 1-4 its:
45ms + 15ms = 60 ms

They are working to get it to be:
45ms + 0ms = 45ms
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post #34097 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Samsung KS8000 improved from 100ms to 22ms in game mode 4K HDR. Why can't Vizio. Paid 2K for this TV and expect it to be top of the line.


Perhaps that's the problem...$2k \= "Top of the line." This is very good display, but it is still a performance/$ play.


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post #34098 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
Tried again last nite.... terrible. I was unable to stream SS in UHD for only a few minutes at a time. Even in HDX it would self-pause. My download speeds exceed 175mbps. It's quite critical that Vizio elevate this issue w Vudu if it's to be the sole DV option.


I have zero issue with streaming UHD from VUDU. Reaching here, but have you tried reinstalling the app on the tablet? Any chance that it is a wifi vs Ethernet issue?


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post #34099 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fernando Caprio View Post
Did anyone here ever try to compare p75 with x940d? I understand 940d lacks DV, only HDR 10. Both seem to have good local dimming. Wondering however on the input lag for HDMI ports for gaming on ps4 pro with HDR/4k... Hard to find in such detail for sony...
It should be the same as the 930 on rtings. 940 doesn't have the best input lag.
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post #34100 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mcholthaus View Post
I have zero issue with streaming UHD from VUDU. Reaching here, but have you tried reinstalling the app on the tablet? Any chance that it is a wifi vs Ethernet issue?


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Try Suicide Squad.....

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post #34101 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optum88 View Post
Thank you for this, but find it contradicting. First, they are trying to pull down the HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but then states that would mean - HDMI 1-4 in HDR10 = 45ms. So which one is it? Can someone help me understand this? Does it mean the lowest possibly is 45ms for 4k HDR? Or that they are working to bring HDR10 input lag to near 0ms, but for now, we'll get 45ms. Can someone please clarify. Thanks so much in advance.
What I remember is, 45ms for HDR10, and can go lower with backlight brightness increases. Although this would affect motion blur.
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post #34102 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 01:46 PM
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I haven't seen this so far. Post a video if you can.
Happens towards the end of this replay of a touchdown run.

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post #34103 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 02:37 PM
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Is it HDR on both PS4 and XBox?

It has HDR on both platforms
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Can I be added to the beta please... Serial 05ltm7tmas50081 Thank you
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post #34105 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Quik Sand View Post
Happens towards the end of this replay of a touchdown run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lEWsH3PDvo
Are you talking about those white bars verticle on the screen? That isn't screen tearing. It looks like it is actually in the feed. But I have not seen it on my P75.
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post #34106 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
Are you talking about those white bars verticle on the screen? That isn't screen tearing. It looks like it is actually in the feed. But I have not seen it on my P75.
If you look right above the runners head when he gets close to the endzone, you can see a line that forms what looks like a split. It is easily seen in person. When I pause it, i can see the "split" go through the runners helmet.
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post #34107 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik Sand View Post
If you look right above the runners head when he gets close to the endzone, you can see a line that forms what looks like a split. It is easily seen in person. When I pause it, i can see the "split" go through the runners helmet.
I don't see it either..... I'll look again on my laptop...

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post #34108 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 05:30 PM
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Hi @mattmc Rae ,

Please add my P75-C1 serial number to the list for early access to new firmware if the offer is still open:

LTMATKBS3050018
If you want @Matt McRae to be notified about your post then you have to use his actual AVS user name.
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My Components:
Denon X3400H, OPPO UDP-203 & BDP-93, Xfinity XG1-P, Vizio PQ, Roku 3 & Ultra 2018
Calibration Resources:
Customer's Reports -- Professional Calibrations
Calibrator's locations and tour areas.
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post #34109 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atbroome View Post
As one of the apparent "whiners", I say lets try to take a calm look at this from multiple perspectives

Some of us actually have jobs and other more important things going on in life and actually go...gasp...a few days or even weeks without checking this thread. I personally stopped my daily checks once the discussions moved to being almost entirely gaming related. Which is absolutely fine since it represents use cases of the owners of the P-series, but since I was generally happy with my display after the last production release my participation went down.

I didn't "beg" for anything. Many months ago when the production firmware that supported HDR10 was released, I took Matt up on his offer to get it early. I had no complaints when Matt gave early access to the next production release to the same list since it was stable and seemed to only make things better.

Now, Matt went ahead and offered beta firmware to this group, which I think was an amazing gesture that I 100% want Vizio to keep doing for those who want it. I still can't believe the support and interaction Vizio is offering to its owners. I have never regretted my purchase of my P compared to the Sony 930D I had originally ordered.

That said, I think that if Matt is able to, separate lists for "early production" and "beta" would be great. If that is too much overhead, I'm happy to be taken off the single list so others can continue to get betas as Vizo works on HDR gaming support.
Anyone who got the Beta release firmware and is unhappy with it can manually load the current full release firmware and ask Matt via PM to take their serial number off of the "impatient owner's list."

Enjoy.

My Components:
Denon X3400H, OPPO UDP-203 & BDP-93, Xfinity XG1-P, Vizio PQ, Roku 3 & Ultra 2018
Calibration Resources:
Customer's Reports -- Professional Calibrations
Calibrator's locations and tour areas.
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post #34110 of 64030 Old 11-20-2016, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Anyone who got the Beta release firmware and is unhappy with it can manually load the current full release firmware and ask Matt via PM to take their serial number off of the "impatient owner's list."



Enjoy.


You can go back?
How?

LG OLED65B6P. Klipsch: RF82, RC62, RS52, RB61, RP-140SA. SVS PB-U13. Denon 6300H. Oppo 103D. Oppo UPD 203.
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2016/2017 vizio p-series - nice pic(k)! / netflix , best value , D7000 , dolby vision , latest firmware - 6.0.18.1 - previous 5.0.16.1 , Vizio , Vudu

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