Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 1490 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #44671 of 63948 Old 04-25-2017, 11:04 PM
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Hi @Matt McRae ,

I'm a current P55 owner and I was just wondering if I could pick your brain a little about HDMI 2.1, specifically the proposed eARC feature. Is that something that could be added via firmware to the P-Series or does it require new hardware? It would be nice to be able to plug my devices directly to the TV and also keep the lossless audio. Thanks a bunch for your presence here in the forum!
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post #44672 of 63948 Old 04-25-2017, 11:05 PM
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Glad to see the TV series is getting a more TV bound apps UI. I love the tablet and the casting abilities of the TV, but my wife absolutely loathes it and wishes it had a more smart TV like approach so she was ecstatic to hear this news.
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post #44673 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
:-)

Too funny... can't scare me away that easily. The only thing that keeps me from the forum is my schedule. Things will get crazy again in a couple of days so I am trying to post as much as possible until then.

Love the passion on all sides whether or not you agree with everything posted.
Wow. Now that's how it is done.

Thank you for doing this. Seriously.

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post #44674 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 01:57 AM
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"Color Volume" article: Revised and Expanded!

Hey guys,

For those of you who liked my "Color Volume" article, I wanted to let you know that I have made further revisions and additions to it this week.

I added a lot of extra material to most of the sections - including additional info and lots more images and illustrations. I also added 2 brand new sections to it and made a few changes and improvements to some of the previous material.

I also took this opportunity to correct a few small mistakes that were bothering me and do a bit of reformatting. (Hey, I happen to be a perfectionist, with perhaps a little bit of OCD thrown-in for good measure. In fact, you will notice that a lot of my posts on the Forum often have a "Last edited by" footnote at the bottom of them - many of those "edits" are often only to correct a small spelling mistake or something stupid like that. )

Additionally, I decided to take the advice of my friend @mrtickleuk and change the print size of my "Notes" (except for the very first one), which were too small and hard for some to read (they looked fine in the browser I was using, but viewing them in a different browser I noticed they were indeed quite small). I instead used a different "Font" to make them stand out.

I am planning to start working on "Part 2" of my article hopefully this coming weekend (which will be the 2nd Post of my Color Volume Thread that I currently have marked as "Reserved!"). I plan to have it finished sometime next week if all goes well.

So stay tuned!

P.S. I apologize for the long post. Sorry!

[Click the LINK below to go to the article.]

>What is Color Volume?<

Thank you for reading!



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post #44675 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Right now there is a bug that you can't be in 4k resolution and change 11pt settings. Lower your resolution to 1080 and you'll be fine.

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Yeah... known issue on new beta that we are working on. Workaround is to use a 1080p source and then you can modify all of the settings. Only 4k sources have the issue. I apologize for the problem.
I also decided to give calibration another try but can't change the 11pt settings on HDR-10 even if the HDR content is less than 4k. I tried on Amazon which normally takes longer to ramp up to 4k for me and then paused before it reached 4k and still could not get the 11pt settings to change from 0.

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post #44676 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 03:06 AM
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Thanks for the support

@Matt McRae

No questions for you.

I just wanted to pass along a huge thanks for keeping us all posted. I still cannot believe the high level of customer service + you keeping this forum continually updated. My last big set (one of your major competitors) was plagued with bad capacitors. I couldn't get their support to acknowledge the issue even though it was well documented in various online forums. The best response from their support was to try plugging the TV into a different outlet. It was like banging my head against the wall. In contrast here, we have the CTO answering specific questions and incorporating our feedback into future firmware updates. How amazing is that?

I am a (very happy) Vizio customer. Still loving my P65-C1 and it'll be almost a year in a few more months. Appreciate you guys bringing the set to Canada, thanks again for your ongoing support!
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post #44677 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please

Yesterday was a great day in the P series thread. Thanks to Matt for his input and participation. Hope he can sustain it for a few days while details and questions emerge on the announcements. It's been nice to see a bunch of our thread founders back and posting. New stuff energizes interest.

I missed much of the mashup from late day yesterday. It always surprises me how intent people can get on AVS. I find it more surprising that anyone thinks any of this is worth fighting over.

This is and will remain an owners thread for the Vizio P series. I mentioned the other day that a little debate is fine while we wait for the 2017 models to start shipping. Let's keep it civil. Alt-brand trolls need not post. People looking at the P are welcome with sincere questions.

Most importantly Matt McRae's participation has set a new benchmark on AVS for how the forum community can become an important component of a company's visioning, development, testing and delivery process. Let's treat this relationship with the professional respect it deserves and encourage it to continue. It's good to know Matt has thick skin!

One final point, if you have a bone to pick with Vizio, make your point in a clear, concise, respectful way and then take the fight to them directly. I think people enjoy hearing the stories and in some ways it's beneficial to know how to problem solve with a company we're all invested in. On the other hand, these tend to become quite personal issues and it weighs on the thread. There are limits.




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SONY Z9F LCD Master Series Owners Thread
Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
Sony Z9F 75, Vizio P75C1 UHD/HDR/DV, Pioneer Elite SC-95, Samsung UHD Bluray K8500, AppleTV 4K, CC Ultra

Last edited by thomasfxlt; 04-26-2017 at 04:24 AM.
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post #44678 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Not ignoring them but they are not questions that can be answered simply in a forum as it deals with how things are measured etc. See my previous posts on the topic. We don't see any over saturation on the DVGR files so it would require a deep discussion about the work flow you are using with Calman compared to our work flow. I have asked the team to pull together a best practices for calibration with the latest Calman software to try and help people attempting to professional calibrate these displays at home.

I didnt understand your request for daytime viewing mode...
One of my biggest questions also, here is the link for the Calibration thread. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2396954 I also wonder why our readings are not as close in DV and HDR10. SDR is pretty much right on in every aspect. My Color Checker lines up perfectly, but HDR, not so much. Right now I have been refraining from messing with HDR settings (which I am not a fan of doing). Color on HDR10 used to be 50 also (now 58). If you could post more info in the Calibration thread that would be amazing! Thank you sir.

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post #44679 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I also decided to give calibration another try but can't change the 11pt settings on HDR-10 even if the HDR content is less than 4k. I tried on Amazon which normally takes longer to ramp up to 4k for me and then paused before it reached 4k and still could not get the 11pt settings to change from 0.


I have the same issue with both HDR settings. Even at 720 or 1080p it will not allow a change to the 11 point. Guess we just have to wait for a patch or hot fix


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post #44680 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 05:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Not ignoring them but they are not questions that can be answered simply in a forum as it deals with how things are measured etc. See my previous posts on the topic. We don't see any over saturation on the DVGR files so it would require a deep discussion about the work flow you are using with Calman compared to our work flow. I have asked the team to pull together a best practices for calibration with the latest Calman software to try and help people attempting to professional calibrate these displays at home.

I didnt understand your request for daytime viewing mode...
Having a bright movie mode akin to the LG OLEDs Dolby Vision Bright Mode would be awesome for situations where HDR is too dim, just shifting the bottom of the luminance curve upwards a bit.
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post #44681 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I also decided to give calibration another try but can't change the 11pt settings on HDR-10 even if the HDR content is less than 4k. I tried on Amazon which normally takes longer to ramp up to 4k for me and then paused before it reached 4k and still could not get the 11pt settings to change from 0.
I think the device you have is outputting 4k no matter what. Like the Chromecast. If you have the shield you can do 1080p rec2020.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #44682 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 05:40 AM
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Yesterday was a great day in the P series thread. Thanks to Matt for his input and participation. Hope he can sustain it for a few days while details and questions emerge on the announcements. It's been nice to see a bunch of our thread founders back and posting. New stuff energizes interest.

I missed much of the mashup from late day yesterday. It always surprises me how intent people can get on AVS. I find it more surprising that anyone thinks any of this is worth fighting over.

This is and will remain an owners thread for the Vizio P series. I mentioned the other day that a little debate is fine while we wait for the 2017 models to start shipping. Let's keep it civil. Alt-brand trolls need not post. People looking at the P are welcome with sincere questions.

Most importantly Matt McRae's participation has set a new benchmark on AVS for how the forum community can become an important component of a company's visioning, development, testing and delivery process. Let's treat this relationship with the professional respect it deserves and encourage it to continue. It's good to know Matt has thick skin!

One final point, if you have a bone to pick with Vizio, make your point in a clear, concise, respectful way and then take the fight to them directly. I think people enjoy hearing the stories and in some ways it's beneficial to know how to problem solve with a company we're all invested in. On the other hand, these tend to become quite personal issues and it weighs on the thread. There are limits.

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well said: yesterday we received several reports on this thread

there are very few threads on AVS where a major manufacturer provides real time support like this: we would not want to lose this valuable resource: please post accordingly
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Some members have requested reinstatement to this thread and have agreed to abide by the instructions set out in the first post. I've reinstated them on the promise I won't regret it.

As always, I'm very thankful for everyone's contribution to the policing of this thread.

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post #44684 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 06:56 AM
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@Matt McRae
Do you know if this new firmware addresses the freezing issue me and a few others have been having?
My P65 freezes within the first 5-10 minutes of using the set every single time I use it now. The only way I can get video working again is if I completely power off and on the set. Twice when I've powered off the set the tablet has also rebooted at the same time. Not like a normal reboot where it says its shutting down but screen goes off then the vizio boot logo comes up.
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post #44685 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I think the device you have is outputting 4k no matter what. Like the Chromecast. If you have the shield you can do 1080p rec2020.

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The only two settings for rec 2020 I see on the Shield are:

YCbCr 4:2:2 12-bit Rec.2020
YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec.2020

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post #44686 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:09 AM
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I thought so too, but I'm seeing posts where beta users are posting their calibration changes for the new firmware and i'm not sure how they are getting around the bug.
Guess I should have asked in the Calibration thread.
I dont think its a bug, i was trying to do it also, and I dont think you can configure the white balance when casting, i think it has to be via HDMI. I'm a noob though, so could be completely off my rocker here lol.
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post #44687 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:14 AM
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Hi @Matt McRae ,

I'm a current P55 owner and I was just wondering if I could pick your brain a little about HDMI 2.1, specifically the proposed eARC feature. Is that something that could be added via firmware to the P-Series or does it require new hardware? It would be nice to be able to plug my devices directly to the TV and also keep the lossless audio. Thanks a bunch for your presence here in the forum!
eARC requires new hardware (but not necessarily HDMI 2.1). It has a new handshake protocol and supports much high data rates.

We are tracking it pretty closely... as you know the current CEC/ARC standards are very loose and cause numerous compatibility issues. eARC will hopefully remedy this and provide better audio quality when it finally arrives.
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post #44688 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:19 AM
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Having a bright movie mode akin to the LG OLEDs Dolby Vision Bright Mode would be awesome for situations where HDR is too dim, just shifting the bottom of the luminance curve upwards a bit.
Understood... this is why we have a Calibrated and Calibrated Dark. But your request is slightly different... in Calibrated we attempt to hold the black levels as best we can but maximize the brightness of the display at D65.
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post #44689 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:21 AM
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@Matt McRae
Do you know if this new firmware addresses the freezing issue me and a few others have been having?
My P65 freezes within the first 5-10 minutes of using the set every single time I use it now. The only way I can get video working again is if I completely power off and on the set. Twice when I've powered off the set the tablet has also rebooted at the same time. Not like a normal reboot where it says its shutting down but screen goes off then the vizio boot logo comes up.
First I would do a factory reset... but Second, we addressed MANY issues in the latest firmware... and although i don't have enough information on your exact problem, others are reporting a similar issue disappearing with the new firmware.
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post #44690 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Understood... this is why we have a Calibrated and Calibrated Dark. But your request is slightly different... in Calibrated we attempt to hold the black levels as best we can but maximize the brightness of the display at D65.
Yeah, Calibrated and Calibrated Dark don't quite work the same way for Dolby Vision like the DV Bright and DV Dark do on the OLED. Perhaps you guys can take a look at how LG's doing things on their end with Dolby Vision. But I believe that's what they're doing, just shifting the bottom of the curve up a little bit... But it really makes the image noticeably brighter without screwing up highlights and whatnot. And it also doesn't screw up the image like a typical Vivid mode either.

Something like Suicide Squad is unwatchable with ambient lighting in DV Vudu on the Vizio P and on OLED DV dark mode, but put the OLED in DV Bright Mode and it makes it perfectly watchable and enjoyable.

This is my number one requested feature on Vizio P series.
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post #44691 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:30 AM
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I've tried PMs so they would not be in this setting and email. I also asked Tyler @WiFi-Spy to pass the word with many screenshots of my workflow with what I was seeing with this months ago. DVGR questions etc....Nothing came of it.

I use CalMAN with the Dolby Vision workflow of course. I have attached my Saturation and Color Checker and you can clearly see how much 20% thru 80% saturation is above the DVGR targets and how oversaturated the Color checker targets are. I'm using the 10% window and ALZ=ON and all recommended setting from Spectracal for DV in CalMAN and on my Laptop.
I think the Calibration thread would be appropriate or privately via email as well.

My question about daytime viewing....
I know you control the backlight for dark viewing and reduce blooming in a couple ways.... Local dimming and Scene(global) dimming? The function that reduces the output to control the blooming. This is awesome in the theatrical setting from movies and such. But for everyday viewing during the day it would be nice not to have this. I can even disable ALZ and still have good black levels because they really don't matter as much in that setting. I'm wondering if there is a way to still have Local dimming but not dim the brightness? Whether we can set it ourselves ( enabled for Calibrated and disabled Calibrated Dark) or have it automatically triggered based on the light sensor for the room.
On the daytime viewing... our view in local dimming should be on at all times because of the inherent PQ benefits of our backlight system. Rough description: Calibrated Dark assumes you are in a dark room and optimizes the black levels while achieving an average reference brightness of 150-200nits (in SDR). In HDR we can peak well above 200nits in Calibrated Dark and keep the average close to reference because of the higher dynamic range. Calibrated disposes of the reference brightness and attempts to achieve the maximum brightness while holding accuracy in color and dynamic range. Meaning the whole curve moves up including the black levels because we push maximum power from the backlight. We are blooming more BUT in reality your eye will barely see the difference on good content because the image next to it is relatively brighter and you are assumed to be in a room with higher ambient light.

The only way for us to go brighter is to turn off the local dimming... which actually won't let the panel get any brighter but the effective average would go up... only because mid and dark areas would effectively rise. You are trading contrast and dynamic range for a higher average brightness (but not higher peak brightness). Or you change the white point/color temp to something closer to the underlying panel native. This will be brighter but you will shift away from accurate color (this is our VIVID mode).

So our recommendation for the most accurate and bright picture would be to use Calibrated and set backlight at 100% (not brightness).
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post #44692 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:33 AM
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Understood... this is why we have a Calibrated and Calibrated Dark. But your request is slightly different... in Calibrated we attempt to hold the black levels as best we can but maximize the brightness of the display at D65.
Can you comment on the differences in NIT's, between the different sizes? I didn't expect the P55 to be 100-200 nits lower than the P75.

Is a nit increase possible?

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post #44693 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:42 AM
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I have the same issue with both HDR settings. Even at 720 or 1080p it will not allow a change to the 11 point. Guess we just have to wait for a patch or hot fix


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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I think the device you have is outputting 4k no matter what. Like the Chromecast. If you have the shield you can do 1080p rec2020.

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Could be a color space issue for the set. Using a qd780 at 1080, RGB 10 bit it triggers and calibrates just fine, no problem adjusting the 11pt in HDR mode. BUT if I use 1080 with any of the 420,422,444 it does not calibrate correct. If you have a source that can output rgb try that.

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post #44694 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Can you comment on the differences in NIT's, between the different sizes? I didn't expect the P55 to be 100-200 nits lower than the P75.

Is a nit increase possible?

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55 is a ips panel.

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post #44695 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 07:48 AM
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55 is a ips panel.
Yes, are you saying its a black level or native contrast issue?

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post #44696 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 08:07 AM
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Freesync is very cool and something we are looking at but there are many challenges in the TV system architecture (much easier to pull off in a monitor).
Thanks for the reply @Matt McRae . With Xbox Scorpio coming out this year, my next TV ("display") purchase will hopefully support Freesync.

I noticed that Vizio seems to be phasing out the 50" P-series in 2017 -- which, despite being a 60Hz panel (gah!), makes a great gaming display. If this forum is representative of general enthusist purchasers, there's a lot of gamers looking for a console/PC oriented TV display.

I would suggest Vizio consider marketing a gaming-oriented flagship display for 2018: 50" model w/ Freesync, higher (120Hz+) refresh rate, lowest input lag, etc.. I bet there would be a lot of interest in this.
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post #44697 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 08:20 AM
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@Matt McRae

Just curious as to why the 50 inch P, or the 60, and 80 inch M are no longer an option ?
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post #44698 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 08:21 AM
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@Matt McRae
I'm not sure if you missed it, but I have asked you a couple times about an issue I have specifically with my P65-C1.
I called Vizio support about this issue and is case #14499073. Basically for a few firmwares now there is an issue with my display loading the calibration settings when I power on the display. Calman shows all my settings are displaying when I calibrate read series. As soon as I power off the display and back on again, my settings do not load. The numbers are still inputed, however when I read with my meter, the readings are identical to my precalibration readings.

I am a fairly tech savvy guy and have done all of the troubleshooting steps. Vizio support told me this is something they identified as an issue in a few displays, but haven't found the cause yet. This was 2 weeks ago.
Do you have any new info? I would like to know asap if this is something that can be fixed via firmware or if I need to setup a service call to have my display fixed or replaced.
Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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post #44699 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 08:21 AM
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Hi @Matt McRae ,

I see some folks got new remotes for their 2016 models?

How do I go about getting one? I hate the tablet!

Also, is the Xbox One S / Netflix HDR still an issue?
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post #44700 of 63948 Old 04-26-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
Thanks for the reply @Matt McRae . With Xbox Scorpio coming out this year, my next TV ("display") purchase will hopefully support Freesync.

I noticed that Vizio seems to be phasing out the 50" P-series in 2017 -- which, despite being a 60Hz panel (gah!), makes a great gaming display. If this forum is representative of general enthusist purchasers, there's a lot of gamers looking for a console/PC oriented TV display.

I would suggest Vizio consider marketing a gaming-oriented flagship display for 2018: 50" model w/ Freesync, higher (120Hz+) refresh rate, lowest input lag, etc.. I bet there would be a lot of interest in this.
Yeah, it doesn't look like ANY TV is gonna be Freesync compatible this year. I think LG is the first company to openly mess with variable refresh, and FWIR, the 2017 line isn't gonna have that. I think this is something only going to be available in the monitor space until next year at the earliest, and I'm highly doubtful there. Right now, there is ZERO TVs with variable refresh tech like Freesync, and I'm inclined to believe Matt in that basic TV processing is likely to be a huge hurdle, whereas monitors and their basic features make it easier to accomodate, and even so, the panel hardware must support variable refresh rate to begin with. You can't add it on.

I'm almost willing to bet Microsoft is gonna partner with a manufacturer somewhere to pave the way for Freesync on TV, kind of like Sony had that one Playstation TV with co-op 3D or whatever it was. But then again, Sony makes TVs.

I don't see Vizio tacking on Freesync support on their sets until that market has matured and become commonplace.

Until then, us gamers looking for Freesync for consoles is gonna have to wait for Freesync 2 capable monitors to hit the market, as regular Freesync monitors only do it through displayport, not HDMI.
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Last edited by Raven Crimson; 04-26-2017 at 08:43 AM.
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2016/2017 vizio p-series - nice pic(k)! / netflix , best value , D7000 , dolby vision , latest firmware - 6.0.18.1 - previous 5.0.16.1 , Vizio , Vudu

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