Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 1491 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 288502Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #44701 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 08:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
reallynotnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,139
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
Yeah, Calibrated and Calibrated Dark don't quite work the same way for Dolby Vision like the DV Bright and DV Dark do on the OLED. Perhaps you guys can take a look at how LG's doing things on their end with Dolby Vision. But I believe that's what they're doing, just shifting the bottom of the curve up a little bit... But it really makes the image noticeably brighter without screwing up highlights and whatnot. And it also doesn't screw up the image like a typical Vivid mode either.



Something like Suicide Squad is unwatchable with ambient lighting in DV Vudu on the Vizio P and on OLED DV dark mode, but put the OLED in DV Bright Mode and it makes it perfectly watchable and enjoyable.



This is my number one requested feature on Vizio P series.


What I do for this is use either Standard or Calibrated and change the gamma to either 2.0 or even 1.8 if you really need the extra brightness. Someone will probably tell me why that's not an ideal solution, but hey I can see the picture and it doesn't look terrible (but obviously dark room viewing is way better).
Right now I have:
Standard at 2.0
Calibrated at 2.1
Calibrated Dark at 2.2

My only request would be if Vizio made it possible to hide unused picture modes (and HDMI inputs) so I can cycle between those 3 faster instead of having to go past Vivid, Game and Computer to get back to Standard. @Matt McRae

Vizio 2016 P65, Denon x2200, 5.0.2 Elac Debut F5, C5, B4, and A4
PS4 Pro, AMD Vega 56, and Nvidia Shield
reallynotnick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44702 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 08:37 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by leetchie69 View Post
Hi @Matt McRae ,

I see some folks got new remotes for their 2016 models?

How do I go about getting one? I hate the tablet!

Also, is the Xbox One S / Netflix HDR still an issue?
What's the issue with the the Xbox One S and Netflix HDR?
turkish10 is offline  
post #44703 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 08:41 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Does anyone know if the new remote commands are built into a harmony hub yet?
Daemon11 likes this.
bodah97 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44704 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 08:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 442
Mentioned: 1169 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 3382
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Can you comment on the differences in NIT's, between the different sizes? I didn't expect the P55 to be 100-200 nits lower than the P75.

Is a nit increase possible?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
IPS panels have a lower transmittance than VA. So for a given backlight power you will get lower nits. This is one of the tradeoffs to get the better viewing angles.
Matt McRae is offline  
post #44705 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 08:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Hi Matt, I know you are a Formula One fan. Any chance Vizio could team up with someone to get us a 4K stream of the races? I believe they are available in Europe currently. I watch the races on my p65 on Comcast and it must be around 720p or something which looks pretty bad.
Collinms is offline  
post #44706 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 08:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stikle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Sovereign State of Eastern Oregon
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 955 Post(s)
Liked: 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
I would suggest Vizio consider marketing a gaming-oriented flagship display for 2018: 50" model w/ Freesync, higher (120Hz+) refresh rate, lowest input lag, etc.. I bet there would be a lot of interest in this.

This is not the worst suggestion...last year I spent over $700 on an Asus ROG 27" display with G-Sync specifically for gaming on an nVideo GPU. If Vizio had a competing option, well, I might have something different sitting on my desk.
DaverJ likes this.

The Seth-o-Plex 2.0 Build Thread - featuring Dolby Atmos/DTS:X 9.4.4 & 4K Dolby Vision!
Vizio | Dual Denon Atmos AVRs | Oppo | SVS | Mirage | Onkyo | Monoprice
stikle is offline  
post #44707 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:02 AM
 
alexanderg823's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,449
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3128 Post(s)
Liked: 2544
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
What I do for this is use either Standard or Calibrated and change the gamma to either 2.0 or even 1.8 if you really need the extra brightness. Someone will probably tell me why that's not an ideal solution, but hey I can see the picture and it doesn't look terrible (but obviously dark room viewing is way better).
Right now I have:
Standard at 2.0
Calibrated at 2.1
Calibrated Dark at 2.2

My only request would be if Vizio made it possible to hide unused picture modes (and HDMI inputs) so I can cycle between those 3 faster instead of having to go past Vivid, Game and Computer to get back to Standard. @Matt McRae
the LG OLED Dolby Vision Bright Mode is much better than just messing with gamma... It really makes the overall image much brighter while retaining depth and contrast.
shoman94 likes this.
alexanderg823 is offline  
post #44708 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 442
Mentioned: 1169 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 3382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collinms View Post
Hi Matt, I know you are a Formula One fan. Any chance Vizio could team up with someone to get us a 4K stream of the races? I believe they are available in Europe currently. I watch the races on my p65 on Comcast and it must be around 720p or something which looks pretty bad.
Something I have been waiting for :-) Formula 1 management finally implemented a 4k feed this year (Sky is distributing it in Europe). However, NBCSports has not licensed the 4k feed and is not distributing it in US yet. And worse, the compression is VERY high on the feed we do get which is why it looks low res and has a lot of macro-blocking. When I asked NBC last year they didnt have any plans to upgrade their channel to 4K and get the higher feed. I hope that changes
Matt McRae is offline  
post #44709 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:19 AM
Member
 
theArsenal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Anyone given this a shot yet?

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...proved-desktop
reallynotnick likes this.
theArsenal is offline  
post #44710 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
We are making a call on this now. Besides a couple of known regressions like the 11pt issue we know about... the new firmware is a big step forward. We will likely roll it out widely this week or next and we fix a couple of the target identified issues and do a patch later. You will really see big improvements on new firmware...
Awesome! Thank you, Matt.
VancityS4 is offline  
post #44711 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:29 AM
Member
 
football751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
What I do for this is use either Standard or Calibrated and change the gamma to either 2.0 or even 1.8 if you really need the extra brightness. Someone will probably tell me why that's not an ideal solution, but hey I can see the picture and it doesn't look terrible (but obviously dark room viewing is way better).
Right now I have:
Standard at 2.0
Calibrated at 2.1
Calibrated Dark at 2.2

My only request would be if Vizio made it possible to hide unused picture modes (and HDMI inputs) so I can cycle between those 3 faster instead of having to go past Vivid, Game and Computer to get back to Standard. @Matt McRae
I do something similar. SDR @ Gamma 2.4 looks great, so that's what Calibrated is. Calibrated Dark is also Gamma 2.4, which I find great at night for SDR and DV. Then I made a Calibrated DV setting with Gamma 2.1 for watching during the day, though I also try 2.0 sometimes. I haven't watched any HDR10 content since the latest beta firmware was released.
football751 is offline  
post #44712 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:34 AM
Member
 
pipes55443's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodah97 View Post
Does anyone know if the new remote commands are built into a harmony hub yet?
As far as I can tell, yes. Info, Menu, and the D-Pad work great.
Daemon11 likes this.
pipes55443 is offline  
post #44713 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:38 AM
Member
 
leetchie69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish10 View Post
What's the issue with the the Xbox One S and Netflix HDR?
Last I remember it did not work.

If you turn on Color Sub-sampling on the port, the colors are all washed out and it looks terrible.

Something to do with the codec negotiation between Xbox One and the TV.
leetchie69 is offline  
post #44714 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:42 AM
Senior Member
 
abouttreefitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by theArsenal View Post
This could be our way to stream Amazon. Interested to hear about the results.
abouttreefitty is offline  
post #44715 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,814
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1852 Post(s)
Liked: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
IPS panels have a lower transmittance than VA. So for a given backlight power you will get lower nits. This is one of the tradeoffs to get the better viewing angles.
That's disappointing.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
thomasfxlt likes this.
DisplayCalNoob is offline  
post #44716 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Frackville, PA
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post
@Matt McRae

Just curious as to why the 50 inch P, or the 60, and 80 inch M are no longer an option ?
I asked this same question twice yesterday about the P50 and got no answer.
I had an issue this morning with my one Kuro were it tripped the surge protector. When I went to plug it in it tripped again. So I may have one TV failing now and I don't want to buy a discontinued model as this is a 60Hz panel and may require different firmware than the 120Hz models. I really don't have the room in my house for bigger TVs and the 55 is IPS so I don't get the black levels of the other models. I am not certain as to what I may do now for a replacement.

"You lose it in here you're in a world of hurt"
Jed1 is offline  
post #44717 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:53 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 7
@Matt McRae Just curious as to what makes the 50 inch p series incapable of 120hz 1080p. If the processing hardware is the same does it mean it is the properties of the screen itself that prevent it? And why is flicker so bad when I enable clearmotion. It makes my wife and I sick especially if we look away from the screen but still have it in our peripherals. The only way we can enjoy clear motion is if we keep the tv in full brightness and even then it still makes us a little wheezy in our peripherals. Why is this? I generally do not hear as many complaints from the larger p series tvs, I assume since they can reach theoretical 900hz clear motion. Having full brightness is great for some things, but at other times it hurts our eye fatigue and we lower the brightness, but doing this makes using clear motion a disaster. Thoughts are appreciated. (also, love the new remote, it is so much more convenient that the previous one, buttons can be a little squishy at times)
Beazermyst is offline  
post #44718 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:53 AM
Member
 
IntenseImage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 45
@Matt McRae

Currently on the latest beta fw and can now only select stereo output from my xb1s. Prior to the beta, bitstream was working. Is this being addressed in the next release?


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
AirborneMaikai likes this.
IntenseImage is offline  
post #44719 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 09:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
reallynotnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,139
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by theArsenal View Post


I'm really curious as to how this works with DRM and HDR (I'm guessing it doesn't for either)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abouttreefitty View Post
This could be our way to stream Amazon. Interested to hear about the results.

There is already a post on the Google page that says it doesn't work with Amazon (I'm betting it's due to DRM)

Vizio 2016 P65, Denon x2200, 5.0.2 Elac Debut F5, C5, B4, and A4
PS4 Pro, AMD Vega 56, and Nvidia Shield
reallynotnick is offline  
post #44720 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:10 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
I'm really curious as to how this works with DRM and HDR (I'm guessing it doesn't for either)




There is already a post on the Google page that says it doesn't work with Amazon (I'm betting it's due to DRM)
It also wouldn't work with HDR regardless because Amazon does not stream HDR on the browser.
Daemon11 likes this.
flowerdealer is offline  
post #44721 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:12 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodah97 View Post
Does anyone know if the new remote commands are built into a harmony hub yet?
I don't have the newest beta firmware, but I use an older Harmony one remote, and when I setup the P65 it already had the remote commands in it. Including the Cast input button. It should all already be there.
Daemon11 likes this.
benk016 is offline  
post #44722 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:16 AM
Member
 
SteveMelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 8
@Matt McRae

Hi Matt,

I noticed that you mentioned that some older remote controllers will work. Is there a possibility that data entry will be accepted via a keyboard on a controller?

For example, the XRT500.
https://support.vizio.com/s/article/...language=en_US

Thank you for time and patience on this thread.

Cheers
SteveMelo is offline  
post #44723 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:27 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ph8te's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,316
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6520 Post(s)
Liked: 6235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beazermyst View Post
@Matt McRae Just curious as to what makes the 50 inch p series incapable of 120hz 1080p. If the processing hardware is the same does it mean it is the properties of the screen itself that prevent it? And why is flicker so bad when I enable clearmotion. It makes my wife and I sick especially if we look away from the screen but still have it in our peripherals. The only way we can enjoy clear motion is if we keep the tv in full brightness and even then it still makes us a little wheezy in our peripherals. Why is this? I generally do not hear as many complaints from the larger p series tvs, I assume since they can reach theoretical 900hz clear motion. Having full brightness is great for some things, but at other times it hurts our eye fatigue and we lower the brightness, but doing this makes using clear motion a disaster. Thoughts are appreciated. (also, love the new remote, it is so much more convenient that the previous one, buttons can be a little squishy at times)


The P50 is a 60Hz panel, thus no 120Hz capabilities. This of course is as far as I know (could be wrong).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
reallynotnick likes this.
Ph8te is online now  
post #44724 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:32 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by leetchie69 View Post
Last I remember it did not work.

If you turn on Color Sub-sampling on the port, the colors are all washed out and it looks terrible.

Something to do with the codec negotiation between Xbox One and the TV.
Hmm I used my xbox one s and watched Marco Polo on via the netflix app and it was reading HDR10 and it looked amazing.

Paused it then casted it from my phone and Dolby Vision looked even better for that show.
Jim Milton likes this.
turkish10 is offline  
post #44725 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atharun18999 View Post
That makes sense.

Given that the P series has local dimming, was there no way to minimize the form factor? The units are rather thick (as are other FALD units from other companies). Was there no way to thin out the unit beyond what it was at the time the series was entering production? Between that and the legs it stands out a decent bit. Just curious.
This TV is a lot more thin than my crt. Lol

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
jopat is offline  
post #44726 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 442
Mentioned: 1169 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 3382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beazermyst View Post
@Matt McRae Just curious as to what makes the 50 inch p series incapable of 120hz 1080p. If the processing hardware is the same does it mean it is the properties of the screen itself that prevent it? And why is flicker so bad when I enable clearmotion. It makes my wife and I sick especially if we look away from the screen but still have it in our peripherals. The only way we can enjoy clear motion is if we keep the tv in full brightness and even then it still makes us a little wheezy in our peripherals. Why is this? I generally do not hear as many complaints from the larger p series tvs, I assume since they can reach theoretical 900hz clear motion. Having full brightness is great for some things, but at other times it hurts our eye fatigue and we lower the brightness, but doing this makes using clear motion a disaster. Thoughts are appreciated. (also, love the new remote, it is so much more convenient that the previous one, buttons can be a little squishy at times)
The panel itself is only 60hz. 120hz panels are disappearing quickly for smaller sizes (50" used to be considered a large size TV but now a small size).

I hear those that are still interested in a high end 50"... we are finding most people buying the M50 but we will continue to look at this for 2018.
A.Bell, Hyabusha, DaverJ and 5 others like this.
Matt McRae is offline  
post #44727 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
kensingtonwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Has anyone experienced noxious off gassing fumes from the p65 when you are breaking it in? I've probably ran it 30 hours in 5 days and it still stinks. I'm also getting mild headaches from it and am concerned because of the prop 65 warning. Should I be concerned? I'm not a hypochondriac but I know a mild headache when I feel one. Any input on the matter is greatly appreciated. I called vizio about the prop 65 warning to inquire about the materials being used and their toxicity level but of course no one could enlighten me on the subject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kensingtonwick is offline  
post #44728 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 10:55 AM
Senior Member
 
RJ_Reda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: The Great Indoors
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by abouttreefitty View Post
I could be wrong, but I think this is the new remote. I like it!

I wonder if we'll be able to purchase this remote direct from Vizio at some point in the future.
RJ_Reda is offline  
post #44729 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 11:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
The panel itself is only 60hz. 120hz panels are disappearing quickly for smaller sizes (50" used to be considered a large size TV but now a small size).



I hear those that are still interested in a high end 50"... we are finding most people buying the M50 but we will continue to look at this for 2018.


I love my P50, it is the best i could get for the money i had. I asked you once on twitter if it was worth it to buy the P50 instead of the M55. Definitely, best purchase ever. Next year i will save some more money and buy the new P series in a bigger size, hopefully prices will get better. I won't buy any other brand again, vizio has a customer for life. The P50 is a great display, after all the firmware updates, almost all issues have been resolved. I would definitely recommend the P50 for people on a budget. Excellent features and excellent picture quality for a nice price.
@Matt McRae


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RJ_Reda, A.Bell, Hyabusha and 2 others like this.

Last edited by Rpcz; 04-26-2017 at 11:10 AM.
Rpcz is offline  
post #44730 of 64106 Old 04-26-2017, 11:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post
Back in January or so, @Matt McRae said that the always-on USB ports were intended to provide power to the tablet's charging dock. Since people with bias lights were commenting on the inconvenience of the lights always being powered (unless you unplug or have a switch on them), he said they'd look at possibly adding a toggle in the settings to allow for bias light users or tablet chargers to have their pick. Never heard anything more about it since. Maybe it's still coming or perhaps it's been forgotten.
This would be really nice!
RJ_Reda likes this.
Daemon11 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
2016/2017 vizio p-series - nice pic(k)! / netflix , best value , D7000 , dolby vision , latest firmware - 6.0.18.1 - previous 5.0.16.1 , Vizio , Vudu

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off