Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 38 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post
Turning up sharpness is not what im after. I'd rather have a more detailed image with sharpness set closest to zero which is what I get with the Samsung, and Sony I own now. What you are essentially seeing here is an inherently better tv, and an admirable job by Vizio by giving us a load of new features others don't have, while delivering a decent picture for the price. It's all relative, and I will admit, it's a great job by Vizio, and for that price I see why it's being respected. I'm happy for all you owners, and hope Vizio keeps making improvements. I'd like nothing more than Vizio to drive competitive prices down.
I can't say whether or not there is a noticeable difference between the Vizio and a Sony/Samsung as I don't have them side by side. From all accounts, Sony has the best upscaling and the Samsung is not far behind it. But judging from a picture is not really the best tool to use as the camera settings, handshake and focusing will definitely affect the picture.
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post #1112 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:00 AM
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there used to be a thread dedicated to how to take the best photos/screenshots possible of an LCD

without some consistent protocols on how these photos are taken/posted/ and interpreted it is pretty much hit or miss....

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post #1113 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
there used to be a thread dedicated to how to take the best photos/screenshots possible of an LCD

without some consistent protocols on how these photos are taken/posted/ and interpreted it is pretty much hit or miss....
Absolutely. The pictures I'm posting are for "impressions" not "comparisons" or technical analysis. My gosh, they are pictures of pictures and subject to all the issues and variables that go into taking a photograph, much less all the variables on the display side. It's tough enough in a lab environment to get good comparisons.

The fact that that most of these pictures are being taken with cell phone cameras (including mine) should be enough to disqualify anything on here as "absolute".
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post #1114 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
With all due respect, you can't draw that conclusion from "pictures of pictures" and without having control of the test.

I respect what the OP has done to represent what he's got and what he is seeing but I also know that there's a lot more to it.
Yes there are variables with taking pics like this for comparison, but when your using same source, same camera, and decent settings for both sets, we are getting apples to apples. And yes people will draw there own conclusions, but there are certainly things you can easily see with pics taken like this. One of those is which is showing a bit more detail than the other. I don't understand why some are being on the defensive all of the sudden?

When the Samsung was set improperly, and looked markably worse than the Vizio you and others seemed to enjoy that. Now that the Samsung is set properly, and imo the tables have turned, all Of the sudden pictures don't mean anything... Not to mention all the pics you've taken yourself of this set and showed off here. I guess those don't mean much either? I assure you, I am not against Vizio in any way.

I wanted to see how this tv stacks up against the big guys, (Sony/Samsung) and I can clearly see that Vizio has stepped up there game with the pictures you and others have provided. I want to see Vizio continue to come out of left field with better tv's to hopefully one day drive down prices of the competition, Prices are ridiculous imo). I thank you and others for sharing. Definitely impressed with them so far, as soon as my local Best Buy sets a set up I will then conclude my thoughts on the tv. I've seen all I need to here.
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post #1115 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
there used to be a thread dedicated to how to take the best photos/screenshots possible of an LCD

without some consistent protocols on how these photos are taken/posted/ and interpreted it is pretty much hit or miss....
How about an unbiased review from one of our favorite AVS Super Moderators instead?
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post #1116 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:11 AM
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Honestly without this forum, I wouldn't have bought either TV/Home Entertainment Display (:-D) . I just happened across the forum when researching my next purchase, and instantly, knew I found a home.

Samsung and I go way back as far as products. I used to put up a blinder to any other products and would recommend Samsung or sometimes LG to my friends. Over the years, I've become the go guy for gadget advice for my friends, and in doing so, I've become a bit more brand aware and I am willing to try new products, so I can make proper recommendations to my friends and/or fix devices.

The pictures I'm taking are doing neither TV complete justice to be honest. I wish I could keep both sets lol (I am returning the Samsung on principle, and not being able to fully enjoy the set off center) they are stellar, kudos to Samsung and Vizio. From a value proposition standpoint, I can't say NO to Vizio though, it really a great set.

I am not trying to sway anyone either way. If you can afford the Samsung and have it already keep it!!! If you're on the market and want a great set at different price point, Vizio is telling a compelling story.

Current TV's / Home Theater Displays: Vizio P65 C-1 & Vizio P55 F-1
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post #1117 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
It's my opinion that when there is no input, the image you see is entirely "unprocessed" for backlight. When I display a entirely black pattern on the panel, the uniformity is better with FALD "on" or "off". The black level with FALD off is gray (but uniform) while the same pattern with FALD on is near black and uniform.

Tried that with an all black pattern, same results. I would really appreciate it if you could take a picture of yours. It will help me decide whether to exchange or keep this one.

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post #1118 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:14 AM
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Thank you all to those who answered my questions about price and 55 ips panels. I just purchased the P55 this morning, Cant wait!

One last question, I am replacing a panasonic GT series. I currently have a single HDMI cable ran from a switch to the TV. Do I need a new HDMI cable and switch to fully support the new Vizio P55?
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post #1119 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bobzond View Post
Thank you all to those who answered my questions about price and 55 ips panels. I just purchased the P55 this morning, Cant wait!

One last question, I am replacing a panasonic GT series. I currently have a single HDMI cable ran from a switch to the TV. Do I need a new HDMI cable and switch to fully support the new Vizio P55?
I believe it comes with an HDMI cable.
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post #1120 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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When the Samsung was set improperly, and looked markably worse than the Vizio you and others seemed to enjoy that. Now that the Samsung is set properly, and imo the tables have turned, all Of the sudden pictures don't mean anything... Not to mention all the pics you've taken yourself of this set and showed off here. I guess those don't mean much either? I assure you, I am not against Vizio in any way.
Find one instance where I've commented on the P series vs the competition in any way. Also, find one instance where I've inferred that my photos imply anything other than "this is really nice television".

Nothing I've posted has been for comparison or technical purpose. It's just a great TV in and of itself. If you read the entire thread, you'll find that I specifically stated that "I won't comment on Samsung or Sony" as I've never owned one. I also never commented on the OP's pics other than that I appreciated his intent but that there were issues with the comparison.

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post #1121 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:18 AM
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I believe it comes with an HDMI cable.
Confirming that it does come with a HDMI cable.
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post #1122 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:21 AM
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Honestly without this forum, I wouldn't have bought either TV/Home Entertainment Display (:-D) . I just happened across the forum when researching my next purchase, and instantly, knew I found a home.

Samsung and I go way back as far as products. I used to put up a blinder to any other products and would recommend Samsung or sometimes LG to my friends. Over the years, I've become the go guy for gadget advice for my friends, and in doing so, I've become a bit more brand aware and I am willing to try new products, so I can make proper recommendations to my friends and/or fix devices.

The pictures I'm taking are doing neither TV complete justice to be honest. I wish I could keep both sets lol (I am returning the Samsung on principle, and not being able to fully enjoy the set off center) they are stellar, kudos to Samsung and Vizio. From a value proposition standpoint, I can't say NO to Vizio though, it really a great set.

I am not trying to sway anyone either way. If you can afford the Samsung and have it already keep it!!! If you're on the market and want a great set at different price point, Vizio is telling a compelling story.

In regards to viewing angle, how would you grade the Vizio on a scale of 1-10? I know it uses a VA panel so the angle will be limited, but my Samsung is horrible and i'm thinking about a change
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post #1123 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:21 AM
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At the very least these sets "should" shake up the pricing on FALD sets. There is zero reason not to get this set if you are in the market for a new TV.
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Absolutely. The pictures I'm posting are for "impressions" not "comparisons" or technical analysis. My gosh, they are pictures of pictures and subject to all the issues and variables that go into taking a photograph, much less all the variables on the display side. It's tough enough in a lab environment to get good comparisons.

The fact that that most of these pictures are being taken with cell phone cameras (including mine) should be enough to disqualify anything on here as "absolute".
Exactly. I like pics just as much as everyone else, but they are more for showing things like dead pixels, banding, vignetting and to a lesser extent things like clouding or contrast. There is too much variation in settings and being filtered through various camera lens with different capturing abilities. We can only wait for in depth reviews of for an expert controlled shootout environment to see how the really stack up.
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post #1125 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:29 AM
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Looks a a tiny bit more detailed on the js9500, especially seen in the face and head. Still very close.
Unless you see these in person...

The photos show either the camera exposure was different or the EOTF (gamma) is different. Easily seen in his suit (note one is darker than other). But again without being there it's hard to say.

Also is sharpness on the Samsung turned up?

... so subjective ...

One thing for sure I can say; this TV is a game changer...
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post #1126 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bobzond View Post
Thank you all to those who answered my questions about price and 55 ips panels. I just purchased the P55 this morning, Cant wait!

One last question, I am replacing a panasonic GT series. I currently have a single HDMI cable ran from a switch to the TV. Do I need a new HDMI cable and switch to fully support the new Vizio P55?
Congrats on your purchase...please come back and post your impressions (with PICS lol!) when you get it set up. I too am in the market for the P55 and very curious as to how the IPS panel stacks up.
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post #1127 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:33 AM
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At the very least these sets "should" shake up the pricing on FALD sets. There is zero reason not to get this set if you are in the market for a new TV.
It is still going for close to 700 over what the 2015 M series is going for right now at places like Sams and Costco. Just comparing the 65 inch, at 75 the gap is even bigger (1000 more).

Not saying I am not trying to convince the wife to pack up the M65 I just bought at Costco, but I am trying to convince myself that 700 dollars is worth it for little content available streaming wise.
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post #1128 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:34 AM
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@SiGGy no Sharpness is only at 5, I didn't see the need to go higher.

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post #1129 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:35 AM
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Order placed for p55 to be delivered Wednesday.

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post #1130 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by xlostnspacex View Post
@SiGGy no Sharpness is only at 5, I didn't see the need to go higher.
When taking comparison photos... things should be equal.


Same camera settings (aperture; exposure, focus, depth of field, use a tripod... huge list) and use a high quality camera not a phone.

TV
Same gamma (measured)
correct black level
same peak luminance
0 sharpness on both (turned off basically)
no black enhancements...
same color space
... another long list of stuff

Otherwise you are just be showing the differences in TV settings or automatic camera settings...

Have you ever watched the TV Shootout live on internet? Ever notice all of the internet chat people saying "Wow; that TV looks WAY different...blah blah is off" when in fact all are calibrated and look basically the same in person. Certainly not as far off as the video would make you think.

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post #1131 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post
Yes there are variables with taking pics like this for comparison, but when your using same source, same camera, and decent settings for both sets, we are getting apples to apples. And yes people will draw there own conclusions, but there are certainly things you can easily see with pics taken like this. One of those is which is showing a bit more detail than the other. I don't understand why some are being on the defensive all of the sudden?

When the Samsung was set improperly, and looked markably worse than the Vizio you and others seemed to enjoy that. Now that the Samsung is set properly, and imo the tables have turned, all Of the sudden pictures don't mean anything... Not to mention all the pics you've taken yourself of this set and showed off here. I guess those don't mean much either? I assure you, I am not against Vizio in any way.

I wanted to see how this tv stacks up against the big guys, (Sony/Samsung) and I can clearly see that Vizio has stepped up there game with the pictures you and others have provided. I want to see Vizio continue to come out of left field with better tv's to hopefully one day drive down prices of the competition, Prices are ridiculous imo). I thank you and others for sharing. Definitely impressed with them so far, as soon as my local Best Buy sets a set up I will then conclude my thoughts on the tv. I've seen all I need to here.
Actually, this still is not an apples to apples comparison as the sets do not look close to being calibrated the same - the contrast and/or back lighting on the Samsung looks cranked much higher than the Vizio. If you look at the jacket, you can see more detail on the Samsung than the Vizio. But look at the shirt (especially the buttons) and it's blown out on the Samsung. The only real apples to apples you'd get would be if both TVs were calibrated to an equal standard.

I do agree with your last sentence - your own eyes seeing each TV in person is the the best way to tell what looks best to you as that is all that really matters.

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post #1132 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:47 AM
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As far as talking about pictures from a cell camera. I can take three pictures of the same screen and they will all be different. It's about what part of the screen the camera's auto focus focusses on. One pic can have black crush the other can be to bright in highlights. Aka camera sensor.
There great to have but you can't judge detail ect from a pic.

Plus the 9500 has been out for a year and most people have had the time to calibrate and or play with the picture settings. With the New P series most will be fine tuning there setting for a while yet.

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post #1133 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by roaf85 View Post
It is still going for close to 700 over what the 2015 M series is going for right now at places like Sams and Costco. Just comparing the 65 inch, at 75 the gap is even bigger (1000 more).

Not saying I am not trying to convince the wife to pack up the M65 I just bought at Costco, but I am trying to convince myself that 700 dollars is worth it for little content available streaming wise.
but is it worth a future proof TV? This set really covers you for the transition to UHD.
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post #1134 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Unless you see these in person...

The photos show either the camera exposure was different or the EOTF (gamma) is different. Easily seen in his suit (note one is darker than other). But again without being there it's hard to say.

Also is sharpness on the Samsung turned up?

... so subjective ...

One thing for sure I can say; this TV is a game changer...
IIRC the Vizio has noise reduction on. That could make a difference. Also, most recent Vizio sets seem to be "neutral" on sharpness when set at about "20", not "0"

It appears that both of these sets are excellent. One can get a small taste of performance from the pics, but one certainly cannot draw firm A vs. B comparisons from the photos.
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post #1135 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by videoguy60467 View Post
IIRC the Vizio has noise reduction on. That could make a difference. Also, most recent Vizio sets seem to be "neutral" on sharpness when set at about "20", not "0"

It appears that both of these sets are excellent. One can get a small taste of performance from the pics, but one certainly cannot draw firm A vs. B comparisons from the photos.
that is true
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post #1136 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:09 AM
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I am going to be wall mounting a P65 but I can't seem to find the required length of the M6 screw. Does anyone know?
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post #1137 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by videoguy60467 View Post
IIRC the Vizio has noise reduction on. That could make a difference. Also, most recent Vizio sets seem to be "neutral" on sharpness when set at about "20", not "0"

It appears that both of these sets are excellent. One can get a small taste of performance from the pics, but one certainly cannot draw firm A vs. B comparisons from the photos.
Right; my point was they need to be on equal ground. Not the numbers set specifically Some TV's 50 is neutral. Without a sharpness chart be difficult to determine these things.

Ya, if the noise reduction can't be turned off... Hopefully it can be.
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post #1138 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post
Looks a a tiny bit more detailed on the js9500, especially seen in the face and head. Still very close.
Not surprising the Samsung looks better. Better processing makes better picture. What one must remember the processing by said unit is a very important part just as much as the Panel.

I have yet to see a Vizio that has the upscaling/processing that Samsungs/Sony has, not to mention the motion is not near that of a Sony. Even Samsung has trouble on that end

Current Sets: Sony XBR65A9F Master Series, Sony XBR75X940C, Sony XBR75X940D, Samsung UN65KS9800, TCL 65R617
Previous Sets: Samsung Q9FN, Sony XBR65X930D, XBR65X900B, XBR49X830C, Samsung KS8000, KU6500, UN55KS8500, UN49JS8500, JS9000, JU7090, JU6500, JU6400, HU9000, HU7250, PN64F8500, Vizio P65, LG 65EF9500, LG 55EC9300, Hisense 55H8C, TCL P-Series (55P607)
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post #1139 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:40 AM
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Since people asked, here are a few from my P55. I'll try and take some more this week in a more systematic manner, I'm largely still tweaking and playing with the set under different conditions. I'm very happy with the IPS panel myself, the viewing angles are worth it for my setup (plus I can't fit anything bigger in that particular space otherwise I would do so).

These are all Vudu UHD DV -- Mad Max, Man of Steel
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post #1140 of 64217 Old 03-28-2016, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlostnspacex View Post
Local HD new cast.

P65:

JS9500:


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Yes, you definitely have the JS9500 looking a whole lot better now!
I would still take the Vizio, though.
Of course, I haven't yet experienced the "sometimes slow dimming issue"; I'll get to play with my P-65 on Friday. I expect it's a matter of eye perception and balancing the dimming algorithms? Overly fast dimming, as has already been said, can look like flickering.
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2016/2017 vizio p-series - nice pic(k)! / netflix , best value , D7000 , dolby vision , latest firmware - 6.0.18.1 - previous 5.0.16.1 , Vizio , Vudu

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