Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 526 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15751 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Contuzzi View Post
Yeah, we need an update. I'm getting worried.
90-120 is still about 2 weeks out before we even hit the 90 day mark.
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post #15752 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by quaff2001 View Post
In case this helps, I watch everything on Calibrated Dark with zero changes to any settings. Besides ARC craziness that may be resolved now, I have no issues with this TV from any sources (directv, apple tv, casting and xbox one).
By any chance, do you mean zero changes as in how the TV shipped with all motion enhancements off?
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post #15753 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomaay View Post
From reading sounds like I might have to turn off the reduce motion blur that other posters had said I needed on all the time on everything. Other posts seem to say to turn on GLL. What does GLL turn off specifically? The Reduce Judder setting made a huge difference for me in watching Sicario UHD Blu ray from Samsung 8500 player. When they do the border crossing scene on the way back out from Mexico near the beginning, the camera shows an overhead shot panning vertically up the stopped cars in the crossing. This scene makes it very easy to see how the reduce judder setting affects the PQ. For me a setting of 5 seemed good. What do you think?
No one knows everything that GLL turns off except for maybe( @Matt McRae ). However, I can tell you that it does not turn off the processing for the sharpness and Noise Reduction settings but it does turn off all processing for the Reduce Judder, Reduce Motion Blur, and the Film Mode settings. It may turn off more processing but I was not able to determine anything else that it turns off.

The Reduce Judder control will introduce unnatural motion for 24 FPS material. That unnatural motion sometimes called the soap opera effect may or may not be pleasing to the user. However, if you want the most accurate motion for 24 FPS film then you would want to turn all of the motion interpolation settings to zero and also use the Film Mode set to Auto.

I actually turn on GLL even for HDR material but I am not suggesting that anyone else do that at the moment. I am not sure if turning on GLL for HDR content also defeats any of the HDR features yet. Therefore, I just recommend keeping the Reduce Judder and Reduce Motion Blur set to zero for HDR content at the moment.

However, for all other content I turn on GLL. That includes regular Satellite TV programs, non HDR movies, PS4 Games, and computer games. That will disable the Film Mode settings so some people may choose not to do that. However, I haven’t seen any benefit from that setting with the 240 Hz Vizio TVs I have owned so I don’t mind turning it off on those TVs.
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post #15754 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post
By any chance, do you mean zero changes as in how the TV shipped with all motion enhancements off?
Correct. I literally took the TV out of the box, set up the tablet and wireless and put it on the wall. I haven't felt the need to make any changes yet. It looks so good and that's saying something since I am coming from 65" VT60 plasma.
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post #15755 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quite a privileged group we have become; we go 2 weeks without an update from the Vizio CTO and people get "worried":roll eyes:


To repeat: Vizio has said all along the HDR10 update would be 90-120 days from initial release. We still have until the end of the month before we hit 90.


This was the last word from Matt from the 24th:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post44265402

Quote:
We are working diligently on testing the HDR10 builds now. And we are looking at splitting it into 2 releases - the first that would support HDR10 on HDMI for those that want to use Bluray... then the fully planned release which includes streaming support.

Will keep the group up to date.

Matt


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Yeah, we need an update. I'm getting worried.
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post #15756 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
The main reason I have GLL On is b.c it completely eliminated my lip sync issues with 24hz content using an AVR.
Yes it will certainly resolve most lip synch issues. However, there are a few rare cases that it would not completely resolve.
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post #15757 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:50 PM
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Hi guys, I have P65 and have been loving it so far. Since this set does not support HDR 10 until a later firmware update, how are you all watching HDR content on UHD BDs? I was of the belief that these discs only offer HDR 10 at this point. Can anybody explain what I'm missing here?

Also, has anybody else had any issues wirelessly charging the tablet? Mine only charges when directly plugged in now. I've restarted, updated the apps, and done everything else I could think of to no avail.
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post #15758 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GardenVariety View Post
GoT is notoriously bad with the P series' motion enhancements. Turn GLL on for everything if you want natural motion. GLL will simply disable most of the TV's motion processing. Having said all of this, if you enjoy Reduce Judder at 5 then I believe the natural look with GLL on will not work with your tastes. I personally get nauseous with RJ at anything above 1.
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Originally Posted by Tomaay View Post
I'm seeing this odd behavior with slow mo too. Game of Thrones was really weird to watch with this. Still having ARC issues too. Switching to optical and then back to ARC seems to make it find it again.
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Originally Posted by Tomaay View Post
I'm seeing this too my my P75 with DTV C61K client connected to HR-54 DVR. It was driving me crazy during Game of Thrones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomaay View Post
From reading sounds like I might have to turn off the reduce motion blur that other posters had said I needed on all the time on everything. Other posts seem to say to turn on GLL. What does GLL turn off specifically? The Reduce Judder setting made a huge difference for me in watching Sicario UHD Blu ray from Samsung 8500 player. When they do the border crossing scene on the way back out from Mexico near the beginning, the camera shows an overhead shot panning vertically up the stopped cars in the crossing. This scene makes it very easy to see how the reduce judder setting affects the PQ. For me a setting of 5 seemed good. What do you think?
I watched GOT and saw the same occasional stutters in the last episode. I did not see it in last weeks episode or other content. This was downloaded so it was more likely to be HBO. I rarely see these stutters and most recently as posted earlier in the thread a few weeks ago, this was happening with ABC content like Agents of Shield and Agent Carter.
Although, there were no issues in the season finale of AoS as reported as well.

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post #15759 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by harrison5394 View Post
Hi guys, I have P65 and have been loving it so far. Since this set does not support HDR 10 until a later firmware update, how are you all watching HDR content on UHD BDs? I was of the belief that these discs only offer HDR 10 at this point. Can anybody explain what I'm missing here?

Also, has anybody else had any issues wirelessly charging the tablet? Mine only charges when directly plugged in now. I've restarted, updated the apps, and done everything else I could think of to no avail.
Dolby Vision is type of HDR and Vudu currently has a little over 30 movies with Dolby Vision. Rent Pacific Rim and thank me later
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post #15760 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by quaff2001 View Post
Correct. I literally took the TV out of the box, set up the tablet and wireless and put it on the wall. I haven't felt the need to make any changes yet. It looks so good and that's saying something since I am coming from 65" VT60 plasma.
So you wouldn't be seeing any problems with motion as you've got all the motion enhancements off. You're actually proving my point.
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post #15761 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:56 PM
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I have a question about the tight viewing angle and wall-mounting my P50. I'm coming from a panasonic plasma with an outstanding viewing angle, and I admit I was a little surprised by just how tight the viewing angle is on these VA panels, even though I was prepared for it.

When I directly face the center of the screen, the colors and depth of blacks look great. However, if I'm just a tiny bit off-axis, there's a surprising amount of desaturation, and blooming effects are more pronounced. This happens even from sitting on either end of my sofa, which is directly facing the screen: the half of the screen closer to me will look good, and the other half is noticeably washed out. If I lie down on the couch to watch, I'm in pretty poor shape. Colors are very washed out and blacks are gray.

This is not ideal for me. I also know there's nothing "wrong" with the display. It's just a trade-off that comes with these VA panels. But I'm trying to work with it.

I live in a small NYC apartment, and my living room is unusually narrow (it's only 8 feet wide). My seating distance is 6.5', and I can't really change it when the TV is on its stand. So my question is this: would wall-mounting the TV, thus increasing the seating distance to about 7.5', improve these viewing angle issues in any noticeable way? I don't have any desire to wall-mount otherwise, but I'm willing to do it if it allows me to sit near either end of my couch and still enjoy a good picture.

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post #15762 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by scarylarry View Post
I have a question about the tight viewing angle and wall-mounting my P50. I'm coming from a panasonic plasma with an outstanding viewing angle, and I admit I was a little surprised by just how tight the viewing angle is on these VA panels, even though I was prepared for it.

When you directly face the screen, it colors and depth of blacks look great. However, if I'm just a tiny bit off-axis, there's a surprising amount of desaturation, and blooming effects are more pronounced. This happens even from sitting on either end of my sofa, which is directly facing the screen: the half of the screen closer to me will look good, and the other half is noticeably washed out. If I lie down on the couch to watch, I'm in pretty poor shape. Colors are very washed out and blacks are gray.

This is not ideal for me. I also know there's nothing "wrong" with the display. It's just a trade-off that comes with these VA panels. But I'm trying to work with it.

I live in a small NYC apartment, and my living room is unusually narrow (it's only 8 feet wide). My seating distance is 6.5', and I can't really change it when the TV is its stand. So my question is this: would wall-mounting the TV, thus increasing the seating distance to about 7.5', improve these viewing angle issues in any noticeable way? I don't have any desire to wall-mount otherwise, but I'm willing to do it if it allows me to sit near either end of my couch and still enjoy a good picture.
I bought this stand for my P75. The best part is that it swivels.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/whalen-f...berID=51395048
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post #15763 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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So you wouldn't be seeing any problems with motion as you've got all the motion enhancements off. You're actually proving my point.
Glad I could help.

Sorry though, I skimmed through a couple of pages of posts (been here since the very beginning) and motion issues with GOT caught my eye since I just watched it. I should have went back a read the posts before replying.
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post #15764 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by scarylarry View Post
I have a question about the tight viewing angle and wall-mounting my P50. I'm coming from a panasonic plasma with an outstanding viewing angle, and I admit I was a little surprised by just how tight the viewing angle is on these VA panels, even though I was prepared for it.

When I directly face the center of the screen, the colors and depth of blacks look great. However, if I'm just a tiny bit off-axis, there's a surprising amount of desaturation, and blooming effects are more pronounced. This happens even from sitting on either end of my sofa, which is directly facing the screen: the half of the screen closer to me will look good, and the other half is noticeably washed out. If I lie down on the couch to watch, I'm in pretty poor shape. Colors are very washed out and blacks are gray.

This is not ideal for me. I also know there's nothing "wrong" with the display. It's just a trade-off that comes with these VA panels. But I'm trying to work with it.

I live in a small NYC apartment, and my living room is unusually narrow (it's only 8 feet wide). My seating distance is 6.5', and I can't really change it when the TV is on its stand. So my question is this: would wall-mounting the TV, thus increasing the seating distance to about 7.5', improve these viewing angle issues in any noticeable way? I don't have any desire to wall-mount otherwise, but I'm willing to do it if it allows me to sit near either end of my couch and still enjoy a good picture.
It could make a difference, but before you make the decision to mount the TV, can you just go stand or sit on something that is 7.5' away to test it? It may not be worth the hassle.
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post #15765 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:04 PM
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No one knows everything that GLL turns off except for maybe( @Matt McRae ). However, I can tell you that it does not turn off the processing for the sharpness and Noise Reduction settings but it does turn off all processing for the Reduce Judder, Reduce Motion Blur, and the Film Mode settings. It may turn off more processing but I was not able to determine anything else that it turns off.

The Reduce Judder control will introduce unnatural motion for 24 FPS material. That unnatural motion sometimes called the soap opera effect may or may not be pleasing to the user. However, if you want the most accurate motion for 24 FPS film then you would want to turn all of the motion interpolation settings to zero and also use the Film Mode set to Auto.

I actually turn on GLL even for HDR material but I am not suggesting that anyone else do that at the moment. I am not sure if turning on GLL for HDR content also defeats any of the HDR features yet. Therefore, I just recommend keeping the Reduce Judder and Reduce Motion Blur set to zero for HDR content at the moment.

However, for all other content I turn on GLL. That includes regular Satellite TV programs, non HDR movies, PS4 Games, and computer games. That will disable the Film Mode settings so some people may choose not to do that. However, I haven’t seen any benefit from that setting with the 240 Hz Vizio TVs I have owned so I don’t mind turning it off on those TVs.
May be a 120Hz peculiarity but with GLL on I can't change noise reduction settings. This is with HTPC @ 1080p120.
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post #15766 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:08 PM
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Dolby Vision is type of HDR and Vudu currently has a little over 30 movies with Dolby Vision. Rent Pacific Rim and thank me later
They have 35 of them at the moment. As of right now there are 3 movies with Dolby Vision HDR versions and UHD HDR10 Blu ray versions. Those movies are Mad Max, Into the Heart of the Sea, and Point Break. I have all three of those in both versions and I will compare and contrast them tonight.

When you play an HDR10 UHD Blu ray with the P-series and the Samsung K8500 UHD blu ray player right now the player will convert the movie to the REC.709 color standard and it will not automatically take control of the settings. This can cause the chroma and banding issues that I have mentioned in the past.
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post #15767 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:11 PM
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May be a 120Hz peculiarity but with GLL on I can't change noise reduction settings. This is with HTPC @ 1080p120.
Good catch. Although I think HDMI 5 is what actually eliminates one or perhaps both of the noise reduction settings and not just the [email protected] FPS. I haven't tested that specific scenario on the P75 yet though. The M80 I had worked that way. Maybe the P75 is different. I will confirm exactly what 1080p @ 120 FPS eliminates tonight.
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post #15768 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
No one knows everything that GLL turns off except for maybe( @Matt McRae ). However, I can tell you that it does not turn off the processing for the sharpness and Noise Reduction settings but it does turn off all processing for the Reduce Judder, Reduce Motion Blur, and the Film Mode settings. It may turn off more processing but I was not able to determine anything else that it turns off.

The Reduce Judder control will introduce unnatural motion for 24 FPS material. That unnatural motion sometimes called the soap opera effect may or may not be pleasing to the user. However, if you want the most accurate motion for 24 FPS film then you would want to turn all of the motion interpolation settings to zero and also use the Film Mode set to Auto.

I actually turn on GLL even for HDR material but I am not suggesting that anyone else do that at the moment. I am not sure if turning on GLL for HDR content also defeats any of the HDR features yet. Therefore, I just recommend keeping the Reduce Judder and Reduce Motion Blur set to zero for HDR content at the moment.

However, for all other content I turn on GLL. That includes regular Satellite TV programs, non HDR movies, PS4 Games, and computer games. That will disable the Film Mode settings so some people may choose not to do that. However, I haven’t seen any benefit from that setting with the 240 Hz Vizio TVs I have owned so I don’t mind turning it off on those TVs.
Thanks everyone for the replies. I plan to turn on GLL and turn off the reduce motion blur (which I understand GLL will do anyway) but I'm kind of wondering about the Reduce Judder control for UHD / Blu ray @ 24 FPS. Admittedly I haven't read the entirety of this thread but I have read a lot of it. There seem to be some differing opinions. I did notice that there was too much soap opera effect when RJ was set too high. But with it off the vertical panning of that scene I mentioned in Sicario was quite jarring and just seemed waaay too jumpy. Admittedly it was an extreme example of judder and you don't see that kind of pan that often. I've heard a setting of 1 was correct, I've heard 3, I know that it also is a matter of personal taste. I'm quite a fan of viewing things how the director intended so I wonder how much of that jumpiness was intended (if any). Do the special members and experts here have a consensus on what the reduce judder setting should be? Does 1 or 3 set right with most folks. Sounds like 5 is too high but wondering how much of the jumpiness in that vertical pan I'm supposed to get rid of if that makes sense?
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post #15769 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:27 PM
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It could make a difference, but before you make the decision to mount the TV, can you just go stand or sit on something that is 7.5' away to test it? It may not be worth the hassle.
Thanks for the suggestion! It'll be an oddly difficult thing to test, because the room is so narrow. But I guess I could temporarily arrange the furniture lengthwise (not a long-term option, because it's a walk-through room) and test it from 7.5'. I don't know how much of a difference it will make, but at least this is a less permanent way to try it out.
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post #15770 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:35 PM
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The new sound bar is 3"H. When I measure that against my P55, it actually just barely covers the very bottom of the screen (just beyond the bezel). Perhaps Matt McRae can comment on this as well as general placement issues that may arise between the new soundbars and the P series?

EDIT: Oops, I was looking at the wrong specs. It looks like it will fit.
The sound bars are stated to be 2" high here.

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post #15771 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomaay View Post
Thanks everyone for the replies. I plan to turn on GLL and turn off the reduce motion blur (which I understand GLL will do anyway) but I'm kind of wondering about the Reduce Judder control for UHD / Blu ray @ 24 FPS. Admittedly I haven't read the entirety of this thread but I have read a lot of it. There seem to be some differing opinions. I did notice that there was too much soap opera effect when RJ was set too high. But with it off the vertical panning of that scene I mentioned in Sicario was quite jarring and just seemed waaay too jumpy. Admittedly it was an extreme example of judder and you don't see that kind of pan that often. I've heard a setting of 1 was correct, I've heard 3, I know that it also is a matter of personal taste. I'm quite a fan of viewing things how the director intended so I wonder how much of that jumpiness was intended (if any). Do the special members and experts here have a consensus on what the reduce judder setting should be? Does 1 or 3 set right with most folks. Sounds like 5 is too high but wondering how much of the jumpiness in that vertical pan I'm supposed to get rid of if that makes sense?
24 FPS video should be jumpy and have what is referred to as Judder. 24 FPS simply isn’t a fast enough frame rate to display real world motion. However, it is what we are stuck with because that is always how movies have been done.

Accurate is using Film Mode = Auto with Reduce Judder set to zero. According to Matt that will simply double the frame rate to 48 FPS and then the display is capable of displaying at a native 48 fps. That will give you the most accurate motion according to what was filmed.

However, a lot of people have come to realize that 24 FPS motion just doesn’t look good. It may be how the director intended it but it looks terrible in fly overs. It would be much better if it was 60 FPS content instead.

It isn’t though so we are forced to use the motion interpolation controls to attempt to change the native cadence of the film material. That can produce additional issues so there isn’t really a great solution at the moment.

You just have to choose accurate or processed at the moment. There is no way around it. I have used as much as 3 before but I have it set to zero at the moment for movies because I thought the lip synch issues I was having were a bigger issue.
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post #15772 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:42 PM
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From reading sounds like I might have to turn off the reduce motion blur that other posters had said I needed on all the time on everything. Other posts seem to say to turn on GLL. What does GLL turn off specifically?
Click here for what GLL does.

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post #15773 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:43 PM
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I hope we get the HDR10 update soon. Dawn of Justice will be out on July 16, 2016. (according to amazon)
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Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help


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post #15774 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
24 FPS video should be jumpy and have what is referred to as Judder. 24 FPS simply isn’t a fast enough frame rate to display real world motion. However, it is what we are stuck with because that is always how movies have been done.

Accurate is using Film Mode = Auto with Reduce Judder set to zero. According to Matt that will simply double the frame rate to 48 FPS and then the display is capable of displaying at a native 48 fps. That will give you the most accurate motion according to what was filmed.

However, a lot of people have come to realize that 24 FPS motion just doesn’t look good. It may be how the director intended it but it looks terrible in fly overs. It would be much better if it was 60 FPS content instead.

It isn’t though so we are forced to use the motion interpolation controls to attempt to change the native cadence of the film material. That can produce additional issues so there isn’t really a great solution at the moment.

You just have to choose accurate or processed at the moment. There is no way around it. I have used as much as 3 before but I have it set to zero at the moment for movies because I thought the lip synch issues I was having were a bigger issue.
Thanks. This is very helpful.
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post #15775 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Stonedgimp View Post
Has anyone heard from Matt lately regarding the hdr10 updates?
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Originally Posted by Contuzzi View Post
Yeah, we need an update. I'm getting worried.
The first reported P-Series set was reported when this thread was started. That was 03-25-2016, at 05:56 AM. That was 75 days ago. The estimate was originally 90-120 days from introduction. Why do you guys need reassurance?

Click here for Matt's last confirmation.

That was two weeks ago.
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post #15776 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 02:07 PM
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Question for those with the harmony hub. Does it turn on all devices via wifi or via IR? All of my devices can be turned on via wifi; however, i'm doubtful this is the mechanism that the harmony hub will use. If it did, that would be perfect.
The Harmony Hub uses IR, but the blaster seems to be pretty good since it sits next to stereo equipment in my cabinet and still always turns on everything like it should. The Harmony One it replaced, always seemed to miss an item here or there. The remote though uses wifi to talk to the Harmony hub, if you get the Harmony Elite.
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post #15777 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 02:13 PM
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From reading sounds like I might have to turn off the reduce motion blur that other posters had said I needed on all the time on everything. Other posts seem to say to turn on GLL. What does GLL turn off specifically? The Reduce Judder setting made a huge difference for me in watching Sicario UHD Blu ray from Samsung 8500 player. When they do the border crossing scene on the way back out from Mexico near the beginning, the camera shows an overhead shot panning vertically up the stopped cars in the crossing. This scene makes it very easy to see how the reduce judder setting affects the PQ. For me a setting of 5 seemed good. What do you think?
Reduce judder at 5 or more gives lifelike polished look especially since my hopper 3 is 1080i. 1080p and up is spectacular on this set! The image source plays a huge role. Streaming is the best pq for me. I'm thinking of getting darbee dvp to see if there is any improvement. Sicaro is an awesome movie!

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post #15778 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
The first reported P-Series set was reported when this thread was stated. That was 03-25-2016, at 05:56 AM. That was 75 days ago. The estimate was originally 90-120 days from introduction. Why do you guys need reassurance?

Click here for Matt's last confirmation.

That was two weeks ago.
Ooops. sorry, I did not back track in the thread to see others had recently mentioned HDR10. I just saw when Dawn of Justice was coming out and wanted to express my want for HDR10


Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help


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post #15779 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 02:16 PM
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Yeah, we need an update. I'm getting worried.


Oh, please...
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post #15780 of 64315 Old 06-07-2016, 02:19 PM
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When I directly face the center of the screen, the colors and depth of blacks look great. However, if I'm just a tiny bit off-axis, there's a surprising amount of desaturation, and blooming effects are more pronounced. This happens even from sitting on either end of my sofa, which is directly facing the screen: the half of the screen closer to me will look good, and the other half is noticeably washed out. If I lie down on the couch to watch, I'm in pretty poor shape. Colors are very washed out and blacks are gray.




How about a P55 with IPS panel. You really sound like a candidate for that tech.
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