Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 836 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25051 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eugene22n View Post
Might be worth a try to replicate my setup. I figured I would use HDMI 4 as its marked "best".

Just double checked it by popping my Mad Max disc in.

BTW, I got the "split screen issue" this time. If you ever get that toggling through the picture modes makes it go away from me. I assume this is a Vizio Firmware issue.
It is just saying HDMI is the best connection.....it just happens to be by HDMI 4.

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post #25052 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:10 PM
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I believe SD content has improved. Cable looks clearer than before to me.

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post #25053 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bcabes View Post
Just wanted to add that I am using ARC with my Denon x3200 without issue.

Interesting. I should have clarified. It sporadically works. I'll get a DD+ atmos message on the Denon front panel, then it flickers off and sound drops. Then it comes back about 5 - 10 secs later. Yes, I have BlueJeans Premium HDMI Cables. Have also tried numerous other brands. I'll send some PMs, I'd like to know your setups.
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post #25054 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by brehiser View Post
I literally did everything exactly the same except when i turn on subsampling for hdmi 1 vizio instantly throws up the no signal error. No matter what i try, subsampling causes the no signal error when resolution is set to 4k.
Have you tried switching to a different input, and back?
Maybe a different cable?
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post #25055 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bobkat007 View Post
I guess I can just call Vizio and have another sent. But my gut tells me that it will also eventually fail.
Everything will eventually fail, even your gut.

If all the rechargers were failing this thread would be twice it's current size.

Get it replaced by Vizio.

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post #25056 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
We have re-tested the P65 with the new firmware update (2.0.13.13). The review will be updated shortly, but in the meantime I’ve included the ‘raw’ results below...

Let me know if you find anything we’ve missed, or if we've made a mistake somewhere.
Thanks Daniel. It's nice to see Rtings continued tests.
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post #25057 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:32 PM
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Ive switched inputs, but not all the cables. I have all quality high speed cables, and since everything else works without subsampling on, i cant imagine the cables are the issue. This is definitely frustrating
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post #25058 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by brehiser View Post
Ive switched inputs, but not all the cables. I have all quality high speed cables, and since everything else works without subsampling on, i cant imagine the cables are the issue. This is definitely frustrating
To clarify, I meant when the "No Signal" box pops up, switch to a different source, then back to the XB1S, to see if you get a handshake.
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post #25059 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by brehiser View Post
Ive switched inputs, but not all the cables. I have all quality high speed cables, and since everything else works without subsampling on, i cant imagine the cables are the issue. This is definitely frustrating
You tried the MS supplied HDR cable directly into the P series from XB? Cabling is critical.
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post #25060 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
We have re-tested the P65 with the new firmware update (2.0.13.13). The review will be updated shortly, but in the meantime I’ve included the ‘raw’ results below.

HDR10:
As expected, there is added support for HDR10 in HDMI1 – 4. HDMI 5 does not support HDR10.

Peak brightness:
We test this with various window sizes, sending an HDR10 signal. Local dimming is enabled for this test. Previously published results (before the update and using Dolby Vision) are included in brackets.
2% peak: 317 nits (312)
2% sustained: 317 nits (312)
10% peak: 440 nits (437)
10% sustained: 440 nits (437)
25% peak: 491 nits (490)
25% sustained: 491 nits (490)
50% peak: 522 nits (530)
50% sustained: 522 nits (530)
100% peak: 535 nits (546)
100% sustained: 535 nits (546)

The peak brightness is almost exactly the same before and after the update.

Input lag:
We tested the input lag using the Leo Bodnar tool. This was done at 1080p @ 60Hz. For HDMI 1-4 we also used the HDFury Integral to inject HDR metadata to see if this had any impact on the input lag when in a HDR picture mode. We compared with and without the integral, and found it did not any additional time to our input lag measurements (<0.1ms). There has also been some discussion about whether Active LED adds input lag, so we tested for this also.
HDMI 1, 1080p @ 60Hz HDR10
Active LED on, Game low latency off: 157.2ms
Active LED off, Game low latency off: 154.5ms
Active LED on, Game low latency on: 65.2ms
Active LED off, Game low latency on: 62.1ms
HDMI 1, 1080p @ 60Hz SDR
Active LED on, Game low latency off: 113.0ms
Active LED off, Game low latency off: 112.4ms
Active LED on, Game low latency on: 38.0ms
Active LED off, Game low latency on: 37.2ms
HDMI 5, 1080p @ 60Hz SDR
Active LED on, Game low latency off: 94.6ms
Active LED off, Game low latency off: 94.3ms
Active LED on, Game low latency on: 19.7ms
Active LED off, Game low latency on: 19.1ms

In our experience, sending an HDR signal did increase the input lag (by 25 to 45ms) but it's still okay for most people. We haven't tested other TV's input lag with HDR so can't compare it. Active LED also increases the input lag, but this isn't noticeable.

Color gamut:
We measured the color gamut sending a 4k @ 60 Hz @ HDR signal. Previously published results (before the update and using Dolby Vision) are included in brackets. An image of the gamut is attached below.
DCI P3 xy: 82.53 % (81.49 %)
DCI P3 uv: 90.12 % (88.69 %)
Rec 2020 xy: 61.72 % (60.92 %)
Rec 2020 uv: 69.21 % (68.55 %)

This is basically the same wide color gamut as before the update (under 5% difference is considered not noticeable).

Chroma 4:4:4:
We tested for chroma 4:4:4 at a range of resolutions and refresh rates. To send 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 on HDMI 1-4 enable HDMI Color Subsampling. Only 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:2:0 is supported on HDMI 5. We took a macro image of the pixels to more accurately compare to a TV which displays 4:4:4. Images for the following are attached below.
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 1 (HDMI color subsampling necessary)4k @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 1
4k @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 5
1080p @ 120Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 1
1080p @ 120Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 5
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 1
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 5
1080p @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 1
1080p @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4 – HDMI 5

We don't consider any of these 4:4:4 images a pass.

Let me know if you find anything we’ve missed, or if we've made a mistake somewhere.
When HDR games become available next month, you are figuring around 65-75ms Inout Lag while playing HDR Xbox One S? That will make this P65 unplayable for competitive gamers.

Also, so the KS8000 with clear 4:4:[email protected] 60hz is the way to go for competive gamers compared to the P65?

I'm a Competitve gamer and play Halo 5 HCS, and currently Rainbow Six Siege. I own the P65-C1 and a Benq RL2755HM.. The P65 with GLL and Clear Action On, And Active Led On Input Lag has been fine so far, Zero complaints.. Hopefully next month with HDR Games Matt McRae and the Vizio Team and figure out how to keep the Input Lag the same when HDR games come out, and eliminate unessesary processing from the set. Because 75m Input Lag Is Virtually Unplayable.
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post #25061 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesmil View Post
Okay, I re-tested this today to make absolutely sure. I can't account for rtings findings, but I am plugged into HDMI 4 and my settings page says GLL is off (I toggled it on then off again to be sure, and the on screen display said "Game Low Latency Off"), and I tested again and got 33.7 (see attached for a screenshot of my settings, and a picture of the test)... I also have other settings off (Clear Action, Reduce Judder, etc) perhaps one of those affected Rtings findings?
I've just tested our set (P65) again now and got a value of ~109ms on HDMI 4. I copied your settings from the screenshot. Which size do you have?
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post #25062 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by R8DR View Post
When HDR games become available next month, you are figuring around 65-75ms Inout Lag while playing HDR Xbox One S? That will make this P65 unplayable for competitive gamers.

Also, so the KS8000 with clear 4:4:[email protected] 60hz is the way to go for competive gamers compared to the P65?

I'm a Competitve gamer and play Halo 5 HCS, and currently Rainbow Six Siege. I own the P65-C1 and a Benq RL2755HM.. The P65 with GLL and Clear Action On, And Active Led On Input Lag has been fine so far, Zero complaints.. Hopefully next month with HDR Games Matt McRae and the Vizio Team and figure out how to keep the Input Lag the same when HDR games come out, and eliminate unessesary processing from the set. Because 75m Input Lag Is Virtually Unplayable.
Speculation at this point regarding input lag w HDR.
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post #25063 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by zer0cool2007 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by brehiser View Post
Ive switched inputs, but not all the cables. I have all quality high speed cables, and since everything else works without subsampling on, i cant imagine the cables are the issue. This is definitely frustrating
To clarify, I meant when the "No Signal" box pops up, switch to a different source, then back to the XB1S, to see if you get a handshake.
Yeah ive tried that too. Doesnt make a difference. Ill sometimes get intermittent audio, but no video
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post #25064 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by b_rad4 View Post
I can see it though with FALD on. loading screens etc.
It's faint but I can see it.
From a miserable 49er fan to a Rams fan in Ontario of all places: Loading screens shouldn't be thought of as normal sources for evaluating picture quality. Think of what it's going to do to the dogs if they have to take your new display all the way back to Vancouver.

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post #25065 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:03 PM
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Official Vizio 2016 P Series Owners Thread (UHD/HDR/DV) No Price Talk Please

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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
From a miserable 49er fan to a Rams fan in Ontario of all places: Loading screens shouldn't be thought of as normal sources for evaluating picture quality. Think of what it's going to do to the dogs if they have to take your new display all the way back to Vancouver.


Yeah I know, but if other people aren't seeing it and it is only an issue on my set, than that is worth looking into an exchange. Sure, to get it to show up in pictures I need it ALED off, but irl it's there with it on, those same blotches except fainter.

rtings said themselves it is worse than theirs.
I have not heard 1 person mention being able to see any sort of back light bleed with Active LED on, but I can.

Tried searching but cannot find any pics of others and their P65s with active Led off.

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post #25066 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Karnis2 View Post
Trust me, right when you think you've got it licked & it works for days in a row, it will fail at the worst time. Been there, done that. WAF stink eye. When it happens, open the Vizio app and toggle CEC enabled/disabled, make sure your AVR is listed. Do your power down/up sequence again, and remember...it WILL start working again....probably right after she leaves the room.
Your observations about ARC and life nail it!
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post #25067 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by b_rad4 View Post
Yeah I know, but if other people aren't seeing it and it is only an issue on my set, than that is worth looking into an exchange. Sure, to get it to show up in pictures I need it ALED off, but irl it's there with it on, those same blotches except fainter.

rtings said themselves it is worse than theirs.
I have not heard 1 person mention being able to see any sort of back light bleed with Active LED on, but I can.

Tried searching but cannot find any pics of others and their P65s with active Led off.
When I am in a pitch black room in the basement I can tell that the backlight is still on but it is faint with HDR sources.....pretty much any ambient light kills it. It is almost non existent with SDR sources.

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post #25068 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:20 PM
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Daniel, is 4:4:4 a big deal when the Xbox Scorpio comes out? I know 75ms Input Lag would be on the P65
Xbox won't use 4:4:4 chroma. It's also been noted multiple times in this thread that 4:4:4 is only for people who are reading text from a computer less than 4 ft away from the display.
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post #25069 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:23 PM
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Speculation at this point regarding input lag w HDR.
How is it speculation with results posted above already?
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post #25070 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
When I am in a pitch black room in the basement I can tell that the backlight is still on but it is faint with HDR sources.....pretty much any ambient light kills it. It is almost non existent with SDR sources.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


It's not the ambient light that's bothering me, it's the splotches of slight back light bleed in certain areas I can see. It's not even. It's like the FALD off pick except toned way down.

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post #25071 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:26 PM
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How is it speculation with results posted above already?
I doubt the games Forza/gears of war will be true HDR. Reason being the xB Scorpio is the 4k unit coming out next fall/Xmas. xB could barely handle 1080p w out struggling

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post #25072 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:27 PM
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I doubt the games Forza/gears of war will be true HDR. Reason being the xB Scorpio is the 4k unit coming out next fall/Xmas. xB could barely handle 1080p w out struggling

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This doesn't change input lag. At all.
If there is metadata being sent to add to the tvs processing then the lag will be added. How fast the xbox is doesn't change input lag.
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post #25073 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by R8DR View Post
When HDR games become available next month, you are figuring around 65-75ms Inout Lag while playing HDR Xbox One S? That will make this P65 unplayable for competitive gamers.

Also, so the KS8000 with clear 4:4:[email protected] 60hz is the way to go for competive gamers compared to the P65?

I'm a Competitve gamer and play Halo 5 HCS, and currently Rainbow Six Siege. I own the P65-C1 and a Benq RL2755HM.. The P65 with GLL and Clear Action On, And Active Led On Input Lag has been fine so far, Zero complaints.. Hopefully next month with HDR Games Matt McRae and the Vizio Team and figure out how to keep the Input Lag the same when HDR games come out, and eliminate unessesary processing from the set. Because 75m Input Lag Is Virtually Unplayable.
There would likely be no way to make HDR and SDR input lag the same. Being HDR is adding extra processing into decoding meta data. Could they eventually lower lag? Possibly but unlikely i will ever the be the same.
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post #25074 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:34 PM
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Personally, I think I have got semi-acceptable 4:4:4 (at 4k/30, my video card doesn't do 4k/60) by turning down the "color" setting somewhat. Likely this means that certain video processing is mucking with a correctly received 4:4:4 signal.

Also, do realize that under hdmi 2.0 specs, 4:4:4/60 at 10bits (required for hdr) is out of spec bandwidth wise. So any HDR devices would be using 4:2:0.
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post #25075 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:34 PM
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Official Vizio 2016 P Series Owners Thread (UHD/HDR/DV) No Price Talk Please


Here is another issue I just found while gaming. The edges of the screen are a completely different tint than the centre.

I tested on my plasma to confirm it isn't the game itself.

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post #25076 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
How is it speculation with results posted above already?
He didn't test it with HDR games.

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post #25077 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:36 PM
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Tried searching but cannot find any pics of others and their P65s with active Led off.
There are many posts about test screens with active LED off, and others telling the poster that it doesn't make sense to test that way. I don't recall how many of those posts included pictures, but I'll bet some of them did.
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19-34ms Input Lag is one thing playing Xbox in 4K. But I plan on purchasing the Scorpio to play games [email protected] HDR Twitchy games like Halo and Call of Duty. Games like those will be unplayable if meta data processing is added to get the Full Use Of the P65-C1 if input lag then is 75ms.. Ratings stated HDR Games will add 25ms-45ms to Current 34ms 4K (standard no HDR) gaming. That would mean the P65-C1 is not the Tv of choice for Console Gamers
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post #25079 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by shortyg83 View Post
This doesn't change input lag. At all.
If there is metadata being sent to add to the tvs processing then the lag will be added. How fast the xbox is doesn't change input lag.
But it still affects gameplay.

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post #25080 of 64337 Old 08-04-2016, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
He didn't test it with HDR games.
Don't they use the same metadata as everything else meaning they would still add the same lag?
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