Official Vizio 2016/2017 P Series Owners ONLY Thread UHD/HDR/DV No Price Talk Please - Page 956 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28651 of 64273 Old 09-11-2016, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Collinms View Post
The potential HDR gaming input lag is also a concern for me. I bought the p65 for gaming. Ps4 pro will be here soon. I'd like to be assured I made the right choice.
That was one of the reasons I returned my P65. It wasn't the only reason but it did contribute to it. Biggest issue was the gray uniformity was something I found too distracting when it came to everything. I switched it to a Samsung 65 KS8000. I wasn't sure if the input lag is something Vizio could fix with a patch or if the hardware was a limiting factor. So I quickly made the switch while I was still in my return window.
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post #28652 of 64273 Old 09-11-2016, 09:31 PM
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It will take at least an other year for display manufacturers to catch up with fast enough SOCs in their displays to handle HDR gaming with the low latency that people want, so for now if gamers want the lower lag time they will just have to live without HDR.

It actually appears Samsung has pulled that feat off this year with the current sets being mid 20's for milliseconds. Though we've yet to see if there is a quality drop. But Samsung appears like they'll be the exception instead of the rule this year.

I'm pretty surprised how quickly HDR gaming seems to be hitting the market this year. I think it's great news for HDR lovers as it will just further widen the appeal of HDR sets which means more HDR content.

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post #28653 of 64273 Old 09-11-2016, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tazzarias View Post
Watching the BMW Championship (Golf), I see it from time to time when there is a lot of grass in the picture, and it seems to drive FALD a bit nutty especially on very slow pans.

Same with soccer, seems slow pans on green fields really does it. Turning off FALD eliminates it.
what channel was it on? i dont think its fald. i see the same thing on a lot of football games and i cant quite figure it out. i notice it a lot on day games and on certain channels. ive tried playing aorund with all the clear action/gll/fald stuff but nothing seems to help. games on espn and fox are the biggest culprit, while cbs and nbc look great. ive heard rumors that fox and espn/abc broadcast all their games in 720p. so, this morning the packers/jaguars (fox) looked awful, then seahawks/dolphins (cbs) looked good and the patriots/cardinals was beautiful. i think its hte upscaling struggling with the intgricaties of the large fan sections with all the colors and the contrast between the grass and player.
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post #28654 of 64273 Old 09-11-2016, 09:48 PM
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what channel was it on? i dont think its fald. i see the same thing on a lot of football games and i cant quite figure it out. i notice it a lot on day games and on certain channels. ive tried playing aorund with all the clear action/gll/fald stuff but nothing seems to help. games on espn and fox are the biggest culprit, while cbs and nbc look great. ive heard rumors that fox and espn/abc broadcast all their games in 720p. so, this morning the packers/jaguars (fox) looked awful, then seahawks/dolphins (cbs) looked good and the patriots/cardinals was beautiful. i think its hte upscaling struggling with the intgricaties of the large fan sections with all the colors and the contrast between the grass and player.
The BMW Championship was on NBC at 1080i. Pretty sure it's FALD, as when I disabled FALD, I no longer saw the issue. Issue returned if I turned FALD back on. Seems to really stand out on live TV when the camera pans back and forth fairly slowly, but not covering a lot of ground when it does so, kinda like when the cameraman is following live action and trying to keep the action centered.
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post #28655 of 64273 Old 09-11-2016, 09:50 PM
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It does work extremely well for gaming. I don't believe HDR gaming even existed when this TV hit the market.
It works wonderfully for my PS3 and 360! But anybody who's interested in gaming knew 2016/2017 would have 4K HDR gaming. If it turns out this TV can't handle HDR gaming I'll likely just get a regular PS4 and save a couple bucks. I don't game a lot but I do enjoy it when I have the extra time and was looking forward to the prospect of HDR games.


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post #28656 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 12:01 AM
 
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Even for 600$ I returned my P55. Just doesn't hold a candle to my plasma's. I'll probably just drop the coin on a Sammy 8000 for gaming purpose only.
My god if you were disappointed with the P55 for $600, you'll be really disappointed with the Samsung for over twice as much.
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post #28657 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 12:21 AM
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My god if you were disappointed with the P55 for $600, you'll be really disappointed with the Samsung for over twice as much.
Quoting for effect.
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post #28658 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 12:23 AM
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what channel was it on? while cbs and nbc look great. fox and espn/abc broadcast all their games in 720p. so, this morning the packers/jaguars (fox) looked awful, then seahawks/dolphins (cbs) looked good and the patriots/cardinals was beautiful. i think its the upscaling struggling with the intricacies of the large fan sections with all the colors and the contrast between the grass and player.
I watched some NCAA Fotball on espn lastnight and i swear the color just wasnt right. I watched tonights NFL game on NBC and it looked perfect
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post #28659 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 05:35 AM
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It works wonderfully for my PS3 and 360! But anybody who's interested in gaming knew 2016/2017 would have 4K HDR gaming. If it turns out this TV can't handle HDR gaming I'll likely just get a regular PS4 and save a couple bucks. I don't game a lot but I do enjoy it when I have the extra time and was looking forward to the prospect of HDR games.

-Vader
It can do HDR gaming via HDMI 1-4, but the lag is unknown and it's pointless to speculate until HDR gaming is launched.
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post #28660 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pwishart View Post
When Vizio was designing this model of the P series, somewhere back in 2014 to 2015, HDR for gaming did not exist and was not planned for in current LCD displays. It will take at least an other year for display manufacturers to catch up with fast enough SOCs in their displays to handle HDR gaming with the low latency that people want, so for now if gamers want the lower lag time they will just have to live without HDR.
samsung 8000 and 9000 series do it at 21 with HDR. can't be beat. need to say vizio can't do it, not all manufactures.
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post #28661 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 06:52 AM
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I watched some NCAA Fotball on espn lastnight and i swear the color just wasnt right. I watched tonights NFL game on NBC and it looked perfect
yea same experience on college for me too - i get the "tiling" (for lack of a better word) really bad on espn ncaaf games. it would be nice if there was a way to disable upscaling - yea the picture wouldnt look as good but we wouldnt have the flickering. i think the signal coming from espn and fox is so horrible that the tv can't manage the upscaling with all the panning/player movement of football. i saw it a bit during hte nba finals as well (tnt - which is anothe abc channel i think). disney needs to get it together.
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post #28662 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tazzarias View Post
The BMW Championship was on NBC at 1080i. Pretty sure it's FALD, as when I disabled FALD, I no longer saw the issue. Issue returned if I turned FALD back on. Seems to really stand out on live TV when the camera pans back and forth fairly slowly, but not covering a lot of ground when it does so, kinda like when the cameraman is following live action and trying to keep the action centered.
hmm must be a different issue - i was disabling/enabling fald yesterday during football and didnt see any difference in PQ. wonder how much it matters for daytime sports?
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post #28663 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 07:20 AM
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Okay, so I have to say that the flcikering to black while casting Netflix has appeared to have stopped. *knock on wood*

However, I do believe I am experiencing the same issue as some others reported where there is some rapid flickering when a scene is transitioning. Most notably with quick changes from dark to light scenes (and vice versa). Going to keep looking out for that. Yesterday morning I also had an issue where my Xbox One would keep getting a black screen for a while and then come back. That really worried me but last night I played for a long time and that never happened. I wonder if it really is just the TV needing to warm up and get adjusted as someone suggested (sorry can't remember your username.)

Otherwise I am very happy with the TV. Everything is working pretty well. I like the tablet a lot and don't have an issue with no on screen menu or smart TV interface. My only wish is that there was some way for Canadians to experience the amazingness that is some of the UHD movies on VUDU.
The "flickering" you see in transitions from dark to light is simply how FALD works as it adjusts to the image. This will never go away 100% and there are instances were it is worst and sometimes you can go days without seeing it. It's the limitations of the tech, no way around it.

And it seems Vudu is never coming to canada so who knows which provider will pick up this ball...
Untill youtube can do HDR all we have is the measly selection on Netflix or UHD disks but those are not dolby vision so yeah, it really sucks
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post #28664 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 07:39 AM
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The "flickering" you see in transitions from dark to light is simply how FALD works as it adjusts to the image.
I'm seeing it a lot on the P50 with 24Hz content (Netflix) with dark scenes like Marvel's Daredevil, and surprised more people don't mention it. It was distracting me so much I set up a custom WOW-calibrated setting without FALD for watching Netflix. The PQ looks just as good, but lacks those wonderful deep inky black levels.

I guess some people are more sensitive to it than others. I wish the backlight zones were either better in sync with the LCDs, or at least had a couple millisecond fade instead of the cutting on and off. I don't know if the latter would be better or worse than the flicker, but it's jarring as is.
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post #28665 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 08:28 AM
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I'm seeing it a lot on the P50 with 24Hz content (Netflix) with dark scenes like Marvel's Daredevil, and surprised more people don't mention it. It was distracting me so much I set up a custom WOW-calibrated setting without FALD for watching Netflix. The PQ looks just as good, but lacks those wonderful deep inky black levels.

I guess some people are more sensitive to it than others. I wish the backlight zones were either better in sync with the LCDs, or at least had a couple millisecond fade instead of the cutting on and off. I don't know if the latter would be better or worse than the flicker, but it's jarring as is.
I see it as well on my P50. Sometimes i have to turn off Active LED Zones because it becomes so annoying :/ but that gets rid of the deep blacks and makes me sad. Maybe they can work it out a in a firmware update, so it's not so drastic of a change.
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post #28666 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 08:32 AM
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I see it on my P50 as well, but apparently I'm less sensitive to it. It's never distracted me to the point of needing to turn off FALD. I can say that firmware has improved the issue somewhat compared to when I purchased the set back in April, so perhaps they can tweak it further through firmware.
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post #28667 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 08:50 AM
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I see it on my P50 as well, but apparently I'm less sensitive to it. It's never distracted me to the point of needing to turn off FALD. I can say that firmware has improved the issue somewhat compared to when I purchased the set back in April, so perhaps they can tweak it further through firmware.
Yeah I browsed a lot of the Dardevil and Jessica Jones scenes once I got my P55 and never noticed anything bad about the image or the constant changing.

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post #28668 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 08:50 AM
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samsung 8000 and 9000 series do it at 21 with HDR. can't be beat. need to say vizio can't do it, not all manufactures.
I think that was only tested on 1080 P according to some of the questions on ratings. There is a fear that 4k will add more.

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post #28669 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 08:59 AM
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Apparently the Forza Horizon 3 Demo has been released now, anyone tried it yet?
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post #28670 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:04 AM
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It does. Some guy returned it after 1 day because he hated the tablet is what they told me.
Although it does come with a small remote, and you can use any universal remote or phone to control the tv.

I know some people like simple easy solutions like an included decent remote, but I have not used a Default TV remote since the 90's. This is due to Cable box remotes, Universal Remote, and Smart Remotes / Phones and tables.
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post #28671 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:07 AM
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Apparently the Forza Horizon 3 Demo has been released now, anyone tried it yet?
I don't think it's been released yet. People thought it was supposed to release last night, though. I'm starting to get really worried about HDR10 gaming on this set now. Netflix still doesn't work right and when I turn off the 24hz mode for HDR10 movies I get the same color problem as the Netflix app. This makes me think 60fps HDR10 for gaming isn't working yet. Has Matt updated us at all about this stuff recently?
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post #28672 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
It can do HDR gaming via HDMI 1-4, but the lag is unknown and it's pointless to speculate until HDR gaming is launched.

HDR GLL ALED Input Lag (ms)
1 HDR On On 65.2
1 HDR On Off 62.1
1 HDR Off On 157.2
1 HDR Off Off 154.5
1 SDR On On 38.0
1 SDR On Off 37.2
1 SDR Off On 113.0
1 SDR Off Off 112.4
5 SDR On On 19.7
5 SDR On Off 19.1
5 SDR Off On 94.6
5 SDR Off Off 94.3

As you can see from the Rtings chart of their tested input lag, its going to be roughly around 65.2 ms for HDR with everything on gaming. Or less if you start turning features off.


Also, from my gaming experience on my P55, 30-70 ms range is really not noticeable, nice and snappy controls. At over 100ms, its starting to get slow and noticeable input lag.

So really, unless your are a PRO Gamer, who wants HDR, then there should be no issue.

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post #28673 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:24 AM
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@Matt McRae

I really hate it when people "page" Matt but it has been a long time since he's been here. Everyone is now talking about HDR gaming. I've seen, in several forums, people running with Rtings claim that samsung is better at HDR gaming. This has to be costing Vizio business. I think it behooves Matt, and Vizio, to make a statement about this. Question Rtings (1080 HDR?), or at least say that Vizio is currently looking into how they can improve HDR gaming through an update. But the silence is starting to become concerning to those of us that bought a P series because of Matt's involvement here and for HDR gaming.
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post #28674 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hiredgoon View Post
HDRGLLALEDInput Lag (ms)
1HDROnOn65.2
1HDROnOff62.1
1HDROffOn157.2
1HDROffOff154.5
1SDROnOn38.0
1SDROnOff37.2
1SDROffOn113.0
1SDROffOff112.4
5SDROnOn19.7
5SDROnOff19.1
5SDROffOn94.6
5SDROffOff94.3

As you can see from the Rtings chart of their tested input lag, its going to be roughly around 65.2 ms for HDR with everything on gaming. Or less if you start turning features off.


Also, from my gaming experience on my P55, 30-70 ms range is really not noticeable, nice and snappy controls. At over 100ms, its starting to get slow and noticeable input lag.

So really, unless your are a PRO Gamer, who wants HDR, then there should be no issue.
Well there hasn't been any hdr games out to actually test that theory.

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post #28675 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by thrustbucket View Post

I really hate it when people "page" Matt but it has been a long time since he's been here. Everyone is now talking about HDR gaming. I've seen, in several forums, people running with Rtings claim that samsung is better at HDR gaming. This has to be costing Vizio business. I think it behooves Matt, and Vizio, to make a statement about this. Question Rtings (1080 HDR?), or at least say that Vizio is currently looking into how they can improve HDR gaming through an update. But the silence is starting to become concerning to those of us that bought a P series because of Matt's involvement here and for HDR gaming.
Wait, did you just complain about people paging Matt, then you paged him and called him out to make a statement?
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post #28676 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:41 AM
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Wait, did you just complain about people paging Matt, then you paged him and call him out to make a statement?
Damn straight.

It bothers me whenever anyone has a complaint about something that they page him. It happens on every page. But I've been sitting here for two weeks waiting for him to show up and talk about some of this stuff. I've been wondering why the silence. Then the PS4pro announcement came and it was all about HDR gaming. That's all people are talking about now. Everyone on gaming sites are saying that Samsung is the only way to go for HDR gaming. I still want to believe that Vizio will improve things with an update, or can. I'm really tired of the amount of conjecture on every page of this thread.

So yes, I finally succumbed to my internal pressure and did what I hate people for doing. My self loathing is now full circle.
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post #28677 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 09:51 AM
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Damn straight.

It bothers me whenever anyone has a complaint about something that they page him. It happens on every page. But I've been sitting here for two weeks waiting for him to show up and talk about some of this stuff. I've been wondering why the silence. Then the PS4pro announcement came and it was all about HDR gaming. That's all people are talking about now. Everyone on gaming sites are saying that Samsung is the only way to go for HDR gaming. I still want to believe that Vizio will improve things with an update, or can. I'm really tired of the amount of conjecture on every page of this thread.

So yes, I finally succumbed to my internal pressure and did what I hate people for doing. My self loathing is now full circle.
I think you are right on point with this. This is a major deal to the gaming community. HDR gaming is the future of gaming and it's approaching sooner rather than later. Also, to the people saying stuff like this isn't appropriate to discuss in this forum thread, you guys need to relax and realize that other people have needs other than yours. You don't see me complaining about people getting bad shipments from Canada or people complaining about yellow blobs.
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post #28678 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by steba View Post
Well there hasn't been any hdr games out to actually test that theory.

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Yes, this is true, but why would input lag be significantly different from one HDR to another HDR source?

An educated guess would assume it's going to be around the 60-70ms range with similar settings to:

HDR GLL ALED Input Lag (ms)
1 HDR On On 65.2
1 HDR On Off 62.1


Is 60-70ms range too high for everyone?
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post #28679 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 10:15 AM
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Damn straight.



It bothers me whenever anyone has a complaint about something that they page him. It happens on every page. But I've been sitting here for two weeks waiting for him to show up and talk about some of this stuff. I've been wondering why the silence. Then the PS4pro announcement came and it was all about HDR gaming. That's all people are talking about now. Everyone on gaming sites are saying that Samsung is the only way to go for HDR gaming. I still want to believe that Vizio will improve things with an update, or can. I'm really tired of the amount of conjecture on every page of this thread.



So yes, I finally succumbed to my internal pressure and did what I hate people for doing. My self loathing is now full circle.


Two whole weeks!!! The outrage!!!!

It's been said numerous times that only one site has done HDR lag testing with NO independent verification. That should speak volumes on its own. People have been running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Relax, tests will be done, the 1st content was only released this past Friday. Tests will come and be verified, personally unless there are multiple sources, it's kind of crazy to continue to post the lag numbers for something hardly anyone is currently using.

As far as the silence...lets see, Matt is the CTO of a company, I mean what could he possibly have to do besides post on AVS and answer the same questions over and over again. Even better, act as a single customer representative. Everyone gets worried for nothing, then he posts and we get flooded with questions where people @ him.

The conjecture you are talking about is exactly what you are doing right now when and if Matt has an Update AND has the time to post here, I'm sure he will. Right now HDR gaming is probably not a priority. I would think that functionality bugs and fixes are taking a higher priority. With HDR movies/TV being a priority for the bigger population of owners, I'm sure they want to make sure they get it working as best as possible.

If people are really the concerned they can always sell their Vizio and get a Samsung, of course I hope that the tests were correct and don't end up being worse (quality or higher lag). I wouldn't have any sympathy for those folks




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post #28680 of 64273 Old 09-12-2016, 10:23 AM
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Just to give an update on the situation with my P65-C1:
Long story short, the 3rd replacement (total of 4 displays) was by far the worst out of all the units I had. I have been dealing with Orange to Green color shifts on the left and right edges of the screen. on the last one, it would sometimes shift to pink / magenta.

Some pics of the last unit:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...kpKM0xlZ2w5bEE
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...01yaW9rTi1JS0E
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...VhmeXFsXy1QVkU

Vizio gave me to option to get a refund on the 2nd replacement, I figured I would give one more try since I really like the quality for the money. With the 3rd unit being the worst, I said im done.
I am currently waiting on the freight company that is going to pick it up to call me.

The day I decided I was done, went to best buy and picked up a LG 65 inch OLED B6. 1000% confirmed the color shift issues are with the Vizio unit. (not that I needed that TV to confirm, have a plasma in the house that I have been using to compare with as well) but it was another way to confirm on the same HDMI cables and devices.

Im only bringing this up AGAIN because I want others to pay attention to my situation and make sure you do not have any color shift issues. Out of the 4 Units I have had, 3 of them had panel issues (one just had general electronic issues)

Another note, I was told the first 2 units that were sent to me were "NEW". Never used, or powered on or anything. On the 3rd and final replacement, the tech support rep informed me that they never send new units out to customers, only "re-certified" not to be confused with refurbished. As it was explained to me, the units I was receiving were displays people returned for reasons that had nothing to do with the unit being defective.
So I have been getting "returns" in place of my Brand new TV that had issues. No wonder all of them had issues.

Again, I loved the TV, but could not deal with the panel defects. Everyone, please pay attention to yours, I HIGHLY doubt I got the only 3 panels with the color shift issues. And please do not settle, get a good unit I have a feeling that Vizio knows about the issue and is just hoping no know notices. Side note, every time the delivery people would come to bring me a replacement and take the defective one away, they said " we are constantly swapping out vizio displays for the same issue you are having, all the TV's we see have panel problems"

www.andrepensophoto.com
65 inch LG OLED B6 - Nvidia Shield TV - Samsung UHD Player - PS4 Pro / PSVR -XBOX 1s / Marantz SR6010 - miniDSP - Emotiva a-700 (Powering Front mains, center) -
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2016/2017 vizio p-series - nice pic(k)! / netflix , best value , D7000 , dolby vision , latest firmware - 6.0.18.1 - previous 5.0.16.1 , Vizio , Vudu

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