Official Samsung KS8000/KS8500 Owners Thread - Page 1123 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33661 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
This might sound stupid, but try unpluging your tv from the power outlet for a couple of minutes. Then retry again. I don't know why but usually this fixes errors that should be gone after a firmware update.




I too had this happen to me in the past. It's definitly an firmware issue. It only happens in game mode on Samsung TV's and is quite widespread problem. Not just the KS8000. Just google 'Samsung Color Separation' and you will find enough info on the subject. But so far it hasn't happend yet since the new firmware update.
Yeah, I always clear the cache by unplugging the TV after each firmware, so sadly that's not it. This was the last straw for me. This patch was my last hope, but nothing has changed aside from the HDR auto-switching, which should have been there 2 years ago.
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post #33662 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Manankil View Post
Hi!

Have been honestly been a lurker here for quite sometime, just waiting for updates. Just wanted to say thanks to Rudy and everyone else that have been constantly updating us for the past 2 years especially with the game mode HDR issue haha. Really glad the latest firmware finally fixed it for all of us owners

One question though, I live in the Asia pacific Region (T-JZMUABC TV's) and I see that we still have 1208.2 (released on 2017.11.28) as the latest firmware. Do you guys have any idea how long does it take for the latest update to reach the Asia Pacific/T-JZMUABC sites? I'm really sorry if there have been posts regarding this already (I am trying to find definite answers but we're already at 1122 pages haha)

Thank you again and cheers!!
I'm also waiting for the same FW, even though I'm in Latin America. Based on previous FW, it should be available in about two weeks after the first was released. I hope it comes sooner though.
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post #33663 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TheGameScouts View Post
Because this issues hasn't happened on 1, or 2, or 3, or 4, but 8 different units (diff. sizes too).
Wow, that's awful. This might sound stupid but have you tried buying a new HDMI cable? For instance I couldn't get HDR to work on my PS4 until I got a newer cable.

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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
A few posts back i talked about how i noticed the blu ray Elysium having better pictue quality since the firmware update. I've just checked some HDR movies and i get the impression that the maximum backlight intensity has been seriously increased for HDR content. It's much brighter, and the good thing is that the blacks still look perfectly black.

I just watched a bit of Passengers and Avatar in HDR (without LED Clear Motion and Dynamic Contrast activated). In passengers everything seems much brighter/detailed and more defined. So is Avatar, and when they set the forrest on fire in the big battle at the end, the brightness of the flames almost hurt my eyes. And this is at daytime (2:30 PM) in a bright sunlit room with the curtains open. I don't think the brightness was ever this intense for HDR content before the firmware update.

Anyone else noticed this?
I'd be extremely surprised if they increased the backlight intensity via a firmware update, I doubt that's possible. They could have just refined the way it interprets HDR data but as we never get release notes, who knows?
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post #33664 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 09:15 AM
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I've also noticed the HDR brightness being "boosted"/more intense after this update. You'd have to take some measurements to be absolutely sure, obviously, but I felt that even before it was mentioned here. HDR looks notably brighter to my eyes at least.
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post #33665 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TheGameScouts View Post
.

It's been great sharing horror stories with everyone in this forum, but I'm officially done with Samsung and ready to move on. I wish everyone best of luck, and I hope to see some of you over in the Sony forums in the near future!
Was gonna say a few things to your comments but since you will no longer be here with us, theres no point. Enjoy the Sony forums.
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post #33666 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
As far as black level goes for game consoles i did some tests and these are my results.
[...]
Note: At first i thought it's better to leave the PS4 to limited since i also use the PS4 Pro to watch blu-rays. And film content must always be viewed with Limited RGB range (called Low HDMI black level on the TV). But after doing multiple tests i can confirm that my PS4 Pro auto corrects to limited RGB when you start a blu ray movie. The TV HDMI black level options is greyed out as soon as you start the blu ray and will still say Normal but that's not true. There are no crushed blacks and the image looks identical as compared to the same content with RGB range set to limited and HDMI black level to Low.
This is because the PS4 Pro is auto-switching to YCrCb when you start a blu ray movie (rather than auto corrects to limited RGB). We know this because the "black level" options item is always greyed out when the TV is receiving YCrCb, and it's always available when receiving RGB. If you run the signal through a Denon AVR, a HDFury or any other device which reveals signal details (sadly not our TV's Info banner!), you'll be able to verify this
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post #33667 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post
I've also noticed the HDR brightness being "boosted"/more intense after this update. You'd have to take some measurements to be absolutely sure, obviously, but I felt that even before it was mentioned here. HDR looks notably brighter to my eyes at least.
Very interesting. I thought it was placebo. But now that my fellow Samsung owners are commenting, I'm going to have to get my colorimeter out and take some new measurements

Busy weekend ahead though so I don't know when exactly. My "Hans Zimmer live in Prague" blu-Ray has arrived, and it's the Chinese Formula 1 race and the Roman Formula E race!

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post #33668 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 11:06 AM
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Very interesting. I thought it was placebo. But now that my fellow Samsung owners are commenting, I'm going to have to get my colorimeter out and take some new measurements

Busy weekend ahead though so I don't know when exactly. My "Hans Zimmer live in Prague" blu-Ray has arrived, and it's the Chinese Formula 1 race and the Roman Formula E race!
The wife just came home and she immediatly asked me not to touch the tv settings anymore and wondered what i did, because she said it looks way better then before. And she normally doesn't notice any changes i make to the tv even if they are drastic. (Was watching Planet Earth 2 HDR while she walked in)
I'm 95% positive that at least the HDR brightness while using LED Clear Motion has been increased. And i would be surprised if the 'normal' HDR didn't get a brightness boost also.

I'm looking forward to the results. But please don't feel pressured and take you're time to enjoy the weekend
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post #33669 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 12:07 PM
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Anyone get tiny spots on their screen? Where are these coming from? dust? It feels like scraping flakes. What does everyone use to clean the screen?
Is this ok?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #33670 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 01:16 PM
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Great how you can't run windows 10 in HDR in PC mode without the picture screwing up, all over sharpened with a blue tint.
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post #33671 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
The wife just came home and she immediatly asked me not to touch the tv settings anymore and wondered what i did, because she said it looks way better then before. And she normally doesn't notice any changes i make to the tv even if they are drastic. (Was watching Planet Earth 2 HDR while she walked in)
I'm 95% positive that at least the HDR brightness while using LED Clear Motion has been increased. And i would be surprised if the 'normal' HDR didn't get a brightness boost also.

I'm looking forward to the results. But please don't feel pressured and take you're time to enjoy the weekend

Can anyone put these questions to bed....

LED Clear Motion clearly makes the screen dimmer. For HDR, it seems to basically set it back to SDR blackness, with a lot of detail being hidden back into the blacks. And there is no way to increase the brightness to what it looks like without LEDCM on. So....

1) Does LED CLear Motion decrease HDR max and overall normal brightness in a way that harms the overall PQ of the HDR image? Or is the brightness still able to reach the recommended nits for HDR?

2) If it isn't harming the brightness, is the level of dimming still crushing blacks that normally wouldn't be crushed if you didn't enable LED Clear Motion?

Because I have these questions, I'm hesitant to use LEDCM. From eye test only, when I've looked at what it does, it definitely hides detail I was able to see with it off... but then I'm not sure if that is something that is correct or if the regular HDR picture was just too bright for the content to begin with and what I was seeing should have been darker in the 1st place.

Basically, I have a lot of second guesses and insecurities with using LEDCM and not knowing what the "original image" should even really look like in the 1st place to be able to help me decide which image I should obtain. I like the brighter image, but I also like how LEDCM can help with a lot of motion issues on certain movies that show the flaws of this set.

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post #33672 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post
I've also noticed the HDR brightness being "boosted"/more intense after this update. You'd have to take some measurements to be absolutely sure, obviously, but I felt that even before it was mentioned here. HDR looks notably brighter to my eyes at least.
Are you seeing this on any specific app or just across the board?

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post #33673 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 03:19 PM
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Can anyone put these questions to bed....

LED Clear Motion clearly makes the screen dimmer. For HDR, it seems to basically set it back to SDR blackness, with a lot of detail being hidden back into the blacks. And there is no way to increase the brightness to what it looks like without LEDCM on. So....
I can't put anything to bed, but I can give my own opinion FWIW.

I haven't looked properly at black crushing issues with it either on or off to be honest.

Quote:
1) Does LED CLear Motion decrease HDR max and overall normal brightness in a way that harms the overall PQ of the HDR image? Or is the brightness still able to reach the recommended nits for HDR?
The screen is black for part of the time that it wouldn't otherwise be, so the total "output of light per second" if you like, will be lower. How much, who knows. in SDR, I think it's about "3 backlight clicks" worth of brightness difference. I shall have to measure properly with my meter as well when I'm measuring the new firmware's effects.

But the TV's tone-mapping could/should take this into account.

Remember, the vast vast majority of content is still going to be 100 nits or below. when you say "recommended nits for HDR", Every panel has its own peak brightness level, and tone-mapping is used by the TV if it can't get to that level.

Crash course:
Most HDR content is below 100 nits, and this is correct:


Comparison of different tone-mapping pros and cons:


Quote:
2) If it isn't harming the brightness, is the level of dimming still crushing blacks that normally wouldn't be crushed if you didn't enable LED Clear Motion?

Because I have these questions, I'm hesitant to use LEDCM. From eye test only, when I've looked at what it does, it definitely hides detail I was able to see with it off... but then I'm not sure if that is something that is correct or if the regular HDR picture was just too bright for the content to begin with and what I was seeing should have been darker in the 1st place.

Basically, I have a lot of second guesses and insecurities with using LEDCM and not knowing what the "original image" should even really look like in the 1st place to be able to help me decide which image I should obtain. I like the brighter image, but I also like how LEDCM can help with a lot of motion issues on certain movies that show the flaws of this set.
Pass. I don't really like the flicker very much so don't use LED Clear Motion often, but I have recently tried to train myself to tolerate it.

However, for movies at 24Hz, motion issues are not a problem anyway! You do not need any kind of motion compensation algorithm for 24Hz content on this TV. That content it is designed to have the filmic 24Hz "judder" and the camera's shutter speed and exposure is tuned with this in mind. Sometimes they add blurring to the frames of the movie too. It's intended to be watched at 24Hz (although in the cinema it's projected at multiples of 24Hz with frames flashed more than once!). So, turn Auto Motion Plus to "off" and it will be correct. (that's Vincent's recommendation too )

Anyway that's just what I think. Would really like to hear other people's comments!

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Are you seeing this on any specific app or just across the board?
I re-watched the start of "The Man in the High Castle" on Amazon Prime Video. Lots of lovely bright lights. Including some welding in a factory near the start (timestamp 3:50). It really does seem brighter than I remember it!
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post #33674 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 04:05 PM
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Wow, that's awful. This might sound stupid but have you tried buying a new HDMI cable? For instance I couldn't get HDR to work on my PS4 until I got a newer cable.



I'd be extremely surprised if they increased the backlight intensity via a firmware update, I doubt that's possible. They could have just refined the way it interprets HDR data but as we never get release notes, who knows?
By changing the part of the TV's full possible luminance range that the contrast and backlight controls actually expose, Samsung could change the maximum luminance the set displays, but you'll still "see" only 0-20 for backlight and 0-100 for contrast. Or, they could be boosting voltage to the backlight. Either way, if there's any more luminance to be had, they can do it.
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post #33675 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 11:03 PM
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By changing the part of the TV's full possible luminance range that the contrast and backlight controls actually expose, Samsung could change the maximum luminance the set displays, but you'll still "see" only 0-20 for backlight and 0-100 for contrast. Or, they could be boosting voltage to the backlight. Either way, if there's any more luminance to be had, they can do it.
Or we are all having a mutual group-placebo because we're all so pleased to get a firmware upgrade at last! But surely it can't be that

When I took my readings (see my posts of 2nd March) I only got 500 nits in HDR, and was a bit disappointed actually, because I could have sworn the TV was marked as "HDR1000", and it meets the Ultra HD Premium specifications which means (as an LCD) it must have a 1000-nit peak brightness. Otherwise Samsung are lying (and I'm sure they wouldn't do that [see HDR10+ fiasco, BBC iPlayer DVB-DASH HLG fiasco, etc!]). I didn't know if it was my panel had degraded, there was a fault, or "other". I do know that Vincent Teoh got 1380 nits out of his review sample (link), even if his was hand-picked and tweaked by Samsung, it's the same model and 500 to 1400 is almost a tripling!

Vincent's review sample:



Mine, pre-calibration March 2018:




Before I've done any measurements my thinking is that the drop in peak brightness is one of the bugs that were introduced in firmware changes that Rudy1's Samsung contact was referring to. The management were angry that so many bugs had crept in and the goal was to fix them before adding the Game Mode enhancement. I don't know what they were or how many were fixed, but perhaps a serious drop in peak brightness is one of them, and perhaps this is why it's a "mandatory" firmware upgrade that will be forced to everyone?
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post #33676 of 37150 Old 04-13-2018, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TheManko View Post
I've compared Game Mode vs Standard vs Movie and they all look identical, as long as you change the picture settings to be the same between them. The Game Mode default settings are hideous, as it has Sharpness on 50, Color Tone Cool, and has both Smart LED and Dynamic Contrast enabled. But once you change all those to something fit for human consumption, it looks the same. There are no issues with color rendering or anything like that. Everything is the same as the non-Game Mode presets.


I like your style.

Forgot to stress in my previous post, when checking peak brightness in HDR, I definitely had Smart LED set to "High" which should have allowed >500 nits. Maybe that was one of the bugs.
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post #33677 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 01:35 AM
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Well chalk up another KS8000 owner that's moving on (a 65" 930e while I could find one local). After my horrible experience with Samsung on this unit (which I seriously enjoyed before all the panel issues, on my third panel) I finally received an exchange from their executive department (which is basically a store credit for the original purchase price).


I already have this feeling that I am going to regret buying the 930e due to future advancements/features (like HDMI 2.1, higher nit) but what the heck, live for today and plan for tomorrow, right...


Best of luck everyone, may your displays stay problem free.
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post #33678 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Sturdivant View Post
Can anyone put these questions to bed....

LED Clear Motion clearly makes the screen dimmer. For HDR, it seems to basically set it back to SDR blackness, with a lot of detail being hidden back into the blacks. And there is no way to increase the brightness to what it looks like without LEDCM on. So....

1) Does LED CLear Motion decrease HDR max and overall normal brightness in a way that harms the overall PQ of the HDR image? Or is the brightness still able to reach the recommended nits for HDR?

2) If it isn't harming the brightness, is the level of dimming still crushing blacks that normally wouldn't be crushed if you didn't enable LED Clear Motion?

Because I have these questions, I'm hesitant to use LEDCM. From eye test only, when I've looked at what it does, it definitely hides detail I was able to see with it off... but then I'm not sure if that is something that is correct or if the regular HDR picture was just too bright for the content to begin with and what I was seeing should have been darker in the 1st place.

Basically, I have a lot of second guesses and insecurities with using LEDCM and not knowing what the "original image" should even really look like in the 1st place to be able to help me decide which image I should obtain. I like the brighter image, but I also like how LEDCM can help with a lot of motion issues on certain movies that show the flaws of this set.
I found a youtube clip which is a perfect testcase to show what LEDCM actually does. I always knew what this option did in theory but this clip is actually the first time i actually experienced it's function myself.
Watch the following clip on your TV. Go to 9:20 in the video and you should see names scrolling from right to left on the bottom of the screen.
Try to read those names with LEDCM off and then again with LEDCM on. Make sure to only activate LEDCM and leave the Blur and Judder reduction slider at 0, and no Auto Clean View activated for it to work propperly.


I personally think LEDCM works really well while watching TV on my cablebox, Netflix and via my External HDD. Than i can't notice any flickering at all. I do notice flickering while using LEDCM with gaming or other high framerate content like Youtube. So take that into account while watching the clip above. It's just meant to demonstrate the effects of LEDCM even though youtube itself is not a great source to use LEDCM on. For SDR you can indeed increase the backlight settings to compensate for the loss in brightness. It's true that you can't do that for HDR since you're already using maximum Backlight. If you have the need to increase the HDR brightness while using LEDCM, you can put Dynamic Contrast on Low as a workaround to get a similar brightness on HDR, as while watching HDR without LEDCM.

And the main reason why i use LEDCM isn't even because of the main intended use of LEDCM, but because of the (positive) side effects that it creates. And that is that the blacks stay really black. And blooming is (as good as) completely eliminated. I live in the Netherlands so i watch a lot of content with subtitles enabled. Smart LED High (which you use while watching HDR content) in combination with dark scenes or black bars in a movie is absolutely devastating for the amount of blooming it can produce whenever white subtitles appear on screen. LEDCM solves this problem significantly.

Just as mrtickleuk says i'm trying to train my eyes to watch content with this option on since i noticed it's effects so clearly with the youtube video above. And being able to watch the intro of The Cloverfield Paradox, with subtitles, without (almost) any blooming present. (Right at the start of the movie around 01:30 where they're talking to eachother in the car while the lights in the city go out due to a power faillure).

Here's a more detailed explanation about LEDCM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
However, for movies at 24Hz, motion issues are not a problem anyway! You do not need any kind of motion compensation algorithm for 24Hz content on this TV. That content it is designed to have the filmic 24Hz "judder" and the camera's shutter speed and exposure is tuned with this in mind. Sometimes they add blurring to the frames of the movie too. It's intended to be watched at 24Hz (although in the cinema it's projected at multiples of 24Hz with frames flashed more than once!). So, turn Auto Motion Plus to "off" and it will be correct. (that's Vincent's recommendation too )

Anyway that's just what I think. Would really like to hear other people's comments!
Do you mean that Vincent reccomends to not use LED Clear Motion? Or to not use the de-judder reduction option, which creates the Soap Opera Effect via Motion Interpolation. I personally always want to see the content as close as possible as intended by the content creater. I never use de-judder option because it creates frames that are not present on the source. I'm also active on a forum in my own country (The Netherlands). And there the consensus is that you should never use the de-judder option. To us it's typical an American thing to see people use the de-judder option at 10

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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Or we are all having a mutual group-placebo because we're all so pleased to get a firmware upgrade at last! But surely it can't be that

When I took my readings (see my posts of 2nd March) I only got 500 nits in HDR, and was a bit disappointed actually, because I could have sworn the TV was marked as "HDR1000", and it meets the Ultra HD Premium specifications which means (as an LCD) it must have a 1000-nit peak brightness. Otherwise Samsung are lying (and I'm sure they wouldn't do that [see HDR10+ fiasco, BBC iPlayer DVB-DASH HLG fiasco, etc!]). I didn't know if it was my panel had degraded, there was a fault, or "other". I do know that Vincent Teoh got 1380 nits out of his review sample (link), even if his was hand-picked and tweaked by Samsung, it's the same model and 500 to 1400 is almost a tripling!
Did you perform your measurement in Film mode or in Standard mode? It looks to me as if the backlight output is reduced significantly faster due to some form of ABL when using Film mode. This also seems to correspond with the 'backlight breathing' issue which was demonstrated with the Netflix show Abstract: The Art of design, while using film mode. That's the reason why i only use Standard picture mode for HDR content.

For the ones who missed it, here's a picture of the new symbol which shows which picture mode is used since the latest firmware update. Just move your cursur over the 'Settings' icon.

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Last edited by ThaBEN; 04-14-2018 at 06:31 AM.
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post #33679 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Or we are all having a mutual group-placebo because we're all so pleased to get a firmware upgrade at last! But surely it can't be that

When I took my readings (see my posts of 2nd March) I only got 500 nits in HDR, and was a bit disappointed actually, because I could have sworn the TV was marked as "HDR1000", and it meets the Ultra HD Premium specifications which means (as an LCD) it must have a 1000-nit peak brightness. Otherwise Samsung are lying (and I'm sure they wouldn't do that [see HDR10+ fiasco, BBC iPlayer DVB-DASH HLG fiasco, etc!]). I didn't know if it was my panel had degraded, there was a fault, or "other". I do know that Vincent Teoh got 1380 nits out of his review sample (link), even if his was hand-picked and tweaked by Samsung, it's the same model and 500 to 1400 is almost a tripling!

Vincent's review sample:



Mine, pre-calibration March 2018:




Before I've done any measurements my thinking is that the drop in peak brightness is one of the bugs that were introduced in firmware changes that Rudy1's Samsung contact was referring to. The management were angry that so many bugs had crept in and the goal was to fix them before adding the Game Mode enhancement. I don't know what they were or how many were fixed, but perhaps a serious drop in peak brightness is one of them, and perhaps this is why it's a "mandatory" firmware upgrade that will be forced to everyone?
I've seen ~1300 nits on my KS8000 only once or twice. Mostly it's in the 600-750 nit range. But in my experience so far, this set is also greatly impacted by pattern size, with a great deal more variance in luminance as pattern size changes than the old school big-screen CRT in our living room. So if you change pattern size between sessions, your measurements will, too.

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post #33680 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 07:14 AM
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Just typed a very long reply and lost it all . Short version.

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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
I live in the Netherlands so i watch a lot of content with subtitles enabled.
Gezellig!

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Do you mean that Vincent reccomends to not use LED Clear Motion? Or to not use the de-judder reduction option, which creates the Soap Opera Effect via Motion Interpolation. I personally always want to see the content as close as possible as intended by the content creater. I never use de-judder option because it creates frames that are not present on the source. I'm also active on a forum in my own country (The Netherlands). And there the consensus is that you should never use the de-judder option. To us it's typical an American thing to see people use the de-judder option at 10
He loves LED Clear Motion and always promotes it. I think he meant to avoid any form of interpolation for 24Hz content. But now I am doubting my memory and he could have made that comment about 60Hz content. I will try to find the video in which he said it.

Quote:
Did you perform your measurement in Film mode or in Standard mode? It looks to me as if the backlight output is reduced significantly faster due to some form of ABL when using Film mode. This also seems to correspond with the 'backlight breathing' issue which was demonstrated with the Netflix show Abstract: The Art of design, while using film mode. That's the reason why i only use Standard picture mode for HDR content.
I think it was in Film mode ("Movie mode" on English language UIs - for us, "Film mode" is the option within Expert settings which has off/auto1/auto2 to control 2:2 and 3:2 pulldown algorithms) but can't be sure. The reason is that Calman only gives a DDC connection for Movie, Cal-night and Cal-day.

Quote:
For the ones who missed it, here's a picture of the new symbol which shows which picture mode is used since the latest firmware update. Just move your cursur over the 'Settings' icon.

Thanks.

It only works in Game mode, which is really stupid.

It's not there for Movie, Standard, or any of the other modes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I've seen ~1300 nits on my KS8000 only once or twice. Mostly it's in the 600-750 nit range. But in my experience so far, this set is also greatly impacted by pattern size, with a great deal more variance in luminance as pattern size changes than the old school big-screen CRT in our living room. So if you change pattern size between sessions, your measurements will, too.
Yes I know but I was talking about the Ultra HD Premium certification. Unless the TV can get >90% of P3 and hit 1000 nits for a 10% pattern of full white, Samsung is not allowed to use the badge in its marketing, which it did.

However, watch this space...

ok, I've just measured 1200 nits with a 10% window! And 700 nits with a 5% window. My 500 nits session was probably with a 5% window I think.

Massively happy!

Also, the backlight in SDR Movie is much brighter than before. And the backlight in SDR Standard is dimmer than before. Pics to follow.
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post #33681 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Just typed a very long reply and lost it all . Short version.



Gezellig!
I didn't know you could speak Dutch LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
He loves LED Clear Motion and always promotes it. I think he meant to avoid any form of interpolation for 24Hz content. But now I am doubting my memory and he could have made that comment about 60Hz content. I will try to find the video in which he said it.



I think it was in Film mode ("Movie mode" on English language UIs - for us, "Film mode" is the option within Expert settings which has off/auto1/auto2 to control 2:2 and 3:2 pulldown algorithms) but can't be sure. The reason is that Calman only gives a DDC connection for Movie, Cal-night and Cal-day.
You're correct, it was a translation error. Movie is 'Film' in the Dutch language which makes it easy for me to make mistakes when translating from Dutch to English. I meant the picture mode which is called 'Movie' in the English UI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Thanks.

It only works in Game mode, which is really stupid.

It's not there for Movie, Standard, or any of the other modes!



Yes I know but I was talking about the Ultra HD Premium certification. Unless the TV can get >90% of P3 and hit 1000 nits for a 10% pattern of full white, Samsung is not allowed to use the badge in its marketing, which it did.

However, watch this space...

ok, I've just measured 1200 nits with a 10% window! And 700 nits with a 5% window. My 500 nits session was probably with a 5% window I think.

Massively happy!

Also, the backlight in SDR Movie is much brighter than before. And the backlight in SDR Standard is dimmer than before. Pics to follow.
Sounds promising! If it's not to much to ask, could you also perform a measurement of 'Game mode' SDR so we can compare this to Movie/Standard picture mode?
Then i know for example if it's worth it to deactivate game mode when i watch a blu-ray on my PS4 Pro

Thanks in advance for considering this request

*****UPDATE*****

Ok so i'm going to post something that is based on no science or any measurments of any kind. So i got nothing to back up these claims other than my own gut feeling. Just wanted to post the following in case someone with a more technical background than myself might see some value in my observation.

So i'm messing around with LED Clear Motion specifically for the sources that do give me flickering, like youtube and gaming. Just to see if i can do something about this. Then i noticed that it looked like the higher the brightness value, the more noticeble the flickering becomes.

So as stated earlier by mrtickleuk, a backlight value of 6 seems to correspond in brightness with a backlight value of 9 when LED Clear Motion is activated.

So i went to youtube (SDR) and as a test i activated LED Clear Motion with a brightness level of 9. As expected i could see the flickering on these sources. Now i lowered the brightness level to 6 with LED Clear Motion still active, and as a workaround i set Dynamic Contrast to Low to increase the overall brightness of the screen.
To my naked eye brightness 6 with Dynamic Conrast at Low looks almost identical to Brightness 9 without Dynamic Contrast activated. Led Clear Motion is still activated in both setups. But the flickering seems less invasive in the combination with the lower Backlight number. Don't get me wrong, it's still there but to me it looks less distracting.

As i said before, i got nothing to back up these claims other than my own gut feeling. And honestly i think i might just start imagining things, so don't put any value into this.

And yes, i do know that Dynamic Contrast gives a less accurate picture quality but still wanted to share my thoughts on the off chance that this could help someone figure out how to have LED Clear Motion active on more sources without the flickering being an issue

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post #33682 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 01:24 PM
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Anyone still not had their OTA update for the 1220 Firmware. I've even tried downloading online and updating via USB but my TV is saying it's up to date.
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post #33683 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I re-watched the start of "The Man in the High Castle" on Amazon Prime Video. Lots of lovely bright lights. Including some welding in a factory near the start (timestamp 3:50). It really does seem brighter than I remember it!
Hey,

What are your settings?
Could you please post it here? Do you have HDR + turned on or are you in normal movie mode?

Best Regards
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post #33684 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 02:12 PM
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Anyone still not had their OTA update for the 1220 Firmware. I've even tried downloading online and updating via USB but my TV is saying it's up to date.
Check out the pdf included in the very first post for info on how to properly update via USB.
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post #33685 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 02:41 PM
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Check out the pdf included in the very first post for info on how to properly update via USB.
This was the first thing I checked. I've downloaded the file, then extracted it, and then moving it onto my HDD (I'm on a Mac).

Then when I insert it into my TV, it doesn't show up, and I'm apparently already up to date (1208).
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post #33686 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack25 View Post
This was the first thing I checked. I've downloaded the file, then extracted it, and then moving it onto my HDD (I'm on a Mac).

Then when I insert it into my TV, it doesn't show up, and I'm apparently already up to date (1208).
Move the zip file into the USB drive and extract it in there.

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post #33687 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack25 View Post
This was the first thing I checked. I've downloaded the file, then extracted it, and then moving it onto my HDD (I'm on a Mac).

Then when I insert it into my TV, it doesn't show up, and I'm apparently already up to date (1208).
Couple of things. Does it even ask you to check the thumb drive? I update all the time via USB. When I have had trouble it is almost always a specific drive I am having trouble with. USB device. I have read on here about opening the file up moving it and doing a lot to get it to work. If you put the file sealed or unpacked on your jump drive. It will work. There must be other things at play with your situation. Might be the Mac as file extensions are different. At the least the thumb drive should be formatted at fat32. While not required. I make sure the files I need are the only ones on the drive. I was at 1209 before I went to 1220 Good luck.
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post #33688 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 03:42 PM
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Well chalk up another KS8000 owner that's moving on (a 65" 930e while I could find one local). After my horrible experience with Samsung on this unit (which I seriously enjoyed before all the panel issues, on my third panel) I finally received an exchange from their executive department (which is basically a store credit for the original purchase price).


I already have this feeling that I am going to regret buying the 930e due to future advancements/features (like HDMI 2.1, higher nit) but what the heck, live for today and plan for tomorrow, right...


Best of luck everyone, may your displays stay problem free.
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Hey man . Geek squad could not obtain a panel to replace my 55 KS8000. I took the value of the tv as store credit (1,000) and paid the extra amount and got a Sony 900 F. I'm gonna miss my KS8000 but I have never had a set go bad in the short amount of time that I had this one.
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post #33689 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 04:20 PM
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Couple of things. Does it even ask you to check the thumb drive? I update all the time via USB. When I have had trouble it is almost always a specific drive I am having trouble with. USB device. I have read on here about opening the file up moving it and doing a lot to get it to work. If you put the file sealed or unpacked on your jump drive. It will work. There must be other things at play with your situation. Might be the Mac as file extensions are different. At the least the thumb drive should be formatted at fat32. While not required. I make sure the files I need are the only ones on the drive. I was at 1209 before I went to 1220 Good luck.
Funnily enough, I just needed to format to fat32. Have now updated, many thanks.
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post #33690 of 37150 Old 04-14-2018, 08:14 PM
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Anyone still not had their OTA update for the 1220 Firmware. I've even tried downloading online and updating via USB but my TV is saying it's up to date.
I'm still on 1207. Not having any major issues with my AA02 panel. Knock on wood!
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