Official Samsung KS8000/KS8500 Owners Thread - Page 1232 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36931 of 37002 Old 02-08-2020, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by justpassedu View Post
Checked the receiver and all hdmi inputs are on enhanced . Tried so many settings with this tv and was never very happy with the picture quality . It’s not bad but I bought a 55’’ 4K lg bottom of the line tv with no hdr from Walmart when 4K just started coming out and sometimes me and wife feel the picture quality is on par if not better watching sd tv. I think we may stick with lg for future purchases. We like a bright colorful picture , hdr never impressed me with this set and I have run tests on the Xbox one x that proves it’s working . I feel it’s been a trade off between a darker picture for hdr to look nice or a brighter picture and hdr not looking so great . I know that’s not how it’s intended to be watched . I wish I could afford a pro calibration right now after trying so many recommended settings from the forum .
Hopefully someone with an Xbox One X can chime in since I don't have one. I believe game mode disables certain picture processing settings that may be useful for HDR. I've never had a problem with HDR being dim on the KS8000 using my ATV4K. I have all special picture modes disabled. In movie mode when HDR kicks in, I have defaults for everything except the following adjustments below (I will verify that backlight and contrast max out automatically and enable the options below):

For HDR:
All special picture modes disabled.
Picture Mode: Movie
HDMI UHD Color: On
Smart LED: High
Dynamic Contrast: Medium
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: 0
Auto Motion Plus: Custom (Blur Reduction 10 : Judder Reduction 3 : LED Clear Motion Off)
System -> Eco Solution -> Off for all options

Also, all of my HDMI cables are newer and fully capable of the 18Gbps bandwidth. What are the picture settings you are using where you notice issues with HDR brightness?

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post #36932 of 37002 Old 02-08-2020, 11:32 AM
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I basically am running the same settings you are , I never use game mode though . The only difference is instead of warm1 or 2 in movie mode watching hdr I change it to cool as I feel the colors are about more vibrant .
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post #36933 of 37002 Old 02-08-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by justpassedu View Post
I basically am running the same settings you are , I never use game mode though . The only difference is instead of warm1 or 2 in movie mode watching hdr I change it to cool as I feel the colors are about more vibrant .
Something else you can try if HDR isn't bright enough is to increase gamma or brightness.

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post #36934 of 37002 Old 02-09-2020, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by zulix View Post
Dynamic contrast on or off for HDR movies? I'm using movie mode
Endless subject of debate in this thread a couple of years ago. Dynamic contrast definitely brightens up the picture in HDR mode so if you like a bright picture with lots of “pop” (or run SDR at a high brightness) then you may want to use it. Personally though I leave it off, I think the picture is more accurate that way and the HDR highlights have more impact. You’ll find people here advocating for both approaches.
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post #36935 of 37002 Old 02-09-2020, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garwoofoo View Post
Endless subject of debate in this thread a couple of years ago. Dynamic contrast definitely brightens up the picture in HDR mode so if you like a bright picture with lots of “pop” (or run SDR at a high brightness) then you may want to use it. Personally though I leave it off, I think the picture is more accurate that way and the HDR highlights have more impact. You’ll find people here advocating for both approaches.

Yes, although I think it would only impact accuracy if your TV is professionally calibrated and accurate to begin with. It is definitely a preference thing and you can adjust it accordingly or turn it off altogether. I really like the feature and think with recent firmware (and on newer models) it works very well. I like it on low for SDR and medium/high for HDR.

Samsung calls this their Micro dimming technology (which improves as you move up the line of models and year over year). Rtings actually mentions how the feature works at the bottom of the article below (they do not use it). Basically it analyzes frame by frame as it processes the picture and uses software to adjust contrast in different zones of the screen.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict.../local-dimming

In our models it is called dynamic contrast. It is now known as contrast enhancer in newer models. Combined with local dimming (Smart LED) it really helps the picture pop especially for HDR.



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post #36936 of 37002 Old 02-09-2020, 08:49 AM
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Are we still arguing about Dynamic Contrast and how having it on is not accurate?
Accurate based on what and whom?
Half the calibrators out there don't even know how to calibrate for HDR!
And why would I want a 1,000 Nit plus TV displaying a dull image because of someone else's perception of accurate?
If you want your HDR to look good, DC needs to be on. Medium to High for Movies and High for Animated or CGI based stuff!
I don't care how accurate it looks in HDR, I just want an amazing popping experience!
Now for SDR, I'm all about the closest I can get to accuracy and I leave it at Low.
DC is your friend and it's just a flippin TV!
Watch it how you like it!


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post #36937 of 37002 Old 02-09-2020, 08:58 AM
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When I say accurate, I don't mean I've had my set professionally calibrated or anything.

I find that - personally - Dynamic Contrast over-brightens the picture. Areas that are clearly meant to be in shadow are too brightly lit. Things that are meant to be bright are sometimes so bright they're actually a bit painful to look at. Skin tones don't look quite right. And so on.

With it off, it all looks "right". For SDR I have the backlight set to 8 and I find that SDR and HDR then have similar overall brightness, the HDR picture doesn't look dull at all. Admittedly I watch in a dark room, that does make a difference.

I've tried DC on all three settings for extended periods, plus played around with HDR+ mode which I find gives similar results, and overall I just think the picture looks more natural with DC off. But as you say, "watch it how you like it" - "it's just a TV".
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post #36938 of 37002 Old 02-09-2020, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garwoofoo View Post
When I say accurate, I don't mean I've had my set professionally calibrated or anything.

I find that - personally - Dynamic Contrast over-brightens the picture. Areas that are clearly meant to be in shadow are too brightly lit. Things that are meant to be bright are sometimes so bright they're actually a bit painful to look at. Skin tones don't look quite right. And so on.

With it off, it all looks "right". For SDR I have the backlight set to 8 and I find that SDR and HDR then have similar overall brightness, the HDR picture doesn't look dull at all. Admittedly I watch in a dark room, that does make a difference.

I've tried DC on all three settings for extended periods, plus played around with HDR+ mode which I find gives similar results, and overall I just think the picture looks more natural with DC off. But as you say, "watch it how you like it" - "it's just a TV".
Sorry, I used professional calibration as an example since that is where my head jumps when talking about picture accuracy. Honestly, I really like the setting and would probably still use it even if I did pay for professional calibration. I agree, it definitely is a preference and like you said room conditions play into it as well. My room doesn't have light pointed directly at the screen but it is a living room which typically has the lights on (or dimmed). I just wanted to point out that dynamic contrast/contrast enhancer (micro dimming) is a feature that is still marketed by Samsung that they are spending money on before people go ahead and disable it. For instance on the Q80R the fine print states "³Direct Full Array Numerical Index based on backlighting, antireflection and contrast enhancement technologies". I wish rtings would test HDR brightness with this feature enabled vs disabled so that people could see how much impact it has. They will adjust local dimming for some of their tests but this setting also impacts HDR.
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post #36939 of 37002 Old 02-09-2020, 01:41 PM
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DC High cranks up saturation a little as well and definitely not good for cinematic movies and skin tones. But they look great on Animation and CGI movies like Transformers, Avengers, and etc.
Not sure why DC is messing with your shadows. If anything, it makes the dark darker and the bright brighter!
Sounds like a Gamma or a Brightness issue!
DC High can crush blacks and whites in some instances but that's about it!


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post #36940 of 37002 Old 02-11-2020, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
DC High cranks up saturation a little as well and definitely not good for cinematic movies and skin tones. But they look great on Animation and CGI movies like Transformers, Avengers, and etc.
Not sure why DC is messing with your shadows. If anything, it makes the dark darker and the bright brighter!
Sounds like a Gamma or a Brightness issue!
DC High can crush blacks and whites in some instances but that's about it!

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What you're describing is the 'Smart LED' function. 'Dynamic Contrast' actually decreases the maximum differences between dark and bright, which tends to make the overall image brighter. (This is also explained in the the TV menu when you highlight Dynamic Contrast with your cursor.) You'll lose details in dark scenes/shadows but will increase overall peak brightness.

You can visualize 'Dynamic Contrast' like this (With 0 being darkest, 100 being peak brightness):
With 'Dyncmic Contrast' at 'Off' your brightness scale goes from 0 - 100.
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'Low' that scale is more like 15 - 100
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'Medium' that scale is something like 30 - 100
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'High' it looks like it behaves as it does with Medium, but the colors will get extra saturation and/or the black levels might be adjusted.

With each increasing step the average picture brightness will be higher.

Last edited by ThaBEN; 02-11-2020 at 02:25 AM.
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post #36941 of 37002 Old 02-11-2020, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
What you're describing is the 'Smart LED' function. 'Dynamic Contrast' actually decreases the maximum differences between dark and bright, which tends to make the overall image brighter. (This is also explained in the the TV menu when you highlight Dynamic Contrast with your cursor.) You'll lose details in dark scenes/shadows but will increase overall peak brightness.

You can visualize 'Dynamic Contrast' like this (With 0 being darkest, 100 being peak brightness):
With 'Dyncmic Contrast' at 'Off' your brightness scale goes from 0 - 100.
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'Low' that scale is more like 15 - 100
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'Medium' that scale is something like 30 - 100
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'High' it looks like it behaves as it does with Medium, but the colors will get extra saturation and/or the black levels might be adjusted.

With each increasing step the average picture brightness will be higher.

I actually find dynamic contrast on high to be a little darker on average than low (but the highlights are brighter). SmartLED could be the culprit or a combo of that with dynamic contrast. I’m not sure that it limits brightness like you describe in a fixed manner as it is analyzing each scene and applying a picture processing algorithm to the contrast. The higher the setting the more aggressive the processing will be. On the specs for their TVs they list contrast enhancer as a depth enhancement technology. Taken from the rtings article I previously mentioned:

Micro dimming: A Samsung feature. Processes the video in an attempt to mimic local dimming. It doesn’t dim the backlight, but instead, changes the contrast of different areas of the picture. Video purists usually dislike it, because it messes with the video settings of the TV, changing contrast from frame to frame.

This is the best explanation I’ve found that matches what I’ve observed with dynamic contrast / contrast enhancer feature.



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post #36942 of 37002 Old 02-13-2020, 08:50 AM
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Just checked the Disney+ app on teh TV and saw that HDR10 was available, although the movies still show HD. Watched Endgame and was surprised at how good the HDR looked on my TV. Hopefully they'll update the app to play 4k but Endgame still looked phenomenal.
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post #36943 of 37002 Old 02-15-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman0725 View Post
Hopefully someone with an Xbox One X can chime in since I don't have one. I believe game mode disables certain picture processing settings that may be useful for HDR. I've never had a problem with HDR being dim on the KS8000 using my ATV4K. I have all special picture modes disabled. In movie mode when HDR kicks in, I have defaults for everything except the following adjustments below (I will verify that backlight and contrast max out automatically and enable the options below):

For HDR:
All special picture modes disabled.
Picture Mode: Movie
HDMI UHD Color: On
Smart LED: High
Dynamic Contrast: Medium
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: 0
Auto Motion Plus: Custom (Blur Reduction 10 : Judder Reduction 3 : LED Clear Motion Off)
System -> Eco Solution -> Off for all options

Also, all of my HDMI cables are newer and fully capable of the 18Gbps bandwidth. What are the picture settings you are using where you notice issues with HDR brightness?
I have both an Xbox One X and PS4 Pro connected directly to the TV. Always used the settings in the PDF from page 1, thaBEN had some settings awhile ago as well. Never had an issue with HDR at all, it looks amazing on this TV. Red Dead 2, Forza Horizon 4, Plague Tale: Innocence all look stellar. Make sure the consoles themselves are set up properly. I have both set to 4K in the video settings of Xbox/PS4.

Xbox One X/PS4 PRO: SDR
Mode: Game Mode
Backlight: 6
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 90
Sharpness: 0
Color: 49
Tint: 50/50
Apply Picture settings: Current Source
Digital Clean: OFF
Auto Motion Plus: OFF
SmartLED: OFF
HDMI UHD Color: On for all 4 HDMI inputs
HDMI Black Level: Auto
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Color: Warm 2
Gamma: -1
Color Space: Auto
Make sure all ECO settings OFF

Xbox One X/PS4 PRO: HDR (Only settings that changed)
Backlight: 20
Contrast: 100
Smart LED: High
Gamma: 0
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post #36944 of 37002 Old 02-18-2020, 02:50 AM
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Just seen 1242.0 firmware update has dropped on the UK support page.


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post #36945 of 37002 Old 02-18-2020, 11:04 AM
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Just seen 1242.0 firmware update has dropped on the UK support page.


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WTF - whats this for? We will never know that's for sure!
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post #36946 of 37002 Old 02-18-2020, 11:48 AM
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WTF - whats this for? We will never know that's for sure!
Installed. Seems OK. All apps I tried open OK. See they have added Britbox - is that a recent addition?
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post #36947 of 37002 Old 02-18-2020, 01:08 PM
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Setup Question


I have a KS8000 and have 2 inputs: DirecTV DVR and an Apple TV. I also use a AVR for 5.1. The 2 devices are connected directly to the AVR (Anthem MRX 520) and the output of the 520 is connected to the OneConnect box.

My issue with this setup is that I can't use the AppleTV without the 520 unless I turn on the 520 and change the pass through input. Right now it is set to the DirecTV DVR.

Is there another way to set this up? Should I be connecting both inputs to the OneConnect and the HDMI4 output to the 520? Would this result in the KS8000 used to select the input and the 520 would just process the audio, always being on the same input?

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post #36948 of 37002 Old 02-19-2020, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post
Setup Question


I have a KS8000 and have 2 inputs: DirecTV DVR and an Apple TV. I also use a AVR for 5.1. The 2 devices are connected directly to the AVR (Anthem MRX 520) and the output of the 520 is connected to the OneConnect box.

My issue with this setup is that I can't use the AppleTV without the 520 unless I turn on the 520 and change the pass through input. Right now it is set to the DirecTV DVR.

Is there another way to set this up? Should I be connecting both inputs to the OneConnect and the HDMI4 output to the 520? Would this result in the KS8000 used to select the input and the 520 would just process the audio, always being on the same input?

if your AVR support ARC, connect both sources to the TV



Downsides are
Only non HD audio (ARC supports only regular DD,DTS and PCM)
For the Samsung you have to switch the output format according to the source signal (DD,DTS,PCM) otherwise the TV decodes your multichannel audio to stereo PCM and sends it to ARC
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post #36949 of 37002 Old 02-19-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dolbymandts View Post
if your AVR support ARC, connect both sources to the TV
Just to confirm:

1 - connect sources to inputs 1 and 2 on the OneConnect
2 - connect OneConnect HDMI4 to the AVR

Yes?

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post #36950 of 37002 Old 02-19-2020, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post
Just to confirm:

1 - connect sources to inputs 1 and 2 on the OneConnect
2 - connect OneConnect HDMI4 to the AVR

Yes?

Check what HDMI port has (ARC) written on it, that one goes to the AVR, if that is HDMI 4 (I am not home right now to check) .. then YES
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post #36951 of 37002 Old 02-19-2020, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
Last week i had to factory reset my TV. I documented all my picture settings for all modes before doing the factory reset. I gathered these settings in the past few years from this forum and other sources. I do believe these are the "generally agreed upon" settings that are still applicable to firmware version 1241.5
The HDMI pdf documents also include Game Mode settings.

These settings are based on getting the most accurate picture quality (how the content provider wanted you to see the picture) for when your tv is not professionally calibrated. You'll only have to enter these settings once for each picture mode and your set.

Special thanks @kbyakko for the HDR+ settings!
So if I am using an Xbox S to watch Netflix or Amazon, I will be using4 HDMI HDR HDR+? Thanks for helping me out.
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post #36952 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by danwestbrook View Post
Just seen 1242.0 firmware update has dropped on the UK support page.


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Please can someone help?

Does any one have a UK backup firmware file 1241 or 1241.5 for a Samsung KS8000.

Thank you...
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post #36953 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by eBalita View Post
So if I am using an Xbox S to watch Netflix or Amazon, I will be using4 HDMI HDR HDR+? Thanks for helping me out.
It depends on which mode you prefer. You could use either the HDMI HDR settings (for default HDR content) or the HDMI HDR HDR+ settings (when you use the TV's HDR+ picture mode).
HDMI HDR will give you the most accurate colors.


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Originally Posted by Robi3 View Post
Please can someone help?

Does any one have a UK backup firmware file 1241 or 1241.5 for a Samsung KS8000.

Thank you...
Why do you need a backup file? Once you install a newer firmware version there is no way to revert back to a previous version. Not even when doing a factory reset.
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post #36954 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
It depends on which mode you prefer. You could use either the HDMI HDR settings (for default HDR content) or the HDMI HDR HDR+ settings (when you use the TV's HDR+ picture mode).
HDMI HDR will give you the most accurate colors.



Why do you need a backup file? Once you install a newer firmware version there is no way to revert back to a previous version. Not even when doing a factory reset.
Thanks for the reply,

I should of mentioned that the tv is on 1240 version at the moment and did not want to try the latest 1242 update until there is more feedback on how good/bad it is..
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post #36955 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 05:33 AM
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Is there a way to get the software to stop asking me if I want to set up an input? Every time I switch to my Apple TV it asks. It thinks it is a cable box so I can't even set it up properly if I wanted to.

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post #36956 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post
Is there a way to get the software to stop asking me if I want to set up an input? Every time I switch to my Apple TV it asks. It thinks it is a cable box so I can't even set it up properly if I wanted to.

try this
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post54904066
dminches and 3dprojector like this.
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post #36957 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dolbymandts View Post
I tried it and I didn’t get the setup message. Hopefully that means it works. I also noticed that my Smart Remote controls my Apple TV.

David M.
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post #36958 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
What you're describing is the 'Smart LED' function. 'Dynamic Contrast' actually decreases the maximum differences between dark and bright, which tends to make the overall image brighter. (This is also explained in the the TV menu when you highlight Dynamic Contrast with your cursor.) You'll lose details in dark scenes/shadows but will increase overall peak brightness.

You can visualize 'Dynamic Contrast' like this (With 0 being darkest, 100 being peak brightness):
With 'Dyncmic Contrast' at 'Off' your brightness scale goes from 0 - 100.
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'Low' that scale is more like 15 - 100
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'Medium' that scale is something like 30 - 100
With 'Dynamic Contrast' at 'High' it looks like it behaves as it does with Medium, but the colors will get extra saturation and/or the black levels might be adjusted.

With each increasing step the average picture brightness will be higher.
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Originally Posted by musicman0725 View Post
I actually find dynamic contrast on high to be a little darker on average than low (but the highlights are brighter). SmartLED could be the culprit or a combo of that with dynamic contrast. I’m not sure that it limits brightness like you describe in a fixed manner as it is analyzing each scene and applying a picture processing algorithm to the contrast. The higher the setting the more aggressive the processing will be. On the specs for their TVs they list contrast enhancer as a depth enhancement technology. Taken from the rtings article I previously mentioned:

Micro dimming: A Samsung feature. Processes the video in an attempt to mimic local dimming. It doesn’t dim the backlight, but instead, changes the contrast of different areas of the picture. Video purists usually dislike it, because it messes with the video settings of the TV, changing contrast from frame to frame.

This is the best explanation I’ve found that matches what I’ve observed with dynamic contrast / contrast enhancer feature.
These are two very informative explanations about what Dynamic Contrast does. I've recently been experimenting with Dynamic Contrast and these posts really helped me make sense of what I was observing. Thanks for that.

Basically, I believe that Dynamic Contrast mainly adds two things to the picture: contrast picture processing and mid-brightness luminance boost. The contrast picture processing appears to add a subtle amount of local contrast to objects in the picture that I view as an improvement. The mid-brightness luminace boost adds some shine to the image but ultimately it does alter the original luminance profile and can compress the dynamic range of the top half luminance of the picture.

After noticing this I decided to try to limit the mid-brightness luminance boost by setting Gamma and the RGB Offset in White Balance to negative values and it worked. You get the picture enhancements without all of the extra brightness. It works for both SDR and HDR. In HDR it also appears to apply other picture processing by scene and adding an appropriate boost to luminance and colors. Or it could be the same processing but more noticeable because of the larger dynamic range it has to work with. It also appears to ease banding at times.

I think Dynamic Contrast can be a positive feature when configured to one's tastes.
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post #36959 of 37002 Old 02-20-2020, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kbyakko View Post
These are two very informative explanations about what Dynamic Contrast does. I've recently been experimenting with Dynamic Contrast and these posts really helped me make sense of what I was observing. Thanks for that.

Basically, I believe that Dynamic Contrast mainly adds two things to the picture: contrast picture processing and mid-brightness luminance boost. The contrast picture processing appears to add a subtle amount of local contrast to objects in the picture that I view as an improvement. The mid-brightness luminace boost adds some shine to the image but ultimately it does alter the original luminance profile and can compress the dynamic range of the top half luminance of the picture.

After noticing this I decided to try to limit the mid-brightness luminance boost by setting Gamma and the RGB Offset in White Balance to negative values and it worked. You get the picture enhancements without all of the extra brightness. It works for both SDR and HDR. In HDR it also appears to apply other picture processing by scene and adding an appropriate boost to luminance and colors. Or it could be the same processing but more noticeable because of the larger dynamic range it has to work with. It also appears to ease banding at times.

I think Dynamic Contrast can be a positive feature when configured to one's tastes.
That's excellent thinking! I'm going to try that as well!
Care to share which Gamma settings you're using and (how many points you deducted from each of) your RGB white balance settings?
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post #36960 of 37002 Old 02-21-2020, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ThaBEN View Post
That's excellent thinking! I'm going to try that as well!
Care to share which Gamma settings you're using and (how many points you deducted from each of) your RGB white balance settings?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59275440

Took the liberty of posting the pertinant link.

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