RUMOR: New Sony announcement in mid to late July - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pac1012 View Post
Perhaps to you and other nerds - said lovingly - but to the uninformed masses or slightly informed like myself there will be sticker shock and perhaps even resentment towards Sony.
Does the car buying public get upset that Ford sells a $400k GT or Chevrolet sells a $100k+ Corvette? I'm not sure why you think a company has to price a technology flagship cheaply.

As I mentioned if it's really 4k nits with no blooming and black blacks, it's not going to look like anything else on the market. So a price 2x an OLED could very well be justified by the performance.
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post #692 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 11:58 AM
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Does the car buying public get upset that Ford sells a $400k GT or Chevrolet sells a $100k+ Corvette? I'm not sure why you think a company has to price a technology flagship cheaply.
A person driving an Altima can understand why a Ford GT costs 10 times as much simply by looking at it. The average TV buyer will see something that "looks the same" as an OLED and scratch their heads at why it costs double.. especially when it's been drilled into their heads for years that OLED is the cream of the crop.

If I sat and tried to tell buddies about nits, perfect blacks, blooming, and artifacting they might kick my ass.
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post #693 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:05 PM
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The average TV buyer will see something that "looks the same" as an OLED and scratch their heads at why it costs double.. especially when it's been drilled into their heads for years that OLED is the cream of the crop.
As I keep saying... It won't look the same. It will look very different. 4k nits with black blacks (if it can really do that) won't look anything like a 600 nit OLED. No one is going to mistake one for the other.
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post #694 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:28 PM
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It all depends on the performance delivered. If it can deliver 4000nits and invisible blacks without blooming, basically giving equivalent performance to a Dolby Vision HDR Reference Monitor, $8k for 65" might be a relative bargain.
Yeah - if your relative is a Saudi prince or name rhymes with Phil Gates.
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post #695 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pac1012 View Post
A person driving an Altima can understand why a Ford GT costs 10 times as much simply by looking at it. The average TV buyer will see something that "looks the same" as an OLED and scratch their heads at why it costs double.. especially when it's been drilled into their heads for years that OLED is the cream of the crop.

If I sat and tried to tell buddies about nits, perfect blacks, blooming, and artifacting they might kick my ass.


I'm sorry the average tv buyer has no clue of technology all they know is a flat panel they see my local "Big Screen Store" advertise a Samsung 65" for $899 and in their heads anything more than that isn't worth it. It's just us that peruse specs and torture ourselves with slides and debating pros and cons.

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post #696 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:29 PM
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Do you think LCD and or OLED are as good as plasma or CRT for motion? If your answer is no, there is a problem with motion. If you your answer is yes, you can't perceive the difference between good motion and problematic motion. This is not meant to start an argument. It seems MOST people say they can't detect the motion issue with new TVs over plasma or CRT. I'm sensitive to it but not nearly as my best friend - he gets motion sick watching LCDs (yes even if you turn off motion "enhancement" and are watching a good source such as a BD movie on an oppo). He still has his Mits RP CRT for that reason. I have a Sony LCD because I felt the motion was better than the Samsung or last years OLED by a significant amount but it still doesn't compete with my old Panasonic plasma. I can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle of wine and a $500 bottle of wine but I'm not posting on the internet telling people they taste the same.
Video memory is notoriously unreliable. There is a difference between the motion on the plasma I owned a few years ago versus OLED, but I can't describe it to any reliable degree. Motion perception is still subjective as the shootout proved, and plasma motion was not without its artifacts either. It came down to whether you perceived them or not (sound familiar?).
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post #697 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:34 PM
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Video memory is notoriously unreliable. There is a difference between the motion on the plasma I owned a few years ago versus OLED, but I can't describe it to any reliable degree. Motion perception is still subjective as the shootout proved, and plasma motion was not without its artifacts either. It came down to whether you perceived them or not (sound familiar?).
Sure - and it seems like you can't perceive them based on your statement that there were no issues with OLED motion. If you take my example (I can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle of wine and a $500 bottle of wine) - but I'm not stating to others as fact that there is NO difference or that most people won't be able to tell the difference. You aren't the first to make a similar statement on this forum but I wish it was a sticky - that you can say you can't see judder on a tv or you can't tell the difference between a CRT's motion and a OLED's motion but please stop framing it as if it is an established fact that there is no difference.
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post #698 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:36 PM
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Yeah - if your relative is a Saudi prince or name rhymes with Phil Gates.
How much are the other 65" 4000 nit UHD HDR displays on the market?
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post #699 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:40 PM
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Sure - and it seems like you can't perceive them based on your statement that there were no issues with OLED motion. If you take my example (I can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle of wine and a $500 bottle of wine) - but I'm not stating to others as fact that there is NO difference or that most people won't be able to tell the difference. You aren't the first to make a similar statement on this forum but I wish it was a sticky - that you can say you can't see judder on a tv or you can't tell the difference between a CRT's motion and a OLED's motion but please stop framing it as if it is an established fact that there is no difference.
First, they don't make plasmas or CRTs anymore. Second, video memory is unreliable. I don't have a CRT or plasma in the household to compare (there hasn't been a plasma here since 2014), so please don't try to belittle my perception of motion. What's funny is that you ignore that 24 fps is inherently juddery. Once you get accustomed to using mild amounts of frame interpolation, even filmic motion judder can be distracting as your brain adjusts to it. Acclimatizing to different motion driving is another subjective aspect you conveniently overlook.

You can try to pin this on me all day long, but the shootout results speak for themselves. Also, petitioning the industry to move to 60 fps would be more useful than constantly waiting for the unicorn to arrive that will mimic the motion of dated display techs.
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post #700 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:41 PM
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Looking forward to seeing the new TVs. Hopefully my local Best Buy's will carry them.

It's pointless to argue if it's better than OLED until you've actually seen them side by side. I'm sure once they're available for viewing, there will plenty to argue about.

If it's clearly better than a 940c, Sony will have a real winner.
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post #701 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Again, video memory is unreliable. I don't have a CRT or plasma in the household to compare (there hasn't been a plasma here since 2014), so please don't try to belittle my perception of motion. What's funny is that you ignore that 24 fps is inherently juddery. Once you get accustomed to using mild amounts of frame interpolation, even filmic motion judder can be distracting. Acclimatizing to different motion driving is another aspect you conveniently overlook.

You can try to pin this on me all day long, but the shootout results speak for themselves.
I assure you I am not trying to belittle it in any way. I stated my own palette is not sophisticated enough to perceive things. I can state I'd much rather higher FPS. If you looked at my gaming environment higher fps is extremely important to me as well. You are correct, people can become accustomed to bad motion given time. And as I said you were not the first to post a similar statement so I'm not isolating you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they should have a Panasonic 60 or similar at the shootout under each TV and have it turned on during the motion shootout. I think the scores would be more like 3 or 3.5 for the LCD and OLED at that point which would finally give the current TV manufacturers some incentive to make motion as high of a priority as TVs laced with black holes. While blacks and contrast help make a great picture - I'm watching action movies and sports not static representations of a Monet so I want motion to be a higher priority in the next shootout with a better frame of reference because as you say memory may not be great. I happen to have about a 5 second delay between my living room TV and my plasma TV so I can actually do a pretty good comparison. I had both in the same room at one point so I didn't have to use my memory.

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post #702 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 12:54 PM
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How much are the other 65" 4000 nit UHD HDR displays on the market?
I don't know, none of my relatives can afford one.
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post #703 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 01:10 PM
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I'm sorry the average tv buyer has no clue of technology all they know is a flat panel they see my local "Big Screen Store" advertise a Samsung 65" for $899 and in their heads anything more than that isn't worth it. It's just us that peruse specs and torture ourselves with slides and debating pros and cons.
Yes, that's my point.
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post #704 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 03:09 PM
 
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finally heard from my source here in SF, decent chance i could be one of his guests for a viewing tomorrow. again though, NDA folks.

@Carlos_E , there's a Manhattan viewing early next week if you're not already aware. not sure if you're browsing here though..

have a good weekend all.
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post #705 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 03:34 PM
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Not sure why you guys think the tv will be astronomical in price.

It's already been confirmed that you can preorder the tv in Europe for 4999 and that's with 21% vat tax added in.
The TV the guys hope we will see might not be the same as the TV one can preorder. If it is half the price of what folks expect it will costs it also might have half the specs.... Why even preorder a TV we know very little about?? All we have is rumors. Specs??? Even the R series had specs.
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post #706 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 03:38 PM
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What's the price for the 75"?

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post #707 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 04:40 PM
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finally heard from my source here in SF, decent chance i could be one of his guests for a viewing tomorrow. again though, NDA folks.

@Carlos_E , there's a Manhattan viewing early next week if you're not already aware. not sure if you're browsing here though..

have a good weekend all.


I wonder if you can still comment on things such as:


"I am no longer interested in this tv"

"I would purchase this tv over an oled"


"I would choose oled over the zd9".


NDA is stupid anyways. The more buzz and positive talk there is from seeing the tv, the more sales and potential buyers you attract.
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post #708 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 05:39 PM
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Well I am tired of the hype, ready for the unit. Then another Sony well trump the rest.

I will have a 65" of they make it for sure...

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Not sure why you guys think the tv will be astronomical in price.

It's already been confirmed that you can preorder the tv in Europe for 4999 and that's with 21% vat tax added in.
thats 5500$ on a presale my guess is thats not normal cost they are just trying to move units. im guessing 7000$ retail
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post #710 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 07:30 PM
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Speculation, only if I had a nickel every time I read this...

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post #711 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 07:59 PM
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I was really hoping they'd announce a fantastic new 85" today. Initial prices usually are close to MSRP but typically drop about 25% within 4 months unless there is a shortage.
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I'll take a 75...
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post #713 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pac1012 View Post
A person driving an Altima can understand why a Ford GT costs 10 times as much simply by looking at it. The average TV buyer will see something that "looks the same" as an OLED and scratch their heads at why it costs double.. especially when it's been drilled into their heads for years that OLED is the cream of the crop.

If I sat and tried to tell buddies about nits, perfect blacks, blooming, and artifacting they might kick my ass.
This product isn't aimed at the masses. I would say that Sony are planning to grab the large gap in the market that OLED have left on screen sizes above 65".

If people want the best they will pay for it - that holds true in any line of business.
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post #714 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 09:51 PM
 
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I was really hoping they'd announce a fantastic new 85" today. Initial prices usually are close to MSRP but typically drop about 25% within 4 months unless there is a shortage.
Are we sure there is an 85" model? I mean that was the size of the demo model they showed at CES, but it looks like the only model numbers poppimg up are for a 65" 75" and 100" model.
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post #715 of 1429 Old 07-15-2016, 10:49 PM
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Are we sure there is an 85" model? I mean that was the size of the demo model they showed at CES, but it looks like the only model numbers poppimg up are for a 65" 75" and 100" model.
As far as I'm concerned we don't know if they are releasing a new discman instead of a TV. All it is rumors of a rumored release of something new. Some people are saying that they have really high confidence that they got the scoop from the horse's mouth and some people who think that is highly unlikely. I'd love for it to be a freakin' perfect 85" TV for $10K. Some think if it is 85" it would probably be about 35K. Then there is the debate - if they sold a 4000 nit TV for $100 million dollars they'd be able to sell it since it is an empty niche and others who think even a $20,000 TV is not going to sell in a quantity to justify production. I consider it something doo economics. Voodoo economics.


The most credible rumor so far is as follows: My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
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lol boe you are not getting it for 10k untill near end of life and they are trying to just push them off..
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post #717 of 1429 Old 07-16-2016, 12:39 AM
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lol boe you are not getting it for 10k untill near end of life and they are trying to just push them off..
So, you believe there will be an 85" model, regardless of price ?
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post #718 of 1429 Old 07-16-2016, 01:59 AM
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So, you believe there will be an 85" model, regardless of price ?
im just saying hes asking to much for to little
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post #719 of 1429 Old 07-16-2016, 04:15 AM
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As far as I'm concerned we don't know if they are releasing a new discman instead of a TV. All it is rumors of a rumored release of something new. Some people are saying that they have really high confidence that they got the scoop from the horse's mouth and some people who think that is highly unlikely. I'd love for it to be a freakin' perfect 85" TV for $10K. Some think if it is 85" it would probably be about 35K. Then there is the debate - if they sold a 4000 nit TV for $100 million dollars they'd be able to sell it since it is an empty niche and others who think even a $20,000 TV is not going to sell in a quantity to justify production. I consider it something doo economics. Voodoo economics.


The most credible rumor so far is as follows: My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
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post #720 of 1429 Old 07-16-2016, 05:55 AM
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im just saying hes asking to much for to little
I don't really think it will be that price but that is what I'd like. The JS9500 88" is available new for as low as $10,000.
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