Official 2016 Samsung KS9800 Owner's Thread - Page 204 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6091 of 6178 Old 11-03-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Movie Mode HDR for USB Input 100% with 10% window on my set is 1400 HDMI is 1644 - don't know why you're at 602 ?
This is Kevin Miller's response.... Coincidentally I asked him very target questions...Again, according to KC (paraphrasing)....

(1) there should be no (practically zero) difference between inputs USB and HDMI from a calibrated settings perspective.

(2) the fact that my particular unit is at 602 nits max is attributable to the very wide range of plus/minus NIT a display can be from manufacturer spec. In my case it is somewhat moot because the overwhelming majority of material I watch is std movie. Sure, I'd love those extra NITS just to have them, but there isn't anything I can do. If your getting 1400/1644, are you using a high-end colorimeter and such a difference between inputs is also suspect to accuracy.
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post #6092 of 6178 Old 11-03-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
@kbyakko

Kevin performed a "follow the PQ curve" (my term) comparison in HDR mode with everything at default except grey scale. A setting of Gamma 0 is better than -1 and +1. I personally witnessed the resulting line against the curve as displayed on his Calman 2019 R2 software, and 0 was/is closest to the curve. Hope that helps (i.e. answers your inquiry).
Fair enough. I appreciate you asking. I guess that shows how different our sets can be. The luminance can be around 20% higher than it should be on my set when Gamma is set to 0. I guess you always gotta put a meter on it to know for sure. Thanks.

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post #6093 of 6178 Old 11-03-2019, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
This is Kevin Miller's response.... Coincidentally I asked him very target questions...Again, according to KC (paraphrasing)....

(1) there should be no (practically zero) difference between inputs USB and HDMI from a calibrated settings perspective.

(2) the fact that my particular unit is at 602 nits max is attributable to the very wide range of plus/minus NIT a display can be from manufacturer spec. In my case it is somewhat moot because the overwhelming majority of material I watch is std movie. Sure, I'd love those extra NITS just to have them, but there isn't anything I can do. If your getting 1400/1644, are you using a high-end colorimeter and such a difference between inputs is also suspect to accuracy.
I use the i1Pro 2 Spectro for my HDR settings/readings since it has a higher NIT tolerance than the i1Display Pro, plus more accurate.
I use the same Masciola HDR patterns on a DVD for HDMI and from the Samsung UHD Video Pack for USB.
I can't see where USB and HDMI HDR readings would be the same because of different electronic paths.

I also watch mostly SDR video material and 100% with 100% window reads around 250 Nits. Will check tonight what it is currently..

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post #6094 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 04:22 AM
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@kbyakko
You're welcome.

@p5browne
I have no reason to doubt you are doing calibration measurements correctly and have good gear to do it. I get what you're saying about different electronic paths. I think that theoretically one could argue HDMI 1, HDMI 2 and HDMI 3 also use a different electronic path at some level, and you wouldn't expect different results among the three, true?. I'm only relaying what KM has told me and the measurements I'm getting.

***
Another question. I need to clean my screen with some kind of solvent to get what I'll call a light film of "kitchen grease" off the screen. What to use (isopropyl alcohol, vinegar, etc. mixed with water?) and how to do this? If using a microcloth that will merely spread the offending film on the screen. Thanks.
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post #6095 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
@kbyakko
You're welcome.

@p5browne
I have no reason to doubt you are doing calibration measurements correctly and have good gear to do it. I get what you're saying about different electronic paths. I think that theoretically one could argue HDMI 1, HDMI 2 and HDMI 3 also use a different electronic path at some level, and you wouldn't expect different results among the three, true?. I'm only relaying what KM has told me and the measurements I'm getting.

***
Another question. I need to clean my screen with some kind of solvent to get what I'll call a light film of "kitchen grease" off the screen. What to use (isopropyl alcohol, vinegar, etc. mixed with water?) and how to do this? If using a microcloth that will merely spread the offending film on the screen. Thanks.
Specs from the the KS9800 re HDR:

HDR (High Dynamic Range)
HDR1000

In other words, your set should be getting greater than the 1000 Nits
Are you sure Kevin is reading the right spec for Nits, and not FL ?

Very slight differences between HDMI Inputs.

My USB/Apps HDR Nits actually came up in my scans last night to 1612 Nits. SDR was 262.64 (FW update ?)

While there last night, did the USB/Apps HDR calibrations:

2 Point 5 0 9 -2 0 0 Gamma: 0

Red: 27 2 0 Green: 1 34 5 Blue: 5 2 30 Yellow: 33 29 0 Cyan: 8 32 22 Magenta: 22 0 18
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post #6096 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Specs from the the KS9800 re HDR:

HDR (High Dynamic Range)
HDR1000

In other words, your set should be getting greater than the 1000 Nits
Are you sure Kevin is reading the right spec for Nits, and not FL ?

Very slight differences between HDMI Inputs.

My USB/Apps HDR Nits actually came up in my scans last night to 1612 Nits. SDR was 262.64 (FW update ?)

While there last night, did the USB/Apps HDR calibrations:

2 Point 5 0 9 -2 0 0 Gamma: 0

Red: 27 2 0 Green: 1 34 5 Blue: 5 2 30 Yellow: 33 29 0 Cyan: 8 32 22 Magenta: 22 0 18
Can't be positive of what KM is reading but I think he converted (multiplied) lamberts by something like 1.5. He did some kind of math. I'm of the opinion the calman software didn't indicate nits but some other value that Kevin converted. I told him the value was low for my set and he agreed but stated it's still considered normal from what he's seen in the field.

Also in my case the contrast is at 86. It was originally (first calibration) by Kevin at 100 but I told him the spears and munsil disk revealed clipping so I lowered to 86. he said that to was ok. My point though is that maybe a higher contrast would produce some more nits.

Any recommendation regarding screen cleaning solvents?
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post #6097 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post

Any recommendation regarding screen cleaning solvents?
VERY SLIGHTLY moisten 1/2 the fiber cloth that came with the set. May be half of it, with the other half to wipe dry
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post #6098 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
This is Kevin Miller's response.... Coincidentally I asked him very target questions...Again, according to KC (paraphrasing)....

(1) there should be no (practically zero) difference between inputs USB and HDMI from a calibrated settings perspective.

(2) the fact that my particular unit is at 602 nits max is attributable to the very wide range of plus/minus NIT a display can be from manufacturer spec. In my case it is somewhat moot because the overwhelming majority of material I watch is std movie. Sure, I'd love those extra NITS just to have them, but there isn't anything I can do. If your getting 1400/1644, are you using a high-end colorimeter and such a difference between inputs is also suspect to accuracy.
If your TV is maxing around 600 nits peak then something on your TV is broken... Or Kevin did a terrible job. The lowest measurements I've seen with a Ks9800 is 1150 nits after calibration and as high as 1800 nits.

Do you by chance have a copy of the tvs measured numbers from Kevin?
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post #6099 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
VERY SLIGHTLY moisten 1/2 the fiber cloth that came with the set. May be half of it, with the other half to wipe dry
Water alone isn't/wasn't good enough in my case. After further consultation with others and some further do diligence on my part, I used 50/50 white vinegar and water.

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post #6100 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
If your TV is maxing around 600 nits peak then something on your TV is broken... Or Kevin did a terrible job. The lowest measurements I've seen with a Ks9800 is 1150 nits after calibration and as high as 1800 nits.

Do you by chance have a copy of the tvs measured numbers from Kevin?
I'd have to think something is broken then.

Yes, I have a copy of the measurements. I've uploaded the HDR pdf he left me. If you need/want the white balance numbers and color space I have that separate.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Movie-HDR - Copy.pdf (449.7 KB, 12 views)
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post #6101 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
Water alone isn't/wasn't good enough in my case. After further consultation with others and some further do diligence on my part, I used 50/50 white vinegar and water.
https://www.wikihow.com/Clean-a-Flat-Screen-TV
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post #6102 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
I'd have to think something is broken then.

Yes, I have a copy of the measurements. I've uploaded the HDR pdf he left me. If you need/want the white balance numbers and color space I have that separate.
Which one of these enclosed files is suppose to be the right one. By date, they're all older.

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post #6103 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Which one of these enclosed files is suppose to be the right one. By date, they're all older.
I have no idea what you're asking. I attached a pdf of the HDR calibration. The movie and standard pdfs I didn't attach and have significant more detail (perhaps the numbers ray0414 is asking for) but that has some personal data in those files as well so I'll have to see about removing it before I upload.

When you @p5browne and @ray0414 are getting over 1000 NITS, is that HDR spawned out of movie mode or standard mode? in my case HDR10 is spawned out of movie mode.

EDIT: I'm attaching the other pdf's with the numbers. I think this is what Ray was asking for
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Standard-Day.pdf (227.4 KB, 9 views)
File Type: pdf Movie-SDR.pdf (227.5 KB, 7 views)

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post #6104 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
If your TV is maxing around 600 nits peak then something on your TV is broken... Or Kevin did a terrible job. The lowest measurements I've seen with a Ks9800 is 1150 nits after calibration and as high as 1800 nits.

Do you by chance have a copy of the tvs measured numbers from Kevin?
Attached. By all means, please opine.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Movie-SDR.pdf (227.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: pdf Standard-Day.pdf (227.4 KB, 9 views)
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post #6105 of 6178 Old 11-04-2019, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Which one of these enclosed files is suppose to be the right one. By date, they're all older.
Duh - Senior's moment - I was reading the list in the folder it was going to save in - late in a tough long day !

Could not see the Nit number anywhere. Look for cd/m2 : (This is the Nit level)

Note: for a good calibration, all values should be less than 3. All my setting values I post, are around 0.2 to 0.4 on my set..

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post #6106 of 6178 Old 11-05-2019, 04:37 AM
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Duh - Senior's moment - I was reading the list in the folder it was going to save in - late in a tough long day !

Could not see the Nit number anywhere. Look for cd/m2 : (This is the Nit level)

Note: for a good calibration, all values should be less than 3. All my setting values I post, are around 0.2 to 0.4 on my set..
I don't believe the NIT numbers are in his (perhaps sparse) pdf output. In the case of the NITS, I asked him during the calibration. he read from his software and applied some kind of math conversion. I shall email him again and ask how he calculated.
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@ray0414

Hi Ray. have you had a chance to look at the data you asked me to provide? I'm interested in your opinion.

According to Keven, he uses "fL." as his brightness metric and says 1 fL=3.42 Nits.

Thanks.
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post #6108 of 6178 Old 11-05-2019, 07:41 AM
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@ray0414

Hi Ray. have you had a chance to look at the data you asked me to provide? I'm interested in your opinion.

According to Keven, he uses "fL." as his brightness metric and says 1 fL=3.42 Nits.

Thanks.
cd/m2 : (This is the Nit level)
This is right on some of the calibration work flows, and no math should be required.

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post #6109 of 6178 Old 11-05-2019, 09:27 AM
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cd/m2 : (This is the Nit level)
This is right on some of the calibration work flows, and no math should be required.
I think it was in his workflow, but not output on the calman reports. I do know that Kevin didn't just read me the numbers off his screen but multiplied a number on his screen by some value. Probably the fl calculation. If you want to know more, by all means you can contact Kevin yourself and ask : [email protected]

On a side note but related, my HDR contrast is set at 95 and in the face of all these NITS questions has asked me to raise it to 100 which is where he says it should be in the case of HDR. He claims that will increase the NITS but isn't sure by how much. he may remeasure at some point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
I think it was in his workflow, but not output on the calman reports. I do know that Kevin didn't just read me the numbers off his screen but multiplied a number on his screen by some value. Probably the fl calculation. If you want to know more, by all means you can contact Kevin yourself and ask : [email protected]

On a side note but related, my HDR contrast is set at 95 and in the face of all these NITS questions has asked me to raise it to 100 which is where he says it should be in the case of HDR. He claims that will increase the NITS but isn't sure by how much. he may remeasure at some point.
Now that your set has been calibrated, this may clear up the HDR problem and you can now run at Contrast of 100.

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New FW

New FW was possibly to put Disney + App on our sets ?

7 days Free Trial and $8.99 CA a month after. Credit Card needed to apply.
Wife not happy it's not available on her SEK-3500U, and it's not likely I'll get it.

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post #6112 of 6178 Old 11-14-2019, 05:13 PM
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New FW was possibly to put Disney + App on our sets ?

7 days Free Trial and $8.99 CA a month after. Credit Card needed to apply.
Wife not happy it's not available on her SEK-3500U, and it's not likely I'll get it.

If so it worked as Disney+ streams fine on my set.

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New FW was possibly to put Disney + App on our sets ?

7 days Free Trial and $8.99 CA a month after. Credit Card needed to apply.
Wife not happy it's not available on her SEK-3500U, and it's not likely I'll get it.
Get a $20 roku premiere for all your 4K/HDR/Atmos content this holiday season. I got one last year... best 20 bucks I ever spent.

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post #6114 of 6178 Old 11-19-2019, 08:21 PM
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Is it me, or has the KS9800 color and contrast improved ?

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post #6115 of 6178 Old 11-20-2019, 03:19 PM
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Is it me, or has the KS9800 color and contrast improved ?
What I am finding is the Movie Mode has improved to where it is better than HDR+ for most shows. Also skin tones are much more natural looking.
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post #6116 of 6178 Old 11-20-2019, 03:59 PM
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What I am finding is the Movie Mode has improved to where it is better than HDR+ for most shows. Also skin tones are much more natural looking.
HDR+ was never better than Movie mode, its brighter yes but always clips bright highlights and crushes blacks. Still, Standard is where its at.
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post #6117 of 6178 Old 11-20-2019, 10:25 PM
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Anyone's xbox not doing ultralow latency mode?.. Since latest update I have to enable low latency mode manually now..
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post #6118 of 6178 Old 11-21-2019, 04:30 AM
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Exclamation Important Calibration Question

I'm asking these questions seriously, to those knowledgeable in doing calibrations (whether on their own or via someone else).


1) Is it correct that the colorimeter itself comes into direct contact with the screen? This would be the rubber gasket end of the camera lens.

2) Can the rubber gasket end of the colorimeter "melt" or otherwise leave a residue (round mark the size and shape of the gasket) as a result of the tv screen being warm enough to do so?

3) If a residue is left, is it "more than stubborn" to remove?

Last edited by hal250; 11-21-2019 at 04:33 AM.
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post #6119 of 6178 Old 11-21-2019, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
I'm asking these questions seriously, to those knowledgeable in doing calibrations (whether on their own or via someone else).


1) Is it correct that the colorimeter itself comes into direct contact with the screen? This would be the rubber gasket end of the camera lens.

2) Can the rubber gasket end of the colorimeter "melt" or otherwise leave a residue (round mark the size and shape of the gasket) as a result of the tv screen being warm enough to do so?

3) If a residue is left, is it "more than stubborn" to remove?
I usually place mine very close to the screen without touching it. I don't know which is the correct way. I have had it in contact with the screen in the past and there was never any left over residue.

I don't know if the material will melt but I imagine the tv would have to get really hot for that to happen. I've never noticed the tv getting too hot to touch after it being on all day.
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post #6120 of 6178 Old 11-21-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
I'm asking these questions seriously, to those knowledgeable in doing calibrations (whether on their own or via someone else).


1) Is it correct that the colorimeter itself comes into direct contact with the screen? This would be the rubber gasket end of the camera lens.

2) Can the rubber gasket end of the colorimeter "melt" or otherwise leave a residue (round mark the size and shape of the gasket) as a result of the tv screen being warm enough to do so?

3) If a residue is left, is it "more than stubborn" to remove?
Off the screen is the better method.
# 1 On screen covers a very tiny portion of the screen being calibrated, and you can never be quite sure you landed on the exact same spot, especially if profiling a spectro to a colormeter.
# 2 Off screen covers a much wider area and will give a bigger, better averaged picture to the meter to optimize.
# 3 On screen can cause heat issues, although not as much as other types of panels.

UN65KS9800 - Mine
QN49Q70R / UN65HU9000 + SEK-3500U / UN75JU7100 / UN55HU7250 with SEK-3500U in UJS9000 Mod Mode / UN40J5200AF / HiSense 40H5507 - Wife's
UN55NU8000 X 2 - my 2 kids families (or should I say adults?)

Last edited by p5browne; 11-21-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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