Official 2016 Vizio M-Series Owner's Thread - Page 234 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6991 of 10266 Old 04-27-2017, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Disney WOW and / or Spears & Munsil

NOTES: This is an entirely new workflow approach. Thanks to @thecool est and @shoman94 for their suggestions and expertise. Part of learning how to calibrate is knowing what settings to change depending on which calibration page you are working in during the process. There were times in the past where I was changing settings before they should be changed. It made the calibration process a bit of an ordeal as some things looked great and others - not so great. With my newfound knowledge, I finally got great color balance, a decent saturation sweep result and the color matching is excellent; which = color accuracy. Flesh tones are really great now. PQ is the bomb!

As part of the new workflow, I left ALZ ( Active LED Zones ) on through the entire process except for setting peak brightness ( backlight ). This approach took longer to do because I had to wait for the zones to respond and the settings numbers on the top of the screen to disappear; but the results are much better. Also, I used a 10% window with the pattern generator.

One thing you will notice is that color is upped to 56, brightness to 58, and contrast is lowered to 41. There is a combination of factors that went into the "why" I chose those settings; including the fact that the colors were all undersaturated at the 50 setting with the saturation sweep test. So I went back and turned up the color a bit and went from there. One of the benefits is that I didn't have to force things in the color tuner to get better color balance, luminance, saturation. I made relatively small adjustments in the color tuner. The 11 point settings are also pretty mellow except for 10% and 20% and taming things in the 60% to 70% range. Because of all that, these settings should look a least very good on most sets even accounting for variances.

CalMan screenshots attached. The color checker looks awesome. I'm really happy about that because in the past I hated that chart!

M70-D3 Calibration
FW: 3.2.8.3

Start with Calibrated

Basic Settings:
Backlight: 50
Brightness: 58
Contrast: 41
Color: 56
Sharpness: 2* ( *slight edge enhancement for low quality signal; i.e. 1080i/720p/cable/satellite )
Tint: 0
Color Temp: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Reduce Judder: 1 - 2 ( helps with 3:2 motion issues without introducing SOE )
Reduce Motion Blur: 0
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off* ( Set this to Low for crappy signal quality; i.e. same reasons as above ) - Set to “Off” for 1080P/4K/Blu-ray, etc.
Game Low Latency: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

Color Tuner:
Primary Color Enabled: Turn all to On ( default )
Hue: R: 2, G: -13, B: 2, C: 2, M: -2, Y: 5
Sat: R: -9, G: -5, B: -6, C: -2, M: -6, Y: 0
Brt: R: 0, G: 2, B: 8, C: -6, M: 8, Y: -2
Ofs: R: -1, G: 0, B: 3
Gain: R: 0, G: 9, B: -13

11 Point:
5%: No change - zeros
10%: R: -22, G: -22, B: -22
20%: R: -16, G: -10, B: -12
30%: R: -10, G: -7, B: -5
40%: R: -6, G: -7, B: -8
50%: R: -7, G: -4, B: -10
60%: R: -17, G: -13, B: -23
70%: R: -4, G: -12, B: -22
80%: R: -1, G: 0, B: 3
90%: R: 0, G: 0, B: -6
100%: R: 2, G: 0, B: 4
OK, so I'll just say it: I'm not sure why you take the time to do all this (incredibly awesome work, BTW) as it seems like almost every individual title and type of source needs it's own tweaking... I'm assuming this is specifically for a 4k Blu Ray player as that is what the calibration video runs off of? Well, at least 11 point should be applicable across any source/title but the rest can vary a lot it seems like. Also, is Tint a separate tested setting or is left there and you calibrate around it? I see other professional calibrations that sometimes show to use -3 and others that also remain at 0. I tried -3 for the heck of it after seeing it either Rtings or CNET calibration settings and it seemed to really help and you saw another one on here try it and agree... Again, thanks for all your work on this!

Last edited by danbfree; 04-27-2017 at 09:43 PM.
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post #6992 of 10266 Old 04-27-2017, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@sonoftumble

The color checker and saturations do look fine, but I'm not sure why would you drop contrast and up brightness so much. You pretty much killed the dynamic range of your display.
I agree. Makes me think that PC levels were being used and those were adjusted to Video levels.

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post #6993 of 10266 Old 04-27-2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
OK, so I'll just say it: I'm not sure why you take the time to do all this (incredibly awesome work, BTW) as it seems like almost every individual title and type of source needs it's own tweaking... I'm assuming this is specifically for a 4k Blu Ray player as that is what the calibration video runs off of? Well, at least 11 point should be applicable across any source/title but the rest can vary a lot it seems like. Also, is Tint a separate tested setting or is left there and you calibrate around it? I see other professional calibrations that sometimes show to use -3 and others that also remain at 0. I tried -3 for the heck of it after seeing it either Rtings or CNET calibration settings and it seemed to really help and you saw another one on here try it and agree... Again, thanks for all your work on this!
Don't forget that the -3 tint setting makes your TV blurry! ( LOL ) Thank you for trying out my settings. I enjoy sharing, and I enjoy learning new ways to get the most out of my TV. If the settings work for others then that's awesome. If not, I won't be offended as I understand that there are a ton of variables.

These settings are for any SDR source ( 2K or 4K ). [ When I have more time, I'm going to tackle HDR!?!??#& ]

I have also noticed other calibrators setting the tint to something other than 0, but there are just as many that leave it at 0. I'm not sure why. In my ISF training class, they were pretty much of the opinion to leave it at 0. The CNET calibration was a short cut calibration as the the reviewer didn't want to mess with the color tuner. This was before Vizio improved the SmartCast app so that we now have scrolling numbers in the settings pages!!! The sliders were a PIA.

I keep the tint ( hue ) set at 0, because the tint setting is global, and it impacts all the colors whether they are reading correctly or not. I then use the color tuner with the CMS and Saturation Sweeps pages in CalMan to read and then adjust the hue for each primary and secondary color individually. I will focus on, and then adjust the problem colors and leave the others alone. In the last calibration session, I had hue issues with blue and magenta, and I didn't really touch the other colors' hue settings.

There's the conundrum: My panel's problem colors are probably a bit different than your panel's problem colors., so setting the tint to -3 might be better for you. First world problems!
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post #6994 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I agree. Makes me think that PC levels were being used and those were adjusted to Video levels.
Huh? I am never politically correct. I refuse to stoop to PC levels!!

Seriously, though - when I started this most recent calibration the first thing I did was perform a full factory reset. I then set the PM to Calibrated. I turned off all the processing stuff as well as ALZ, and did the peak luminance setting and then turned on ALZ, and did the rest of the ISF workflow. As I mentioned earlier, with ALZ off, the brightness and contrast settings were very close to default. With ALZ on, I had to boost brightness, and lower contrast to eliminate clipping errors. Gamma was set to 2.2 but was reading closer to 2.3. I'm using a very recently re-certified Spectracal C6 meter, Murideo SIX G generator plugged into HDMI1, and CalMan 5 Pro. I used a 10% window, and closed all the blinds in the room which makes it a pretty dark room.

The only thing different is that with FW 3.2.8.3, I cannot adjust the color tuner with a 4K signal ( bug - I think - it wasn't an issue with 3.0.14.0 ), so I had to set my generator to 1080P patterns. However, I don't think that should matter.

So what am I missing? Should I keep ALZ off until I've finished with brightness and contrast? This newb is open to any recommendations. I feel like I'm starting to get a bit of a handle on this stuff.

Last edited by sonoftumble; 04-28-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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post #6995 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
I know it is a little odd. The two patterns I use for checking white and black levels looked best with those settings. Maybe I should have had ALZ off when I set those? With ALZ off, they normally look best with the default settings; i.e. 50 brightness and 50 contrast. Backlight setting too high? I can run it again with ALZ off. Any suggestions are welcome.
I use near white and near black patterns to set contrast and brightness. From my experience with both of my M series, there's no need to change either one of them from default.

If your display was set to Color Space: Auto, but your PC was configured to output RGB level signal (what some mean by "PC") you'll have a really messed up result. I'm pretty sure there's also a setting in CalMAN you may need to configure to make sure that the color space it uses is the correct one.

HDR is actually "simpler" in terms of concept. You don't have a gamma curve to worry about anymore, all you have is luminosity levels. The rest is similar.

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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
OK, so I'll just say it: I'm not sure why you take the time to do all this (incredibly awesome work, BTW) as it seems like almost every individual title and type of source needs it's own tweaking...
For me the answer to your question is very simple: I can be OCD about things sometimes, and then I get obsessed for a while that I have to make thing exactly how they are supposed to be.
You calibrate to make your display look as close as possible to a calibrated mastering display, on which the content was produced.
I don't really know what you mean by every title needs its own settings. It's really rare for me to start playing with settings when I watch TV, Shows or Movies. And when I watch something like The Expanses, which has this blueish tint, I know that it's not my TV\display, but it's just the way it was meant to look.
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Last edited by The Coolest; 04-28-2017 at 04:16 AM.
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post #6996 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 04:24 AM
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Oh boy.

So I have the 3.2.8.3 beta, and I've started to notice some serious clouding/bleeding in the corners. I feel like it's new, as this replacement shipped with the current live firmware, but maybe I just didn't notice it. Has a factory reset helped any of you who have had PQ issues related to firmware?

Also, no remote 😣 Help me, @mattmc rae, you're my only hope!

I'll run a few more tests, as it really just became noticeable last night during LaLa Land - a wonderful film, btw. It's letterboxed and looked like I was looking at a picture in a scrapbook where the corners are under white tabs. Make sense?

Again, more tests are needed, but man oh man, is this frustrating.



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Last edited by secondhand1; 04-28-2017 at 04:31 AM.
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post #6997 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Disney WOW and / or Spears & Munsil

NOTES: This is an entirely new workflow approach. Thanks to @thecool est and @shoman94 for their suggestions and expertise. Part of learning how to calibrate is knowing what settings to change depending on which calibration page you are working in during the process. There were times in the past where I was changing settings before they should be changed. It made the calibration process a bit of an ordeal as some things looked great and others - not so great. With my newfound knowledge, I finally got great color balance, a decent saturation sweep result and the color matching is excellent; which = color accuracy. Flesh tones are really great now. PQ is the bomb!

As part of the new workflow, I left ALZ ( Active LED Zones ) on through the entire process except for setting peak brightness ( backlight ). This approach took longer to do because I had to wait for the zones to respond and the settings numbers on the top of the screen to disappear; but the results are much better. Also, I used a 10% window with the pattern generator.

One thing you will notice is that color is upped to 56, brightness to 58, and contrast is lowered to 41. There is a combination of factors that went into the "why" I chose those settings; including the fact that the colors were all undersaturated at the 50 setting with the saturation sweep test. So I went back and turned up the color a bit and went from there. One of the benefits is that I didn't have to force things in the color tuner to get better color balance, luminance, saturation. I made relatively small adjustments in the color tuner. The 11 point settings are also pretty mellow except for 10% and 20% and taming things in the 60% to 70% range. Because of all that, these settings should look a least very good on most sets even accounting for variances.

CalMan screenshots attached. The color checker looks awesome. I'm really happy about that because in the past I hated that chart!

M70-D3 Calibration
FW: 3.2.8.3

Start with Calibrated

Basic Settings:
Backlight: 50
Brightness: 58
Contrast: 41
Color: 56
Sharpness: 2* ( *slight edge enhancement for low quality signal; i.e. 1080i/720p/cable/satellite )
Tint: 0
Color Temp: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Reduce Judder: 1 - 2 ( helps with 3:2 motion issues without introducing SOE )
Reduce Motion Blur: 0
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off* ( Set this to Low for crappy signal quality; i.e. same reasons as above ) - Set to “Off” for 1080P/4K/Blu-ray, etc.
Game Low Latency: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

Color Tuner:
Primary Color Enabled: Turn all to On ( default )
Hue: R: 2, G: -13, B: 2, C: 2, M: -2, Y: 5
Sat: R: -9, G: -5, B: -6, C: -2, M: -6, Y: 0
Brt: R: 0, G: 2, B: 8, C: -6, M: 8, Y: -2
Ofs: R: -1, G: 0, B: 3
Gain: R: 0, G: 9, B: -13

11 Point:
5%: No change - zeros
10%: R: -22, G: -22, B: -22
20%: R: -16, G: -10, B: -12
30%: R: -10, G: -7, B: -5
40%: R: -6, G: -7, B: -8
50%: R: -7, G: -4, B: -10
60%: R: -17, G: -13, B: -23
70%: R: -4, G: -12, B: -22
80%: R: -1, G: 0, B: 3
90%: R: 0, G: 0, B: -6
100%: R: 2, G: 0, B: 4
Thanks. Gave these settings a shot. While better than regular NORMAL, still a bit too yellow for me and I think I still prefer "Computer" as a base color profile as a default (though I wish that was slightly warmer itself). Anyone have good color settings that improve on Computer (adding a bit more warmth).
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post #6998 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 06:16 AM
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@sonoftumble thanks for the new results. I plugged them in last night and like others noticed the blacks washed to grey. I moved the contrast and brightness back to 50/50 but I still noticed the grey on the letter box when watching the Crown on netflix. Normally that is all black. Then i read up on RGB and it said it was for PC or something so I switched back to AUTO and boom everything looks legit. I'll test more tonight but these colors really pop in different ways and to me they look better than your rev 4. So I'm a happy camper. Thanks for doing this and keep it up!!
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post #6999 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharperweb797 View Post
Thanks. Gave these settings a shot. While better than regular NORMAL, still a bit too yellow for me and I think I still prefer "Computer" as a base color profile as a default (though I wish that was slightly warmer itself). Anyone have good color settings that improve on Computer (adding a bit more warmth).
I doubt you'll find something like that, calibrators target white point D65 (6504K). I never heard about anyone calibrating to something else (unless D65 is simply unachievable on a display, in such a case they would go for the warmest it can get while keeping greyscale balanced and color saturations accurate)
I don't know what color temp Normal is, and it most likely varies from unit to unit, so there would be no reference to shoot for unless one just decided on a random number that sounded good to them.
One thing I can recommend you try is reduce green and blue Gain by a few points and see how it looks to you, it should become warmer.
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post #7000 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
OOOOPS! Set the Color Space to Auto or YYCbCr. I had it listed as RGB in the settings list which was from a previous aborted calibration. My BAD! Should be an instant improvement, and your blacks will be inky again. Also, you can change those without much impact on color. They are really just black level ( brightness ) and white level ( contrast ) adjustments.

I've made the edit in that post.
Correct me if I am wrong. But if you set the color space to YYCbCr, won't that negate 4K with HDR when playing games/movies? RGB is required to get HDR with a 4K display. Or does this not affect it? YYCbCr will force a 2K display while in HDR. At least on my PS4 Pro it does.

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post #7001 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
I don't really know what you mean by every title needs its own settings. It's really rare for me to start playing with settings when I watch TV, Shows or Movies. And when I watch something like The Expanses, which has this blueish tint, I know that it's not my TV\display, but it's just the way it was meant to look.
I have found that the settings I ENJOY can vary based on source and even per title... For example, the Netflix title Daredevil I have to use a contrast of 60-65 just to be able to even really see what's going on. If the director intends me not to be able to see anything, then screw them, I'm going to adjust the picture to a level I can make out the detail I need to see what's going on... That said, I do need to visit that specific title again on the latest firmware, and indeed the picture has seemed to become more consistent on it, but it does seem like the settings can also vary if I Cast it or play through the Shield, especially on previous firmware, I'll experiment more this weekend.

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post #7002 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 07:44 AM
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I have noticed something on my M65-D0 in the last month or so and I am not sure if it is a new behavior or not.

Previously, I think that only the active input would signal to the connected device that there was a display connected.

Now when the Display is turned on, all connected HDMI devices detect that there is a display connected. It has as strange effects on my set up that I am 90% sure I wasn't seeing before. My PC is connected to the Vizio as a secondary display (I only use it for some game, and only use a monitor the rest of the time). The PC makes the new-hardware-connected sound every time the Vizio is turned on. I also have a strange thing where I turn on my Nintendo Switch, which wakes up the Vizio, which activates all the HDMI ports, which wakes up my Nvidia Shield, which uses CEC to change the input to the one that Shield is connected too, instead of the Switch.

Has it always done like this or is it just me?
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post #7003 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
I have found that the settings I ENJOY can vary based on source and even per title... For example, the Netflix title Daredevil I have to use a contrast of 60-65 just to be able to even really see what's going on. If the director intends me not to be able to see anything, then screw them, I'm going to adjust the picture to a level I can make out the detail I need to see what's going on... That said, I do need to visit that specific title again on the latest firmware, and indeed the picture has seemed to become more consistent on it, but it does seem like the settings can also vary if I Cast it or play through the Shield, especially on previous firmware, I'll experiment more this weekend.

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My point was that things look like they do (mostly) due to director's intent (I'm pretty sure this was already discussed, so I won't reopen this discussion again).
And that is what we calibrate for. To watch the content how it was meant to be watched. People who don't care about that can do whatever they want, its their display.
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post #7004 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharperweb797 View Post
Thanks. Gave these settings a shot. While better than regular NORMAL, still a bit too yellow for me and I think I still prefer "Computer" as a base color profile as a default (though I wish that was slightly warmer itself). Anyone have good color settings that improve on Computer (adding a bit more warmth).
First off, I want to thank you for giving them a try and for taking the time to provide me with valuable feedback. My past calibrations attempts were more along the lines of trying to get the "perfect" settings for my panel. This latest attempt is to try and get the picture as close to "perfect" without going crazy on the color tuner. This way my settings might be more useful and enjoyable to more people - even taking into account panel to panel variances.

As far as yellow goes, I think that perhaps you have become accustomed to watching your TV with a "cooler" temperature, i.e. the Computer PM. So, when you watch something using my settings, things look "warmer" than you are used to - maybe too warm for your taste. The "normal" temperature setting gets very close to 6500K, which is the temperature of our sun. One good way to judge that setting is to view content that has a lot of unprocessed outdoor shots. If the temperature/characteristics of the light in outdoor shots looks close to the actual outdoors, then you are looking at an accurate representation on your TV. Without a meter, this is all subjective, and personal preference is important.

Question: If you set your TV to Calibrated PM and reset the color tuner, do you still see too much yellow? I'm trying to determine if it's the color temp setting, or are my color tuner settings being incompatible with your particular panel.
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post #7005 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
My point was that things look like they do (mostly) due to director's intent (I'm pretty sure this was already discussed, so I won't reopen this discussion again).
And that is what we calibrate for. To watch the content how it was meant to be watched. People who don't care about that can do whatever they want, its their display.
Ya, not sure I can say the director intends for us not to be able to make out anything, and many of us just want to make sure we are maximizing overall picture quality, especially contrast, detail and color reproduction... So I do appreciate all the efforts as it does give us an excellent baseline to tweak a little from there towards what we prefer, but it is frustrating to see how things like brightness, contrast, color, color temp and gamma can seem to vary wildly in it's settings per title, per input, per source: just to get the same overall type of picture that we prefer, no matter what that personal preference is, if that helps clarify what I mean... But again, I have seen firmware updates transform this display from completely frustrating, not even working in HDR in some cases, to now even working in HDR10 while Casting, to now (for those of us in the Beta program) having the option of using a full remote with full on screen menus, which is super encouraging to see Vizio follow through... I am SO glad we don't have to hear the constant whining anymore from those who trashed this board with constant complaints even after being clearly told that it's a work in progress.
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post #7006 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 09:26 AM
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I have found that the settings I ENJOY can vary based on source and even per title... For example, the Netflix title Daredevil I have to use a contrast of 60-65 just to be able to even really see what's going on. If the director intends me not to be able to see anything, then screw them, I'm going to adjust the picture to a level I can make out the detail I need to see what's going on... That said, I do need to visit that specific title again on the latest firmware, and indeed the picture has seemed to become more consistent on it, but it does seem like the settings can also vary if I Cast it or play through the Shield, especially on previous firmware, I'll experiment more this weekend.

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If you really want to go crazy watch the first half of "The Aviator" It will make you think that the red LCD's stopped working altogether.
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post #7007 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 09:32 AM
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Thanks. Gave these settings a shot. While better than regular NORMAL, still a bit too yellow for me and I think I still prefer "Computer" as a base color profile as a default (though I wish that was slightly warmer itself). Anyone have good color settings that improve on Computer (adding a bit more warmth).
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I doubt you'll find something like that, calibrators target white point D65 (6504K). I never heard about anyone calibrating to something else (unless D65 is simply unachievable on a display, in such a case they would go for the warmest it can get while keeping greyscale balanced and color saturations accurate)
I don't know what color temp Normal is, and it most likely varies from unit to unit, so there would be no reference to shoot for unless one just decided on a random number that sounded good to them.
One thing I can recommend you try is reduce green and blue Gain by a few points and see how it looks to you, it should become warmer.
I have found the color temp range to be sequential, 1-15 overall from coolest to warmest... Cool 1.8-2.4 is like settings 1-5 out of 15, Computer 1.8 would be 6 out of 15 all the way up to Normal 2.4 being 15 out of 15 on that scale... So a setting of Computer 2.1-2.2 would be the middle of the overall scale and I find myself using Computer 2.0-2.2 just about all the time... of course total personal preference with masses out there seeming prefer cooler settings, in fact one personal web review said words to the effect of "First thing you do, is make sure to change to Cool immediately, it has a TERRIBLE picture otherwise..." lol... So if you prefer the middle gamma (2.0-2.2) under Computer that's really about the middle of the scale and certainly more accurate than setting it to the glaringly car headlight blue cool temps that those clueless non-enthusiasts seem to prefer.
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post #7008 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 09:39 AM
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As far as yellow goes, I think that perhaps you have become accustomed to watching your TV with a "cooler" temperature, i.e. the Computer PM. So, when you watch something using my settings, things look "warmer" than you are used to - maybe too warm for your taste. The "normal" temperature setting gets very close to 6500K, which is the temperature of our sun. One good way to judge that setting is to view content that has a lot of unprocessed outdoor shots. If the temperature/characteristics of the light in outdoor shots looks close to the actual outdoors, then you are looking at an accurate representation on your TV. Without a meter, this is all subjective, and personal preference is important.
Wait, just to clarify, as also an auto enthusiast who has done his homework on researching headlights, 5000k is normal, white, sunlight, while 6500k is pretty blue... I just got LED headlights for my car and they naturally vary from 6000-6500k with some as low as 5500k... I bought some that claimed to be 6000k and they were clearly 6500k and I returned them. Next ones I got had that just hint of blue, so they are more like actual 6000k... For another example, plant grow lights are 5000k, which mimics the suns color temp.
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post #7009 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 09:45 AM
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If you really want to go crazy watch the first half of "The Aviator" It will make you think that the red LCD's stopped working altogether.
Nice, I'll have to try that just to see what you mean... Sometimes I've turned on the display for the first time on a given day for regular 1080p pre-scaled cable and I was like "dang, why is that so blue...." but then I realize I had tweaked the settings for an On Demand title that needed tweaking the night before... So again, another example of how each title or channel can vary based on what their source settings are.
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In the past week or so, I've been seeing noisy/corrupted video on Netflix when casting. At random times while watching -- anywhere from 5 minutes to 2.5 hours in -- I get noise blocks around parts of the frame that change from frame to frame, as well as rainbow flashes of color at random points in the scene. Sometimes, the picture goes black for a frame and then you see smearing as people move on screen. Once it starts, the problem doesn't go away on it's own, at least in the 30 seconds I've let it keep going. And, once it occurs, scrolling to earlier/later parts of the show, including parts that had displayed properly, doesn't fix the issue, and whatever show I'm watching continues to be garbled. However, disconnecting the display from the Netflix app and then re-connecting it fixes the problem.

It looks just like what happens if I download a corrupted video file and try to play it on a PC, or if I'm watching live TV but the signal quality is low. It's as though the metadata for the video gets screwed up and then isn't decoding properly.
Just for posterity and help for anyone who has this issue in the future, a service reset seems to have fixed the problem.
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post #7011 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 10:29 AM
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Display Question

Just purchased my new Vizio M65-D0 yesterday and love it! (lifelong vizio owner but this is my newest purchase). Quick question.... I know only one of hte HDMI ports provides optimum display capabilities and I'm just curious as to which it is. Logically you would think its HDMI-1 by default but after reading through the owner's manual I'm confused as it looks like it says HDMI-5 is technically the one capable of displaying the HDR quality.... can someone assist me? This isn't for plugging in a device such as my ps4 or anything... just the HDMI cable running from my verizon fios cable box into the back of the display.

Thanks,
Nick
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Additional Question

Sorry for the additional post! New member here and not a "technical" guy when it comes to TVs/Home theather displays. Because I purchased my new Vizio M65-d0 yesterday... should I also be contacting my local cable company (verizon Fios) to make sure I have the latest / up-to-date box in terms of providing the best display / picture quality on my home theater display? Does that make a difference? Could not having the newest cable box from Verizon affect my image / picture quality? Just wondering and sorry if this is a silly question. Hoping to learn a lot by joining and reading through this forum (although 234 pages can be intimidating to read through and certainly overwhelming).

Also, trying to adjust my display / picture settings to provide me with the best picture quality. I like a brighter more vibrate picture and have the TV set up in my livingroom (which is a decently naturally light room). I default to the "vivid" display typically from years past with my older Vizio..

Can anyone recommend the best display / settings or point me to a good article or post to read about how to generate the best picture quality? Can just be overwhelming looking at all the settings when you aren't technical like me. I've read the the owner's manual but am still unsure if I want things like "Reduce Judder" turned all the way up or "Reduce Motion Blur". Also, do I want "Clear Action" turned on? I've read what these things are in the owner's manual but am still unsure if I want them on or off in my settings..

Again sorry for the long post just want to learn as much as I can and get the most out of my wonderful product!

Nick
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Originally Posted by Nicholas Scelzi View Post
Just purchased my new Vizio M65-D0 yesterday and love it! (lifelong vizio owner but this is my newest purchase). Quick question.... I know only one of hte HDMI ports provides optimum display capabilities and I'm just curious as to which it is. Logically you would think its HDMI-1 by default but after reading through the owner's manual I'm confused as it looks like it says HDMI-5 is technically the one capable of displaying the HDR quality.... can someone assist me? This isn't for plugging in a device such as my ps4 or anything... just the HDMI cable running from my verizon fios cable box into the back of the display.

Thanks,
Nick
HDMI 1 is the HDMI 2.0 input that supports HDR, [email protected] and chroma subsampling. It's what you will want to connect your UHD Blu-Ray Player or 4K HDR capable video streaming device (Nvidia Shield, etc).

HDMI 5 is HDMI 1.4 and does not have as much bandwidth, but is a lower latency port. It is best port to use with a gaming system or PC. I don't think it support HDR, but someone else might correct me.

My personally opinion is that lower latency is more important to most video games than HDR would be.
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post #7014 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicholas Scelzi View Post
Just purchased my new Vizio M65-D0 yesterday and love it! (lifelong vizio owner but this is my newest purchase). Quick question.... I know only one of hte HDMI ports provides optimum display capabilities and I'm just curious as to which it is. Logically you would think its HDMI-1 by default but after reading through the owner's manual I'm confused as it looks like it says HDMI-5 is technically the one capable of displaying the HDR quality.... can someone assist me? This isn't for plugging in a device such as my ps4 or anything... just the HDMI cable running from my verizon fios cable box into the back of the display.

Thanks,
Nick
HDMI-1 is the only port that is "full bandwidth" HDMI 2.0a, meaning you can transmit 4k video at 4:4:4 8-bit. This is really only important if you want HDR out of your XBox One S or you are plugging in a PC and want clear text. HDMI-1 is the "best" port in terms of picture quality.

HDMI-1 is also the only port that supports ARC for returning sound to a soundbar or an AVR.

HDMI-5 has lower input lag, which is important for gaming.

If you're just plugging in a FIOS box, it doesn't really matter which port you plug into, but I'd go with HDMI-1.

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Originally Posted by Nicholas Scelzi View Post
Sorry for the additional post! New member here and not a "technical" guy when it comes to TVs/Home theather displays. Because I purchased my new Vizio M65-d0 yesterday... should I also be contacting my local cable company (verizon Fios) to make sure I have the latest / up-to-date box in terms of providing the best display / picture quality on my home theater display? Does that make a difference? Could not having the newest cable box from Verizon affect my image / picture quality? Just wondering and sorry if this is a silly question. Hoping to learn a lot by joining and reading through this forum (although 234 pages can be intimidating to read through and certainly overwhelming).

Also, trying to adjust my display / picture settings to provide me with the best picture quality. I like a brighter more vibrate picture and have the TV set up in my livingroom (which is a decently naturally light room). I default to the "vivid" display typically from years past with my older Vizio..

Can anyone recommend the best display / settings or point me to a good article or post to read about how to generate the best picture quality? Can just be overwhelming looking at all the settings when you aren't technical like me. I've read the the owner's manual but am still unsure if I want things like "Reduce Judder" turned all the way up or "Reduce Motion Blur". Also, do I want "Clear Action" turned on? I've read what these things are in the owner's manual but am still unsure if I want them on or off in my settings..

Again sorry for the long post just want to learn as much as I can and get the most out of my wonderful product!

Nick
Don't know about how firmware updates will affect the FIOS box, but asking probably wouldn't hurt?

If you want a more vibrant? picture, turn up the "color" setting for more saturated colors, or turn up the "backlight" setting for a brighter picture. I would start from the "Calibrated" preset, and tune from there. No need to touch "brightness" or "contrast," but you can fiddle with "color," "backlight," and "gamma," and see what suits you. What each of them do should be fairly obvious from the changes in the picture.

You probably don't need to turn on "Clear Action." It's a feature that causes rapid flickering to reduce blur, but in exchange causes the image to be dimmer. "Reduce Judder" and "Reduce Motion Blur" insert frames between the ones on the input in order to make the video look smoother. This introduces the "Soap Opera Effect," which some people enjoy, and some people can't stand. I'd leave everything at 0, then try bumping them up and see if you like the effect. If you do, keep it on; if you don't, leave it off.
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HDMI-1 is the only port that is "full bandwidth" HDMI 2.0a, meaning you can transmit 4k video at 4:4:4 8-bit. This is really only important if you want HDR out of your XBox One S or you are plugging in a PC and want clear text. HDMI-1 is the "best" port in terms of picture quality.

HDMI-1 is also the only port that supports ARC for returning sound to a soundbar or an AVR.

HDMI-5 has lower input lag, which is important for gaming.

If you're just plugging in a FIOS box, it doesn't really matter which port you plug into, but I'd go with HDMI-1.



Don't know about how firmware updates will affect the FIOS box, but asking probably wouldn't hurt?

If you want a more vibrant? picture, turn up the "color" setting for more saturated colors, or turn up the "backlight" setting for a brighter picture. I would start from the "Calibrated" preset, and tune from there. No need to touch "brightness" or "contrast," but you can fiddle with "color," "backlight," and "gamma," and see what suits you. What each of them do should be fairly obvious from the changes in the picture.

You probably don't need to turn on "Clear Action." It's a feature that causes rapid flickering to reduce blur, but in exchange causes the image to be dimmer. "Reduce Judder" and "Reduce Motion Blur" insert frames between the ones on the input in order to make the video look smoother. This introduces the "Soap Opera Effect," which some people enjoy, and some people can't stand. I'd leave everything at 0, then try bumping them up and see if you like the effect. If you do, keep it on; if you don't, leave it off.
Thanks for all the great advice guys! Reasons and kind replies like both of yours are the reason why I joined the forum community like this. I look forward to continue reading people's post and learning as much as I can.

So to confirm... my best bet is plugging the HDMI cord from my Fios cable box into the HDMI port highlighted in green labeled (ARC). That is technically the HDMI "1" correct?
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post #7016 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 11:14 AM
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Thanks for all the great advice guys! Reasons and kind replies like both of yours are the reason why I joined the forum community like this. I look forward to continue reading people's post and learning as much as I can.

So to confirm... my best bet is plugging the HDMI cord from my Fios cable box into the HDMI port highlighted in green labeled (ARC). That is technically the HDMI "1" correct?
Yes that will give you the best picture quality.
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post #7017 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 12:18 PM
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Wait, just to clarify, as also an auto enthusiast who has done his homework on researching headlights, 5000k is normal, white, sunlight, while 6500k is pretty blue... I just got LED headlights for my car and they naturally vary from 6000-6500k with some as low as 5500k... I bought some that claimed to be 6000k and they were clearly 6500k and I returned them. Next ones I got had that just hint of blue, so they are more like actual 6000k... For another example, plant grow lights are 5000k, which mimics the suns color temp.
I stand corrected. 6500K is what the content creators ( i.e. THE STUDIOS ) have determined to be the color of the sun, and is the standard. If the studios proclaim it, then you must submit or find yourself in color temp purgatory!! ( LOL! ). If you want your TV picture's temp to look the same ( or close to the same ); as what the studio saw during the mastering process, 6500K will become your best friend.
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post #7018 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 03:30 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong. But if you set the color space to YYCbCr, won't that negate 4K with HDR when playing games/movies? RGB is required to get HDR with a 4K display. Or does this not affect it? YYCbCr will force a 2K display while in HDR. At least on my PS4 Pro it does.
Rather than force the color space to YYCbCr, just set it to "Auto". Except for HDR, it will stay in the YYCbCr space anyway. When Dolby Vision gets triggered, most of the settings, including the color tuner and 11 point, and several of the basic ones are temporarily reset to DVGR standards. So it basically takes over your TV at that point. I believe that HDR-10 does the same thing. If HDR wants the RGB space, then the Auto setting will accommodate that request as needed.
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post #7019 of 10266 Old 04-28-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nicholas Scelzi View Post
Just purchased my new Vizio M65-D0 yesterday and love it! (lifelong vizio owner but this is my newest purchase). Quick question.... I know only one of hte HDMI ports provides optimum display capabilities and I'm just curious as to which it is. Logically you would think its HDMI-1 by default but after reading through the owner's manual I'm confused as it looks like it says HDMI-5 is technically the one capable of displaying the HDR quality.... can someone assist me? This isn't for plugging in a device such as my ps4 or anything... just the HDMI cable running from my verizon fios cable box into the back of the display.

Thanks,
Nick
HDMI 1-4 will display HDR, 1 in full 60Hz AND 4:4:4 chroma for game consoles and computer outputs that support it, Ports 2-4 HDR in 24Hz, like almost all actual Blu Ray and streaming content is. So for regular cable any of them are fine... In case you are wondering HDMI 5 has the lowest input lag for gaming and does not do HDR at all.

Last edited by danbfree; 04-28-2017 at 05:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Nicholas Scelzi View Post
Sorry for the additional post! New member here and not a "technical" guy when it comes to TVs/Home theather displays. Because I purchased my new Vizio M65-d0 yesterday... should I also be contacting my local cable company (verizon Fios) to make sure I have the latest / up-to-date box in terms of providing the best display / picture quality on my home theater display? Does that make a difference? Could not having the newest cable box from Verizon affect my image / picture quality? Just wondering and sorry if this is a silly question. Hoping to learn a lot by joining and reading through this forum (although 234 pages can be intimidating to read through and certainly overwhelming).

Also, trying to adjust my display / picture settings to provide me with the best picture quality. I like a brighter more vibrate picture and have the TV set up in my livingroom (which is a decently naturally light room). I default to the "vivid" display typically from years past with my older Vizio..

Can anyone recommend the best display / settings or point me to a good article or post to read about how to generate the best picture quality? Can just be overwhelming looking at all the settings when you aren't technical like me. I've read the the owner's manual but am still unsure if I want things like "Reduce Judder" turned all the way up or "Reduce Motion Blur". Also, do I want "Clear Action" turned on? I've read what these things are in the owner's manual but am still unsure if I want them on or off in my settings..

Again sorry for the long post just want to learn as much as I can and get the most out of my wonderful product!

Nick
Yes, ask your cable provider for the newest box, it should pre-scale the picture to 1080p and will look great on your display. Reduce Judder is for smoothness with a 60Hz connection, Motion Blur controls smoothness with a 24Hz connection. If you don't like the overly tracer-like Soap Opera Effect, keep them turned down to no more than 3 but having a setting of at least 1 will keep from the little chopiness we call Judder.. As far as settings, the simple answer is go with the presets: Calibrated for non-4k, Vivid for 4k and HDR, and remember you can adjust at least that top Backlight setting as you wish without screwing up the picture too much... I know others have probably answered with more details, but this is a good simple way to start.
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