Official 2016 Vizio M-Series Owner's Thread - Page 273 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8161 of 10262 Old 06-20-2017, 10:04 PM
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@sonoftumble what made you adjust the gain of red and blue? Just curious.


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post #8162 of 10262 Old 06-20-2017, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacksomkesoplenty View Post
@sonoftumble what made you adjust the gain of red and blue? Just curious.


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The offset and gain settings are the same thing as the 30% / 80%. It is one of the first things to get adjusted in the calibration workflow. The Calman software on my PC displays special bar charts that interact with my Spectracal C6 meter, and my Murideo SIX G pattern generator. The goal is to get the red, green and blue bars to put out the same luminance level at 30% and 80%. In order for that to happen, you have to adjust both the offset ( 30% ) and gain ( 80% ) settings until the differences are negligible. After I finished those adjustments, the rest of the workflow and readings were incredibly accurate with less than 3% errors. I didn't need to adjust anything else. I'm sure you are aware, but just in case, the gain adjustment is not the same as the brightness adjustment.
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post #8163 of 10262 Old 06-20-2017, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The offset and gain settings are the same thing as the 30% / 80%. It is one of the first things to get adjusted in the calibration workflow. The Calman software on my PC displays special bar charts that interact with my Spectracal C6 meter, and my Murideo SIX G pattern generator. The goal is to get the red, green and blue bars to put out the same luminance level at 30% and 80%. In order for that to happen, you have to adjust both the offset ( 30% ) and gain ( 80% ) settings until the differences are negligible. After I finished those adjustments, the rest of the workflow and readings were incredibly accurate with less than 3% errors. I didn't need to adjust anything else. I'm sure you are aware, but just in case, the gain adjustment is not the same as the brightness adjustment.


Yeah I noticed that you knocked the brightness numbers out of there and figured you may have done that to compensate. But cool beans i plugged them in, may do a factory reset tomorrow then put them back in just b/c it would make me feel comfortable. Thanks for the reply


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post #8164 of 10262 Old 06-20-2017, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacksomkesoplenty View Post
Yeah I noticed that you knocked the brightness numbers out of there and figured you may have done that to compensate. But cool beans i plugged them in, may do a factory reset tomorrow then put them back in just b/c it would make me feel comfortable. Thanks for the reply


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The brightness numbers are only an issue with red and green. I've watched a ton of different content, and the only time I saw the block noise was when the red or green brightness was set to anything but zero. The other colors do not seem to be a problem.
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post #8165 of 10262 Old 06-20-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
I'm still figuring this one out too, I have spectrum...picture isn't that fantastic.
You might be surprised to hear this, but I run on one PM for all content. Some of the broadcast channels look crummy, and I just live with it - and also try to minimize how much time I spend watching the rubbish. I have found that the noise reduction options don't seem to do much, so I leave them off.
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post #8166 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
You might be surprised to hear this, but I run on one PM for all content. Some of the broadcast channels look crummy, and I just live with it - and also try to minimize how much time I spend watching the rubbish. I have found that the noise reduction options don't seem to do much, so I leave them off.
I hear ya, I guess I expect cable to look as great as watching a blu-ray of streaming...wishful thinking lol!
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post #8167 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Sonoftumble Calibration REV 5 SDR + HDR-10
2016 M70-D3
FW 3.2.13.3

NOTES: With REV. 4.5, I encountered block noise when viewing content that had certain shades of yellow and green. The fix was to set the red and green brightness levels in the color tuner to zero. That of course changed certain elements of the calibration, so I decided to run it again leaving the red and green brightness at zero while making more adjustments to the hue and saturation levels to get things to behave. The results were excellent with both the saturation sweeps and color checker pages looking awesome.

Also, Rev. 4.5 was based on FW 3.2.8.3, so just in case there were differences in color behavior with 3.2.13.3, I thought running a new scan was in order.

Finally, I ran an HDR-10 calibration. The amazing thing about that process was just how close my TV tracked with color accuracy. All I needed to do was adjust the 30% and 80% and NOTHING ELSE. Pretty cool.

When you play HDR-10 content, the TV loads a CMS table with zeroed out Color Tuner and 11 point adjustments. Simply play HDR-10 content, and while it’s playing, input the settings below. The TV will save those settings and automatically load them whenever you play HDR-10 content. When you start playing SDR content it will automatically load that table with the SDR settings.

If you don’t have an external HDR-10 playback device, you can cast the second listing of Meridian on Netflix which is HDR-10. It’s a short film, but you should be able to input the very few setting in the 15 minutes that the program plays.

Since some of you will ask, when I tried to do a Dolby Vision calibration, the initial luminance and color readings were so far off, >25% errors - that I need to do a little more research on how to properly setup Calman before trying again.

Enjoy!

Start with Calibrated Picture Mode

Basic Settings:
Backlight: 40
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Color: 50
Sharpness: 2* ( *slight edge enhancement for low quality signal; i.e. 1080i/720p/cable/satellite )
Tint: 0
Color Temp: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Reduce Judder: 1 - 2 ( helps with 3:2 motion issues without introducing SOE )
Reduce Motion Blur: 0
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off* ( Set this to Low for crappy signal quality; i.e. same reasons as above ) - Set to “Off” for 1080P/4K/Blu-ray, etc.
Game Low Latency: Off
Pure Cinema = On
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: 2.1

Color Tuner
Primary Color Enabled: Turn all to On ( default )
Hue: R: 0, G: -4, B: 0, C: 0, M: -5, Y: 0
Sat: R: -5, G: -1, B: -10, C: -3, M: -5, Y: 5
Brt: R: 0, G: 0, B: -12, C: -6, M: -7, Y: -1
Ofs: R: 2, G: 3, B: 5
Gain: R: 16, G: 18, B: -13

11 Point:
5%: to 50%: No change - zeros
60%: R: -4, G: -10, B: -10
70% - No change - zeros
80% - No change - zeros
90% R: 0, G: 0, B: 5
100%: R: 20, G: -15, B: 15

HDR-10
Color Tuner:
Offset: R: -6, G: 1, B: 0
Gain: R: 7, G: 2, B: -17
Tagged. I'll use these on the replacement. Should be next week.

Thanks!

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post #8168 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by wlp3D View Post
Just to expand on @Silencer271 previous post above...

I was casting watchESPN app last night, watching the Astros as I was grilling outside, on my little d24 vizio via Chromecast dongle. Instead of going through the switching of inputs, turning on direcTV etc (1st world problems) my M55-D0 (FW is up to date with .13) was already on and on the Cast input so I was just going to switch the Cast on the app from "Kitchen" to "Living Room"...well the M55 does NOT show up on the cast options from the watchESPN app. I don't know if this is something on Vizio's end or possibly direcTV (as I was signed in with my direcTV login and the above problem is direcTV also). Could be something to dive into - maybe if someone is home and can see if their M series can be found as a cast option on other devices (I used both my iPhone and watchESPN app on Vizio Tablet - but all day yesterday I had been casting Netflix from Vizio Tablet to TV) with all cast enabled apps, strictly Vizio not showing up on these apps or..............
Download the ESPN app, not the WatchESPN app to cast to the Vizio TV. Not sure why but this works. There is a "Watch" tab in the app that has all the same streams.

Figured this out while I was watching the Cavs.
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post #8169 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
Sonoftumble Calibration REV 5 SDR + HDR-10
2016 M70-D3
FW 3.2.13.3

NOTES: With REV. 4.5, I encountered block noise when viewing content that had certain shades of yellow and green. The fix was to set the red and green brightness levels in the color tuner to zero. That of course changed certain elements of the calibration, so I decided to run it again leaving the red and green brightness at zero while making more adjustments to the hue and saturation levels to get things to behave. The results were excellent with both the saturation sweeps and color checker pages looking awesome.

Also, Rev. 4.5 was based on FW 3.2.8.3, so just in case there were differences in color behavior with 3.2.13.3, I thought running a new scan was in order.

Finally, I ran an HDR-10 calibration. The amazing thing about that process was just how close my TV tracked with color accuracy. All I needed to do was adjust the 30% and 80% and NOTHING ELSE. Pretty cool.

When you play HDR-10 content, the TV loads a CMS table with zeroed out Color Tuner and 11 point adjustments. Simply play HDR-10 content, and while it’s playing, input the settings below. The TV will save those settings and automatically load them whenever you play HDR-10 content. When you start playing SDR content it will automatically load that table with the SDR settings.

If you don’t have an external HDR-10 playback device, you can cast the second listing of Meridian on Netflix which is HDR-10. It’s a short film, but you should be able to input the very few setting in the 15 minutes that the program plays.

Since some of you will ask, when I tried to do a Dolby Vision calibration, the initial luminance and color readings were so far off, >25% errors - that I need to do a little more research on how to properly setup Calman before trying again.

Enjoy!

Start with Calibrated Picture Mode

Basic Settings:
Backlight: 40
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Color: 50
Sharpness: 2* ( *slight edge enhancement for low quality signal; i.e. 1080i/720p/cable/satellite )
Tint: 0
Color Temp: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Reduce Judder: 1 - 2 ( helps with 3:2 motion issues without introducing SOE )
Reduce Motion Blur: 0
Clear Action: Off
Reduce Signal Noise: Off* ( Set this to Low for crappy signal quality; i.e. same reasons as above ) - Set to “Off” for 1080P/4K/Blu-ray, etc.
Game Low Latency: Off
Pure Cinema = On
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: 2.1

Color Tuner
Primary Color Enabled: Turn all to On ( default )
Hue: R: 0, G: -4, B: 0, C: 0, M: -5, Y: 0
Sat: R: -5, G: -1, B: -10, C: -3, M: -5, Y: 5
Brt: R: 0, G: 0, B: -12, C: -6, M: -7, Y: -1
Ofs: R: 2, G: 3, B: 5
Gain: R: 16, G: 18, B: -13

11 Point:
5%: to 50%: No change - zeros
60%: R: -4, G: -10, B: -10
70% - No change - zeros
80% - No change - zeros
90% R: 0, G: 0, B: 5
100%: R: 20, G: -15, B: 15

HDR-10
Color Tuner:
Offset: R: -6, G: 1, B: 0
Gain: R: 7, G: 2, B: -17
Excellent, im going to try this evening and will post the results, already loving the decision i made to keep M60-D1 in place of LG 60UH7700, its far better than LG PQ and 500$ less, looks like wise decision
thanks to this forum and members for helping pople like us
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post #8170 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcoolcoool View Post
Download the ESPN app, not the WatchESPN app to cast to the Vizio TV. Not sure why but this works. There is a "Watch" tab in the app that has all the same streams.



Figured this out while I was watching the Cavs.


Seriously!? I wish I had known this I was moving the laptop in here to watch it off the xfinity stream app(sucks btw) or watching it on the ipad. Good to know, thanks for the info.


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post #8171 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ssarava9 View Post
Excellent, im going to try this evening and will post the results, already loving the decision i made to keep M60-D1 in place of LG 60UH7700, its far better than LG PQ and 500$ less, looks like wise decision
thanks to this forum and members for helping pople like us
My settings may not look that great on your TV because the M60 is an IPS type of LCD panel. My M70 and the other M TV's use VPA type panels. There are enough differences between the two panel designs that you might not like how things look. It's worth a try, but just wanted you to be aware.
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@sonoftumble for your HDR 11 point settings do we use the SDR numbers? I see the HDR-10 Color Tuner settings but you mentioned you only had to change the 30% & 80% but I dont see them listed?
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post #8173 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 06:08 PM
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@sonoftumble for your HDR 11 point settings do we use the SDR numbers? I see the HDR-10 Color Tuner settings but you mentioned you only had to change the 30% & 80% but I dont see them listed?
The 30%/80% are a.k.a. Offset ( 30% ) and Gain ( 80% ). That's all the adjustments needed. I know it sounds weird, but after I made those two adjustments, the rest of the readings were under 3% error. Also, HDR-10 takes over 11 point, and there is a different curve called the EOTF which tracked very nicely. I've watched several movies in the last couple of days ( Life of Pi, Oblivion, Dead Pool ) and the colors and flesh tones look absolutely awesome and natural.
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post #8174 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 06:18 PM
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I'm torn between the 55" M (2016) and Vizio 50" P (2016). I really and I mean really want 55". 60" is too big based on my experience and 50" is just a little too small.

How much better are the blacks levels on the Vizio P vs the M. I bought a 50" Vizio 4k D series Led months ago but I ended up returning it not only because it had a defect but because I was unhappy with the black levels. Local dimming dimmed the picture too much and even then the black levels weren't on par with what I'm used to.

Will the M's be that much better? It already improved with motion response time which was already good on the D series

Im also hearing that this year's D series have weaker PQ than last.

Sure, thus years 2017 M provides excellent contrast on par with last year's P but unfortunately it has 40ms of input lag...I'm looking for around 16ms.
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post #8175 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by KidRad View Post
I'm torn between the 55" M (2016) and Vizio 50" P (2016). I really and I mean really want 55". 60" is too big based on my experience and 50" is just a little too small.

How much better are the blacks levels on the Vizio P vs the M. I bought a 50" Vizio 4k D series Led months ago but I ended up returning it not only because it had a defect but because I was unhappy with the black levels. Local dimming dimmed the picture too much and even then the black levels weren't on par with what I'm used to.

Will the M's be that much better? It already improved with motion response time which was already good on the D series

Im also hearing that this year's D series have weaker PQ than last.

Sure, thus years 2017 M provides excellent contrast on par with last year's P but unfortunately it has 40ms of input lag...I'm looking for around 16ms.
FYI - the 2016 55" M Series is also lacking the HDMI-5 low lag port.
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post #8176 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KidRad View Post
I'm torn between the 55" M (2016) and Vizio 50" P (2016). I really and I mean really want 55". 60" is too big based on my experience and 50" is just a little too small.

How much better are the blacks levels on the Vizio P vs the M. I bought a 50" Vizio 4k D series Led months ago but I ended up returning it not only because it had a defect but because I was unhappy with the black levels. Local dimming dimmed the picture too much and even then the black levels weren't on par with what I'm used to.

Will the M's be that much better? It already improved with motion response time which was already good on the D series

Im also hearing that this year's D series have weaker PQ than last.

Sure, thus years 2017 M provides excellent contrast on par with last year's P but unfortunately it has 40ms of input lag...I'm looking for around 16ms.

The P is the way to go with all of your requirements except for screen size. If the 60" is available I would probably try to make that work. To get the low lag port on the M, you need to start with the 65 incher.

Or maybe you might want to go with a 120" R?

Last edited by sonoftumble; 02-21-2018 at 07:55 PM.
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post #8177 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 07:30 PM
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The P is the way to go with all of your requirements except for screen size. If the 60" is available I would probably try to make that work. To get the low lag port on the M, you need to start with the 65 incher.

Or maybe you might want to go with a 120" R?
Unfortunately I can't afford the 60" it's completely out of my price range. I planned on picking up the 50" P once it goes on sale again to about $999 CAD at Costco. I could always just sit a little closer to get that bigger TV effect I guess to compensate. 😜

Going by Rtings review of the M 2016 series, the difference in contrast between it and the 4K D 2016 series seems small in comparison to the bigger jump you get with the P. Plus the P has 10 bit color and a much brighter picture.

What is your stance on this year's Samsung MU6300? According
To Rtings it's contrast is excellent and on par with the P, it's very bright, it's a 10 bit panel and supports HDR with Low input lag unlike the P BUT the deal breaker is that it's motion response time is 18ms.....side that with the Ps 10.2ms and I'm sure the Sammy will look noticeably worse in motion.
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post #8178 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jharperweb797 View Post
FYI - the 2016 55" M Series is also lacking the HDMI-5 low lag port.
Thanks for the heads up! Now that option has officially been knocked off the list....it's so irritating, I would of been happy with the 2016 '1080p' Vizio D series since the contrast is very close to that of the P, but the input lag wounded up being 26ms. Hilarious how the 1080p model has deeper blacks than both the 4K D and M series. I could of saved quite a bit of money that way but as always us gamers are.totally limited with the laggy selection of hdtvs

The 2017 M also dishes out 40

Last edited by KidRad; 06-21-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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post #8179 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 07:56 PM
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Unfortunately I can't afford the 60" it's completely out of my price range. I planned on picking up the 50" P once it goes on sale again to about $999 CAD at Costco. I could always just sit a little closer to get that bigger TV effect I guess to compensate. 😜

Going by Rtings review of the M 2016 series, the difference in contrast between it and the 4K D 2016 series seems small in comparison to the bigger jump you get with the P. Plus the P has 10 bit color and a much brighter picture.

What is your stance on this year's Samsung MU6300? According
To Rtings it's contrast is excellent and on par with the P, it's very bright, it's a 10 bit panel and supports HDR with Low input lag unlike the P BUT the deal breaker is that it's motion response time is 18ms.....side that with the Ps 10.2ms and I'm sure the Sammy will look noticeably worse in motion.
The P still stands out as the MUCH better overall TV. You'll just have to sit closer. The Sammy is missing a few critical features which translate to better PQ - especially when you want to settle down for a movie when not gaming: 1) No local dimming, 2) No Wide Color Gamut. That makes the 10bit panel basically useless, and HDR is not going to look very good for the same reasons.
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The P still stands out as the MUCH better overall TV. You'll just have to sit closer. The Sammy is missing a few critical features which translate to better PQ - especially when you want to settle down for a movie when not gaming: 1) No local dimming, 2) No Wide Color Gamut. That makes the 10bit panel basically useless, and HDR is not going to look very good for the same reasons.
I'm not even sure I'll use the Ps local dimming feature. I've heard it dims the whites down ect. Anything under 300 nits is a no go for me. Also the silver bezel really bothers me, but whatever I could always just find a way to make it black.
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post #8181 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The P still stands out as the MUCH better overall TV. You'll just have to sit closer. The Sammy is missing a few critical features which translate to better PQ - especially when you want to settle down for a movie when not gaming: 1) No local dimming, 2) No Wide Color Gamut. That makes the 10bit panel basically useless, and HDR is not going to look very good for the same reasons.
^^^this.
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post #8182 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 08:21 PM
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^^^this.
HDR on the P increases input lag to about 40ms when gaming which is pretty lousy, I don't plan on using HDR or 4k until they both become standard whenever the PS5 releases.

I just need deep plasma blacks, a bright picture, excellent motion handling, great color and pow input lag and the P seems to offer that in spades. I'm assuming the blacks still look excellent and very deep without fald activated?
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post #8183 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 08:37 PM
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HDR on the P increases input lag to about 40ms when gaming which is pretty lousy, I don't plan on using HDR or 4k until they both become standard whenever the PS5 releases.

I just need deep plasma blacks, a bright picture, excellent motion handling, great color and pow input lag and the P seems to offer that in spades. I'm assuming the blacks still look excellent and very deep without fald activated?
Not much of a gamer...but the blacks on my m are pretty darn good...and I never turn off the dimming feature.
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post #8184 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 08:41 PM
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HDR on the P increases input lag to about 40ms when gaming which is pretty lousy, I don't plan on using HDR or 4k until they both become standard whenever the PS5 releases.

I just need deep plasma blacks, a bright picture, excellent motion handling, great color and pow input lag and the P seems to offer that in spades. I'm assuming the blacks still look excellent and very deep without fald activated?
The P is still the much better TV. It provides champaign on a beer budget.

As Rtings said about the 2016 P: "Great gaming TV, with low input lag and little motion blur. Excellent native contrast ratio. The blacks are very deep, even when local dimming is off."

And you will have a TV that can handle HDR with WCG when you upgrade to a future gaming console.

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post #8185 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 09:29 PM
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The P is still the much better TV. It provides champaign on a beer budget.

As Rtings said about the 2016 P: "Great gaming TV, with low input lag and little motion blur. Excellent native contrast ratio. The blacks are very deep, even when local dimming is off."

And you will have a TV that can handle HDR with WCG when you upgrade to a future gaming console.

IMAO
Lol except when using HDR on the P it boosts up the input lag from 16ms to 43ms. No thanks lol but whatever, I'll just sell it and upgrade whenever the PS5 hits. Could be late 2018 or 2019 for all we know 😈 as of now for my current needs it's going to be ace. Minus that bloody silver bezel. Lol
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post #8186 of 10262 Old 06-21-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KidRad View Post
Lol except when using HDR on the P it boosts up the input lag from 16ms to 43ms. No thanks lol but whatever, I'll just sell it and upgrade whenever the PS5 hits. Could be late 2018 or 2019 for all we know 😈 as of now for my current needs it's going to be ace. Minus that bloody silver bezel. Lol
By then, I'm certain that the HDR processing will be much faster. For the bezel, I recommend a careful application of black electrical tape.
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post #8187 of 10262 Old 06-22-2017, 05:47 AM
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@KidRad check out the TCL 55" P series that everyone is raving about (shipping issues aside...)
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post #8188 of 10262 Old 06-22-2017, 06:50 AM
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Except FALD is off in game mode.
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LG 65B7 | T95N with CoreELEC | Vizio SB3851-D0 | Calibration + Settings (TBD)
Vizio M60-D1 | T95M with LibreELEC | Calibration + Settings
Dell UP2516D | Le Potato with CoreELEC (Development/testing platform)
Vizio M55-C2 (Ex) | Calibration + Settings
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post #8189 of 10262 Old 06-22-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by KidRad View Post
Lol except when using HDR on the P it boosts up the input lag from 16ms to 43ms. No thanks lol but whatever, I'll just sell it and upgrade whenever the PS5 hits. Could be late 2018 or 2019 for all we know 😈 as of now for my current needs it's going to be ace. Minus that bloody silver bezel. Lol
After taking a closer look at the rtings review of the 2016 P series, I realized that the 50" is a 60Hz panel. rtings quote: "50" (Vizio P50-C1): This is a 60 hz TV, not a 120 hz model like the rest. This means the motion interpolation/soap opera effect won't be as strong, and the TV won't support 1080p @ 120Hz. Motion blur should be similar, though."

It looks like from the review that it shouldn't impact input lag for gaming. Just thought I would point that out. It looks like if you want the whole enchilada, you have to pay for the cheese.

I looked at the TCL, and it certainly appears to have all the feature check boxes. However, I was not able to find any input speed info, so I don't know how good the lag is.
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post #8190 of 10262 Old 06-22-2017, 08:16 AM
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My settings may not look that great on your TV because the M60 is an IPS type of LCD panel. My M70 and the other M TV's use VPA type panels. There are enough differences between the two panel designs that you might not like how things look. It's worth a try, but just wanted you to be aware.


You are right , these settings doesn't create wow feel and I still feel rtings calibration is good for m series 60" which is ips panel


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