Official 2016 Vizio M-Series Owner's Thread - Page 98 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2911 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 06:28 PM
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Can someone elaborate on the problems with the m series and Xbox one s..... I (perhaps foolishly) just spent 2 hours in line at target to get the one s to be my uhd bluray player and it's downloading a 1gb update now.... did I make a bad decision? I've used xboxes as my disc players for a decade. What type of problems should I expect.
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post #2912 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 06:38 PM
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Are you asking about the Xbox or the tv ? You gave more info about the Xbox lol
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post #2913 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueWaffles View Post
Are you asking about the Xbox or the tv ? You gave more info about the Xbox lol
Someone in this thread mentioned the m series and Xbox one s have "issues" working together.

I don't notice any so far though, but perhaps I don't know what to look for lol.

But I'm disheartened to also read the m series isn't true hdr. Is there a bette tv I could buy in the $1500 range? I paid $1000 for my m65-d0 but feel like perhaps I should have spent more and gotten something different.
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post #2914 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 07:41 PM
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Wow, I'm pissed. Not only do my uhd blurays look ridiculously washed out on this tv with the Xbox one s, but the screen keeps going black for a few frames every couple of minutes. What the heck?! I'm reading complaints about this since august. How has this not been fixed yet?!?

Are there any workarounds? I found one on Reddit but it involves changing settings on a Sony tv, but I don't think the vizio has the same settings.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...on_xbox_one_s/
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post #2915 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
Exactly, it "supports" the signal, but it would have to have a 10 bit panel with 10 bit processor to actually display HDR10 properly. I'd like to know for sure too whether that's all it needed was Ann update if the 10 bit hardware is there.
Correct, the M-Series doesn't have a 10-bit panel. Like you said, it code decode 10-bit signals, but it can't take advantage of them. It's a hardware limitation, so it cannot be "fixed" via an update. You'd have to upgrade to the P-Series to get a true 10-bit panel. The M-Series has very "low" HDR capabilities.

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The M series does have a 10-bit panel, it's the supporting ICs that are supposedly only 8-bit + dither. Rtings actually considers 8-bit+dither to be equivalent to 10-bit

http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/gradient

Plus 10-bit panel isn't end all be all, a lot of those 10-bit panel TVs still have obvious banding. Especially compared to my iPhone 7... looking at the rtings sample image there is zero banding where even some of their highly rated HDR TVs I still see banding.

Personally I think people are putting to much weight in the whole WCG thing. IMO the better contrast is what really makes a difference in PQ.
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post #2916 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 08:28 PM
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Quick question for everyone. I bought the m65-d0 with the intention of playing my PlayStation Pro mostly. The more I'm reading about a lack of WCG should I take it back for a different television like the ks8000?
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post #2917 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
Correct, the M-Series doesn't have a 10-bit panel. Like you said, it code decode 10-bit signals, but it can't take advantage of them. It's a hardware limitation, so it cannot be "fixed" via an update. You'd have to upgrade to the P-Series to get a true 10-bit panel. The M-Series has very "low" HDR capabilities.

Can you provide your Vizio source who provided this proof to you? I would like to see the definitive statement.
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post #2918 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 08:43 PM
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Did you first confirm you are running the latest firmware?

https://support.vizio.com/s/article/...nformation-244


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Originally Posted by talk show host View Post
Wow, I'm pissed. Not only do my uhd blurays look ridiculously washed out on this tv with the Xbox one s, but the screen keeps going black for a few frames every couple of minutes. What the heck?! I'm reading complaints about this since august. How has this not been fixed yet?!?

Are there any workarounds? I found one on Reddit but it involves changing settings on a Sony tv, but I don't think the vizio has the same settings.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...on_xbox_one_s/
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post #2919 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by talk show host View Post
Wow, I'm pissed. Not only do my uhd blurays look ridiculously washed out on this tv with the Xbox one s, but the screen keeps going black for a few frames every couple of minutes.



And that is the issue that Xbox one s has.

I bought the Samsung UBD-K850s from Costco when it hit the price point I was willing to spend. It's a great player. No issues so far. Dual HDMI output which is great for non-2.2 compliant receivers and sound bars



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post #2920 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 09:51 PM
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And that is the issue that Xbox one s has.

I bought the Samsung UBD-K850s from Costco when it hit the price point I was willing to spend. It's a great player. No issues so far. Dual HDMI output which is great for non-2.2 compliant receivers and sound bars



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Do you know if it's an Xbox issue or a vizio issue and if either of them will work to fix it? I like th Xbox because it has an input for my cable tv box so there's no input switching between devices... but I also like having a bluray player that works.

Also, can you explain the dual hdmi benefits? I also have an older receiver. I'm currently using the optical audio out from the vizio to go to my receiver for that reason.
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post #2921 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 10:16 PM
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Do you know if it's an Xbox issue or a vizio issue and if either of them will work to fix it? I like th Xbox because it has an input for my cable tv box so there's no input switching between devices... but I also like having a bluray player that works.
In short, both. without rehashing most of the thread, and others can correct me if I'm wrong, since HDR-10 is so new, and there is not a set standard, each player is allowed, through their own device, to send a specific meta data signal to the TV. The coding that Microsoft used was a little different (aka unique) than everyone else, and has caused issues. This is not Vizio specific, as it has happened across multiple brands.

They are working on a fix, and Vizio has an update to address this due out in a few weeks, if memory of this thread serves me well.



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Also, can you explain the dual hdmi benefits? I also have an older receiver. I'm currently using the optical audio out from the vizio to go to my receiver for that reason.

I too run an optical out from the TV and have no issue with that for gaming and satellite. Having 2 HDMI outputs allows the player to send the video signal to the TV and the uncompressed audio signal to the receiver without running in to compliance issues on the older units. So I now can listen to movies in lossless audio again, which I find extremely satisfying.



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post #2922 of 10276 Old 11-24-2016, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jedurocher View Post
In short, both. without rehashing most of the thread, and others can correct me if I'm wrong, since HDR-10 is so new, and there is not a set standard, each player is allowed, through their own device, to send a specific meta data signal to the TV. The coding that Microsoft used was a little different (aka unique) than everyone else, and has caused issues. This is not Vizio specific, as it has happened across multiple brands.

They are working on a fix, and Vizio has an update to address this due out in a few weeks, if memory of this thread serves me well.






I too run an optical out from the TV and have no issue with that for gaming and satellite. Having 2 HDMI outputs allows the player to send the video signal to the TV and the uncompressed audio signal to the receiver without running in to compliance issues on the older units. So I now can listen to movies in lossless audio again, which I find extremely satisfying.



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Thanks for the info! It's good to know that a fix is in the works.

So do you find that hdmi Audio is superior to optical? I am not an audiophile. I have a jamo 606 surround sound system that works good enough for me... but better audio and a working 4K bluray player would make it a lot easier to return the Xbox,

Also, are you "wowed" with the picture quality of your m series? Thus far I'm "ok" but not overly impressed with the m65-d0, although part of that is due to the issues I've described. I'm debating returning it and spending more for something better. I just read so many reviews before purchasing the m65 and everywhere I read said it was a fantastic bang for your buck and not that much lower picture quality than the p65 or Samsung ks8000... however I'm reading the owner threads for those sets and overall they seem happier with their purchase. Maybe I just need to stick it out and wait for some firmware updates. I only spent $1000 for the set, but part of me wonders if I'd be happier spending 1500-1700 for a really good tv that "wowed" me.
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post #2923 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 01:13 AM
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I have both sets. I would love to be able to list how they compare to each other. But it would just be MY opinion and others may not agree

I can say the Samsung has a lot more picture settings and options that can be assigned to each source automatically. I can spend soo much time tweaking settings it's ridiculous
The vizio has a more simplistic set up I think

The vizio blows my mind how it handles dark scenes and blacks. Streaming doesn't show those blotchy black and grays you sometimes get due to compression
My Samsung also has an intense picture. The colors the brightness and how fluid-like the picture is amazing
Im limited by the tizen os, whereas the android is proving to be limitless.
Again I can go on and on but it's my opinion.

The Samsung is in my basement (man cave) setup for movies and PS4 etc
The vizio is the living room tv for cable and streaming.
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post #2924 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 01:48 AM
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Thanks for the info! It's good to know that a fix is in the works.



So do you find that hdmi Audio is superior to optical? I am not an audiophile. I have a jamo 606 surround sound system that works good enough for me... but better audio and a working 4K bluray player would make it a lot easier to return the Xbox,



Also, are you "wowed" with the picture quality of your m series? Thus far I'm "ok" but not overly impressed with the m65-d0, although part of that is due to the issues I've described. I'm debating returning it and spending more for something better. I just read so many reviews before purchasing the m65 and everywhere I read said it was a fantastic bang for your buck and not that much lower picture quality than the p65 or Samsung ks8000... however I'm reading the owner threads for those sets and overall they seem happier with their purchase. Maybe I just need to stick it out and wait for some firmware updates. I only spent $1000 for the set, but part of me wonders if I'd be happier spending 1500-1700 for a really good tv that "wowed" me.


Any time you can have lossless, non-compressed audio, it is better. Similarly to video. Less compression equals better video.

I love the blacks on this tv, and when watching things like Pacific Rim, to me, the picture quality rivals an OLED. So I do like the tv.


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post #2925 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 05:40 AM
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Can you provide your Vizio source who provided this proof to you? I would like to see the definitive statement.
I never spoke to Vizio about this (not sure why you think I did). I'm just repeating what I've seen around on the forums and in reviews. I've seen conflicting reports of whether it's a 10-bit panel or an 8-bit panel, but regardless, the important part is that set can only produce 8-bit color depth. 10-bin color depth is capable of 1.07 billion colors whereas 8-bit color depth is only capable of 16.78 million colors (huge difference). Even Vizio's site will show you that the M-Series is not a "UCS" display, as the call it (Ultra Color Spectrum). For example, the Vizio P-Series, which *is* a "UCS" display describes "UCS" like this: "Experience a wider range of color and saturation for a vivid and beautiful picture that stays true to the creator's vision." Again, this is how they describe the "UCS" tag, which the M-Series does NOT carry. The P-Series DOES support 10-bit color depth - the M-Series does not - it is only capable of 8-bit color depth. The M-Series also does not support "Wide Color Gamut".

The "HDR" capabilities of a set depends on many things, including both WCG and color-depth (among other things). Simply put, while the M-Series can decode HDR streams, it's not very good at actually displaying them as intended. You can have 2 sets that are both listed as "HDR" sets and one will be way better at displaying HDR than the other. I believe that is why they came up with the "Ultra HD Premium" certification - so that buyers have some idea of how well these sets supports things like HDR.

All of this being said, since I'm officially no longer an M-Series owner, I'll now refrain from posting in this thread anymore. I purchased, exchanged and then eventually returned my M70-D3, primarily due to issues with off-axis viewing (washed out colors and "banding while panning"). I ended up replacing the M70 with an LG OLED set, which suits my needs much better (including solving the viewing angles issues).

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post #2926 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:12 AM
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I never spoke to Vizio about this (not sure why you think I did). I'm just repeating what I've seen around on the forums and in reviews. I've seen conflicting reports of whether it's a 10-bit panel or an 8-bit panel, but regardless, the important part is that set can only produce 8-bit color depth. 10-bin color depth is capable of 1.07 billion colors whereas 8-bit color depth is only capable of 16.78 million colors (huge difference). Even Vizio's site will show you that the M-Series is not a "UCS" display, as the call it (Ultra Color Spectrum). For example, the Vizio P-Series, which *is* a "UCS" display describes "UCS" like this: "Experience a wider range of color and saturation for a vivid and beautiful picture that stays true to the creator's vision." Again, this is how they describe the "UCS" tag, which the M-Series does NOT carry. The P-Series DOES support 10-bit color depth - the M-Series does not - it is only capable of 8-bit color depth. The M-Series also does not support "Wide Color Gamut".

The "HDR" capabilities of a set depends on many things, including both WCG and color-depth (among other things). Simply put, while the M-Series can decode HDR streams, it's not very good at actually displaying them as intended. You can have 2 sets that are both listed as "HDR" sets and one will be way better at displaying HDR than the other. I believe that is why they came up with the "Ultra HD Premium" certification - so that buyers have some idea of how well these sets supports things like HDR.

All of this being said, since I'm officially no longer an M-Series owner, I'll now refrain from posting in this thread anymore. I purchased, exchanged and then eventually returned my M70-D3, primarily due to issues with off-axis viewing (washed out colors and "banding while panning"). I ended up replacing the M70 with an LG OLED set, which suits my needs much better (including solving the viewing angles issues).

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Does 8 bit vs 10 bit even matter? According to a google search, the human eye can only detect about 10 million colors, so even the 8 bit, producing 16.7 million colors, is already producing more colors than the eye can distinguish between. Seems like 10 bit colors is overkill.
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post #2927 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jedurocher View Post
And that is the issue that Xbox one s has.

I bought the Samsung UBD-K850s from Costco when it hit the price point I was willing to spend. It's a great player. No issues so far. Dual HDMI output which is great for non-2.2 compliant receivers and sound bars



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Question regarding the second HDMI audio out functionality. I just bought the M70 and the Samsung K850 from Costco. I have tried unsuccessfully to pump audio to my Pioneer VSX-33 though the audio-only HDMI out. My AVR is several years old with HDMI 1.4, and of course non-4K. I get no audio, and I also get an error on the AVR front panel reading something like HDCP ERROR. I've turned CEC off on the TV, and that doesn't seem to make a difference (K850 feeding signal to TV HDMI 1).

The only way I can get audio is by running optical to the AVR, but of course this limits audio to lossless. I really don't understand this, as the second HDMI out on the player is supposed to only be audio, so why would HDCP even apply? I plan to upgrade my AVR shortly, so that should solve everything when that happens, but was hoping there was something I could do now to get HDMI audio from the K850.
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post #2928 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:29 AM
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Hi Everyone - looking for some advice.

I recently purchased a M55 and coming from a Panny Plasma I am trying to adjust a little to differences in colours and blacks. I think I have tweaked the settings enough where I am happy. I do find that watching hockey or other fast moving sports I am seeing a lag - could just be my eyes

Here is my dilemma. I can get a P55 for $300 more. I know the P55 is an IPS panel but with the additional FALD zones, 120Hz vs. 60Hz and 10 bit vs 8bit (I do see the recent discussion on that) do you feel it is worth an upgrade? The wider viewing angle would be a bonus but would the loss of black with the IPS be noticeable? I do not watch in total dark environment.

I am not a gamer and do not have a UHD source. Mostly cable, bluray, netflix and Kodi streaming.

Thanks for any advice you can give.
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post #2929 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:42 AM
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Quick question for everyone. I bought the m65-d0 with the intention of playing my PlayStation Pro mostly. The more I'm reading about a lack of WCG should I take it back for a different television like the ks8000?
I return my m70 for 65ks8000i couldn't be happier. M series was great for everything non hdr but I can tell you the samsung looks way better with anything hdr. Stay with m series if you don't care about hdr otherwise get the ks8000
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post #2930 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:42 AM
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I think the answer to your question is he doesn't have the set anymore. I ordered my ks8000 for $1197 this morning. Here's what I'm going to do. I have a 90 day return window from Wal Mart, I'm going to play with them both and take back the one I like better. I have a feeling it's going to be the KS8000.
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post #2931 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:43 AM
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Do you know if it's an Xbox issue or a vizio issue and if either of them will work to fix it? I like th Xbox because it has an input for my cable tv box so there's no input switching between devices... but I also like having a bluray player that works.

Also, can you explain the dual hdmi benefits? I also have an older receiver. I'm currently using the optical audio out from the vizio to go to my receiver for that reason.
You can reference earlier posts in the thread for more detail, but basically someone found that turning off CEC on the Vizio fixes the blackout issue and I was able to verify that this does indeed work (I also found that my PS4 Pro via HDMI-1 with sub-sampling enabled would not work as long as my Xbox One S was connected in standby mode to any of the HDMI ports...very strange I know).

As far as the washed out colors, the latest Xbox Prieview Program firmware update release notes claim to address washed out HDR colors with Xbox One S on "certain TVs" (you have to be in the Xbox preview program to receive this build...my standard One is in the preview program but my S isn't so I can't comment on whether or not it fixes anything). Also, as stated earlier, Vizio is about to release a firmware update that claims to address the issue. Will have to wait and see if this does indeed fix the the horrible washed out colors.

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post #2932 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 07:55 AM
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Does 8 bit vs 10 bit even matter? According to a google search, the human eye can only detect about 10 million colors, so even the 8 bit, producing 16.7 million colors, is already producing more colors than the eye can distinguish between. Seems like 10 bit colors is overkill.
www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/gradient

You'll notice that all of sets that are only capable of 8-bit color depth are at the bottom of the ratings list (including the M-Series).

Very informative site (rtings.com). Not only do they give detailed ratings, but they also explain all of the stuff in detail (such as color depth).

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post #2933 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/gradient

You'll notice that all of sets that are only capable of 8-bit color depth are at the bottom of the ratings list (including the M-Series).

Very informative site (rtings.com). Not only do they give detailed ratings, but they also explain all of the stuff in detail (such as color depth).

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Yes but most of those tvs higher up on the list have awful (by comparison to the vizio) blacks and have major blooming issues. So it's like you have to pick your poison unless you can afford the OLED
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post #2934 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 08:31 AM
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I have the same issue between my Vizio M60-D1 and XB1S. The blackout issue happens when the main menu is on screen. But - when I play a UHD, the movie plays fine. No blackout issues at all. So if you can get past the flickering blackout at the main menu, the movies play fine. At least so far in my experience.
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post #2935 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 08:36 AM
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I return my m70 for 65ks8000i couldn't be happier. M series was great for everything non hdr but I can tell you the samsung looks way better with anything hdr. Stay with m series if you don't care about hdr otherwise get the ks8000
How do you feel about the black levels of the samsung? I've read the Vizios are better in dark rooms and watching movies because of the local dimming. Apparently the Samsungs have a lot of problems with bleeding/blooming, for example, when watching a letterbox movie there will be light where there really should be pitch black letter boxes.
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post #2936 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 08:48 AM
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Yes but most of those tvs higher up on the list have awful (by comparison to the vizio) blacks and have major blooming issues. So it's like you have to pick your poison unless you can afford the OLED
You are absolutely correct - there is no "perfect" display. You just have to go with whatever fits your needs the best. Even the OLED set I have now has it's own set of issues. Personally, I didn't feel like dealing with potential LCD backlight bleed-related issues and having to return a set 3 or 4 times to get a "good" one, which was one of the many reasons that I decided to go OLED (there is no backlight to bleed). In my case, it wasn't that much more to go with a 65" OLED compared to the 70" M70-D3 (was about $500 more).

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post #2937 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 08:57 AM
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With the price point of the Ms lately I think this is a great "starter" HDR display. Yes it doesnt have WCG and is only 8 bit but to spend an extra $800-$1000+ for a WCG 10 bit display NOW to me is premature since there is very limited HDR content. I have a strong feeling the 2017 P series which will be out by the spring of next year will make all the current P owners want to upgrade as it WILL be better (even though they say its future proof). And the same can be said for the M series that will drop next summer. I got an OK deal on my M70 in June and I have been thoroughly enjoying this set for several months and not once have i thought man what would a 10 bit panel look like lol. If/when my direct tv starts throwing out 4K/DV/HDR football and/or HBO 4K in a few years I will make the decision to upgrade then as 2020 displays will blow our displays out of the water. If you dont want to upgrade to a new display in 3 or 4 years from now then stick with your current 1080p LCD or buy a M65 for $999 and enjoy the heck out of it.

I just got a nice deal from Khols for the Xbox One S fully knowing that it has issues with the M. Oh well. Not much of a gamer; got it for my kids for minecraft and the lego dimension thingies. Will probably go a stand alone UHD blu-ray device in a year or so. Too bad the xbox cant pass atmos..........
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post #2938 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 09:04 AM
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I return my m70 for 65ks8000i couldn't be happier. M series was great for everything non hdr but I can tell you the samsung looks way better with anything hdr. Stay with m series if you don't care about hdr otherwise get the ks8000
How do you feel about the black levels of the samsung? I've read the Vizios are better in dark rooms and watching movies because of the local dimming. Apparently the Samsungs have a lot of problems with bleeding/blooming, for example, when watching a letterbox movie there will be light where there really should be pitch black letter boxes.
The vizio I feel is good for anything non hdr. The blacks were really good. My samsung has no light bleed the only thing I would say is that watching an hdr movies the black bars are a little lighter than the vizio had but that's to be expected. The samsung really had a profound difference for me with hdr. Again my opinion is that if you don't care about HDR than get the vizio if HDR is what you want then get the samsung
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post #2939 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 09:24 AM
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My recently purchased M65-D0 is giving me headaches due to frequent 'Network Connection Lost' issue. I did all the troubleshooting I could including P-Series forum suggestions. Vizio tech support wants to send a technician. No thanks, I am sending it back to Costco and try my luck with another unit since I love the picture quality and casting (even though that is what I am having issues with). My network is really good by the way, brand new Asus AC-1900 router.

Has anyone else faced the same problem? I have searched through the thread but haven't come across a lot of posts.
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post #2940 of 10276 Old 11-25-2016, 09:25 AM
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Yesterday, I ordered up the M60-D1 deal from Costco. I really wanted the M65 but my budget is a little tight and it would require a new TV stand, too.

I currently own a 2015 M60-C3 that I've been very happy with. I'm a little nervous about the IPS panel in the 2016 model, though. Has that proven to be a really noticeable issue as far as poorer contrast than the VA panel that the rest of the models and my current M60-C3 use? I specifically wanted the HDR capability and twice the number of dimming zones, but I hope the IPS panel doesn't ultimately make me feel like I've downgraded. Everyone in this thread so far has said yes, it will be worse, but it's hard to quantify just how much. I live out in the sticks and I'm not able to go do a visual comparison in person. I've searched the thread for keywords like "M60" "IPS" etc, and it doesn't seem like this is a popular model.

Can anybody who actually owns the M60-D1 variant comment?

Thanks!
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