Sony Announces Z9D FALD-LCD UHDTVs - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 1951 Old 07-25-2016, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post
I'd like them to have 2 or more shootouts. While 65" is the bang for buck sweet spot, it isn't as challenging as the 75" range. I think more than half are concerned about the 65" results. However for those of us wanting something bigger those don't matter to us. I really think it is time they have a 65" range shootout and a 75" range shootout otherwise it is like comparing the BMW 3 series to the BMW 5 series. They have a different set of competitors in those ranges. They don't drive the same, they don't have the same capacity etc.


Which is exactly what Robert at Value Electronics is going to do. He's gonna have 2 different lineups at once, 65s and 75+. But to be honest, the samsung is overpriced as is the 77" oled. The only 2 options anyone who wants near perfection is the 940d or Z9D.
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post #302 of 1951 Old 07-25-2016, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Which is exactly what Robert at Value Electronics is going to do. He's gonna have 2 different lineups at once, 65s and 75+. But to be honest, the samsung is overpriced as is the 77" oled. The only 2 options anyone who wants near perfection is the 940d or Z9D.

Great - now they just need to show motion on a plasma or CRT next to the other TVs during the shootout and we'll finally get scores in every category where they belong. If you are comparing a sloth and a turtle for speed, they'll have similar scores. If you compare a sloth with a cheetah (awake and not at rest) the sloth will get some pretty crappy speed scores (which it deserves).
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post #303 of 1951 Old 07-25-2016, 10:18 PM
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I got through my local pricing from Sony on the 65" and 75" today. Frankly, even before we get the independent testing, I'm in for a 75" as its just too good a deal next to the best I can get 65" LG E6 for, which I was so close to buying prior to this. I also figure in the large and bright living room environment I'll be using it in, the Z9 will be well suited.

EDIT: I just doubled checked the prices sent to me and Sony mistakenly provided me info for the existing X9300D and X9400D models. Still sharp pricing, but obviously not what I want.
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post #304 of 1951 Old 07-25-2016, 11:08 PM
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Don't know if it was posted yet. Didn't see it on the front page but Best Buy has the 100 inch listed at 59,999.98$. Save yourself a whole two pennies.
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post #305 of 1951 Old 07-25-2016, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FromPlasma2LCD View Post
Don't know if it was posted yet. Didn't see it on the front page but Best Buy has the 100 inch listed at 59,999.98$. Save yourself a whole two pennies.


Considering the price of previous 100"+ tvs, its not bad. The 120" Vizio R series was/is 130k.
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post #306 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 02:50 AM
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I wonder how motion blur and lag performance is during game mode . I have a Samsung ju7100 and game mode eliminates lag but makes motion much more blury .... I've been on the hunt for something better ...
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post #307 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Which is exactly what Robert at Value Electronics is going to do. He's gonna have 2 different lineups at once, 65s and 75+. But to be honest, the samsung is overpriced as is the 77" oled. The only 2 options anyone who wants near perfection is the 940d or Z9D.
Yeah this is the boat I'm in. I want to replace my 75x850c with a better 75 inch set, but don't know which way to go. I'm looking forward to this next 75 inch and bigger shootout. All but the ridiculously priced OLED will be in my running...

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post #308 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
The results of the HDTVtest HDR shootout result is in, and the winner is............


Samsung KS9800.

Followed by Panasonic DX902

then the OLED E6


940D coming in last place.


A little surprising by the results, especially since LCD had 80% of the voting. The oled struggled with clipping, and brightness.


The oled however easily won with SDR, winning 80% of the votes.


So by the these results, the Z9D should swoop in and become the best HDR tv almost immediately, and could give oled a run for its money with SDR content with its zillion zones/leds and turbo charged processing. I see alot of complaints with oled owners about the processing (noise on lower sources, blocky blacks, etc). If the new extreme X1 chip greatly improved lower quality sources processing, it could become a major X-factor.
It appears they tested both HDR10 and DV. Since some of the TVs don't do DV, I wonder if maybe they were comparing Apples to Oranges at times. Either way, I think all the TVs are top notch. You can't go wrong with any of them.
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post #309 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 07:50 AM
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With the side by sides, I think it should be boldeded that they were completely Untouched with their out of box standard mode not even a movie mode consideration? Jeez sony.
Not only that, but if I had a TV that looked anything like those 'conventional FALD' displays, I'd toss it out with the garbage. Good grief, my FALD Sony 940c looks nothing like that. In fact it looks far more like the pix from their new design. But if they showed those pix, the new design wouldn't look quite as impressive.

People will continue to fall for these manufacturer demos that are so obviously rigged.
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post #310 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Considering the price of previous 100"+ tvs, its not bad. The 120" Vizio R series was/is 130k.
The Panasonic TH-P103MT2, 103", was $100K when released.

I was so happy without HDR...
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post #311 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 01:58 PM
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Could this be the first UHDTV able to be calibrated for day mode AND night Mode?

Given that if they standardize the UHD content to even 2000 nits... If in effect this is a 4000 nit display... a calibrator has an extra 2000 of range to effectively combat daylight and by setting up the TV for light output and night setting up in the lower end of the range, but still having enough to show the full content brightness without compromise.

I wonder if the latest calibration gear and the TV itself allow for this... if not, Sony could add this through firmware updates?

Comments?

Also want to add that it is a shame for no Dolby Vision support. That could tick many potential buyers who don't want to compromise on the content they can watch. Given that this TV is the Sony flagship and the price tag that comes with it, Dolby Vision support should be there. This, just on specs alone, could be Definitive Dolby Vision TV. Once again, lack of vision in Sony's part. Having said that... If I had $10k to burn on a TV... I would get this without hesitation.

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post #312 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 02:09 PM
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Also wanted to add,

This shows exactly what I thought could be good for a back light. I feel that Backlight Master drive is nothing more than may be a monochromatic 720x480 direct LED display. Simple as that. Each LED is a zone that covers around 24 pixels on the LCD image. Add their LED light focusing technology, the diffusers, polarizing filters, etc and voila!

If that is not the case, this could be what other manufacturers could do. I don't believe this is very hard to engineer as a viable solution. At least until Q-LED TVs become a reality

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post #313 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 02:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post
Also wanted to add,

This shows exactly what I thought could be good for a back light. I feel that Backlight Master drive is nothing more than may be a monochromatic 720x480 direct LED display. Simple as that. Each LED is a zone that covers around 24 pixels on the LCD image. Add their LED light focusing technology, the diffusers, polarizing filters, etc and voila!

If that is not the case, this could be what other manufacturers could do. I don't believe this is very hard to engineer as a viable solution. At least until Q-LED TVs become a reality

That would be to high. They already said it is more or less a conventional back light unit. So if it was 720x480 that would be 345600 LEDs! My guess is:

65: 48x27 for 1296 LEDs/Zones
75: 64x36 for 2304 LEDs/Zones
100: 96x54 for 5184 LEDs/Zones

Also, street pricing for the 65Z9D from reputable places is hitting the UK around 3500-4000 GBP. So around $4600-5200 USD.
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post #314 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
That would be to high. They already said it is more or less a conventional back light unit. So if it was 720x480 that would be 345600 LEDs! My guess is:

65: 48x27 for 1296 LEDs/Zones
75: 64x36 for 2304 LEDs/Zones
100: 96x54 for 5184 LEDs/Zones

Also, street pricing for the 65Z9D from reputable places is hitting the UK around 3500-4000 GBP. So around $4600-5200 USD.
true, that would be high a lot of LEDs.

I just thought of a SD\DVD resolution for the direct LED display as a backlight source. But yeah, it could be a lower resolution of course. 5000 LEDs/zones.. I like that!

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post #315 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post

Also want to add that it is a shame for no Dolby Vision support. That could tick many potential buyers who don't want to compromise on the content they can watch. Given that this TV is the Sony flagship and the price tag that comes with it, Dolby Vision support should be there. This, just on specs alone, could be Definitive Dolby Vision TV. Once again, lack of vision in Sony's part. Having said that... If I had $10k to burn on a TV... I would get this without hesitation.
I have been assuming that there is a substantial royalty to have a TV support "Dolby Vision". I know the royalties in the 2003 time frame for Dolby technologies were a meaningful percentage of the system price. I've also taken business strategy classes where Dolby is an example of a company that has done an excellent job of creating ingredient branding and turning that into a huge licensing revenue stream.

For at TV to support Dolby Vision it will need to have the CPU MIPS available, the right interface, and the DOLBY SW, and a license to the Dolby intellectual property. I would not be surprised to read that Dolby wants 2% or more of the system price as a royalty.

I talked with the Sony "expert" at Magnolia about HDMI2.1 support in the Sony 940D and the new Z series and he did some searching on his tablet and said Sony says it's a SW update to support 2.1. If I were designing the electronics at Sony I'd have designed the HW to support Dolby Vision so I could decide to add the licensing cost and support if it gets traction in the market.

I did a little google work and found that Dolby gets $80K for each Blueray title that gets mastered with their technology. I'm sure in the Dolby vision strategy they get paid on content, player, processor, and TV. Dolby will want a lot in royalties.
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post #316 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
Also, street pricing for the 65Z9D from reputable places is hitting the UK around 3500-4000 GBP. So around $4600-5200 USD.
Please let the USD pricing be accurate!
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post #317 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 04:00 PM
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I have been assuming that there is a substantial royalty to have a TV support "Dolby Vision". I know the royalties in the 2003 time frame for Dolby technologies were a meaningful percentage of the system price. I've also taken business strategy classes where Dolby is an example of a company that has done an excellent job of creating ingredient branding and turning that into a huge licensing revenue stream.

For at TV to support Dolby Vision it will need to have the CPU MIPS available, the right interface, and the DOLBY SW, and a license to the Dolby intellectual property. I would not be surprised to read that Dolby wants 2% or more of the system price as a royalty.

I talked with the Sony "expert" at Magnolia about HDMI2.1 support in the Sony 940D and the new Z series and he did some searching on his tablet and said Sony says it's a SW update to support 2.1. If I were designing the electronics at Sony I'd have designed the HW to support Dolby Vision so I could decide to add the licensing cost and support if it gets traction in the market.

I did a little google work and found that Dolby gets $80K for each Blueray title that gets mastered with their technology. I'm sure in the Dolby vision strategy they get paid on content, player, processor, and TV. Dolby will want a lot in royalties.
I would really like to know if the new HDR10 with dynamic metadata is a mere firmware upgrade from 2.0a or is some form of new hardware needed beyond 2.0a to the HDMI stage? Seems at this point it is unknown.

If this tv is upgradeable to HDR10 dynamic I will be much less concerned of Dolby Vision's absence.
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post #318 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 05:57 PM
 
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Anyone else really hesitant that they are so tight lipped about the number and orientation of these "independent LEDs"?

Jeez, if they get enough of them, they could call it "Crystal LED" again.
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post #319 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 06:12 PM
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Anyone else really hesitant that they are so tight lipped about the number and orientation of these "independent LEDs"?

Jeez, if they get enough of them, they could call it "Crystal LED" again.

Not at all.. sony never discloses zone count.
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post #320 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 06:14 PM
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Please let the USD pricing be accurate!
idk why your basing this off EU pricing when they are already listed on amazon. bestbuy.. hdgregg and every other store for 7 grand for the 65 . the only place thats under is value electronics at 6 grand. meaning thats current MAP price . so if they go onsale off the getgo they will be 6 g
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post #321 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 06:20 PM
 
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idk why your basing this off EU pricing when they are already listed on amazon. bestbuy.. hdgregg and every other store for 7 grand for the 65 . the only place thats under is value electronics at 6 grand. meaning thats current MAP price . so if they go onsale off the getgo they will be 6 g
No, not quite. On Amazon you can currently save $2.
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post #322 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 06:25 PM
 
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Not at all.. sony never discloses zone count.
Well that irks me as well. Just because it's a standard MO doesn't mean that I gotta be psyched about it.
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post #323 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 06:32 PM
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I haven't seen it at that ridiculous price on BB but I went to chat with a great friend ato magnolia, long time employee and told me he heard $30K for the Sony monster 100". That's a big difference.....
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post #324 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 06:42 PM
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I haven't seen it at that ridiculous price on BB but I went to chat with a great friend ato magnolia, long time employee and told me he heard $30K for the Sony monster 100". That's a big difference.....
The Sony "expert" at the Magnolia I visited said the 100" was going to be $66K, at least that was the price posted on the Bestbuy website when he had looked earlier. He looked when I was there Sunday and said the price was no longer posted.
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post #325 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 07:15 PM
 
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idk why your basing this off EU pricing when they are already listed on amazon. bestbuy.. hdgregg and every other store for 7 grand for the 65 . the only place thats under is value electronics at 6 grand. meaning thats current MAP price . so if they go onsale off the getgo they will be 6 g
But they're not. PC Richards, VE and Focus Camera have them listed for $5995. And it is just like the 75X940D that everyone was freaking out because of the $8995 MSRP and sold for $6500 on day one. MSRP are vastly inflated to make the real price seem like a sale when its not. Samsung is even worst with $4000 off MSRP for the 78" on day one.
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post #326 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 07:21 PM
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But they're not. PC Richards, VE and Focus Camera have them listed for $5995. And it is just like the 75X940D that everyone was freaking out because of the $8995 MSRP and sold for $6500 on day one. MSRP are vastly inflated to make the real price seem like a sale when its not. Samsung is even worst with $4000 off MSRP for the 78" on day one.
im going to say watch it start at 6 grand... if im wrong i win

FYI if you work at bestbuy and take all the elearnings they make you take ... you get 50% off current selling price of the tv from when the coupon was printed... if you are a sony expierence expert full time you get 70% instead of the 50
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post #327 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 07:43 PM
 
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im going to say watch it start at 6 grand... if im wrong i win

FYI if you work at bestbuy and take all the elearnings they make you take ... you get 50% off current selling price of the tv from when the coupon was printed... if you are a sony expierence expert full time you get 70% instead of the 50
You already lost. I can buy it from PC Richards for $5998.

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post #328 of 1951 Old 07-26-2016, 11:45 PM
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You already lost. I can buy it from PC Richards for $5998.

ehhh i more or less ment dont expect it to 4grand or 4500$ at launch like some are dreaming about
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post #329 of 1951 Old 07-27-2016, 05:56 AM
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im going to say watch it start at 6 grand... if im wrong i win

FYI if you work at bestbuy and take all the elearnings they make you take ... you get 50% off current selling price of the tv from when the coupon was printed... if you are a sony expierence expert full time you get 70% instead of the 50
Let's say I work for them for 1 week - can I take all the tests during that week and get the 70% off immediately? I've met the people at Best Buy and if their employees can pass it, I would imagine it would be like taking a 3rd grade math test.
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post #330 of 1951 Old 07-27-2016, 06:18 AM
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idk why your basing this off EU pricing when they are already listed on amazon. bestbuy.. hdgregg and every other store for 7 grand for the 65 . the only place thats under is value electronics at 6 grand. meaning thats current MAP price . so if they go onsale off the getgo they will be 6 g
I'm not basing off that. I figure it will go to 6k shortly after release. I have no idea what the 8 week drop will be. I'm hoping that guys prices are correct but I doubt they will be. I have two screenshots that I took when Magnolia and Best Buy put up the prices/product up before the announcement. They were listing $6000
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