OFFICIAL Sony XBR-65Z9D Owner's Thread [no price talk please] - Page 467 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13981 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:01 AM
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Sony has had a partnership with Samba since 2013. It got much worse with the Android 7 update in June.

Samba is automated content recognition software. It monitors whatever is on your screen, categorizes it, and sends your personal info to Samba who in turn sells it to anyone who pays for it. Does Samba send screenshots of what's on your TV for analysis server side, or is the decoding done with the ultra-underpowered Z9D processor? I'm not sure which is worse, but not knowing the answer about what the TV is doing illustrates Sony's transparency problem.

The cover story about Samba being something for consumers because there's a "companion app" is rather comical. This is an Android TV, requiring some pretty sophisticated programming to hide what they're doing, yet they didn't even bother making the "consumer" app for Android. It's ipad only.

XBR-75Z9D fed by Oppo 203. Decrapifying the X1 Extreme

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post #13982 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Taxcheat View Post
Sony has had a partnership with Samba since 2013. It got much worse with the Android 7 update in June.

Samba is automated content recognition software. It monitors whatever is on your screen, categorizes it, and sends your personal info to Samba who in turn sells it to anyone who pays for it. Does Samba send screenshots of what's on your TV for analysis server side, or is the decoding done with the ultra-underpowered Z9D processor? I'm not sure which is worse, but not knowing the answer about what the TV is doing illustrates Sony's transparency problem.

The cover story about Samba being something for consumers because there's a "companion app" is rather comical. This is an Android TV, requiring some pretty sophisticated programming to hide what they're doing, yet they didn't even bother making the "consumer" app for Android. It's ipad only.
Yup, I know what it is but I was looking for information on how it got worse. Vizio and Samsung have their variants that sell user data/behavior as well. At least with the Android 7 update you can opt-out up front.
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post #13983 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
Standard premium certified passive high speed HDMI cable? If the cable is only plugged into the Z9D and not the 8500 do you still get the repeater listed? You could also try and connect the 203 directly to the Z9D for CEC purposes to see if the ADI nonsense shows up. Or unplug everything from the 8500 inputs so just the Z9D and 8500 are connected. In other words, try and see which device is generating the ADI repeater. Keep in mind that you are focusing on ARC but this ADI repeater listing might be associated with CEC and have nothing to do with ARC (is it possible CEC got turned on on the 203?).
I have got ARC working again, finally. . . . Until the next time it inexplicably goes south again, that is.

Here's what additional troubleshooting steps I performed:

1) After clearing the device list and turning off BRAVIA Sync (done before each separate troubleshooting operation) I tried connecting just the Oppo to the TV's HDMI3/ARC input without the AVR in between, as you suggested. This resulted in BRAVIA Sync finding the Oppo with the following duplicative entries:

Device -------------Input -------------Audio System---------- ----Type

Player 1------------HDMI 3-----------connected-------------------UDP-203

Audio System------HDMI 3-----------------------------------------UDP-203

I didn't bother to test out the audio since there were no amp/speakers connected to the Oppo, but I assume ARC would have worked between the two units.

2) Then, following your highlighted advice above, I disconnected all HDMI inputs to the AVR and ran a single HDMI cable from the AVR's Monitor1/ARC connection to the TV's HDMI3/ARC port. This resulted in the following listing:

Device -------------Input --------------Audio System--------------Type

Audio System-----HDMI 3------------------------------------------AVR-X8500H


Eureka! I tested it out by playing the VUDU Atmos Experience demo clips on the TV and got the expected (DD+) Atmos 13.1ch playback on the AVR. I then plugged my other HDMI peripherals (TiVo Roamio Pro, Oppo UDP-203, and Sony BDP-S5200) back into the AVR and double-checked the BRAVIA Sync device list and ARC functionality to make sure that nothing had changed. All good so far.

I still don't know what caused ARC to stop working out of the blue (or where that "ADI Repeater" entry came from) unless it's just ascribable to the well-known quirkiness of CEC/ARC. I'll keep my redundant TV/AVR digital optical connection in place as a fall-back and watch for any recurrence of the audio glitch. If eARC ever comes to the Z9D as well as the X8500H, I would hope that this sort of foul-up would be eliminated. Otherwise, I'll be moving sooner rather than later to a dedicated UHD/HDR-capable media streamer like the Nvidia Shield TV and allow my Z9D to function as a dumb display (just as the SOTA TV gods intended).

And thanks again, bluemoon, for your thoughtful input!
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post #13984 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:43 AM
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Every is update since day one has had samba. If you go into developer mode you can see the process

By worse I mean the errors for disabling it started to appear in the October firmware
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post #13985 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:46 AM
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Not sure what this has to do with dead pixels but id bet white LED's last much longer than Organic LED's.(OLED)


Nothing. Point is nothing is forever and the led lighting and color stability of the z9 is unknown if you ran it 24/7 for 1 year . I doubt Sony is using high end led lighting

Since no one has tested when the z9 gets a blue shift, we don't know if it's bad or not

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post #13986 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Yup, I know what it is but I was looking for information on how it got worse. Vizio and Samsung have their variants that sell user data/behavior as well. At least with the Android 7 update you can opt-out up front.


In the ocotober update if you diabked the service it would start throwing errors - was super annoying - hence worse

Using ADB and uninstall seems necessary now

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post #13987 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 11:54 AM
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In the ocotober update if you diabked the service it would start throwing errors - was super annoying - hence worse

Using ADB and uninstall seems necessary now
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Every is update since day one has had samba. If you go into developer mode you can see the process

By worse I mean the errors for disabling it started to appear in the October firmware
From my understanding that only occurred if you went in and disabled the service then went to do the upgrade. I have updated my Z and 930E numerous times. I enabled it, upgrade, then disable and never had a single issue on either TV.
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post #13988 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Yup, I know what it is but I was looking for information on how it got worse. Vizio and Samsung have their variants that sell user data/behavior as well. At least with the Android 7 update you can opt-out up front.
Sony ignores your opt-out request. Source: my router.

Agreed that LG, Vizio and Samsung are just as bad. There's an active lawsuit on this very issue. If it survives the motion to dismiss (hearing scheduled April 2, mark your calendar), we might find out some fun stuff in discovery.

XBR-75Z9D fed by Oppo 203. Decrapifying the X1 Extreme
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post #13989 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 12:54 PM
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Seeing chi-guy50's issues with ARC reminded me, has anyone figured out how to force the TV to stay on external speakers?

Most of the time when I turn on the system, the TV will say it's internal, then switch to External and everything is fine. Sometimes it decides to mute the receiver. I can turn it off and on and get sound back.

Is there anyway to skip all this nonsense? Perhaps just turning on the receiver first and then delay the TV by 5 seconds? Or does someone have a simpler method?

I'm getting closer to dialing this thing into the way I want it to work slowly, but surely. Thanks.
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post #13990 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 12:56 PM
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Glad to help chi-guy! I think you hit the nail on the head with the CEC quirkiness. eARC can't get here soon enough!
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post #13991 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 01:09 PM
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Sony ignores your opt-out request. Source: my router.
How are you sure it isn't just a heartbeat check that is calling home and it isn't actually sending any user data?

Which addresses did you see it contacting?
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post #13992 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 01:30 PM
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I don't mind them spying on me. Please let the advertisers know what shows I'm watching so they stop getting cancelled.

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post #13993 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jcarys View Post
Seeing chi-guy50's issues with ARC reminded me, has anyone figured out how to force the TV to stay on external speakers?

Most of the time when I turn on the system, the TV will say it's internal, then switch to External and everything is fine. Sometimes it decides to mute the receiver. I can turn it off and on and get sound back.

Is there anyway to skip all this nonsense? Perhaps just turning on the receiver first and then delay the TV by 5 seconds? Or does someone have a simpler method?

I'm getting closer to dialing this thing into the way I want it to work slowly, but surely. Thanks.
Do you have CEC enabled on your receiver? If so, can you turn that off and leave just ARC on? That's what I have done.

I have never been a fan of CEC (although it usually seems to work pretty well for most purposes if both units are of the same brand) since it almost always winds up performing functions I don't want done in certain situations and leaves others unexecuted. I have always been much better served with a programmable universal remote.

The only CEC function worth the trouble is ARC for the sole purpose of getting high-quality audio from your display's apps.
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post #13994 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I have got ARC working again, finally. . . . Until the next time it inexplicably goes south again, that is.

Here's what additional troubleshooting steps I performed:

1) After clearing the device list and turning off BRAVIA Sync (done before each separate troubleshooting operation) I tried connecting just the Oppo to the TV's HDMI3/ARC input without the AVR in between, as you suggested. This resulted in BRAVIA Sync finding the Oppo with the following duplicative entries:

Device -------------Input -------------Audio System---------- ----Type

Player 1------------HDMI 3-----------connected-------------------UDP-203

Audio System------HDMI 3-----------------------------------------UDP-203

I didn't bother to test out the audio since there were no amp/speakers connected to the Oppo, but I assume ARC would have worked between the two units.

2) Then, following your highlighted advice above, I disconnected all HDMI inputs to the AVR and ran a single HDMI cable from the AVR's Monitor1/ARC connection to the TV's HDMI3/ARC port. This resulted in the following listing:

Device -------------Input --------------Audio System--------------Type

Audio System-----HDMI 3------------------------------------------AVR-X8500H


Eureka! I tested it out by playing the VUDU Atmos Experience demo clips on the TV and got the expected (DD+) Atmos 13.1ch playback on the AVR. I then plugged my other HDMI peripherals (TiVo Roamio Pro, Oppo UDP-203, and Sony BDP-S5200) back into the AVR and double-checked the BRAVIA Sync device list and ARC functionality to make sure that nothing had changed. All good so far.

I still don't know what caused ARC to stop working out of the blue (or where that "ADI Repeater" entry came from) unless it's just ascribable to the well-known quirkiness of CEC/ARC. I'll keep my redundant TV/AVR digital optical connection in place as a fall-back and watch for any recurrence of the audio glitch. If eARC ever comes to the Z9D as well as the X8500H, I would hope that this sort of foul-up would be eliminated. Otherwise, I'll be moving sooner rather than later to a dedicated UHD/HDR-capable media streamer like the Nvidia Shield TV and allow my Z9D to function as a dumb display (just as the SOTA TV gods intended).

And thanks again, bluemoon, for your thoughtful input!
My friend had an issue with his AVR and it was related to the Oppo. I guess they have two settings for "HDMI CEC". In his case he could resolve it by setting it to "Limited" instead of "On"
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post #13995 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 05:08 PM
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How are you sure it isn't just a heartbeat check that is calling home and it isn't actually sending any user data? Which addresses did you see it contacting?
The Z9D sends hundreds of outbound requests to flingo.tv, which is the old name for Samba. No idea what it's sending because (a) I block it, (b) I'd have to wireshark it to find out, (c) my low-level skills wouldn't be enough to make sense of it. Anyhow, even if they're only 'heartbeat' connections, that's not proper behavior for what Sony claims is an "opt in" system. Even knowing the operating hours of your tv viewing is valuable data that has no business being sent to a third party after the user's express denial of consent.

I use my Z9D as a monitor for my HTPC. Having software that takes screenshots of things like reading emails is really bad behavior -- part of the lawsuit mentioned above accuses Sony/LG/Samsung of violating the wiretapping statute.

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post #13996 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 06:46 PM
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The Z9D sends hundreds of outbound requests to flingo.tv, which is the old name for Samba. No idea what it's sending because (a) I block it, (b) I'd have to wireshark it to find out, (c) my low-level skills wouldn't be enough to make sense of it. Anyhow, even if they're only 'heartbeat' connections, that's not proper behavior for what Sony claims is an "opt in" system. Even knowing the operating hours of your tv viewing is valuable data that has no business being sent to a third party after the user's express denial of consent.

I use my Z9D as a monitor for my HTPC. Having software that takes screenshots of things like reading emails is really bad behavior -- part of the lawsuit mentioned above accuses Sony/LG/Samsung of violating the wiretapping statute.
If I watch all the traffic on my network I see loads of DNS requests from my Onkyo receivers in two of the rooms and then Discord, Blizzard, and Netflix, even though those apps aren't open on any of my devices. Heck, I even see my router calling home a lot as far as DNS queries.

Among hundreds of queries from Onkyo (they really must be on top of their firmware updates), countless Netflix queries (where the app isn't running on anything), and at least 50 Blizzard queries, I saw fling.tv show up once.
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post #13997 of 22435 Old 03-08-2018, 09:12 PM
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Sounds like I really need to look into disabling all the spyware and whathaveunot on the Z9D. Are they really able to take screenshots of ANY content that you play on it, regardless of source??

Maybe someone could make a separate topic about how to do disable and block as many things as possible on these Sony TVs. Perhaps with a step by step guide for the less technical among us such as myself and also keep it updated if necessary?

I just did some reading about this while doing a random Google search. What has the world of televisions come to? I wish a TV would be like a monitor again, solely used for displaying a picture.

I wonder what role a Sony X800 4K player or a PS4 plays regarding sending data?

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post #13998 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 06:00 AM
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My friend had an issue with his AVR and it was related to the Oppo. I guess they have two settings for "HDMI CEC". In his case he could resolve it by setting it to "Limited" instead of "On"
Yes, Oppo's "Limited" CEC setting only responds to playback control commands originating from the linked device (in addition to enabling ARC). On Denon AVR's, there is a separate ARC setting that can be turned on/off without engaging CEC.
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post #13999 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 07:41 AM
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Does anyone know which sdr preset the sdr to hdr upscaling is inactive on? I've read a couple reviews that had indicated the sdr to hdr upscaling isn't active on all modes, but I haven't seen any modes mentioned. Cinema pro maybe?

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post #14000 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 08:21 AM
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I don't mind them spying on me. Please let the advertisers know what shows I'm watching so they stop getting cancelled.
No question, I would love to see a comeback on 2 and a half men. Just re-watched the series....
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post #14001 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 08:43 AM
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No question, I would love to see a comeback on 2 and a half men. Just re-watched the series....
I'm honestly not sure if you're serious or mocking me. I was thinking more like cult-favorite shows that were cancelled prematurely, not mainstream, popular sitcoms that ran for over 10 years.

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post #14002 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 01:33 PM
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Hello everyone, I'm considering a 75" Z9D and I'm curious how big of a visual upgrade I should expect upgrading from a 73" Mitsubishi 73837 DLP. Will the black levels be better with the Sony? I use my DLP as a PC monitor and really enjoy the fact that there is next to no input lag and it handles motion perfectly. My reservations about getting a Z9D (or about any new 4k TV) is that I'm worried the input lag will be noticeably worse. Do many people use this display as a monitor without problems and not notice the input lag?

But I do really want to experience 4k content and HDR Those new Samsung Q9FN QLEDs look like they will have low input lag and great picture quality (maybe better than the Z9D?), but I don't like the fact that they don't support Dolby Vision or 3D, which is why I'm leaning towards the Z9D. Have the Z9D's held up well reliability-wise?
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post #14003 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 02:37 PM
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Hello everyone, I'm considering a 75" Z9D and I'm curious how big of a visual upgrade I should expect upgrading from a 73" Mitsubishi 73837 DLP. Will the black levels be better with the Sony? I use my DLP as a PC monitor and really enjoy the fact that there is next to no input lag and it handles motion perfectly. My reservations about getting a Z9D (or about any new 4k TV) is that I'm worried the input lag will be noticeably worse. Do many people use this display as a monitor without problems and not notice the input lag?



But I do really want to experience 4k content and HDR Those new Samsung Q9FN QLEDs look like they will have low input lag and great picture quality (maybe better than the Z9D?), but I don't like the fact that they don't support Dolby Vision or 3D, which is why I'm leaning towards the Z9D. Have the Z9D's held up well reliability-wise?


Ha! I had the 73” pre laser version (blanking on the name)

It’s a massive upgrade. You simply can’t compare. Also our 73” dlp only had about 71” useable - the rest was overscan.

The motion was not good either

Will you be blown back yes. Will you head explode - yes if you play games
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The resolution and HDR jump will be significantly better.

Z9D Settings Dolby Vision, Gaming etc
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post56126450
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post #14005 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 06:05 PM
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Hah and here I am still blown away once in a while with my DLP even after having it for 8 years.

How far does the 75 Z9D lean back on its stand? I've noticed that a lot of the Sony TV's lean back a bit. Which is fine with me since I have my TV pretty low, but I'm curious if the angle is different with different models.
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post #14006 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
The specifications are shown as 17-1/4" x 11" on the manufacturer's cutsheet (see below).

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Originally Posted by bytor View Post
Hah and here I am still blown away once in a while with my DLP even after having it for 8 years.

How far does the 75 Z9D lean back on its stand? I've noticed that a lot of the Sony TV's lean back a bit. Which is fine with me since I have my TV pretty low, but I'm curious if the angle is different with different models.
Hey snow dog! See the quoted post from chi-guy that give a drawing that should give you some idea. My Z9D is wall mounted so couldn't tell you directly.

-Jeff-
Man cave: Sony XBR75Z9D, Marantz SR8012, and OPPO UDP-203
Living room: Sony XBR75X950G, Denon x4500, and Sony UBP-X800M2
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post #14007 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 10:15 PM
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Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum and I'm the proud new owner of a 65" z9d! I'm still playing with the settings, have no clue what I'm doing lol and there is Sooooo many pages to try to go through to find a place to begin to find settings. But my other question is, and please don't laugh at me because I'm not up on all the latest an ld greatest tech, but do you think the new Samsung q9f would be a better choice?
I know 2 totally different questions. Sorry!! But I greatly appreciate any help and suggestions you can give. Thanks!
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post #14008 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
Hey snow dog! See the quoted post from chi-guy that give a drawing that should give you some idea. My Z9D is wall mounted so couldn't tell you directly.
Thanks bluemoon! That is helpful, the tilt seems slight enough that it shouldn't be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Darth Vader 2 View Post
But my other question is, and please don't laugh at me because I'm not up on all the latest an ld greatest tech, but do you think the new Samsung q9f would be a better choice?
I ordered the Z9D now and have no regrets. Nobody knows whether the Samsung will be better or not so I wouldn't worry about it. The Z9D has the advantage of 3D and Dolby Vision so even if the picture quality is a little better with the new Samsungs, those features outweigh that for me.
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post #14009 of 22435 Old 03-09-2018, 11:19 PM
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I ordered the Z9D now and have no regrets. Nobody knows whether the Samsung will be better or not so I wouldn't worry about it. The Z9D has the advantage of 3D and Dolby Vision so even if the picture quality is a little better with the new Samsungs, those features outweigh that for me.
IMHO Sony always has the advantage. But I'm a Sony fanboy so yeah...

Taking my X940D off the wall as we speak, I'm expecting my 75Z9D in a couple of hours. Always fun when a new toy arrives.
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post #14010 of 22435 Old 03-10-2018, 05:44 AM
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"the 65Z9 actually has a slow pixel response panel - it indeed ghosts like a mothertrucker, same as the 940E

75Z9 has a different faster panel and is about the same as 900E & 930E in terms of response and little to no ghosting

Rtings did add that tidbit, but its possible to miss it I guess .. no idea why 2 different panels


65Z9 buyers, not knowing this info, got really unlucky IMO"



I'm am worried about what you are saying here, is it so bad ? Are all 65 models the same (sometimes differents panels provider ?)

Is there an owner here who could show it in video?

thanks a lot

Last edited by rboster; 03-10-2018 at 08:33 AM. Reason: price discussion
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