OFFICIAL Sony XBR-65Z9D Owner's Thread [no price talk please] - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 03:30 PM
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I often feel like people don't understand the importance of "deep blacks". If a set, like a plasma or an OLED, can do very deep blacks at the pixel level, then this extends to all colors and allows for high contrast in any portion of the image, and not just the appearance of high contrast. Local dimming is not a (good) replacement for this ability. Some are more convincing than others, but just because a local dimming set can turn the LEDs off in a portion of an image and make the actual color black look good in a lot of situations, is not the same thing as what a plasma or OLED does, or what makes a plasma or OLEDs colors look so good. It is little more than a trick when you're talking about the small amount of zones that the majority of FALD sets have.
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post #122 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I doubt that's a possibility, but I always like to swoop in and see what's happening with the competition since this is as close as it's gonna' get.
It's all about the uniformity mate.
Just imagine watching a movie with no vignetting
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post #123 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jmacc View Post
It's all about the uniformity mate.
Just imagine watching a movie with no vignetting
Or with no blooming, halo'ing, or flash lighting. We could all go on... And this is coming from a person who wants this tv to be great for my next purchase....

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post #124 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:01 PM
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The level of vignetting here is practically imperceptible (the sharper band on the other hand )...

All of this is moot if I've used up my returns at Best Buy and LG deems the TV as within specs.
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post #125 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
I often feel like people don't understand the importance of "deep blacks". If a set, like a plasma or an OLED, can do very deep blacks at the pixel level, then this extends to all colors and allows for high contrast in any portion of the image, and not just the appearance of high contrast. Local dimming is not a (good) replacement for this ability. Some are more convincing than others, but just because a local dimming set can turn the LEDs off in a portion of an image and make the actual color black look good in a lot of situations, is not the same thing as what a plasma or OLED does, or what makes a plasma or OLEDs colors look so good. It is little more than a trick when you're talking about the small amount of zones that the majority of FALD sets have.
This has been pointed out one way or the other many times but folks still ask how are the blacks compared to an OLED and I' not sure they understand there's more to it.

To be fair to the Z9D there has never been a FALD television with such precision, we're going from the low 100s to the thousands of zones. It might do a great job of imitating a self-emissive display.
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post #126 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:11 PM
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The Z9D will be ground breaking for FALD and for LCD period. It will be a very good display, and it will have better processing than not just LG but anyone else because Sony is to Processing right now what FUJITSU was 10 years ago. That said, Transmissive just cannot ultimately compete with Emissive in the long run. That's why everybody has been searching for the next big Emissive thing for the last 15 years from SED, FED, OLED, and now QLED. Either OLED or QLED will be the future at some point. Blacks are not the only benefit of a display where every single pixel emits it's own light instead of using a back light.
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post #127 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I know you folks want all sorts of technical details and pics, but I'm more of a "how does the picture really look" than a technical person. I'm certainly interested is some of the technical details that might affect the picture quality, even if not obvious with a regular image, but ultimately, it's the picture that counts.

The 65 Z9D picture quality is simply incredible. I spend hours watching it last night and this morning. What impressed me most was the depth and clarity of the image. The blacks were truly impressive as was the brightness of the image without any blooming or blown highlights that I could see. Colors were incredibly rich and pure looking. The animated Blu-ray movies I checked never looked better.

I understand that these terms can be nebulous and very subjective. I've heard many people describe a 3D quality to an image. I've never been able to see that, until now. The picture just seems to be more "alive" and "vibrant" than any previous display I've seen. I'm wondering is this appearance is due to the greater local contrast from the master back light drive.

As good as my Sony 950B is (was), the 65Z9D is better. Earlier this year, to get HDR, I purchased the Sony 65" 930D. I knew I was trading FALD on the 950B for Sony's new Slim Backlight Drive. I had hoped it would be good enough. In the store, the 930D looked OK, but didn't cause me to swoon. Sadly, within an hour of setting it up at home, I knew I had made a mistake. The picture was good, but not nearly good enough when compared to my 950B. It lacked a vibrancy and clarity I had come to expect with my 950B. It was returned.

Enter the Z9D. In the store, even with terrible ambient lighting, I sensed a special quality to the image that really excited me. Throughout the evening of viewing many different sources, I was continually saying "wow" to myself. I know this is very subjective, and maybe I'm full of it, but this is one gorgeous display, even better than I expected. I saw absolutely no imperfections. Even if, when you folks do more sophisticated testing that I can do, you find a slight negative, I don't believe it would change my opinion of the image quality.

I'll be interested in hearing what other owners say about this display. I think it's the best set that Sony has every produced.
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post #128 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sharok View Post


I don't think The new Sony TV can match the black level of OLED. It can get very very dark but it is still using back lighting. But again, it remains to be seen in a few days.
This may be correct in theory, but does it really affect the image quality in any significant way? The black levels and color fidelity of my Z9D are so beautiful, it's hard to imagine it being much better. And given what I think is superior shadow detail and motion handling of this set compared to the OLED's I've seen, I can't imagine being more satisfied with any other set.
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post #129 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post
well just got the z9. will be delivered next week. Sorry to see the E6 go but this Z9 is what i wanted. A nice mix between Oled black and LCD brightness plus sony motion processing.
Congratulations. If you've read my posts, you know how excited I am with this set. I hope you like yours as much, and I look forward to reading your impressions.
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post #130 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
The level of vignetting here is practically imperceptible (the sharper band on the other hand )...

All of this is moot if I've used up my returns at Best Buy and LG deems the TV as within specs.
If bestbuy didn't give you a warning verbally or written from your last return I don't see how they can refuse you. Or did they?
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post #131 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Little View Post
This may be correct in theory, but does it really affect the image quality in any significant way? The black levels and color fidelity of my Z9D are so beautiful, it's hard to imagine it being much better. And given what I think is superior shadow detail and motion handling of this set compared to the OLED's I've seen, I can't imagine being more satisfied with any other set.
Larry, would it be possible for you to run that LED zone test video posted earlier in this thread to try to count the horizontal and vertical number of zones on this set? Would be immensely appreciated.
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post #132 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:03 PM
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The level of vignetting here is practically imperceptible (the sharper band on the other hand )...

All of this is moot if I've used up my returns at Best Buy and LG deems the TV as within specs.
I can vouch for LG. If you are not satisfied with your set for something that you see as a defect, they will not pull that "within spec" rubbish. They will send someone out who will verify what you are seeing. They will offer you a replacement in order to make you happy. If you don't want that, request a refund for the price you paid, which is what I did. It took awhile to actually get my money back but I eventually did. Sony is not so kind when it comes to these types of issues, which is why I am waiting to buy from a retailer in case problems arise with the ZD9 - even if I have to pay a few hundred extra.

Just be sure that you deal with LG VIP support and that they send out an actual technician that works for LG. Not the third-party shops. They sent me to them first and the guy was a real prick and told me there was nothing he could do.
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post #133 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
The Z9D will be ground breaking for FALD and for LCD period. It will be a very good display, and it will have better processing than not just LG but anyone else because Sony is to Processing right now what FUJITSU was 10 years ago. That said, Transmissive just cannot ultimately compete with Emissive in the long run. That's why everybody has been searching for the next big Emissive thing for the last 15 years from SED, FED, OLED, and now QLED. Either OLED or QLED will be the future at some point. Blacks are not the only benefit of a display where every single pixel emits it's own light instead of using a back light.
You\ are forgetting MicroLED. 99% of the surface area is black.

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/n...-led-display-0
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post #134 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:07 PM
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If bestbuy didn't give you a warning verbally or written from your last return I don't see how they can refuse you. Or did they?
Yes, assistant manager told me to go through the manufacturer on latest request. That's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm very particular with uniformity anomalies.
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post #135 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:10 PM
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Question for new owners of the Sony XBR-65Z9D : is there a setting that processes incoming native HD 1920x1980 material to increase specular brightness and expand its native color gamut closer to WCG, so as to give the incoming HD signal a "faux" UHD look, as Samsung offers on its 2016 UHDTV line ?

I am planning to purchase a Sony XBR-75Z9D by the end of the year when pricing hopefully should drop to more affordable levels, but i have no intention of buying a UHD disc player and having to pay an average of $30 per disc when i am already extremely satisfied with the picture of standard blu ray discs. No more "double-dipping" for me, i have played this game for over 30 years now and refuse to do it any longer.

So, in my case and i suspect for many/many other prospective buyers of UHDTV sets, the ability to use some of these pictures improvements on standard HD content is indeed very important.

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post #136 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:11 PM
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I can vouch for LG. If you are not satisfied with your set for something that you see as a defect, they will not pull that "within spec" rubbish. They will send someone out who will verify what you are seeing. They will offer you a replacement in order to make you happy. If you don't want that, request a refund for the price you paid, which is what I did. It took awhile to actually get my money back but I eventually did. Sony is not so kind when it comes to these types of issues, which is why I am waiting to buy from a retailer in case problems arise with the ZD9 - even if I have to pay a few hundred extra.

Just be sure that you deal with LG VIP support and that they send out an actual technician that works for LG. Not the third-party shops. They sent me to them first and the guy was a real prick and told me there was nothing he could do.
Nope, already went through LG VIP and a tech visit and was met with a "work order closed" because they apparently don't have any confidence that they can consistently provide a better picture. Also didn't offer a refund. I had an EF9500 replaced through a manufacturer authorized return at Best Buy earlier in the year, so maybe they think I'm an impossible customer and put their foot down for that reason.

There are no local LG technicians within 50 miles, so I had to accept third party. No matter, he acknowledged what I saw and I supported it with an exhibit of images and full motion video forwarded to LG signature service, but still got shut down. He did claim that he (or LG) wouldn't provide a screen replacement for the problem I was seeing. I have to wonder if he downplayed my complaint in his report even though he acknowledged it to my face.

The LG VIP rep then claimed there was nothing else that could be done. I practically hung up on him. If I scream for a refund, maybe that would make a difference. I'm not so sure.

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post #137 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:50 PM
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I'm very particular with uniformity anomalies.
You're gonna love the uniformity of your new Z9D after you put the OLED up for sale in the classifieds
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post #138 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:54 PM
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From what I was told they won't just keep replacing sets if you're not satisfied. You'll get one, but that's it. They didn't bring up financial compensation as an option. I was the one who did that. They pushed for a replacement but I told them no because it's likely that it will also have the same issue. They understood. It wouldn't hurt to try.

As for Best Buy, I was never verbally told by anyone that I can't return anything. They made me sign a receipt agreeing that I would not be allowed to return anything for 90 days because it triggered a red flag with that retail equation company they use to track your habits.

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post #139 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 05:59 PM
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^Yea, it won't hurt...though maybe he put in a bad note for me like "irate customer" on the last interaction, lol. As for Best Buy, at least one of those returns was justifiable with a clearly obvious cluster of stuck red subpixels. In my case, I think they instructed me to go through the manufacturer because of them taking losses on the two other returns (uniformity complaints visible to the more particular among us and in a dark environment, so hard to reproduce on the spot). They informed me they take a hit on those instead of them getting sent back to the manufacturer. I wonder how true that is (since I haven't seen my open box items on the sales floor).
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You're gonna love the uniformity of your new Z9D after you put the OLED up for sale in the classifieds
Touche'. In such a hypothetical scenario, it would have to be for the 75".

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post #140 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:20 PM
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So I thought there were at least two people who got thier Z9 this week. Where are they. How come no pics...sheesh. When I get mine guys prepared to be bombarded with pics.......lol
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post #141 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:24 PM
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So I thought there were at least two people who got thier Z9 this week. Where are they. How come no pics...sheesh. When I get mine guys prepared to be bombarded with pics.......lol


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post #142 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:24 PM
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I returned two Samsung f8500 plasmas. One because of a dead pixel that they confirmed and one because of loud buzzing. Both were on sale within a matter of days. Even indicating that it had a dead pixel in the description. I am not sure how the business works, but I seriously doubt they just "eat" every set that is returned to them.

My two biggest issues have always been uniformity and DSE. Not sure how the Sony is in that regard, as no one has brought it up. But my OLED was virtually free of it.

We need some more pictures!
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post #143 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:39 PM
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post #144 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post

To be fair to the Z9D there has never been a FALD television with such precision, we're going from the low 100s to the thousands of zones. It might do a great job of imitating a self-emissive display.
Yeah, i meant to mention that im not even necessarily talking about the Z9D in particular, but just the way people talk about blacks makes me think that they don't quite get it.
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post #145 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Question for new owners of the Sony XBR-65Z9D : is there a setting that processes incoming native HD 1920x1980 material to increase specular brightness and expand its native color gamut closer to WCG, so as to give the incoming HD signal a "faux" UHD look, as Samsung offers on its 2016 UHDTV line ?

I am planning to purchase a Sony XBR-75Z9D by the end of the year when pricing hopefully should drop to more affordable levels, but i have no intention of buying a UHD disc player and having to pay an average of $30 per disc when i am already extremely satisfied with the picture of standard blu ray discs. No more "double-dipping" for me, i have played this game for over 30 years now and refuse to do it any longer.

So, in my case and i suspect for many/many other prospective buyers of UHDTV sets, the ability to use some of these pictures improvements on standard HD content is indeed very important.
Here here, I second that! Thanks for your question.
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post #146 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Little View Post
This may be correct in theory, but does it really affect the image quality in any significant way? The black levels and color fidelity of my Z9D are so beautiful, it's hard to imagine it being much better. And given what I think is superior shadow detail and motion handling of this set compared to the OLED's I've seen, I can't imagine being more satisfied with any other set.
Larry I think you're right about the theory and what we can actually see. I don't care about theory either. It makes no difference what tech is being used, what matters is the result and what we see on the screen. If master backlight is superior, then that is what I want.

When you said the black on this TV is very deep, I did not know how to interpret "very deep".

Did you mean absolute black (OLED like) or very deep with a very little cloud (light leak).

But After reading this post, I think you meant OLED like black (absolute black) and I hope I'm right (Please confirm that). I'm not worried about color processing, scaling, near black, shadow detail, ... I believe Sony does an excellent job in those areas (maybe the best).

Again, I hope the black level matched OLED on this set. Assuming that you've seen an OLED set before so you can compare.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.
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post #147 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Nope, already went through LG VIP and a tech visit and was met with a "work order closed" because they apparently don't have any confidence that they can consistently provide a better picture. Also didn't offer a refund. I had an EF9500 replaced through a manufacturer authorized return at Best Buy earlier in the year, so maybe they think I'm an impossible customer and put their foot down for that reason.

There are no local LG technicians within 50 miles, so I had to accept third party. No matter, he acknowledged what I saw and I supported it with an exhibit of images and full motion video forwarded to LG signature service, but still got shut down. He did claim that he (or LG) wouldn't provide a screen replacement for the problem I was seeing. I have to wonder if he downplayed my complaint in his report even though he acknowledged it to my face.

The LG VIP rep then claimed there was nothing else that could be done. I practically hung up on him. If I scream for a refund, maybe that would make a difference. I'm not so sure.
Just curious if you purchased this on a credit card, would your CC company back you up?
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post #148 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 06:57 PM
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Best Buy's CC, so conflict of interest there (I'm thinking not, even if it is financed by Citi).
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post #149 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 07:01 PM
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Best Buy's CC, so conflict of interest there (I'm thinking not, even if it is financed by Citi).
I'm not sure. Is it Visa or MC? I have a merchant card account- my understanding is that generally the customer is almost always right and they'll refund a buyer money for up to a year, if he complains. If it's a BB in house card, then no, won't work.
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post #150 of 22259 Old 08-12-2016, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
You\ are forgetting MicroLED. 99% of the surface area is black.

http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/n...-led-display-0
Yeah I forgot about that one, Crystal LED (CLEDIS). Sony may potentially make a consumer one in the future, but it's primarily their proprietary thing so if it even makes it to a Flatpanel TV it will be strictly a Sony thing. Everyone else is either gonna go with OLED or QLED unless something else comes out of the shadows.
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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flicker , sony xbr-75z9d , sync , XBR-65Z9D , xbr-940d

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