OFFICIAL Sony XBR-65Z9D Owner's Thread [no price talk please] - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Egan View Post
I don't but I'm not yet a 4K HDR set owner so it's still down the road for me. If my plasma had issues the 75Z9D would be mine.
Sounds like its time for an "accident" lol
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post #2612 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post
Can you please measure DCI-P3 and REC.2020 coverage? Thanks
I don't have a HDR signal generator; my signal is from htpc, rgb444 8bit 2160p60 signal.
On the TV I set "color space" to rec2020. No other changes.

Running a quick profile in displaycal shows the following for dci coverage, I wouldn't know how to calculate/measure 2020 coverage %.

I think when I tried to test, I did the same...but then also tried with turning HDR on, and turning on the color option that expands luminance and finesse and got a broader reading doing that...seems like the more settings that are tweaked the broader the coverage
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post #2613 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Sounds like its time for an "accident" lol
I almost created an "accident" by doing a circuit board swap on it a few weeks ago but everything went well darn it lol. Now it looks better than ever after doing a 2 pt gray scale cal on it. But I definitely see a Z in my future and am soaking up all the info here.
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post #2614 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
do you know if there are free HDR h264/mkv patterns files out there? Maybe if we could play them off usb stick directly on the TV it could be a cheap way to at least do rough HDR calibrations for us hobbyists
Have a look at these https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...-patterns.html

Not free but pretty cheap at 25 bucks.
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post #2615 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 03:53 PM
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TLDR: If you're just here for quick settings that work with a wide variety of content, input the Cinema Home HDR settings in HDR mode, and then in SDR mode set gamma to -1 or -2 depending on preferene, and brightness to whatever looks good to you, probably 10 or less.

--
Here's my calibrated settings, measurements, and observations for the Sony XBR 65" z9d.

I'll say right away this is the best TV I have owned. Whether its the overall picture uniformity, near black response, superb motion, or amazing black levels with no/minimal blooming the z9d brings it all to the table. Not once have I considered returning this TV, and I've finally and happily unsubscribed from threads for competing TV's and technologies.

My set has near perfect uniformity and almost no DSE with local dimming off. Turning local dimming on eliminates any observable picture uniformity issues.

The local dimming itself brings the black levels down to an amazing darkness. Not quite the completely off pixels that OLED can manage, but close enough that it doesn't matter. The smoothness and control the z9d exhibits coming out of black and in shadow detail trumps anything possible on OLED. Take Interstellar for example, at 23:15 through 23:20 they are driving on the dark forest road to find NASA. On my old OLED the top of the tree in the foreground was crushed into the overall blackness of the picture. The z9d has no such problems, the scene is appropriately dark, but the foreground details are superbly rendered. It was possible to get this detail to show on my EF9500, but other scenes in the movie, such as the beginning of Ch8 when they fly past Saturn would look poor, with tons of dithering and noise in the darkness of space, and poor detail on the shadow on Saturn. The z9d delivers a great picture without compromise across the entire film.

There are plenty of other examples such as the motorcycle chase in Dark Knight Rises, where the z9d delivers excellent black levels, coupled with outstanding shadow detail which I haven't seen on any other TV at any price point.

Motion is outstanding, with slow pans exhibiting no jitter or choppy motion prevalent in sample and hold displays, and zero SOE is introduced when using motion flow Custom with smoothness set to minimum and clearness set to 1.

Like almost any other modern TV, grayscale and color response can be calibrated to near perfect results. The z9d does have some issues in this area. The 10pt controls respond differently depending on the contrast setting. More interestingly, when local dimming is turned on, the 10pt white balance controls do not act like any other I have seen elsewhere. It's a bit esoteric and I do not fully understand what is going on or why.

As a result, I've done my calibration using only 2pt white balance controls. I was able to get a picture which measures and looks excellent with this approach and I somewhat hesitate to even go through the bother of creating a 3dlut.

For anyone that really wants to geek out on this topic, go to this post -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post46566377

The out of the box performance is excellent, with almost no adjustment being needed in Custom picture mode for great measured results. The default color temperature for "expert 1" is a little on the cool side, many owners may prefer the cooler picture, but with a little bit of work we can bring white balance towards reference d65.

Calibrated SDR Settings
Picture Mode Custom (or cinema home or cinema pro)
Brightness
  • Brightness 5 (100nit)
  • Contrast Max
  • Gamma -1 (results in measured gamma 2.3. Use -2 for gamma 2.4)
  • Black Level 50
  • Black Adjust Off (on makes shadow transitions "sharper", can destroy shadow detail)
  • Adv. Contrast Enhancer Off (can enhance picture in many cases, sometimes causes loss of shadow detail. Start with low and experiment with what you like)
  • Auto Local Dimming Medium (high doesnt seem to do much, if anything)
  • Xtended Dynamic Range Off (anything but off engages a "fake HDR" mode. Try Low and see if you like it)

Color

  • Color 50
  • Hue 0
  • Color Temperature Expert 1
  • Adv Color Temperature
  • R,G,B Gain Max, Max, -4
  • R,G,B Bias -2,0,-3

10pt controls
Color point 10
R,G,B Offset -4,0,3

Note, confirmed 10pt controls are broken. Zero out for now.

  • Live Color Off (over-saturates colors)

Clarity
  • Sharpness 50
  • Reality Creation Off (set to your preference, this is most likely the advanced upscaling. Auto does a pretty good job, but can introduce some noise)
  • Random noise reduction Off (can soften picture)
  • Digital noise reduction Off (can soften picture)
  • Smooth Gradation Low (turn on if you see banding in, e.g. the sky in movies. Low seems to reduce banding without destroying detail. Turn off if you're a purist)

Motion
  • Motionflow Custom
  • Smoothness Min (avoids introducing SOE)
  • Clearness 1 (enables black frame insertion, for superb motion detail. Note: for maximum usable motion resolution while retaining picture quality, set brightness to max and clearness to 3. This may introduce visible flicker. Clearness higher than '3' not recommended due to flicker and lack of brightness)
  • Cinemotion Low (turns on detection of 24fps content in 60hz signal.)

Video Options
  • HDR Mode Auto
  • HDMI Video Range Auto
  • Color Space Auto



HDR CALIBRATION
I used R.Masicor's UHD calibration patterns which can be found on this forum here -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post50201849

In the full pattern set he has a set of patterns which have metadata for different max nit values of 1,000, 4,000, and 10,000. Unfortunately it looks like zd9 ignores this metadata and outputs full brightness regardless. So with max backlight, each of these patterns was measuring around 1800nit.

What I think this means for calibration is that we just need to get a set of settings that targets three goals: maximize light output of 100%, minimize white clipping as much as possible, hit brightness targets along the target curve.

For the third one, I focused on 20% (2.465nit) 50% (94.37nit), and 65% (384.7nit). Regardless of picture mode, the TV seems to start rolling off the brightness and intentionally going off target to get more grayscale coverage before clipping.

Cinema Pro HDR Settings
Cinema Pro
Brightness Max
Contrast 86
Gamma 0
Black Level 50
Black Adjust Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer Off (same as above, set to your own preference)
Auto Local Dimming Medium
XDR High
Color 50
Hue 0
Color Temp Expert 1
R Gain Max
G Gain Max
B Gain -4
R Bias -2
G Bias 0
B Bias -3

Sharpness 50
Reality Creation Auto
Noise Reduction Off
Smooth Gradation Low
Motionflow True Cinema
Cinemotion Low

Cinema Pro Contrast and max nits
Contrast / 100%white 10% window nits
100 / 1834
90 / 1834
85 / 1834
80 / 1829
75 / 1825
70 / 1770

Based on the above, and the 80%-100% white clipping pattern I settled on a Contrast setting of 86 in Cinema Pro. This results in white clipping at around 84% white on that pattern.

Calibration results



Out of box





Cinema Home HDR Settings
Brightness Max
Contrast 95
Gamma 0
Black Level 50
Black Adjust Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer Off (same as above, set to your own preference)
Auto Local Dimming Medium
XDR High
Color 50
Hue 0
Color Temp Expert 1
R Gain Max
G Gain Max
B Gain -4
R Bias -2
G Bias 0
B Bias -3

Sharpness 50
Reality Creation Auto
Noise Reduction Off
Smooth Gradation Low
Motionflow True Cinema
Cinemotion Low

Cinema Home Contrast and max nits
Contrast / 100%white 10% window nits
100 / 1854
90 / 1860
85 / 1860
80 / 1861
78 / 1815
75 / 1701
70 / 1387

Calibration results



Out of box


HDR Tone Mapping Data
I went back and looked at Custom mode in HDR, it looks like Custom actually does hard clip instead of tone mapping. Based on the data below however, Custom would benefit from 10pt white balance adjustments to track the reference curve a little better, but the controls are broken.

Ideal Contrast levels:
Cinema Home: 95
Cinema Pro: 86
Custom: 86

Source data:


Here's some visualizations. I wish I had a pattern generator so that I could take measures in smaller increments than 5% at and above 1000nit, but the 20pt patterns is all I have for now. No idea why 100% in Cinema Home dropped off, it should have flatlined at the end. It might just be variation in the display, or maybe a decoding error? It doesn't matter, theres no 10,000nit content and nobody is going to be able to tell the difference between a 1856nit highlight and a 1733nit highlight in motion





We can get tone mapping which preserves detail up to 4000nits by setting contrast to 90 in Cinema Home mode (exposing all details in clouds in Sony Camp demo) but this comes at the cost of the rest of the curve being quite a bit darker than it should be, and you risk crushing shadow details



If for whatever reason someone wants to emulate a 1000nit mastering display with no tone mapping and clipping at 1000nit, the closest we can get is to use:
Picture mode Custom
Contrast 100
Brightness 10


OTHER OBSERVATIONS
Spectral distribution


Gamut Coverage
100% DCI volume. Wow!

Note: Signal from htpc, rgb444 8bit 2160p60 signal. On the TV I set "color space" to rec2020. No other changes.


Maximum Light output
Not much to say here besides quoting another user on the forum that this TV is a "light cannon".

Note: HDR on, xdr high, local dimming medium, backlight max, contrast max

100% white 810nit
15% white 1314nit
1% white 2032nit

SDR signal, interaction between BFI (motionflow custom: clearness setting) and maximum light output. For people wanting to maximize "clearness", the best combination of settings without introducing potential unwanted effects would be to leave XDR off and use clearness 2 or 3 with brightness at maximum.


Native Contrast Ratio (using settings above and full fields)
Amazing native contrast, with local dimming on the picture takes on a superb dimensionality and lifelike 3d quality.

Native Contrast (Local dimming off)
Black 0.017
White 106
Contrast Ratio 6314

DSE Test
Barely any DSE to speak of, I can't see it in normal content.
Note: local dimming off

Smearing tests
Both tests were taken with my iphone6 using super slowmo video recording to try and capture any smearing which may be present.

motionflow custom, smoothness 0, clearness 1

motionflow truecinema

Near black uniformity
Excellent, basically perfect and no defects noticed in real content.


Blooming/haloing (local dimming medium)
The sweet spot is around 20-30 degrees. Sitting outside the sweet spot can cause black bars in movies to become a little brighter. Extreme angles are not great. Head on there is almost no blooming whatsoever.





Calibration measurements
Excellent results with minimal adjustments. You can download my full HCFR measurements file in the attachments below.


Out of the box performance
Factory reset to Cinema Pro mode, color temperature Expert 1. No other changes. White balance is on the cool side, causing higher de in grayscale, but otherwise the picture is quite good.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Color Measures1.zip (4.6 KB, 364 views)
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Last edited by 10k; 02-28-2018 at 01:23 AM. Reason: added tone mapping data
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post #2616 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
do you know if there are free HDR h264/mkv patterns files out there? Maybe if we could play them off usb stick directly on the TV it could be a cheap way to at least do rough HDR calibrations for us hobbyists
Hdr patterns are available in the display calibration section from avs member mascior. There are free sample 5% size patterns to try but buying the full suite is well worth it.
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post #2617 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 04:16 PM
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If you want to check out your shadow detail, check out "Jungle Book 3D". I'm curious how it looks on OLED also. I'd ask Samsung 2016 owners but their sets don't do 3D.
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Last edited by Bill; 09-05-2016 at 04:23 PM.
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post #2618 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 04:18 PM
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If you want to check out your shadow detail, check out "Jungle Book 3D". I'm curious how it looks on OLED. I'd ask Samsung 2016 owners but their sets don't do 3D.
i am not a fan of 3D unfortunately. I never even unpacked the glasses that came with the tv
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post #2619 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Spectral distribution
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This picture showing the color spectrum distribution of the Sony WCG LED backlight used on the XBR-ZD9 series looks very/very similar to the picture of the color spectrum of the Sony XBR-940C posted on its review done by HDFever, the French online A/V publication.

I am including the picture of the Sony LED backlight color spectrum for both sets as well as a comparison picture of the color spectrum of quantum dots used on the Hisense XT910 taken by the same publication.

Looking at these pictures i wish the company had continued using quantum dots for backlight as Sony did in the recent past instead of changing to a "better" solution like phosphor-coated WCG LEDs, even considering how well received and spectacular as the color spectrum of current Sony flagship sets may be.
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Name:	Native Color Spectrum Sony XBR-65ZD9 Color.png
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Name:	Native Color Spectrum Sony XBR-940C.jpg
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Name:	Native Color Spectrum Hisense XT910.jpg
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post #2620 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 05:26 PM
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Well I just posted this on the OLED section but I think it's also revelant here as well. I'm hoping many of you here can confirm and tell me if you are experiencing similar issues when it comes to motion handling on other displays not just the OLED's. Also I know some of you here have swapped out or upgraded your current display for this very new top of the line LED/LCD display the ''Z9'' and I would like to here your take on the motion handling. Now as for myself I'm coming from the Sharp ELITE Pro, and from what I call tell the motion handling it very similar or the same as the ''Z9''.

So I was just at BB viewing several LG OLED's including the top of the line 6G today. I was checking out the motion handling and it remains a rather big problem for me.
I made sure and turned off all the motion enhancements but it still didn't look any good. Now I know some Judder is normal on 25pfs content but this was way to high very abnormal way to much Judder going on here it was way out of control. And this wasn't the only issue I saw that bothered me, I saw very bad motion trailing. This was was very obvious and distracting to me, it just wasn't something I could ignore. Now I'm not sure if it's something similar to Plasma trailing but whatever it was I didn't like it and found it very distracting. It looked like a motion streek or phosphor trail but do OLED's have them as well?

Also I realize their may be other factors going on here as well that can explain what I'm seeing such as my sensitively to motion artifacts or that some other people are used to these kind of motion artifacts and just don't notice them anymore? Or perhaps some can choose to choose to ignore them or grow accustomed to them over time?

So as I sad I'm coming form a Sharp ELITE Pro and the motion is spot on, and I know other top end displays like the ''Z9'' can be just as good but I'm just really confused as to why these top of the line OLED's can't do as good for me on the 24pfs motion and I'm seeking answers. I know other who have come forward to say they can see the same issues as me so I know I'm not alone! So unless I could get used to these motion artifacts, (highly unlikely) these awesome looking OLED's or other displays having the same motion artifacts are just not going to fly with me.

I of course will continue to look into this and observe other display mainly the OLED's since I believe that's the future. Meanwhile I will try arrange for a viewing with a side by side comparison so I can better discribe what I'm seeing and figure out what's going on. Anyway I guess this is all mute for some of you because if you don't see what I'm trying to discribe here then it's probably for the better.
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post #2621 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post
Well I just posted this on the OLED section but I think it's also revelant here as well. I'm hoping many of you here can confirm and tell me if you are experiencing similar issues when it comes to motion handling on other displays not just the OLED's. Also I know some of you here have swapped out or upgraded your current display for this very new top of the line LED/LCD display the ''Z9'' and I would like to here your take on the motion handling. Now as for myself I'm coming from the Sharp ELITE Pro, and from what I call tell the motion handling it very similar or the same as the ''Z9''.

So I was just at BB viewing several LG OLED's including the top of the line 6G today. I was checking out the motion handling and it remains a rather big problem for me.
I made sure and turned off all the motion enhancements but it still didn't look any good. Now I know some Judder is normal on 25pfs content but this was way to high very abnormal way to much Judder going on here it was way out of control. And this wasn't the only issue I saw that bothered me, I saw very bad motion trailing. This was was very obvious and distracting to me, it just wasn't something I could ignore. Now I'm not sure if it's something similar to Plasma trailing but whatever it was I didn't like it and found it very distracting. It looked like a motion streek or phosphor trail but do OLED's have them as well?

Also I realize their may be other factors going on here as well that can explain what I'm seeing such as my sensitively to motion artifacts or that some other people are used to these kind of motion artifacts and just don't notice them anymore? Or perhaps some can choose to choose to ignore them or grow accustomed to them over time?

So as I sad I'm coming form a Sharp ELITE Pro and the motion is spot on, and I know other top end displays like the ''Z9'' can be just as good but I'm just really confused as to why these top of the line OLED's can't do as good for me on the 24pfs motion and I'm seeking answers. I know other who have come forward to say they can see the same issues as me so I know I'm not alone! So unless I could get used to these motion artifacts, (highly unlikely) these awesome looking OLED's or other displays having the same motion artifacts are just not going to fly with me.

I of course will continue to look into this and observe other display mainly the OLED's since I believe that's the future. Meanwhile I will try arrange for a viewing with a side by side comparison so I can better discribe what I'm seeing and figure out what's going on. Anyway I guess this is all mute for some of you because if you don't see what I'm trying to discribe here then it's probably for the better.
What I noticed with my g6 was that I would still get a handful of jutter and sometimes I felt like the processing was just having a hard time keeping up...that being said I couldn't necessarily verify if that was the tv at fault or my oppo bd player...but seeing as though oppo has been tried and true and oled is still in its infancy I'd say it was the tv...and for me at least the problem seemed more occurring if the screen was set at a higher light output. I do really feel like the Sony handles motion a lot better. There are aspects I miss from my g6, especially the wand remote and os platform, but this tv does well enough with black levels and color and fidelity that I'm not actually missing the absolute blacks as much as I thought I would be
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post #2622 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
Well looks like my local BB just put up the Z...headed there for a first hand account


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I was in my local BB today and found it interesting that they had a 65" ZD9 on display in the main BB store right above a 930D, but a 75" 940D in the Magnolia section near the LG OLED E6 and G6

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post #2623 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 06:03 PM
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I was in my local BB today and found it interesting that they had a 65" ZD9 on display in the main BB store right above a 930D, but a 75" 940D in the Magnolia section near the LG OLED E6 and G6
That's all set according to planograms. Some stores go rogue and put TVs up in spots that make "sense," but, most stores will have the setup you described.

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post #2624 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 06:32 PM
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OFFICIAL Sony XBR-65Z9D Owner's Thread [no price talk please]

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Originally Posted by Ngerstman View Post
...
The z fails the door slam test. Regards. Ned.


Well, good thing we're not driving these sets anywhere. I'm glad I'm not paying out the nose for some non-functional flashy exterior design. I like knowing the money for this set goes to where it counts; the ridiculously amazing picture.


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post #2625 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Here's my calibrated settings, measurements, and observations for the Sony XBR 65" z9d.



...


Calibrated Settings

Picture Mode Custom



Why custom and not one of the cinema modes?



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post #2626 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 07:26 PM
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Why custom and not one of the cinema modes?
i actually measured cinema pro with the same settings as custom afterwards and it measured within normal variation (<1de) from custom mode.

I think cinema is basically just a different preset but you can make the modes act the same.
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post #2627 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Little View Post
Yup. There's nothing like super exaggerated hyperbole to stir the blood. I actually composed a response to that comment, posted it, and then deleted it. Didn't want to go to that level.

I'm very happy with the frame and completely trust it's sturdiness. My joins are perfectly aligned and there in no movement. It sounds like some here have defective sets with offset joins and movement when pressed. I recall one user was able to jiggle his screen. These folks would be silly to keep the set. It might have long term problems or become a psychological burden.
Of course you did, since you can't take any criticism of this set, and are extremely defensive when any comes up. I get being happy with your purchase, but it's not faultless. No tv is.

What good is a one sided discussion? How does it help prospective buyers?
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post #2628 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Here's my calibrated settings, measurements, and observations for the Sony XBR 65" z9d.

I'll say right away this is the best TV I have owned. Whether its the overall picture uniformity, near black response, superb motion, or amazing black levels with no/minimal blooming the z9d brings it all to the table. Not once have I considered returning this TV, and I've finally and happily unsubscribed from threads for competing TV's and technologies.
Spoiler!

Better than most of the so called professional reviews that you find on large internet sites. Excellent job!
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post #2629 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post
Better than most of the so called professional reviews that you find on large internet sites. Excellent job!
Wow thank you, you are too kind. I'm just an enthusiast with modest equipment and infinite patience lol.

Overall I'm thrilled with this TV, it's just so well rounded and excellent in every category. It's so refreshing to not have to say "it's the best and I love it but just have to ignore x".
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post #2630 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 09:49 PM
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Like a few other south bay denizens, I spent about 20 minutes comparing the 940D and the 65Z9D at the blossom hill BB. Please take this for what it's worth, I.e. one person's opinion. In the interests of full disclosure, I'm also a 940D owner and am contemplating an upgrade to the 75Z. I got the magnolia rep to put both sets (940 and Z) in cinema pro mode and then I compared them side by side playing the usual Sony demo feeds. First of all, the specular highlights on the Z were clearly brighter than the 940. This was very obvious. The contrast was also "punchier" when comparing the two side by side. Whites on the Z were whiter than on the 940, some colors seemed richer and others were near identical. Text on dark backgrounds seemed sharper on the Z but I didn't trust my eyes there comparing the 65" to the 75". Imho smaller screens always look "sharper" when playing the same material.

I believe others have noted very similar differences. I wasn't one who felt that the Z was "orders of magnitude" better. Was it better than the 940? Yes, and it was visible. How much better? Very hard to say. At least for me, the upgrade wasn't a slam dunk given my current investment in the 940. If I didn't own the 940, I would likely go for the Z.

My two bits... Hopefully this helps others in my position (who feel a little bit cheated by Sony).
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post #2631 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
i actually measured cinema pro with the same settings as custom afterwards and it measured within normal variation (<1de) from custom mode.

I think cinema is basically just a different preset but you can make the modes act the same.
I was also curious as to why you opted for Custom. Cinema Pro is usually what gives a nice 2.4 gamma from what people say. Then again, not everyone wants a 2.4 gamma.
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post #2632 of 21677 Old 09-05-2016, 10:33 PM
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So as I sad I'm coming form a Sharp ELITE Pro and the motion is spot on, and I know other top end displays like the ''Z9'' can be just as good but I'm just really confused as to why these top of the line OLED's can't do as good for me on the 24pfs motion and I'm seeking answers.
There's nothing to really be confused about, it's just LG's motion interpolation has never been the best. It doesn't matter if it's their LCD's or OLED's. Some don't mind it but it leaves a lot to be desired for other. The ultra fast pixel response can also make low frame rate content look a little more juddery just like how Plasma was often a little more juddery than LCD because it also had a faster response time, though not as fast as OLED
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post #2633 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
While that is true, the reason most of us want this TV is to upgrade to hdr

If it won't support the most prominent format in 2 years that would suck

Still hdr10 is here to stay

UHD blu ray
Xbox one S
PS4 NEO
Nvidia
Amd
Intel (look at new kabby lake chips announced Thursday)

That is lot of hardware for 2.0a hdmi and hdr10

Only the streaming services are using DV


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Doesn't Netlix use HDR 10 instead of DV?

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post #2634 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by salavs View Post
Like a few other south bay denizens, I spent about 20 minutes comparing the 940D and the 65Z9D at the blossom hill BB. Please take this for what it's worth, I.e. one person's opinion. In the interests of full disclosure, I'm also a 940D owner and am contemplating an upgrade to the 75Z. I got the magnolia rep to put both sets (940 and Z) in cinema pro mode and then I compared them side by side playing the usual Sony demo feeds. First of all, the specular highlights on the Z were clearly brighter than the 940. This was very obvious. The contrast was also "punchier" when comparing the two side by side. Whites on the Z were whiter than on the 940, some colors seemed richer and others were near identical. Text on dark backgrounds seemed sharper on the Z but I didn't trust my eyes there comparing the 65" to the 75". Imho smaller screens always look "sharper" when playing the same material.

I believe others have noted very similar differences. I wasn't one who felt that the Z was "orders of magnitude" better. Was it better than the 940? Yes, and it was visible. How much better? Very hard to say. At least for me, the upgrade wasn't a slam dunk given my current investment in the 940. If I didn't own the 940, I would likely go for the Z.

My two bits... Hopefully this helps others in my position (who feel a little bit cheated by Sony).
Bold texts in quote is a huge factor while making comparisons on detail/sharpness
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post #2635 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Here's my calibrated settings, measurements, and observations for the Sony XBR 65" z9d.

*snip*
Thanks for this.

Can those settings be used for graphics from a laptop PC?
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post #2636 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by salavs View Post
Like a few other south bay denizens, I spent about 20 minutes comparing the 940D and the 65Z9D at the blossom hill BB. Please take this for what it's worth, I.e. one person's opinion. In the interests of full disclosure, I'm also a 940D owner and am contemplating an upgrade to the 75Z. I got the magnolia rep to put both sets (940 and Z) in cinema pro mode and then I compared them side by side playing the usual Sony demo feeds. First of all, the specular highlights on the Z were clearly brighter than the 940. This was very obvious. The contrast was also "punchier" when comparing the two side by side. Whites on the Z were whiter than on the 940, some colors seemed richer and others were near identical. Text on dark backgrounds seemed sharper on the Z but I didn't trust my eyes there comparing the 65" to the 75". Imho smaller screens always look "sharper" when playing the same material.

I believe others have noted very similar differences. I wasn't one who felt that the Z was "orders of magnitude" better. Was it better than the 940? Yes, and it was visible. How much better? Very hard to say. At least for me, the upgrade wasn't a slam dunk given my current investment in the 940. If I didn't own the 940, I would likely go for the Z.

My two bits... Hopefully this helps others in my position (who feel a little bit cheated by Sony).

This may be premature due to there being no announcement yet but it is one of those "It is what it is" Moments. I can understand why some of the 940D Owners have that "little bit cheated" feeling. Imagine the "Cheated Feeling" of Sony Owners if HDMI 2.1 requires a Hardware Upgrade for HDR Dynamic Metadata and other related improvements due to Sony can/will not provide upgrades via Firmware ! ... Also for Z Model Owners ... what type/length of warranty does Sony provide for this display in the U.S. Market ? I see that in the U.K. Sony provides a FIVE (5) Year Parts and Labor Warranty Registration Card inside the shipping package.
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post #2637 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 05:47 AM
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What I noticed with my g6 was that I would still get a handful of jutter and sometimes I felt like the processing was just having a hard time keeping up...that being said I couldn't necessarily verify if that was the tv at fault or my oppo bd player...but seeing as though oppo has been tried and true and oled is still in its infancy I'd say it was the tv...and for me at least the problem seemed more occurring if the screen was set at a higher light output. I do really feel like the Sony handles motion a lot better. There are aspects I miss from my g6, especially the wand remote and os platform, but this tv does well enough with black levels and color and fidelity that I'm not actually missing the absolute blacks as much as I thought I would be
agree with this 100%. i had an E6 and before that a sharp elite. although i eventually got used to OLED motion (with trumotion disabled), i always thought the E6 handled 24 fps content poorly. this was especially true in certain types of high contrast scenes, such as a bright window panning across the screen - horrible judder.

the z9 is much better imo. there's still judder when it's baked in the content but it's less painful to watch. and if desired, motionflow (unlike LG's trumotion) can be used to reduce judder without adding SOE or other artifacts.
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post #2638 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 05:57 AM
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The way the Sony handles 24p motion content has me greatly leaning towards the purchase of the Z9 over the E6 Oled. Considering Netflix and Amazon streaming services are 60p, will motion and the lack of judder, still be superior on the Sony?

Also, what kind of heat does the 65" Z9 put out? Is it fairly cool running like the Oleds?

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post #2639 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 06:09 AM
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If you want to check out your shadow detail, check out "Jungle Book 3D". I'm curious how it looks on OLED also. I'd ask Samsung 2016 owners but their sets don't do 3D.


3D on Sony's 940D is just O.K. That doesn't mean that 3D with the "Z" series wouldn't be good to excellent; however, no LCD T.V. I've seen so far does a particularly good job with 3D (or LCD projector for that matter). On the other hand reviewers and owners rave about 3D on an OLED. If you're into 3D it's pretty tempting to give OLED a shot.

I'd also be interested in knowing how the "Z" handles 3D -- especially hearing from someone who cares about 3D and has owned various 3D T.V.s and maybe seen 3D shown on a DLP projector or T.V. (no ghosting with DLP).

I've looked at the "black level" photos posted on this thread and they look very much like what the 940D does with "black". The remarkable thing is that the "Z" can do this with a much, much higher light output (probably 2 1/2 times that of the 940D), which is in IMO is a major feat. I'm just not convinced I need that kind of firepower in a light controlled room. The fact that it doesn't show "smearing" and has an image as good as and even better than the 940D (which has an amazing image) is for me its biggest appeal. It would seal the deal if it proved to be great with 3D as well..
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post #2640 of 21677 Old 09-06-2016, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This picture showing the color spectrum distribution of the Sony WCG LED backlight used on the XBR-ZD9 series looks very/very similar to the picture of the color spectrum of the Sony XBR-940C posted on its review done by HDFever, the French online A/V publication.

I am including the picture of the Sony LED backlight color spectrum for both sets as well as a comparison picture of the color spectrum of quantum dots used on the Hisense XT910 taken by the same publication.

Looking at these pictures i wish the company had continued using quantum dots for backlight as Sony did in the recent past instead of changing to a "better" solution like phosphor-coated WCG LEDs, even considering how well received and spectacular as the color spectrum of current Sony flagship sets may be.
The scales are not the same. If I understand everything correctly, the ZD9 has a very good color spectrum.

I have a question for the owners : does the game mode have a huge impact on image quality? Even if you don't game, you could check game mode on a movie if you have the time. I think the local dimming will be less effective.

Last edited by werewolfy; 09-06-2016 at 06:16 AM.
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