Vizio P-series(2016 model) for use as a PC monitor and for gaming - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Vizio P-series(2016 model) for use as a PC monitor and for gaming(PC & console)

This thread is for those who are using their Vizio P-series (2016 model only to eliminate confusion) as a PC monitor and for gaming. Please do not post any questions about any other topics, but see the Vizio P-series owner's thread instead (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...lk-please.html). Please bear with me as I'm relatively new to this site, and forums in general.

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post #2 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Sticky #1

- 4k @ 60hz on HDMI 5(where input lag is the lowest) is confirmed. There has been a bit of debate over this, as some claimed HDMI 5 was actually an HDMI 1.4 input. It isn't 2.0a like the others, but more like 2.0.

- 1080p @ 120hz is also confirmed to work on all HDMI inputs. However, only the 55" and above are 120hz, while the 50" is 60hz max.

- HDMI 5(with GLL enabled) in game mode currently has an input lag of 19.1ms, which is excellent for gaming. Initially it was 17ms, but has been increased with a recent firmware update.

- Response Time is 10.2ms on all inputs. Also excellent for gaming.

- HDMI 5 does NOT support HDR. This is because HDMI 5 forgoes processing to achieve the lower input lag. Keep in mind forthcoming games will utilize HDR technology. Of course you can still get HDR on inputs 1-4 with the drawback of an input lag increase.

- Using a DVI to HDMI converter for your video card is NOT recommended. Testing this with an NVIDIA Titan X(Pascal) showed all sorts of issues, such as not being able to maintain a stable 1080p @ 120hz resolution. Whether or not this is a problem specific to that card is unknown, but doubtful. Stick to the HDMI ports if you can.

More info regarding input lag:
HDMI--HDR----GLL--ALED---INPUT LAG
1-------HDR----On---On------65.2
1-------HDR----On---Off------62.1
1-------HDR----Off---On-----157.2
1-------HDR----Off---Off-----154.5
1-------SDR----On---On------38.0
1-------SDR----On---Off------37.2
1-------SDR----Off---On-----113.0
1-------SDR----Off---Off-----112.4
5-------SDR----On---On------19.7
5-------SDR----On---Off------19.1
5-------SDR----Off---On------94.6
5-------SDR----Off---Off------94.3

*Update* 9/18/16 More input lag info can be found in the attached image
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post #3 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Sticky #2

Originally Posted by Matt McRae:

The team is working feverishly on a new firmware update that should be available in the next 2 weeks after regressions testing. Here are the targeted improvements:

- Big improvements on HDR10 picture quality
- Fix for "green tint" issue on Playstation 4 when in Deep Color
- Added 50Hz support for Xbox (just makes set up go smoother)
- Fixed more instances of split screen
- Fixed instances of stuttering or frame drops
- Sharpness setting fixed (doesn't revert)
- Clean Action scanning improvements for 60Hz
- 40IRE adjustment fixed in Calibrated Dark
- Lots of fixes in for ARC and dropped audio
- Wake on CAST improvements
- Fixes for freezing seen in Hulu app
- Improvements in OOBE and pairing during setup
- General stability and PQ improvements across the system

We are also testing this weekend an improvement to Bluetooth pairing for iPhone 7 models.

A couple of issues are still being worked on and will be in a later release (roughly 45-60 days).

The first is a patch for 4:4:4. I know this has been discussed a lot. The TV supports 4:4:4 now but certain signals show decimation. In these cases the TV is accepting and decoding the 4:4:4 signal correctly but it is passing through a portion of the video pipeline which is reducing the chroma. A fix is in the works so that when a 4:4:4 signal is detected this portion of the pipeline is bypassed and the true 4:4:4 will make it to screen. This is a longer fix because it required a rework of the video pipeline.

The second is 4:2:0 HDR10 which is manifesting itself on the Xbox. We were surprised that the Xbox would use the lower quality chroma output and at 60fps (as you know other sources chose better output formats). For instance, when you stream Netflix app the Xbox is actually converting 24p to 60p and outpouring it in 4:2:0. A rework to our HDR10 video pipeline is under way to handle this one format much better. The code is already working - saw it last week and it looks great. The code is being integrated into our main branch and will then go through regression testing before release. As part of this work we are separating the HDR10 PQ settings from DolbyVision - so when this code is released you will have 3 sub parts of each major PQ mode (SDR, HDR10, and DV) which was another request from several posters here on AVS.

As part of this release that includes the 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 HDR10 changes... we are working on further improvements to DolbyVision, set up experience, on screen menus, couple of remaining ACR updates and other general improvements.

I'll let you know how testing goes this week and when the release is live. Thanks for your patience.

Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McRae View Post
Lots of questions on lag time... thought I would post some comments.

On our P and M Series products. The main SOC has about a 2 frame delay for processing which on a 60fps input is about 30ms. Our PQ/MEMC engine is a little less than one frame which is about 15ms. Our current HDR code is adding about 15ms. So at a very high level:

- HDMI 1-4 in SDR = 45ms
- HDMI 5 in SDR = 15ms
- HDMI 1-4 in HDR = 60ms

In my previous post I mentioned that we are reworking our HDR10 pipeline to support 4:2:0 better for Xbox. As part of that rework we are attempting to pull down the HDR10 lag to near 0ms. That means we would end up with the following:

- HDMI 1-4 in SDR = 45ms
- HDMI 5 in SDR = 15ms
- HDMI 1-4 in HDR10 = 45ms
- HDMI 1-4 in DolbyVision = 60ms

A couple of notes:

First, frame rate has a lot to do with lag. The above are calculated using 60fps. But 30fps would be slower and 120fps would be faster.

Second, backlight at 100% will produce the fastest times. Reducing the backlight will increase perceived lag because we take advantage of the lower brightness to reduce image blur by flashing the backlight after the liquid crystal in the physical glass has settled. Basically as you decrease the backlight you can slightly improve motion blur but will slightly increase lag (by as much as 10ms).

Third, we really care about gaming scenarios... hopefully as you can tell from our super fast HDMI 5 port, our support of 120fps, etc. We will continue to look to optimize lag, increase support for fast gaming cards, and other features our future displays great for gaming.

Matt
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post #4 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Sticky #3

sticky 3
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post #5 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 01:23 PM
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Confused by the wording a little. PC and gaming as in just PC gaming or console gaming too?
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post #6 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordj View Post
Confused by the wording a little. PC and gaming as in just PC gaming or console gaming too?
I read "gaming" as all-inclusive - console owners welcome.

Great thread, btw!!!
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post #7 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 02:21 PM
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I posted in the PC gaming forum about getting the 50" Vizio P50-c1 (replaced an old 46" Samsung 1080p LCD) as a PC monitor and for game consoles. Here's some updated thoughts:

I use this display mostly as a PC monitor, but also have a PS4 hooked up. Haven't hooked up the Xbox One yet, but that will happen soon.

Lots of various things to talk about, but short story - I find using it simply as a 1080p monitor up-rez to 4K suits my needs as a PC gaming monitor nicely. The Windows desktop is sized nicely for 1080p on a 50" monitor, and games' framerates at 1080P is much better than the 4k resolution.

The Vizio speakers aren't great, so hooked up an old Sony soundbar, which sounds much better. But the soundbar's pass-through is only HDMI 1.4, so no 4K while using it. The monitor's low lag 2.0 HDMI port #5 works with the soundbar's older HDMI 1.4 standard.

Pluses:
  • The 1080p upscale to the monitor's 4k rez in games is pretty breathtaking
  • Nice color
  • Sharp details
  • Excellent black level (FALD FTW!)
  • very bright back-lighting
  • Amazingly low input lag
  • Price (sub-$1000)

Minuses:
  • Speakers serviceable at best
  • Setup and calibration* through the included Android tablet is interesting tech, but fairly clumsy and/or frustrating to use at times**
  • Same as above with Casting, if using as a TV/movie monitor
  • Application text (e.g. web browsing) using YCbCr444 tricky to get looking right
  • The 50" is only a 60hz panel, the bigger P-series models are 120hz and allow for 1080p/120 input from PC or other sources
  • Possibly related to the above, Clear Action on (strobing backlights) causes a lot of flicker with solid white, maybe because mine is the 60Hz model? Not sure if this is noticeable on the bigger 120Hz P-series panels

*I found the OOTB modes "Calibrated" and "Computer" to be pretty spot-on for my needs at a PC monitor, just had to turn the backlight down a bit to avoid blinding whites, and pinch the Blue offset up a bit in Calibrated and down a bit in Computer to correct for for a slightly too warm or cool appearance.

**Putting the Vizio SmartCast iOS app on the iPhone and an old iPad that was previously unused is much easier to control than the POS Android tablet included with the display. But, the "tablet remote" makes a nice clock sitting next to the TV!

Overall, aside from having to learn it's quirks, I'm thrilled with gaming on this display!!!!
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Last edited by DaverJ; 08-16-2016 at 02:40 PM.
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post #8 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
I read "gaming" as all-inclusive - console owners welcome.

Great thread, btw!!!
Console gaming as well. I'll fix the titles. Thanks.
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post #9 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordj View Post
Confused by the wording a little. PC and gaming as in just PC gaming or console gaming too?
Don't think I can change the thread title though :/
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post #10 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by terablaze View Post
Don't think I can change the thread title though :/
Nah you're good. It's most likely just my reading comprehension failing. Im getting old.

Vizio P65-C1
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post #11 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 04:59 PM
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The Title is Fine

@terablaze

There will always be a mix of posters. It's the contributions that you can collect as links in your reserved posts that will be one of the treasures. Focused help will be another. Then there is the unexpected.

Enjoy.
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My Components:
Denon X3400H, OPPO UDP-203 & BDP-93, Xfinity XG1-P, Vizio PQ, Roku 3 & Ultra 2018
Calibration Resources:
Customer's Reports -- Professional Calibrations
Calibrator's locations and tour areas.
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post #12 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
I posted in the PC gaming forum about getting the 50" Vizio P50-c1 (replaced an old 46" Samsung 1080p LCD) as a PC monitor and for game consoles. Here's some updated thoughts:

I use this display mostly as a PC monitor, but also have a PS4 hooked up. Haven't hooked up the Xbox One yet, but that will happen soon.

Lots of various things to talk about, but short story - I find using it simply as a 1080p monitor up-rez to 4K suits my needs as a PC gaming monitor nicely. The Windows desktop is sized nicely for 1080p on a 50" monitor, and games' framerates at 1080P is much better than the 4k resolution.

The Vizio speakers aren't great, so hooked up an old Sony soundbar, which sounds much better. But the soundbar's pass-through is only HDMI 1.4, so no 4K while using it. The monitor's low lag 2.0 HDMI port #5 works with the soundbar's older HDMI 1.4 standard.

Pluses:
  • The 1080p upscale to the monitor's 4k rez in games is pretty breathtaking
  • Nice color
  • Sharp details
  • Excellent black level (FALD FTW!)
  • very bright back-lighting
  • Amazingly low input lag
  • Price (sub-$1000)

Minuses:
  • Speakers serviceable at best
  • Setup and calibration* through the included Android tablet is interesting tech, but fairly clumsy and/or frustrating to use at times**
  • Same as above with Casting, if using as a TV/movie monitor
  • Application text (e.g. web browsing) using YCbCr444 tricky to get looking right
  • The 50" is only a 60hz panel, the bigger P-series models are 120hz and allow for 1080p/120 input from PC or other sources
  • Possibly related to the above, Clear Action on (strobing backlights) causes a lot of flicker with solid white, maybe because mine is the 60Hz model? Not sure if this is noticeable on the bigger 120Hz P-series panels

*I found the OOTB modes "Calibrated" and "Computer" to be pretty spot-on for my needs at a PC monitor, just had to turn the backlight down a bit to avoid blinding whites, and pinch the Blue offset up a bit in Calibrated and down a bit in Computer to correct for for a slightly too warm or cool appearance.

**Putting the Vizio SmartCast iOS app on the iPhone and an old iPad that was previously unused is much easier to control than the POS Android tablet included with the display. But, the "tablet remote" makes a nice clock sitting next to the TV!

Overall, aside from having to learn it's quirks, I'm thrilled with gaming on this display!!!!
Clear action is pretty noticable to me on my 55", I wouldn't recommend it unless you're a decent distance from the tv.

So how did your 4:4:4 test go? Any problems?
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post #13 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hard_Celery View Post
Clear action is pretty noticable to me on my 55", I wouldn't recommend it unless you're a decent distance from the tv.

So how did your 4:4:4 test go? Any problems?
You mean at 4K? 4:4:4 seemed to work for me 8 bpc at 4K, and once switched to "Computer" picture settings, text looks pretty good. But I didn't stick with the 4K desktop resolution for long. 1080p up-scaled works better for my setup.

I've found that there's something about the Computer settings that helps avoid the ringing around text - not sure what, but it seems to help.

Anyone have any findings about GPU vs. Display for scaling?
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post #14 of 436 Old 08-16-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
You mean at 4K? 4:4:4 seemed to work for me 8 bpc at 4K, and once switched to "Computer" picture settings, text looks pretty good. But I didn't stick with the 4K desktop resolution for long. 1080p up-scaled works better for my setup.

I've found that there's something about the Computer settings that helps avoid the ringing around text - not sure what, but it seems to help.

Anyone have any findings about GPU vs. Display for scaling?
No dropped video or audio loss? Guess I'm gonna have to try a fresh windows install before calling Vizio :/

Not sure what you mean by ringing, if you have the sharpness turnt up, it will make everything look like ish at 4k.

Seems like having the GPU upscale would decrease input lag slightly in gaming and would imagine should do a better job consider the processing power. For video files I'd recommend using MadVR to upscale. Using the GPU has caused improper scaling before with a quarter of the picture filling my screen, only happened once in no mans sky so far.

Why aren't you using 1440p instead of 1080?
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post #15 of 436 Old 08-17-2016, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I'm getting ready to add a few things to the first sticky at the top of the first page. One thing I think that is very important for PC users and gamers to know is that 4k @ 60hz on HDMI 5(where input lag is the lowest) is confirmed. This would affect console gamers down the road as well, since the new console versions(ex: PS4 Neo this fall) will be 4k, and probably 60fps for some games. There has been some debate about whether or not HDMI 5 can support this. Two or three users told me in the official vizio thread that HDMI 5 could not do 4k @ 60hz because it was HDMI 1.4. This does not seem to be the case.

Also, Daniel (I think that was his name) from Rtings.com came to the official vizio forum about a month ago to answer some questions about chroma @ 4:4:4(forgive me if I got that wrong). This seemed to be a big concern for PC users, as some tests showed that it could not do chroma @ 4:4:4 but something more like 4:4:2? At any rate, Daniel did some further testing and got back to the forum with a response. Does anyone recall this? I forget what exactly the upshot was.
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post #16 of 436 Old 08-17-2016, 03:43 PM
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Two or three users told me in the official vizio thread that HDMI 5 could not do 4k @ 60hz because it was HDMI 1.4. This does not seem to be the case.
Yeah - I was wrong about that - sorry. Port 5 is HDMI 2.0, but it's compatible with HDMI 1.4 devices like soundbars or AVR pass-thru. If a 1.4 device is plugged in to port 5, I believe the max resolution is 1080/60. Not sure about 1080/120.

I'll test to see if ports 1 through 4 are compatible with my HDMI 1.4 soundbar.

EDIT: looks like port 4 is fine with the PC hooked through a HDMI 1.4 soundbar, and also maxes out at 1080/60 with 32-bit 12 bpc color depth and YCbCr444 on the P50's 60Hz panel.
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post #17 of 436 Old 08-17-2016, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I just began testing my Titan X(Pascal) today with the P-series on HDMI 5. Now, 4K @ 60hz in windows 10 appeared to work just fine initially, but then I tested Doom at 3840x2160. Game was running great. I closed it out for a bit, and then restarted to play some more. I started noticing some flickering, and other graphical issues harder to describe. I exited back to windows, and noticed there was STILL flickering while just looking at my desktop. I moved the HDMI cable to HDMI 2 and of course... it worked fine. I then decided to go back to HDMI 5 and play around a bit. After powering the TV on and off, switching resolutions and inputs back and forth, the issue seemed to be resolved(not really sure which solved the problem), and the game was working perfectly again.

Next test was 1080p @ 120hz on HDMI 5... flicker city, right off the bat. I moved the HDMI cable over to HDMI 2 and sure enough, it was working just fine. I moved the cable back to HDMI 5 like I did previously with 4k @ 60hz and played around to no avail.

Now, if getting 4k @ 60hz on HDMI 5 is just a matter of playing around a bit, so be it. It's a small price to pay for a great TV. The 1080 @ 120hz is what concerns me. The reason I'd like to get this all working on HDMI 5 is because it has half the input lag of the other ports.

Any information provided is appreciated, and will go up on a sticky.

I have not contacted Vizio yet, because I'm not sure how helpful they will be in this regard. In dealing with their support in the past I found that the chances of getting a hold of a tech knowledgeable about PC related issues is unlikely. I will give it another try however if necessary.
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post #18 of 436 Old 08-17-2016, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by terablaze View Post
I just began testing my Titan X(Pascal) today with the P-series on HDMI 5. Now, 4K @ 60hz in windows 10 appeared to work just fine initially, but then I tested Doom at 3840x2160. Game was running great. I closed it out for a bit, and then restarted to play some more. I started noticing some flickering, and other graphical issues harder to describe. I exited back to windows, and noticed there was STILL flickering while just looking at my desktop. I moved the HDMI cable to HDMI 2 and of course... it worked fine. I then decided to go back to HDMI 5 and play around a bit. After powering the TV on and off, switching resolutions and inputs back and forth, the issue seemed to be resolved(not really sure which solved the problem), and the game was working perfectly again.

Next test was 1080p @ 120hz on HDMI 5... flicker city, right off the bat. I moved the HDMI cable over to HDMI 2 and sure enough, it was working just fine. I moved the cable back to HDMI 5 like I did previously with 4k @ 60hz and played around to no avail.

Now, if getting 4k @ 60hz on HDMI 5 is just a matter of playing around a bit, so be it. It's a small price to pay for a great TV. The 1080 @ 120hz is what concerns me. The reason I'd like to get this all working on HDMI 5 is because it has half the input lag of the other ports.

Any information provided is appreciated, and will go up on a sticky.

I have not contacted Vizio yet, because I'm not sure how helpful they will be in this regard. In dealing with their support in the past I found that the chances of getting a hold of a tech knowledgeable about PC related issues is unlikely. I will give it another try however if necessary.
Disregard this. Like a putz I had my HDMI cable going to the DVI port using an adapter. I was so used to using the DVI on my old video card that I didn't even realize it. Strange that this caused the issue, but good to know!
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post #19 of 436 Old 08-17-2016, 08:38 PM
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At any rate, Daniel did some further testing and got back to the forum with a response. Does anyone recall this? I forget what exactly the upshot was.
Yes, he said it doesn't do 4:4:4. They updated the review after doing this testing and after a recent firmware update.

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/p-series-2016

Also there are some updated lag readings in there for HDR on HDMI 1 vs. SDR on HDMI 5 (It's higher to use HDR on HDMI 1, obviously).
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post #20 of 436 Old 08-17-2016, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, he said it doesn't do 4:4:4. They updated the review after doing this testing and after a recent firmware update.

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/p-series-2016

Also there are some updated lag readings in there for HDR on HDMI 1 vs. SDR on HDMI 5 (It's higher to use HDR on HDMI 1, obviously).
Yeah! I just noticed those new lag results! I thought HMDI 5 could get you as low as 17, now all of the sudden it's 19. I assumed that was because of a firmware update. I should probably add all that information to one of the stickys.
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post #21 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I've begun adding some important info to the first sticky. Let's try to get some more basic info if possible! Thanks.
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post #22 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 09:07 AM
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Heh, 65ms for HDR. Saw that coming. Getting an active reload in Gears4 is going to be nearly impossible. Should look pretty though.
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post #23 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by terablaze View Post
- 4k @ 60hz on HDMI 5(where input lag is the lowest) is confirmed. There has been a bit of debate over this, as some claimed HDMI 5 was actually an HDMI 1.4 input. It isn't 2.2 like the others, but more like 2.0.
Bolded is confusing - not sure if you are talking about HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2.

Also, might want to mention ports 1 thru 4 are now HDMI 2.0a. I believe port 5 is limited to HDMI 2.0.

Also, when talking about lag, maybe mention Game Low Latency (GLL) needs to be ON.
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post #24 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
Bolded is confusing - not sure if you are talking about HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2.

Also, might want to mention ports 1 thru 4 are now HDMI 2.0a. I believe port 5 is limited to HDMI 2.0.

Also, when talking about lag, maybe mention Game Low Latency (GLL) needs to be ON.
Ok thanks. I fixed it. But it's in bold? That's strange, it doesn't show up that way for me. I went to edit and still didn't see anything.
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post #25 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by terablaze View Post
Ok thanks. I fixed it. But it's in bold? That's strange, it doesn't show up that way for me. I went to edit and still didn't see anything.
Sorry - I bolded the quote to refer to that section.
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post #26 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Also, might want to mention ports 1 thru 4 are now HDMI 2.0a. I believe port 5 is limited to HDMI 2.0.
Isn't HDMI5 1.4?

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post #27 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Isn't HDMI5 1.4?
no... HDMI port 5 has been confirmed to do 4K @ 60hz.
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Last edited by DaverJ; 08-19-2016 at 12:52 PM.
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post #28 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Isn't HDMI5 1.4?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
no... HDMI port 5 has been confirmed to do 4K @ 60hz.
I can absolutely confirm 4k @ 60hz on HDMI 5 . I've been playing games at that resolution with 60fps for days, and have checked those stats with the vizio app.
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post #29 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 01:37 PM
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Yes, can also confirm... the confusion was 4k 60fps with 444. Nonetheless, I still use this port for all pc gaming. Thier is a slight decrease in visual quality at 4k but to me a noticeable difference in input lag vs ports 1 to 4. I have been using 1080p 120 fps for all fps games and the upscaling and motion is similar to my old gaming monitor except I'm relaxing on a couch....this is definitely the best large screen monitor for gaming. BTW, I wouldn't worry about lag in hdr console games until verifiable numbers come out.
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post #30 of 436 Old 08-19-2016, 04:32 PM
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HDMI VersionPorts 1-4 support v2.0 (upgrade 2.0a coming soon); Port 5 supports v1.4
HDCP VersionPorts 1- 4 supports: v2.2; Port 5 supports: v2.0


I was referring to the HDMI version, not HDCP. Sorry for the confusion.

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