DO TV'S 2017 GOING TO BE WITH HDMI 2.1 supports 8K, 10K, dynamic HDR new cable - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 69 Old 01-08-2017, 08:38 AM
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Great ideas and concepts, so in the future we have a lot to look forward to. But I buy for the now so I can enjoy it. I know all too well buying something early on to the market sets you up with some potential issues later on so if you go right out to buy a tv with HDMI 2.1 as soon as they launch, be prepared to no get everything promised as things will change. For example, wasn't HDMI at one point sold with the ability to use Ethernet technology for networks but who actually used or uses that? Things will change...trust everybody in here who has said that.
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post #32 of 69 Old 01-08-2017, 09:12 AM
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<sigh> it's starting to feel like their's a troll among us. It might be best to close this thread before someone gets their feelings hurt.
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post #33 of 69 Old 01-10-2017, 11:15 AM
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DO TV'S 2017 GOING TO BE WITH HDMI 2.1 supports 8K, 10K, dynamic HDR new cable

Wow all this new stuff coming out. I'm excited but at the same time I've decided that I've got to the end of the line with upgrades. I've always been a chaser, always upgrading almost yearly or every two years. I can't count how many tv's & AVR's I've had over the last 10 years alone, most of my family & friends think I'm crazy for all the upgrades I've done. Now I've said this before but I'm firmly happy with my setup. I just got a 4K set last summer Panasonic DX900 & UB900 player. I've got it calibrated and the picture is just like looking through a widow. And the UB900 is simply the best player I've owned absolutely stunning. Now with DV coming and 2.1 coming also new cables again. It seems to be getting worse as time goes on. I will however be upgrading my avr again from Onkyo 1030 to Yamaha 3060 or Onkyo RZ3100 and I will be purchasing Sony's new 4K Player as I run two players in my setup, but beyond that no more upgrades until something dies.
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post #34 of 69 Old 01-10-2017, 04:18 PM
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^^^^ keep in mind that the "new cable" that is supposed to handle HDMI 2.1 appears to have a distance limitation of about 6'. And of course no one has seen it or even know what it costs.
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post #35 of 69 Old 01-11-2017, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozin View Post
Wow all this new stuff coming out. I'm excited but at the same time I've decided that I've got to the end of the line with upgrades. I've always been a chaser, always upgrading almost yearly or every two years. I can't count how many tv's & ARV's I've had over the last 10 years alone, most of my family & friends think I'm crazy for all the upgrades I've done. Now I've said this before but I'm firmly happy with my setup. I just got a 4K set last summer Panasonic DX900 & UB900 player. I've got it calibrated and the picture is just like looking through a widow. And the UB900 is simply the best player I've owned absolutely stunning. Now with DV coming and 2.1 coming also new cables again. It seems to be getting worse as time goes on. I will however be upgrading my avr again from Onkyo 1030 to Yamaha 3060 or Onkyo RZ3100 and I will be purchasing Sony's new 4K Player as I run two players in my setup, but beyond that no more upgrades until something dies.
I just took delivery of a UN65KS9000 and matching UBD-8500. These replace a five year old Samsung 65" 1080p TV and LG DVD player. I did it because my wife could actually see the difference between HD and 4K. It is an impressive setup. Once I get it tweaked, it will be stunning. For me, it won't matter what they come up with between now and my next upgrade. I was streaming S1/E2 of Blue Bloods on Netflix, and had uhd+ on and it looked like General Hospital. I put it back in Movie mode and everything was fine, although I do admit watching it with the "soap opera" effect for about 15 minutes to see what it was like. "Unnatural" comes to mind as an apt description. Loving it so far! Today, programming of my new Harmony Elite is the project at hand (to replace a URC MX-850).

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post #36 of 69 Old 01-11-2017, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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post #37 of 69 Old 01-11-2017, 02:23 PM
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I don't know about corrupt but a different connection standard other than HDMI is definitely needed.
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post #38 of 69 Old 01-11-2017, 06:10 PM
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Good to have some humor on here once in a while. Thank you.
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post #39 of 69 Old 01-12-2017, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I don't know about corrupt but a different connection standard other than HDMI is definitely needed.
this is the Problem, who holds HDMI ? Hitachi, Panasonic, Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson (RCA) and Toshiba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI_Licensing

they deliberately give poor standard to sell new products every year
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post #40 of 69 Old 02-08-2017, 01:31 AM
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I needed a tv and receiver last year so I purposely bought an obsolete demo model lg 60 inch lcd for cheap and a cheap demo model yamaha 7.2 just so I could wait for new technology to get better/cheaper. I'm glad I did. I definitely will be waiting for hdmi 2.1.

None of the new flaship receivers that just arived from Anthem or Pioneer or Onkyo have it so hopefully the new flagships from Marantz or Denon will.
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post #41 of 69 Old 03-08-2017, 05:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
^^^^ keep in mind that the "new cable" that is supposed to handle HDMI 2.1 appears to have a distance limitation of about 6'. And of course no one has seen it or even know what it costs.
Well, that's ****. Can we really expect that limitation to stay for any amount of time?
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post #42 of 69 Old 03-08-2017, 05:52 PM
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sorry . all i want is dynamic HDR which samsung is going to do on 2016s thru firmware. 8k tv isn't going to be anything for 10 years or longer, 10 bit color is amazing. sorry but you gave a lot of misinformation.
Sorry to bust your bubble but I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen.

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<sigh> it's starting to feel like their's a troll among us. It might be best to close this thread before someone gets their feelings hurt.
Otto, he's been trolling all over these forums in the past couple of months, it's best just to ignore.
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post #43 of 69 Old 03-08-2017, 07:56 PM
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Well, that's ****. Can we really expect that limitation to stay for any amount of time?
Considering the issues we're seeing now with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over about 20' I'd say yes, it is going to be an issue for quite some time. However, by the time HDMI 2.1 and the associated hardware and source material becomes widely available, maybe 15' 48Gbps cables will available at prices that people can afford.
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post #44 of 69 Old 03-08-2017, 07:57 PM
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Sorry to bust your bubble but I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen.



Otto, he's been trolling all over these forums in the past couple of months, it's best just to ignore.
I agree. Thanks.
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post #45 of 69 Old 03-08-2017, 08:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Considering the issues we're seeing now with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over about 20' I'd say yes, it is going to be an issue for quite some time. However, by the time HDMI 2.1 and the associated hardware and source material becomes widely available, maybe 15' 48Gbps cables will available at prices that people can afford.
So what about displayport? Same limitations to be expected in the next version of that? Is it likely to happen at the same time?
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post #46 of 69 Old 03-08-2017, 09:39 PM
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So what about displayport? Same limitations to be expected in the next version of that? Is it likely to happen at the same time?
Don't know about DP. Connectivity technology in general just sucks at this point in time. As I've been saying all along, video technology is far outpacing the connection technology so there's just no guarantees, or accurate predictions, that when you buy that fancy new HDMI 2.1 television that you're going to be able to connect it at lengths longer than about 20'-25' without having to spend a lot of money. The only thing you can really do for those long runs is install conduit so you can quickly and easily swap out your cables, be they DP, solid core CAT-6a, an HDMI cable, or an optical cable.
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post #47 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Considering the issues we're seeing now with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over about 20' I'd say yes, it is going to be an issue for quite some time. However, by the time HDMI 2.1 and the associated hardware and source material becomes widely available, maybe 15' 48Gbps cables will available at prices that people can afford.
Aren't there (reasonably) affordable fiber HDMI cables that can go hundreds of feet?

I'm building a home theater room in my new house and I'm debating whether to wait until 2018 to get, say, an LG 65C8 with HDMI 2.1 that does [email protected], because I'd love to also use it for PC gaming.
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post #48 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 03:53 PM
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Xbox 'Scorpio' will feature HDMI 2.1

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1491972609

which TV will benefit from this Scorpio first?
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post #49 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 04:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 3dprojector View Post
Xbox 'Scorpio' will feature HDMI 2.1

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1491972609

which TV will benefit from this Scorpio first?
Not sure how big of a difference it's going to make, but it certainly make waiting for 2018 OLEDs seem worth it. I'm glad I went with the 2016, I can wait until the price on a 2018 or 2019 drops to a low price, and I'll have been perfectly content with this one.

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post #50 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hamo View Post
Aren't there (reasonably) affordable fiber HDMI cables that can go hundreds of feet?

I'm building a home theater room in my new house and I'm debating whether to wait until 2018 to get, say, an LG 65C8 with HDMI 2.1 that does [email protected], because I'd love to also use it for PC gaming.
This issue has been discussed ad naseum in other posts but the bottom line is that it is all trial and error, regardless of what the cable mfr/reseller claims. 1080p is not the problem for just about any cable. That's the point of an active cable. You can push the current 25' maximum certifiable distance for 1080p considerably longer. The problem is the current higher video standards like 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over long distances. A lot of claims are made in regards to 18Gbps but without standardized certification protocols that ALL cable mfrs follow, they are basically meaningless and just for marketing purposes. The fiber cables seem to offer the most consistent reliability but even they are not 100% guaranteed. Considering the multitude of problems a lot of folks have been having with the current higher video standards, what HDMI 2.1 is going to offer is going to be very difficult, at this point in time, to achieve over long distances. There is a reason why the current HDMI 2.1 standards mention the use of a special type of 18Gbps cable and a 6'-10' max distance. Personally I find it hard to believe that the device mfrs are going to be pushing, hard, the HDMI 2.1 protocol with such a serious distance limitation. Hopefully something is in the works that will be able to provide full HDMI 2.1 compliance over distances longer than 10'. Your connected devices will certainly play a huge part in that they will all need to be using the same HDMI 2.1 chipsets and of course how you have your cable run (bend radius) is critical. The ONLY way you can future proof is to install conduit for your cable run. Video technology is far outpacing connection technology so as the connection technology improves, you will be swapping out cables, and with the use of a carefully planned conduit, that shouldn't be too difficult. It might not be a bad idea to have some sort of power outlet close to the ingress and egress of your cable run in case you need to provide some sort of active termination down the road. What is the length of your run?
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post #51 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 04:55 PM
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I don't see 2.1 really benefiting much until 2019 and beyond, yes 2018 TV will have 2.1, but the only thing that will bring is Dynamic HDR 10 via Blu-Ray, but since Dolby Vision is already in the mix, but getting off the ground slowly, it's only a big deal for TV's that have no DV support.

Even when Dynamic HDR 10 comes around, probably most movies will still just use standard HDR 10.

Even though 2.1 can support beyond 4k, 4K is still getting off the ground, and cable is still not 4K, not to mention I don't see many panels supporting 8K/10K resolutions even if they have HDMI 2.1

You may get some cool features via Xbox Scorpio, but most likely will be buggy and not adopted.

When HDR came out, none of the TV's could really support it, was buggy, etc. Not every TV in 2018 will do over 1000 nits even.

Bottom line, a 2018 TV with HDMI 2.1 will probably not be as future proofed as you think it will be. Not to mention you need, all new devices with HDMI 2.1 and cables.
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Spoiler!

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post #52 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 05:01 PM
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What is the length of your run?
Thanks for your response. Off the top of my head, I'd estimate there will be somewhere between 20'-30' between my AVR and TV. Conduit in the walls is definitely a good idea from an upgradability standpoint.

Yes, I can certainly see how the holes in the standards get turned into marketing nonsense and potential compatibility problems. It's really disappointing to have to deal with things like that when you are spending thousands of dollars and things should "just work." That's the curse of being an early-adopter I suppose. :P
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post #53 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hamo View Post
Thanks for your response. Off the top of my head, I'd estimate there will be somewhere between 20'-30' between my AVR and TV. Conduit in the walls is definitely a good idea from an upgradability standpoint.

Yes, I can certainly see how the holes in the standards get turned into marketing nonsense and potential compatibility problems. It's really disappointing to have to deal with things like that when you are spending thousands of dollars and things should "just work." That's the curse of being an early-adopter I suppose. :P
30' is better than the 60+' that some are dealing with. There's nothing wrong with being an early adopter. I find fault with HDMI.org and the tv mfrs who come up with new video standards, and then push them on the public without mentioning potential connection issues. Just wait till this holiday season when HDMI 2.1 or HMDI 2.1 "compatible" devices start to get pushed on the un-suspecting public.

I wouldn't think twice about not installing 1.5" - 2.0" conduit in-wall and then carefully consider bend radius etc. I've never been keen on installing HDMI cable in-wall to begin with. Solid core CAT-6a (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) is another option but you would have to actively terminate the cable and then you come back to the compatibility of the HDMI chipsets used in the HDBT termination being compatible for HDMI 2.1.
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post #54 of 69 Old 04-13-2017, 11:22 PM
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post #55 of 69 Old 04-14-2017, 05:59 AM
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what I think will be interesting is to see who attempts to make use of these new features first...

I went shopping for a TV a few months ago, my budget went from $1700 to $7499 when I discovered I was able to buy something I could actually game on, I know plenty of gamers dropping 5K+ on PC's some $1.5K on cards every few years, the VRR and increase frequency capabilities will be very interesting if it gets offered with low latency, there has been a few posts (could be wrong) saying that OLED is capable of some amazing stuff, maybe this could be their opportunity to shine?
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post #56 of 69 Old 04-14-2017, 06:48 AM
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I'm glad I waited to update my gaming tv. It seems imperative now with Scorpio to get 2.1/Freesync 2 capable tv. I would think Samsung and LG would be likely 1st adopters to the tech in the 55"-65" category. Unfortunately I can see Sony being slow to adopt Freesync 2.
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post #57 of 69 Old 04-16-2017, 09:08 AM
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^^^^^^ those are the HDMI 2.1 proposed specs. Nobody is arguing that they aren't great and will be a definite improvement. But until they make it into consumer devices this year, affordable consumer devices, sources become available that can push those specs, and there is a reliable connection technology, they are just wishful thinking at this point in time. Maybe next year.
i'm no gamer, mostly stream my music/movies....so i wonder how beneficial will be 2.1 my my situation.

good article below on it's potential as i'm still trying to catch up and understand its implications while also considering a 2016 LG B6 Oled purchase..but it seems, like most newer technologies, that not everyone will be supporting it right away despite its theoretical advantages. so i guess my 2016 tv should be ok for a good number of yrs still. (3-5 ish hopefully)

HDMI 2.1: What you need to know
''A new version of HDMI is coming soon, and there are some big changes -- including support for resolutions up to 10K as well as a new cable. Here's the skinny on fatter AV bandwidth.''
https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-2-1-w...-need-to-know/

excerpt:

A TV bought in 2018 could very well have HDMI 2.1, but even it won't take full advantage of the connection's potential. And a TV bought today will be able to display video to its own full potential using HDMI 2.0. In other words, lack of HDMI 2.1 is no reason to put off buying a new TV.

Though most current HDMI cables can handle nearly all of today's content, the TV industry never sits still. So down the road we're likely going to see higher frame rate TVs, and eventually, higher resolutions (8K, and so on).

This is what HDMI 2.1 is for. Not for 99 percent of people now, but for the future versions of ourselves who want to send their 4K TVs 120fps material, or their 8K TVs 60fps material. Far future versions of ourselves.

Unless you're a gamer, these high frame rates are superfluous. There's no source other than a PC that can output more than 60fps, and there's basically no content (yes, a few HFR movies, but they're very rare).

The higher resolutions are pretty optimistic too, since no company has announced an 8K TV for sale. Even if they did, it'd be years before we'd see widely available content. There's barely enough 4K content for most people right now, so 8K is still a long way off.''

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post #58 of 69 Old 04-16-2017, 09:23 AM
 
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I see a lot of people in other threads making the straw arguments that HDMI 2.1 is unnecessary, not future proof or they are waiting for HDMI 3.0. The fact is you are going from 18Gbps to 48Gbps. If you can wait until late this year or early next year you would be foolish not to. You will have 8K displays soon in the larger sizes that upscale, but doubt their will be native 8K in the consumer market anytime soon. So HDMI 2.1 should be able to handle everything for at least the next 10 years.
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post #59 of 69 Old 04-16-2017, 09:36 AM
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I see a lot of people in other threads making the straw arguments that HDMI 2.1 is unnecessary, not future proof or they are waiting for HDMI 3.0. The fact is you are going from 18Gbps to 48Gbps. If you can wait until late this year or early next year you would be foolish not to. You will have 8K displays soon in the larger sizes that upscale, but doubt their will be native 8K in the consumer market anytime soon. So HDMI 2.1 should be able to handle everything for at least the next 10 years.
your arguments are equally straw based..your crystal ball is just like ours...no one truly knows.
i'm just trying to figure it out, like everyone else, hedging one's bets without paying thru the nose for something that may or may not happen anytime soon.... i kept my tv for 10 yrs...rear projection hitachi 50''...but i'm a rarity, i'm sure. next time it'll be each 5 yrs for an upgrade.

Sound and Vision:
[B]Should I Buy a TV Now, or Wait for HDMI 2.1?[/B
''Here’s my take on the situation: HDMI 2.1 is going to make interesting stuff possible, but much of that is still several years out.''
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...XIWICiHJ6UW.97


Last edited by canali12; 04-16-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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post #60 of 69 Old 04-16-2017, 09:49 AM
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The biggest drawback that I see with HDMI 2.1 is the connection technology. A "special" 48Gbps HDMI cable will be required to get the full benefit of HDMI 2.1 but it apparently has a distance limitation (10' or less). Given the issues we are currently seeing with distance, HDMI 2.0a/b, and 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz I certainly hope that the connection technology catches up to the video technology before consumers start dropping money on the latest and greatest technology only to find out that they are having issues getting the full benefits of HDMI 2.1 at distances longer than about 20'.
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