Vizio Color Tuner Adjustments - By-Eye-Only! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 01-06-2017, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Vizio Color Tuner Adjustments - By-Eye-Only!


Welcome to the Vizio By-Eye-Only
Color Tuner Adjustment Thread.

This is not a Consumer-Calibration Equipment
or a Pro-Calibration Thread.


This is for those that wish to go on an adventure into the Color Tuner area, in particular, dealing with the 'Normal' Color Temperature Grayscale, if you are not interested in obtaining the equipment/software or hire a Professional Calibrator. There are separate Message Threads for that.

If your By-Eye-Only adjustments are not to your liking, the Color Tuner can easily be reset to its default settings.

The main target is the 'Normal' Color Temperature Grayscale within the SDR (Standard Dynamic Range). For now, I'm not attempting any 'Normal' Color Temperature Grayscale adjusting with HDR-DV or HDR-10. Any of you doing these or have done so, go ahead and post with your results. Otherwise, I don't recommend adventuring into these HDR areas for now.

(Always check back to this first post for added or updated info and any 'rules' for posting that I might add or change.)

Just to cover myself here... I shall not be held accountable or responsible if your TV or Display should act up, talk back to you, get up and run away, or anything else - coincidentally or otherwise.

I've proven to myself (and one other eyewitness) that an out-of-the-box TV or Display can be improved by Eye-Adjusting the Color Tuner (mainly, improving the otherwise 'maladjusted' Grayscale for a particular panel). I've been Eye-Adjusting the Color Tuner for some years now, dating back to the 2013 Vizio M40, the 2014 P50, and now my 2016 P50-C1.

At the bottom of this Post, I attached a pic of my latest Color Tuner Adjustment for better Grayscale and colors. Use my numbers just as a guide, as it is specific to my panel on this P50-C1.

Based on what I see now with recent Firmware Releases, including 3.0.14.0, many of you should see an improvement with the Color (especially the 'Norma' Color Temperature) and you may not need to or want to play around with the Color Tuner.

Checking your 'Normal' Color Temperature Grayscale:

Check your 'Normal' Color Temperature Grayscale by having one of your Custom Picture Modes that uses the 'Normal' Color Temperature or select the Calibrated or Calibrated Dark Picture Mode.

Now go to the Picture > Color Calibration > Calibration Tests and select Ramp Test Pattern (choose White). All 11 Bars should be various shades of gray, from White to Black. There should not be any slight color hues in any Bar such as blue, yellow, brown, pink, purple, green, red, etc.

I or any other poster who is familiar at doing this will attempt guide you to whatever numbers you arrive at for your particular Vizio Display or TV, in this 'experimental' Message Thread.



The 11-Point White Balance Grayscale



If any of the above 11 Bars have tinting colors of Blue, Purple, Green, Pinks, etc... Your device is maladjusted.



The choices what to do with your Display/TV are:

  • Do nothing and watch your TV or Display it as is.
  • Buy Calibration Equipment and do it yourself.
  • Hire a Pro.
  • Wait for Firmware Releases that will hopefully improve the color (Grayscale).
  • Do manual adjustments. If it looks worse, just Reset the Color Tuner back to where it was.

You could choose an unused Color Temperature to experiment with, such as 'Computer' or 'Cool' provided you are not using any Picture Mode, Custom or Default, that uses that Color Temperature.


(I'll add more details here on taking pics of your White Ramp Test Pattern and other Test Screen Patterns.)




.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	11-Bar Grayscale b.jpg
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ID:	1892977   Click image for larger version

Name:	11-Point White Balance Adjustments - Firmware 3.0.14.0 .jpeg
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Size:	195.8 KB
ID:	2014609  
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post #2 of 37 Old 01-07-2017, 02:47 PM
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I know "normal" is what apparently is the most "accurate" but with everything basically a "computer" these days, I've had good luck simply switching from Normal to Computer on all of the presets. For the average person who doesn't like the accurate warm picture that Normal provides, as it can come across a little orange, I recommend they start there. I use Vivid for HDR content, and Calibrated with all other content. Apparently under Vivid, Vizio has dialed in the most brightness for HDR, as CNET found.

Otherwise, I'd like to try some color settings adjustments myself, so I'm curious what others post.

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post #3 of 37 Old 01-07-2017, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

I know "Normal" is what apparently is the most
"accurate" but with everything basically a "computer"
these days, I've had good luck simply switching
from Normal to Computer on all of the presets.

For the average person who doesn't like
the accurate warm picture that Normal provides,
as it can come across a little orange, I recommend they start there.

Otherwise, I'd like to try some color settings
adjustments myself, so I'm curious what others post.


Usually, orange means too much color level. An overly 'Warm' Color Temperature certainly is not helping, either.

This Post/Reply is especially for those not fully understanding the industry standard, 'Normal' Color Temperature.

I'm all for anyone wanting to watch their Vizio Display anyway they want, but if paying big bucks for these Displays, especially the M-Series and P-Series, I hope the uninformed out there do not easily dismiss the importance of watching shows/movies with the Normal Color Temperature. The best and maximum color/B&W performance is with the Normal Color Temperature.

It's fair that a lot of owners, past and current - not on the current Beta Firmware, have found the Normal CT rather too much Yellow or bit of Green. This is because from all the pics or descriptions I've seen over the years here on AVS, with the Vizios, the Color Temps are out of 'alignment' for most panels. I'm not familiar with other brands, since I only dealt with Vizio TVs/Displays since the VP322 Plasma, the 2013 M40, the 2014 P502x, and now the 2016 P50-C1.

Thus, I can understand selecting 'Computer'. However, the current Beta has the best Normal CT yet, not being over-Yellow or Green. People who have watched Computer or Cool CT for a while, may find the 'better' more accurate 'Normal' CT still somewhat too 'Yellow' when they switch back - when the Wide Release Firmware comes out, soon. If you stay on the other CTs for too long, 'Normal' is going to take getting used to. Even the Computer CT, and especially 'Cool', are way, way too Blue. At least on my Display they are.

When one watches a 'decent' Normal CT for a while, the bit of Yellow one sees at first, looks quite 'White' after a while. I've been down this road before. Keyword being 'decent', which is now out in the last two Betas - and hopefully is going to carry over to the 'Wide' Firmware Release.

So, DanBfree... are you going to be the first one to post your White Ramp Test Pattern?


Oh, I just thought of Rule Number One. Please post any and all pics as Thumbs-only. No pic inserts into the posts.
Thank you.


.
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post #4 of 37 Old 01-07-2017, 05:37 PM
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I'm on the latest beta, I think I'll try normal and maybe use 2.1 gamma if that's not default already. I'm already seeing with beta that's the tint needs -2 to -3.

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post #5 of 37 Old 01-07-2017, 05:48 PM
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Wut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

Wut


Hey everyone! Bring your pitchforks! We gotta a live 'Metered' Calibrator invading this Thread! After him!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

I'm on the latest beta, I think I'll try normal and
maybe use 2.1 gamma if that's not default already.

I'm already seeing with beta that's the tint needs -2 to -3.


2.2 is the 'Default'. Go anywhere you need with this as a contrast control. I've been at 1.8 at times with NetFlix.

-2 or -3 on the Tint? Must be that slight green push with the Offset. I'd be curious if you tried my 11-Point settings to see what happens, just for Kicks-n-Googles.


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post #8 of 37 Old 01-07-2017, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
2.2 is the 'Default'. Go anywhere you need with this as a contrast control. I've been at 1.8 at times with NetFlix.

-2 or -3 on the Tint? Must be that slight green push with the Offset. I'd be curious if you tried my 11-Point settings to see what happens, just for Kicks-n-Googles.


.
I will absolutely give it a try on my 2016 65" M series when I can get the wife and daughter off of it... I'll reset to normal/calibrated default and try out the grey scale with 0 tint and let you know. I didn't know that gamma was a good one to adjust a lot, I'll keep that in mind.

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post #9 of 37 Old 01-08-2017, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

I didn't know that Gamma was a good one to adjust a lot.
I'll keep that in mind.



2.2 is the supposed ideal target. Trouble is, not all programs, content, sources present everything ideally setup for 2.2. With a tube TV, one would go to the Brightness and Contrast to adjust the pic as needed.

Today, with a lot of LCD/LED-Back-lit TVs/Displays, if they have the Gamma Control like our Vizios, that's the first thing to adjust for varying contrast - not the Brightness/Contrast as some would think.

To brighten or darken the picture while keeping the contrast the same, it's the Backlight Control that's adjusted. Not the 'old school' of reaching for the Brightness/Contrast controls on yesteryear's tube TVs.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
2.2 is the supposed ideal target. Trouble is, not all programs, content, sources present everything ideally setup for 2.2. With a tube TV, one would go to the Brightness and Contrast to adjust the pic as needed.

Today, with a lot of LCD/LED-Back-lit TVs/Displays, if they have the Gamma Control like our Vizios, that's the first thing to adjust for varying contrast - not the Brightness/Contrast as some would think.

To brighten or darken the picture while keeping the contrast the same, it's the Backlight Control that's adjusted. Not the 'old school' of reaching for the Brightness/Contrast controls on yesteryear's tube TVs.


.
Yes, backlight is definitely 100% personal choice, adjusting it won't affect the color... However I'm a little surprised on the gamma, but by leaving the color on Normal vs. Computer (cool is waaay too cool) I can see how using gamma and grey scale can dial it in just right... I'll give it a go tonight.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

Yes, backlight is definitely 100% personal
choice, adjusting it won't affect the color...


A caution about adjusting the Backlight.

Until more is known with HDR, Backlight may be best left at 50. Just keep Auto-Brightness On, and use the Low/Med/High/Off settings to control how bright you want the picture. Folks - anyone else... is this right?

At least that's what I'm doing for now.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
Hey everyone! Bring your pitchforks! We gotta a live 'Metered' Calibrator invading this Thread! After him!
And what is wrong with using a meter to perform a real calibration
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
A caution about adjusting the Backlight.

Until more is known with HDR, Backlight may be best left at 50. Just keep Auto-Brightness On, and use the Low/Med/High/Off settings to control how bright you want the picture. Folks - anyone else... is this right?

At least that's what I'm doing for now.



.
All the reviews I've seen say to leave auto brightness off and simply adjust to taste as it doesn't effect colors. I use backlight at 100 in Vivid for Amazon HDR to as low as 30-40 for evening low lighted cable viewing under Calibrated. Other settings for Amazon HDR are 50 even for contrast, brightness, color, etc with sharpness 0, all other processing off as well... I do like Reduce Judder of 3, but personal choice there. To the benefit of this thread, I am using Normal color, tint 0 with gamma 2.0 and all looks great. Latest beta 3.0.12.2.

Last edited by danbfree; 01-09-2017 at 11:16 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

And what is wrong with using a
meter to perform a real calibration?



Nutin'.

I just don't need any Meter-Calibrator posting nothing useful here, such as a 3-letter post.

This is not a Thread for Meter-Calibrators to come here to scoff or to recruit owners to get equipment or hire a Pro Calibrator. There are other Message Threads for that.

I started this Thread for those that otherwise have no interest now or ever to do the above-mentioned. Some may change their mind and get equipment or hire someone. That's fine.

This Thread is not Anti-Meter Calibration... it's just not a Thread 'about' or 'how to' Meter-Calibrate. It's about informing owners there's another option: Eye-Adjust the Grayscale when it's way-off on any particular panel. This is what I did back in 2013 on the Vizio M40. I made it better. Not Meter-Accurate... but it was made better than what I got out-of-the-box.

I did the same for the 2014 P50 and now my 2016 P50. I got my best Grayscale ever, and the colors and B&W content look amazing. I got a great picture with this Vizio in its price class. Certain scenes at times look like I'm looking through a window. It's like 2-and-a-Half-D.

There's history here... A decent Grayscale is not what many get. What that percentage is across all Vizio sets, I don't know... but there's a number of them if just going by the AVS Forum. I like that the CMS is consumer-available nowadays.

The difficulty with significant interaction adjustments makes it quite a challenge for most owners to even tackle Eye-Adjusting or Calibrating these Vizios! That's until these recent 2016 Vizios and the current Beta Firmware makes it much easier to do now, at least the By-Eye Grayscale Adjustments. (Gimme Five, Matt and Team Vizio!)

If you or any Meter-Calibrator have some useful information to aid in the Eye-Adjusting process, your welcome to post here.

If this Thread helps just 1 owner get a better Grayscale, it was worth starting this Message Thread.


"Thank you for Caring and Sharing."



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post #15 of 37 Old 01-09-2017, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

All the reviews I've seen say to leave auto brightness off
and simply adjust to taste
as it doesn't effect colors.

I use backlight at 100 in Vivid for Amazon HDR to as low as
30-40 for evening more lighted cable viewing under Calibrated.

Other settings for Amazon HDR are 50 even for contrast, brightness,
color, etc with sharpness 0, all other processing off as well...

I do like Reduce Judder of 3, but personal choice there.
To the benefit of this thread, I am using Normal color,
tint 0 with gamma 2.0 and all looks great.

Latest beta 3.0.12.2.



That's curious, in light of where I read somewhere a while back to leave the Backlight at 50 when it comes to HDR or at least one of the HDRs. I'd have to dig that up and read it again... but that's lower on my To Do List.

Does your White Ramp Test Patter show a tiny bit of Green-Tinting with the OffSet? (The darker, right half of Bars.)

I finished watching all 5-Seasons of "Person of Interest" last night and the colors and image looks awesome with the latest Beta Thirty-Twelve-Two and my Eye-Adjusted Grayscale.

____________________________________________


Folks, if you're on 2.2.7.4 right now... you're gonna love the next Wide Firmware Release, if this current pic quality carries over.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
Nutin'.

I just don't need any Meter-Calibrator posting nothing useful here, such as a 3-letter post.
A little sensitive are we?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
That's curious, in light of where I read somewhere a while back to leave the Backlight at 50 when it comes to HDR or at least one of the HDRs. I'd have to dig that up and read it again... but that's lower on my To Do List.

Does your White Ramp Test Patter show a tiny bit of Green-Tinting with the OffSet? (The darker, right half of Bars.)

I finished watching all 5-Seasons of "Person of Interest" last night and the colors and image looks awesome with the latest Beta Thirty-Twelve-Two and my Eye-Adjusted Grayscale.

____________________________________________


Folks, if you're on 2.2.7.4 right now... you're gonna love the next Wide Firmware Release, if this current pic quality carries over.
I ended up at Gamma 1.8, Contrast 70 for Amazon HDR from Roku... I'll try adjusting some grey scale tonight but I suppose it's good news for those running the beta that many "default" settings have improved, including no need to adjust tint... Also it is strange that some content needs contrast dropped to 30 to avoid washing out, while other content 50 is perfect... But in any case, Backlight is fine to adjust 100% to personal taste for actual "brightness", but don't mess with the actual Brightness setting. I'm looking forward to the official release too!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

A little sensitive are we?



Otto, I just wanted to set the tone for other certain Calibrators just in case they got nothing else to do and don't care to post something useful for this Thread.

What say you?


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I just finished watching the great,
Classic 1951

"The Day The Earth Stood Still",

In beautiful HD B&W.

Razor-Sharp, in all its Glorious Film Grain.





My Eye-Adjusted Grayscale comes through, again.

I think I like having the Black Detail (High). It gives the image a little bit of an HDR-pop.


"Tattoo! Beretta! Nicotine!"





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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
Otto, I just wanted to set the tone for other certain Calibrators just in case they got nothing else to do and don't care to post something useful for this Thread.

What say you?


.
I think that's fine as long as you make it clear that this is only an adjustment, not even close to a calibration, and why it may not work for everyone (component tolerance differences and viewing environment). In fact, this is one of my recommendations, tweaking to taste, if one doesn't want to take the time to adjust their own specific panel with a calibration disk.
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post #21 of 37 Old 01-09-2017, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I think that's fine as long as you make it clear that
this is only an adjustment, not even close to a calibration...



Are you reminding me or did I not make it clear in the first post?


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post #22 of 37 Old 01-09-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
Are you reminding me or did I not make it clear in the first post?

You did. My suggestion is that if you're going to start a settings sharing post, then it might be nice to add a caveat to all of your posts that this is an adjustment only and your results may vary due to component tolerance differences from panel to panel. You do have some technical information (grayscale discussion) which probably goes over the head of newbies. If you're going to take on the roll as an educator, then do so. You don't want some newbie to update his panel, apply your suggestions, and then wonder why it doesn't look good. The last thing you want is for someone to think the update borked his panel, or that he got a bad panel in the first place. A little more explanation may go far in a case like that. If the thread becomes popular, and I have no reason to think otherwise, a lot of folks aren't going to go back to post #1. A little more clarity for subsequent posts might be a good idea.
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post #23 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Update:

Added The 11-Point White Balance Grayscale Chart

See Post Number 1





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post #24 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 10:31 AM
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Those of you who have a Galaxy S7 probably are aware that when the screen is set to "basic" mode it is nearly a perfect rec709 colorspace with a spot on D65 white. Why not simply use the above pattern on your Galaxy S7 and television at the same time and adjust the 2pt white balance until it matches?

Here:

http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S7_ShootOut_1.htm

Last edited by redwolf4k; 01-13-2017 at 10:34 AM.
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post #25 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post
Those of you who have a Galaxy S7 probably are aware that when the screen is set to "basic" mode it is nearly a perfect rec709 colorspace with a spot on D65 white. Why not simply use the above pattern on your Galaxy S7 and television at the same time and adjust the 2pt white balance until it matches?

Here:

http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S7_ShootOut_1.htm
If it looks good to you then that's fine. But all you're doing is adjusting your tv panel to the phone, and you will still have the same issue of component tolerance variability. Just because the phone is supposedly dead on for Rec. 709, that doesn't mean that if you adjust your panel to the phone that those adjustments will translate well to the tv's components, which are vastly different from the phone. You're better off to use settings derived from another tv than a phone.
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post #26 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
.

"My suggestion is that if you're going to start a settings sharing post..."

Not really trying to 'share' the numbers. Each owner (panel) will come up
with whatever set of numbers to Gray-it by eye.

"A caveat to all of your posts that this is an adjustment only..."

The first post will emphasize such. From time to time, I'll post a
First Post link Update. Plus, I'll put this in my Sig. Plus, I'll post
signs at every highway and byway, and by air and by sea. See?

"Newbie to update his panel ... then wonder why it doesn't look good..."

I covered this in the first post. I can certainly emphasize it again and again.
Plus, I could put in an additional disclaimer, "If you can't follow directions
and you do not have a clue what you are doing... don't do this.
"

"If the thread becomes popular, and I have no reason to think otherwise..."

Popular? Will I be on TV?

"A lot of folks aren't going to go back to post Number 1..."

They better. It's stated in the First Post.

Otto, seems you're gonna be sticking around this Thread. Can I announce
you as my side-kick?


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post #27 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 03:41 PM
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^^^^ so you're ok with someone wanting to use their phone to adjust their tv and don't feel the need to educate them on why it might not work well? As far as being your side-kick, thank you for the offer but I'll have to respectfully decline. I prefer to do things the proper way.
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post #28 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
.
"So you're ok with someone wanting to use their phone to adjust their [Display]
and don't feel the need to educate them on why it might not work well?"


I didn't say that. You replied with your concerns. But if that helps for the
better - and improves from what they had, why not try it? Provided the Test Pattern
looks gray on their device or print-out.

Mainly, I posted the image for a visual what a Grayscale looks like, providing
their computer monitor or other device is not so far out of color/Grayscale
adjustment. I bet whatever someone uses to view that image, the GS Pattern will
look a lot better than most of Vizio's GS on many Displays/TVs. (Ducking.)

"As far as being your side-kick, thank you for the offer but I'll have
to respectfully decline..."


Then please depart from this Thread, lest I report you to a moderator.


"...I prefer to do things the proper way."

Some owners ARE NOT going to ever get equipment or hire a Pro Calibrator.
Do they need to sit there and watch a poorer Grayscale or possibly make an
attempt to adjust it themselves? Let them decide if they want to tackle this.

I have stated already the cautions of doing Grayscale Adjustments, and if it's
not to one's liking, no harm, no foul. The Color Tuner can easily be RESET!

I don't need Meter-Calibrators coming in here screaming, 'Fire' and spooking
someone away from trying something. I'm one of those who stood up and
did this Eye-Adjusting years ago, and it worked. If I ended up following every post
that warn not to do this, I'd still be watching YEARS of tainted Grayscale to this
very day!

So, can I not share this with others?



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post #29 of 37 Old 01-13-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post
[COLOR=DarkOrange]
Then please depart from this Thread, lest I report you to a moderator.
Done. I beat you to it.
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post #30 of 37 Old 01-14-2017, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
If it looks good to you then that's fine. But all you're doing is adjusting your tv panel to the phone, and you will still have the same issue of component tolerance variability. Just because the phone is supposedly dead on for Rec. 709, that doesn't mean that if you adjust your panel to the phone that those adjustments will translate well to the tv's components, which are vastly different from the phone. You're better off to use settings derived from another tv than a phone.
Isn't this an adjusting by eye thread? You think using an accurate optical compartor like test patterns on an accurate rec709 device is innacurate? You suggest copying settings over that method? It wasnt too many years ago that optical comparitors were used in the field. I am referring to grayscale here.

I dont have the tv in question, but generally speaking I dont see how using an optical comparitor that has been confirmed accurate is less beneficial than what this threads title suggests.

Last edited by redwolf4k; 01-14-2017 at 06:34 AM.
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