2017 TCL P Series - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 203 Old 04-11-2017, 10:51 AM
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The listed brightness refers to SDR. The HDR brightness spec is empty for some reason.
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post #92 of 203 Old 04-11-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Oledtech View Post
The listed brightness refers to SDR. The HDR brightness spec is empty for some reason.
yep, in the data sheet brightness is listed as 390 nits and hdr is not even acknowledged.

Screen size (inches/cm) 65 / 165
Visible screen size : diagonal(inches/cm) 65 / 164
Panel resolution UHD
Wide color Technology Wide Color Gamut
Brightness (cd/m²) 390
HDR (High Dynamic Range) -
HDR brightness -

Picture Performance Index* 1200
Resolution 3840x2160
Curved / Curvature -
10 bit panel Yes
Dynamic contrast Mega
Picture processing Pure Image Ultra HD
Dimming -
Ultra AR coating Yes
UHD upscaling Super Resolution EX
Color management UHD Color Extender
Digital Noise Reduction Yes
Film Mode Yes
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post #93 of 203 Old 04-11-2017, 11:44 AM
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I would not get too concerned about the specs for a 2016 year model non-HDR EU TV. TCL releases very different technology in differ by regions and the S79 isn't even top of the one in EU any way. Top of the line in EU last year was the X1 but even it does not have as good of description as the limited description TCL gave of the C and P series US tvs at CRS.
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post #94 of 203 Old 04-11-2017, 01:02 PM
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I would not get too concerned about the specs for a 2016 year model non-HDR EU TV. TCL releases very different technology in differ by regions and the S79 isn't even top of the one in EU any way. Top of the line in EU last year was the X1 but even it does not have as good of description as the limited description TCL gave of the C and P series US tvs at CRS.
The x1 and CityLine s79 are listed in the "new" category. Thus the assumption the S79 is new, not last year.
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post #95 of 203 Old 04-11-2017, 01:53 PM
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The S79 came out and was reviewed in June last year and the X1 in September. Both were announced at CES in Jan 2016. They just dont anything newer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0PQNePepIPY
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post #96 of 203 Old 04-12-2017, 02:19 PM
 
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P and C series now showing on home page but link seems to be broken. Maybe we will get some more info soon.

http://www.tclusa.com/
Link is fixed. Info on TCL C and P series.
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post #97 of 203 Old 04-12-2017, 02:35 PM
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Unfortunately the link just sends you to the same page they put out during CES. No new info yet.
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post #98 of 203 Old 04-16-2017, 09:17 AM
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I can't imagine it not being a 10-bit panel with them hyping up DV and all, but I'm definitely not holding out hope for 120hz. That's mostly just a nice-to-have for me. I rarely use my PC on the big screen and when I do, sure 120hz would be great, but capping at a super smooth 60 fps is "good enough" for those rare use cases, for me personally anyway. If I want the super high framerates I'll just continue to use my Dell S2716DG monitor (until high-performance HDR G-SYNC/FreeSync monitors become available/affordable........)
That's not why you want a 120Hz panel . It's for 3:2 pulldown, otherwise you're going to get a visible stutter on 24p based material (120 is a multiple of 24, 60 is not). 60Hz TV is what you'd want if you were using it mainly as a PC display. There are no TV's that I know of that can pump out 120 fps @ 4k connected to a PC (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

So if you plan on watching a lot of theatrical based materials, or TV shows on Netflix, or pretty much anything that's not sports, it's advantageous to get a true 120Hz panel.
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post #99 of 203 Old 04-17-2017, 10:24 AM
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That's not why you want a 120Hz panel . It's for 3:2 pulldown, otherwise you're going to get a visible stutter on 24p based material (120 is a multiple of 24, 60 is not). 60Hz TV is what you'd want if you were using it mainly as a PC display. There are no TV's that I know of that can pump out 120 fps @ 4k connected to a PC (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

So if you plan on watching a lot of theatrical based materials, or TV shows on Netflix, or pretty much anything that's not sports, it's advantageous to get a true 120Hz panel.
120hz is still advantageous for PC not because of trying to do [email protected] (other 120hz TVs out right now don't even support this anyway), but for [email protected] If you use it as a gaming monitor then higher framerate is generally considered more important than higher resolution, although that is subjective

Good point though about 3:2 pulldown, I hadn't considered that. On the other hand, if the panel is capable of running at 24hz or 48hz then there would be no issue, aren't some other TVs capable of this?

EDIT: Based on some brief Google/Rtings research, most other TVs these days, including the two 60hz TCL TVs that Rtings reviewed last year, are capable of playing 24p content judder-free, from sources like a Blu-Ray player or the built-in apps. The judder problem occurs when playing from a locked 60p/60i source, like a set-top or cable box. Some higher end TVs can actually remove judder from 60p/60i sources, but most of my viewing content will be movies and TV shows from the built-in apps, or games from my Xbox, so I don't really care about that capability to remove judder from 60p sources. I will use my Xbox as a Blu-Ray player though and I'm not sure if it supports outputting 24hz or if it stays locked at 60hz...need to research that.
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post #100 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 11:27 AM
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TCL at Walmart

TCL had their 55" S series for $400 (65" for $600 equivalent) on the shelf at Walmart last week. Nothing on the wall display so one couldn't compare it to LB, Sony, Samsung. Assuming a BOM at 50% of ASP, the BOM for the 65" S series would be about $300 and about $500 for the 65" P series ($1000 ASP).

Thus TCL has $200 to improve the picture quality of the P series over the S series.

70 zone FALD (vs FA) for improved contrast
LED with FPS phosphors (vs std phosphors) for WCG
Panel 10 bit (vs 8) to diminish banding

Panel native contrast assumed to be the same (all panels assumed to come from the same production line at TCL's factory ~3500:1 per rtings)

Brightness the big unknown. C series said to be 400 nits. Seems a P series FALD should be able to do better than the edge lit C series.

I can buy an 800 human 8W LED light bulb for $2. A 65" tv has ~1.3 m^2 of surface area. So a 1000 nits display needs 1300 lumens. Taking into account loses of 2x (polarizer) and 3x(color filter), one needs a 7800 lumen BLU. So one needs about 10 bulbs equivalent or 80W from the power supply and $20.

So $50 for the FALD BLU, $50 for the FPS phosphors LEDs, $50 for the 10 bit panel, and $50 for 1000 nits.

Seems doable.

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post #101 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
120hz is still advantageous for PC not because of trying to do [email protected] (other 120hz TVs out right now don't even support this anyway), but for [email protected] If you use it as a gaming monitor then higher framerate is generally considered more important than higher resolution, although that is subjective

Good point though about 3:2 pulldown, I hadn't considered that. On the other hand, if the panel is capable of running at 24hz or 48hz then there would be no issue, aren't some other TVs capable of this?

EDIT: Based on some brief Google/Rtings research, most other TVs these days, including the two 60hz TCL TVs that Rtings reviewed last year, are capable of playing 24p content judder-free, from sources like a Blu-Ray player or the built-in apps. The judder problem occurs when playing from a locked 60p/60i source, like a set-top or cable box. Some higher end TVs can actually remove judder from 60p/60i sources, but most of my viewing content will be movies and TV shows from the built-in apps, or games from my Xbox, so I don't really care about that capability to remove judder from 60p sources. I will use my Xbox as a Blu-Ray player though and I'm not sure if it supports outputting 24hz or if it stays locked at 60hz...need to research that.
I'm skeptical as to whether a 60Hz can produce "Judder Free" 23.97 output. It doesn't add up. Sure the motion processing might be better than on some other 60Hz TVs, but it doesn't seem doable.

I didn't bring up 1080p/120fps on a PC because I didn't think many 120Hz TVs can actually do it. I have a Sharp 60" 120Hz 1080p and it can't. Stutter free 23.97 playback tho, so I don't know if I want to do a 60Hz 4k TV at this point. Unfortunately I can't afford a 65" 120Hz 4k TV and that's what I really want.

In the end if the TCL 65" P handles 23.97 output good enough I just might go with it anyways...

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post #102 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 12:54 PM
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I'm skeptical as to whether a 60Hz can produce "Judder Free" 23.97 output. It doesn't add up. Sure the motion processing might be better than on some other 60Hz TVs, but it doesn't seem doable.

I didn't bring up 1080p/120fps on a PC because I didn't think many 120Hz TVs can actually do it. I have a Sharp 60" 120Hz 1080p and it can't. Stutter free 23.97 playback tho, so I don't know if I want to do a 60Hz 4k TV at this point. Unfortunately I can't afford a 65" 120Hz 4k TV and that's what I really want.

In the end if the TCL 65" P handles 23.97 output good enough I just might go with it anyways...
There's no reason to be skeptical, go look at info on Rtings for yourself. On the TVs that support it, 60hz isn't a locked refresh rate, it's just the max rated refresh rate, that's why 24hz source material can still be displayed judder-free. Just like a 144hz computer monitor doesn't have to run at 144hz all the time, you can set that in your computer's display settings and run it at a lower refresh rate like 120, or 90 or 60, whatever. Now, as for TVs that can actually remove judder from a 60p/60i source that is playing 24hz content (set-top box etc.), what happens there is it can analyze the 60p/60i signal as it receives it, and it sees where the frames are being duplicated unevenly (that's what judder is, some frames get duplicated more than other frames and thus you see them on-screen for a fraction of a second longer, making the "judder"), and removes those extra duplicate frames, thus creating a smooth image with all frames being displayed the same amount of time on-screen. Like I said, this feature is only available on higher end TVs usually, presumably because it requires extra processing power and special algorithms, but it does exist and is possible. You just need to research the TV you buy, rather than simply hoping that it'll do what you hope for.

Off the top of my head, the Vizio P series (2016), Sony 2017 lineup, and LG 2017 OLED lineup are all capable of [email protected] I know others support it too but I can't remember without looking it up. I know the Samsung KS8000 is not a true 120hz panel which is really irritating when its direct competition (Sony, Vizio) is all 120hz. This is a specific spec that Rtings tests for on all the TVs they review, btw.

Is your Sharp TV a "true" 120hz panel or does it just have a motion interpolation setting up to 120hz? Cause that's not the same thing.
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post #103 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
There's no reason to be skeptical, go look at info on Rtings for yourself. On the TVs that support it, 60hz isn't a locked refresh rate, it's just the max rated refresh rate, that's why 24hz source material can still be displayed judder-free. Just like a 144hz computer monitor doesn't have to run at 144hz all the time, you can set that in your computer's display settings and run it at a lower refresh rate like 120, or 90 or 60, whatever. Now, as for TVs that can actually remove judder from a 60p/60i source that is playing 24hz content (set-top box etc.), what happens there is it can analyze the 60p/60i signal as it receives it, and it sees where the frames are being duplicated unevenly (that's what judder is, some frames get duplicated more than other frames and thus you see them on-screen for a fraction of a second longer, making the "judder"), and removes those extra duplicate frames, thus creating a smooth image with all frames being displayed the same amount of time on-screen. Like I said, this feature is only available on higher end TVs usually, presumably because it requires extra processing power and special algorithms, but it does exist and is possible. You just need to research the TV you buy, rather than simply hoping that it'll do what you hope for.

Off the top of my head, the Vizio P series (2016), Sony 2017 lineup, and LG 2017 OLED lineup are all capable of [email protected] I know others support it too but I can't remember without looking it up. I know the Samsung KS8000 is not a true 120hz panel which is really irritating when its direct competition (Sony, Vizio) is all 120hz. This is a specific spec that Rtings tests for on all the TVs they review, btw.

Is your Sharp TV a "true" 120hz panel or does it just have a motion interpolation setting up to 120hz? Cause that's not the same thing.
Thanks- I'm hoping the TCL 65-P is a good set. I already have a Shield, PS4 Pro and UHD player waiting for it. I would have purchased the Hisense 65H8C but apparently there is some stutter with 23.97.

AFAIK my Sharp lc60e78un is a real 120Hz TV.

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post #104 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 02:16 PM
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Thanks- I'm hoping the TCL 65-P is a good set. I already have a Shield, PS4 Pro and UHD player waiting for it. I would have purchased the Hisense 65H8C but apparently there is some stutter with 23.97.

AFAIK my Sharp lc60e78un is a real 120Hz TV.
I'll be going for the 55" if it's a good set, but yeah I'm hoping it's good too. I don't expect its picture quality to truly come all the way up to stand head-to-head with TVs like the Sony x900e but if it's anywhere close, the significantly lower price makes it hugely worth it to me. But it's gotta have decent input lag for HDR gaming...TCL's existing/previous TVs aren't great in the input lag department so I'm kind of worried about this. But the Roku TV OS looks super awesome and honestly has kinda turned me off of pretty much anything else. I know I don't want to stick with Vizio's casting system (I currently have one, still within return window). Samsung's Tizen looks nice but I have other issues with Samsung sets that hold me back. Android TV would be my second choice behind Roku, since you get access to so many apps that are already in the Play Store, like Kodi and games etc., and that leaves options very wide open in the future for devs to keep putting out new apps and updates to existing ones, since the Android ecosystem is huge. The really killer feature of Roku TV is the live TV pausing, plus it always gets rated as one of the smoothest and easiest to use TV OSes out there.

I have checked out the Hisense sets a few different times and there just isn't one in this year's lineup that fits what I want. The models with all the features I'd like to have only come in gigantor sizes that don't work for me, and the smaller sizes are all each missing at least 1 or 2 things that I really would prefer. If the TCL sets turn out good they will be much better buys than the Hisense, for my personal situation at least.
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post #105 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 02:40 PM
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If you're interested in Android TV apps with no gaming just buy a MiBox. I have a Shield but I don't really use it for gaming. Had I known the MiBox was coming out I would have bought that. Whatever the Roku OS can do Android TV can do better- especially after Google Assistant comes out next month.
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post #106 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 06:14 PM
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If you're interested in Android TV apps with no gaming just buy a MiBox. I have a Shield but I don't really use it for gaming. Had I known the MiBox was coming out I would have bought that. Whatever the Roku OS can do Android TV can do better- especially after Google Assistant comes out next month.
Can Android TV pause a live TV feed for up to 30 minutes? Is there an app for that? I genuinely am asking.
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post #107 of 203 Old 04-18-2017, 07:58 PM
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Can Android TV pause a live TV feed for up to 30 minutes? Is there an app for that? I genuinely am asking.
Live Channels can pause live TV and record with the latest Android 7 update on the Shield (it also works with the Nexus Player), although for how long I'm not sure- I need to hook up a larger hard drive to test it (I'm able to rewind live TV 15mins with a 64GB SD card). Right now the Shield only works with HDHomerun tuners but the Nexus Player also works with some USB tuners as well- the Shield will gain this functionality with an update. You can also do PIP which is kind of neat. I have no idea about the MiBox though- you might want to check the Android TV forum on Reddit for that.

Even though 2yrs old the Shield is still the most powerful box on the market by far. SPMC, lossless output, Plex server, etc, etc. Really waiting on Google Assistant/Nvidia Spot combo so I can control my setup by voice.

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post #108 of 203 Old 04-19-2017, 08:12 AM
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Live Channels can pause live TV and record with the latest Android 7 update on the Shield (it also works with the Nexus Player), although for how long I'm not sure- I need to hook up a larger hard drive to test it (I'm able to rewind live TV 15mins with a 64GB SD card). Right now the Shield only works with HDHomerun tuners but the Nexus Player also works with some USB tuners as well- the Shield will gain this functionality with an update. You can also do PIP which is kind of neat. I have no idea about the MiBox though- you might want to check the Android TV forum on Reddit for that.

Even though 2yrs old the Shield is still the most powerful box on the market by far. SPMC, lossless output, Plex server, etc, etc. Really waiting on Google Assistant/Nvidia Spot combo so I can control my setup by voice.
Thanks for the info. I will definitely look into that stuff, although I'm more interested about the possibilities for Android TV on the Sony TV rather than the MiBox or Shield, I really don't want to add another box to my setup, no matter how small. And if I go with the Sony it's already going to be irritating enough having that giant external power brick lol.
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Thanks for the info. I will definitely look into that stuff, although I'm more interested about the possibilities for Android TV on the Sony TV rather than the MiBox or Shield, I really don't want to add another box to my setup, no matter how small. And if I go with the Sony it's already going to be irritating enough having that giant external power brick lol.
I hear the 2016 Sony TV's iteration of Android TV is pretty weak. CPU, etc. I think they just updated it to Marshmallow- probably never get Nougat update. Maybe their 2017 TV's will be better.

Think of it this way- don't buy your TV for the smart features, buy the best PQ you can afford. You're going to end up buying a box anyways, the smart features will become obsolete way before the TV.

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I hear the 2016 Sony TV's iteration of Android TV is pretty weak. CPU, etc. I think they just updated it to Marshmallow- probably never get Nougat update. Maybe their 2017 TV's will be better.

Think of it this way- don't buy your TV for the smart features, buy the best PQ you can afford. You're going to end up buying a box anyways, the smart features will become obsolete way before the TV.
Yeah I would be going for a 2017 Sony not a 2016. And the 2017 x900e is looking like the absolute best PQ of the mid-tier TVs of 2017, so if I went for that TV I would in fact be buying the best PQ I can afford (aside from a used LG B6 OLED, but I am pretty confident that I'll never buy a used TV because that rules out the ability of getting extended warranty).

I think I disagree with you though on the point about smart features becoming obsolete. I still use OTA broadcast channels and having a set with the built-in ability to pause live TV would never be obsolete as long as broadcast TV still exists. Netflix, Amazon Video, Hulu, etc., those services may someday become obsolete, but not for a long time, most likely. The idea that I will end up inevitably getting a box someday is also not really true, especially considering I already have an Xbox that functions as that "box" whenever the TV doesn't have the features I need. I do not want nor do I need another box in addition to the Xbox. The reason I am looking for specific smart features in a TV though is because it's easier/quicker to not have to turn on the Xbox, and it also conserves some power (however insignificant, it's still true) to keep the Xbox turned off.
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post #111 of 203 Old 04-28-2017, 12:59 PM
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Hey Guys! I'm really looking forward to this set and the C series. Has anyone thought about how it will play with HDMI 2.1? Apparently Xbox Scorpio will support this / GSynch...and it would be great to get a future proof tv in that sense. Assuming that's too much to ask from these sets, right?
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post #112 of 203 Old 04-28-2017, 01:34 PM
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Hey Guys! I'm really looking forward to this set and the C series. Has anyone thought about how it will play with HDMI 2.1? Apparently Xbox Scorpio will support this / GSynch...and it would be great to get a future proof tv in that sense. Assuming that's too much to ask from these sets, right?
I'm pretty sure no sets releasing this year support HDMI 2.1. Maybe if there's something releasing at the tail-end of 2017 it could be the first TV with 2.1 but otherwise, you gotta wait till next year's releases.

And if there is 2.1 on any TVs this year, it most definitely will not be on a budget/mid-tier TCL TV.

Also fyi, Scorpio does not support G-SYNC (proprietary to Nvidia), it supports FreeSync (open-source and used on AMD's GPUs). There are basically zero TVs out there with variable refresh rate at this point, and it requires HDMI 2.1 so that won't be coming till next year either. If you're extremely bent on getting those features then you simply shouldn't buy a new TV right now, unless you're ok with upgrading again in a year.
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post #113 of 203 Old 04-28-2017, 01:44 PM
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Hey Guys! I'm really looking forward to this set and the C series. Has anyone thought about how it will play with HDMI 2.1? Apparently Xbox Scorpio will support this / GSynch...and it would be great to get a future proof tv in that sense. Assuming that's too much to ask from these sets, right?
Too much to ask from any set this year. HDMI 2.1 will probably be a feature next year and who knows if anything will come of Freesync in the TV market anytime soon. That's exactly why I'm looking at this model. It's a cheaper set that will hold me over until that stuff gets ironed out over the next couple years.
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post #114 of 203 Old 04-28-2017, 09:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessunion View Post
Hey Guys! I'm really looking forward to this set and the C series. Has anyone thought about how it will play with HDMI 2.1? Apparently Xbox Scorpio will support this / GSynch...and it would be great to get a future proof tv in that sense. Assuming that's too much to ask from these sets, right?
Earliest for HDMI 2.1 would be 4h quarter 2017. Although, apparently some HDMI 2.0b chipsets could be firmware up-gradable. Also, I believe the Scorpio is using Freesync II VFR (Variable Frame Rate). I am hoping the Hisense 75H10D is firmware up-gradable.
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post #115 of 203 Old 04-28-2017, 10:04 PM
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Anyone know if there has been any indication to the release date of these or the new Hisense sets? Figured it would be right around this time but I guess not
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post #116 of 203 Old 04-29-2017, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by blu718 View Post
Anyone know if there has been any indication to the release date of these or the new Hisense sets? Figured it would be right around this time but I guess not
sometime in May
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post #117 of 203 Old 04-29-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by blu718 View Post
Anyone know if there has been any indication to the release date of these or the new Hisense sets? Figured it would be right around this time but I guess not
I wrote TCL USA on twitter and asked the other day and they said late May/early June.
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post #118 of 203 Old 04-29-2017, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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So excited!

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post #119 of 203 Old 04-29-2017, 11:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessunion View Post
Hey Guys! I'm really looking forward to this set and the C series. Has anyone thought about how it will play with HDMI 2.1? Apparently Xbox Scorpio will support this / GSynch...and it would be great to get a future proof tv in that sense. Assuming that's too much to ask from these sets, right?
Future-proof TV is an outdated term. The current pace of things leaves TVs outdated after several years. This leaves you to suck up to the fact that you have an outdated TV and just ignore all the changes or buy cheaper TVs so that you upgrade more frequently (unless you have the money to buy nicer TVs and upgrade frequently).
They keep fighting between standards, add features, increase brightness, change HDMI standards, maybe get into the 4K 120fps range, make brightness levels higher, etc. And then we're going to start hitting 8K and it's going to cycle all over again.
What you're asking is too much of pretty much every set. Even the fancy, expensive OLEDs.
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post #120 of 203 Old 04-30-2017, 10:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by audacious nick View Post
Future-proof TV is an outdated term. The current pace of things leaves TVs outdated after several years. This leaves you to suck up to the fact that you have an outdated TV and just ignore all the changes or buy cheaper TVs so that you upgrade more frequently (unless you have the money to buy nicer TVs and upgrade frequently).
They keep fighting between standards, add features, increase brightness, change HDMI standards, maybe get into the 4K 120fps range, make brightness levels higher, etc. And then we're going to start hitting 8K and it's going to cycle all over again.
What you're asking is too much of pretty much every set. Even the fancy, expensive OLEDs.
That is true for the most part, but you are still going from a 18mbps pipe to a 48 mbps pipe with HDMI 2.1. And that is usually the most important bottleneck from preventing you form using new tech. I think once HDMI 2.1 is out you will have a display they can take most inputs for the next 10 years. Of course there will still be advance like PL-QLED and EL-QLED, but you will not miss out on [email protected], 8K 4:4:4 or even true 4K 3D if they ever decide to come up with a standard.
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