***Official*** LeEco 2016 UMax85 Owners Thread (UHD/HDR/DV) No Price Talk Please - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2341 of 3152 Old 02-23-2018, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mfish234 View Post
Thanks for the detailed feedback. Sounds like you're still a happy camper on CN firmware.

I've probably asked a million times by now but are you still satisfied with shadow detail, lack of black crush, not having a washed out picture in SDR mode (brightness control)?

With having to share the picture settings with HDR10 and SDR do you ever feel like your settings look good for HDR10 but not SDR or vice versa? The other thing I never tried, was let's say you get the TV in HDR10 mode (put on HDR10 content) and then change to another picture setting "place holder" (e.g. standard mode) and you were using let's say using movie mode for SDR. Will the TV automatically then switch to standard mode when he get's an HDR10 signal and revert back to move mode when you go back to SDR content? In other words if I wanted independent settings is there anyway to make the TV automatically switch to a different settings "place holder" when it senses HDR10 content. If I felt the need to have independent settings it would be tedious to manually switch depending on content. I really like that the US firmware does the auto switch to an HDR settings "place holder" with it's own independent settings.

That sounds very promising with having the ATV push everything to Dolby Vision. Guess you have to watch more content but that's good that challenging content looks good. I would assume it has some smarts to it to add the metadata and translate SDR content to faux DV content. If that yields consistently good picture quality results then I can throw out all my above CN firmware SDR / HDR10 concerns and just run the sucker in DV mode all the time from the ATV. I'm a cable cutter and stream everything so that would work well for me.

Anxious to get my flickering set back from the shop so I can start playing again.
Reading back through the past couple of days' worth of comments it looks like there's already been a lot of feedback on these points but I'll provide mine anyway for the record....

Within the context of the content I tend to watch most often via the sources I have in my system, I can say categorically:

1. I am very satisfied with shadow detail and lack of black crush, and have never felt like the picture was in any way "washed out" in SDR mode (or any other mode for that matter). I cannot say that blacks are "perfect" on this TV because I do not have much experience at all with LED LCD flat panels to compare it to, but I can say that I've never seen anything that makes me think the black/dark detail performance of this TV is in any way deficient. To the contrary, walking through a Best Buy and look over the Wall 'o TVs playing the demo feeds, I've yet to see a set that looks in any way better to my eyes than the uMax.

2. I've never felt like having to share picture settings between HDR10 and SDR (as the CN firmware requires) impairs the PQ on either in any way.

3. I'm sorry but I'm not at all following your questions about picture setting "place holders" and independent settings? On the CN firmware, changing picture mode has no effect on whether the TV is displaying HDR or SDR as those dynamic range settings are entirely content-driven and are made automatically by the TV. And, of course, when the TV is in DV mode, you only have a choice of two picture modes: Dolby Vision Bright and Dolby Vision Dark.

4. I'm now a true believer in leaving the ATV4K in force-DV mode for all content across all apps/sources (at least those I've played with thus far). I really have no idea what dark sorcery the ATV is employing to make the TV switch into DV mode to display content we all just *know* isn't actually encoded with DV metadata, but whatever...I for one welcome our new Apple DV Magic Overlords because the PQ is simply spectacular to my eyes. It's the closest thing to 4K disc quality I've seen from any streaming device yet. The one negative I have noticed is that forcing DV on all content seems to mess with the motion handling by introducing an extra bit of judder that isn't present when the "Match Dynamic Range" setting is set to "On". Toggling the "Match Frame Rate" setting between "On" and "Off" doesn't seem to fix this issue, at least to my eyes. Turning the TV's "Motion" setting to anything other than "Off" fixes this issue completely, but introduces pronounced visible "Soap Opera Effect" for me, even on "Low", and that is something I'm particularly sensitive to and absolutely cannot stand in any degree...I'll take almost any amount of judder over SOE but of course that's just my own preference.
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post #2342 of 3152 Old 02-23-2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Game Fan View Post
You hit the nail on the head. This is the reason I don't get my TV calibrated, along with the fact of living in the middle of nowhere, or ask for anyone's picture settings. It's not hubris, it's just so subjective. What I think looks good, may not to anyone else and vice a versa. I enjoy having it dialed in for me and reading about others having theirs dialed in for them. I also think the input source plays a major part in picture quality. I have the input sources that work best for me and I'm extremely happy with the picture quality of the TV. Now, if we could just get the XDA guy or someone else to help us out and implement our wish list of tweaks, we'd have as close to a perfect TV as there is.
Completely agree, 100%. Truth be told, for me this TV is damn near perfect even without that wish list of tweaks.
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post #2343 of 3152 Old 02-24-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by IBNR View Post
Sorry, I saw your first post the other day and meant to respond....

I've watched a lot of 3D content on this TV from at least two different sources (disc and cable box), and I have not experienced anything like what you are describing. While I haven't tried to watch the specific content you mention (Civil War), I have a hard time believing that this problem is content-based...but maybe it is, especially since you report no problems with Avatar and Rogue One (which I just watched this evening, stunning!).

The only thing I can think of is that something is going on with the glasses you are using, possibly a low-power situation? Are the glasses the OEM LeTV units, or something different? Have you checked to make sure the batteries aren't dead or dying, or if you're using another type of glasses do they need to be charged?
Thank you, The glasses that I was having issues with were both the Le Ecco ones that it came with as well as a charged pair of expand vision. It was odd that all three times both users glasses cit out at the exact same time
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post #2344 of 3152 Old 02-24-2018, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by IBNR View Post
I'm now a true believer in leaving the ATV4K in force-DV mode for all content across all apps/sources (at least those I've played with thus far). I really have no idea what dark sorcery the ATV is employing to make the TV switch into DV mode to display content we all just *know* isn't actually encoded with DV metadata, but whatever...I for one welcome our new Apple DV Magic Overlords because the PQ is simply spectacular to my eyes. It's the closest thing to 4K disc quality I've seen from any streaming device yet. The one negative I have noticed is that forcing DV on all content seems to mess with the motion handling by introducing an extra bit of judder that isn't present when the "Match Dynamic Range" setting is set to "On". Toggling the "Match Frame Rate" setting between "On" and "Off" doesn't seem to fix this issue, at least to my eyes. Turning the TV's "Motion" setting to anything other than "Off" fixes this issue completely, but introduces pronounced visible "Soap Opera Effect" for me, even on "Low", and that is something I'm particularly sensitive to and absolutely cannot stand in any degree...I'll take almost any amount of judder over SOE but of course that's just my own preference.
Spent a bit of time playing with the ATV4K in forced DV as well as 4K SDR Matching dynamic range & frame rate (the preferred mode according to the OP and current posters on the Apple TV thread). I also find that watching all content with the Dolby Vision mode on by turning matching dynamic range off, yields the best images via streaming on my tv. I may not be as sensitive to motion artifacts because I didn’t notice any.

Additionally, I compared viewing an identical purchased movie, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, through Vudu on both the Roku Ultra in HDR and the ATV4K in SDR forced onto Dolby Vision. That settled it for me, the Roku’s HDR using the tv’s Movie mode settings couldn’t come close to the ATV’s forced DV picture in terms of overall detail and color palate. I’m sure a fairer comparison for the Roku Ultra could be done with the original firmware when the specific HDR mode is employed. But, with the CN firmware, I concur with the observations of IBNR.
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post #2345 of 3152 Old 02-24-2018, 11:02 PM
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It’s been a few pages back that we’ve discussed the wish list for any new hybrid firmware, but my viewings today reminded me that getting back the HDR picture mode from the original fw should be high on that list.
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post #2346 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 08:33 AM
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I just picked up an ATV 4K yesterday to check out some Olympic coverage (nothing like waiting till the last minute!) as well as the forced DV mode. Truth be told, I've had some family issues lately so have not even had a chance yet to unbox and install my Umax 85, but it will be replacing a 75" LG which does have Dolby Vision that I use daily. Interesting thing is I can't get the ATV to offer a 4K/60 DV mode. It will work 4K/60 HDR, or 4K/30 DV, or 1080p/60 DV. Do you think it's the HDMI cable? Odd I can get 4K/60 HDR but not Dolby Vision unless I go down in frame rate or resolution. Anyone experience that here who has been testing force DV mode? I ordered some HDMI 2.1, 48 gbps cables just in case.
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post #2347 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by snpanago View Post
Spent a bit of time playing with the ATV4K in forced DV as well as 4K SDR Matching dynamic range & frame rate (the preferred mode according to the OP and current posters on the Apple TV thread). I also find that watching all content with the Dolby Vision mode on by turning matching dynamic range off, yields the best images via streaming on my tv. I may not be as sensitive to motion artifacts because I didn’t notice any.

Additionally, I compared viewing an identical purchased movie, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, through Vudu on both the Roku Ultra in HDR and the ATV4K in SDR forced onto Dolby Vision. That settled it for me, the Roku’s HDR using the tv’s Movie mode settings couldn’t come close to the ATV’s forced DV picture in terms of overall detail and color palate. I’m sure a fairer comparison for the Roku Ultra could be done with the original firmware when the specific HDR mode is employed. But, with the CN firmware, I concur with the observations of IBNR.
Buy it in 4k and real Dolby Vision from iTunes.

Martin
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post #2348 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mhconley View Post
Buy it in 4k and real Dolby Vision from iTunes.

Martin
Learned my lesson. I still prefer physical media over streaming, but Vudu had a sale on all 8 Potter films; perhaps iTunes had the same sale.
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post #2349 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 10:25 AM
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Ok I did it ordered from bransmart after some procrastination witch cost me $200 since the price went up from last week!
I hope I?m happy I have the 940e and the mu8000 witch I will return both to Best Buy ..... the 940e is so much better then the 82 inch Sammy I hope the leeco is gonna look somewhat like the Sony!!!!!
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post #2350 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mhconley View Post
Finished my testing. This is what I remember before with the xfinity cable box.

These tests were conducted using Olympics 4K content.

When I set the HDMI input on the TV to Standard the xfinity cable cable box outputs 2160p30 4K UHD SDR when set to Best Available and the picture is quite good.

When I set the HDMI input on the TV to [email protected] Compatible the xfinity cable box outputs 2160p60 4K UHD HDR when set to Best Available but the picture has a weird pink tint. The TV recognizes the picture is HDR but the display is horribly wrong.

I know HDR content from my Xbox One X works with the US firmware. I know DolbyVision content from my Apple TV 4K works with the CN firmware. 4K HDR output from my Comcast box does not work with any firmware.

I am using Belkin Ultra High Speed HDMI cables.

Comments are most welcome...

I'd love firmware for this set where everything just works.

Martin
I have the same pink screen issue. Tech support says it's most likely a problem with the box and they are sending a tech out late this week. I'll try and remember to update as soon as possible after their visit.
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post #2351 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 12:56 PM
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I have the same pink screen issue. Tech support says it's most likely a problem with the box and they are sending a tech out late this week. I'll try and remember to update as soon as possible after their visit.
Please do... I tried two separate xfinity boxes and they both had the same problem when running the US firmware.

I performed some testing on the CN firmware earlier this week. With the xfinity box set to 2160p60 4K UHD and outputting 4K HDR Olympic content I would get either very crushed blacks and no indication the TV was displaying HDR content or the full pink/purple screen and the HDR logo on the TV.

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Last edited by mhconley; 02-25-2018 at 01:03 PM.
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post #2352 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 01:13 PM
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Sorry if this was highlighted in an earlier post, but can you comment why you connect the ATV & Xbox One X directly to TV rather than through your receiver? Is it an older model that doesn't do HDR/DV pass-through? Just curious...
I have a new Pioneer Elite SC-LX801 receiver that I recently updated to the latest firmware. Before updating the firmware I could not get ATV4K to recognize the TV was Dolby Vision capable. I'll have to try with the newer firmware.

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post #2353 of 3152 Old 02-25-2018, 06:56 PM
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Good evening guys! I ordered tv I got a couple of questions
1. How do I get the latest us firmware Incase the update doesn?t work?
2.how do I get the latest CN firmware and can I revert to the us firmware if I want to?
If someone can post links to the download for both or maybe the post number!
Thank you !!!
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post #2354 of 3152 Old 02-26-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mikemav View Post
I just picked up an ATV 4K yesterday to check out some Olympic coverage (nothing like waiting till the last minute!) as well as the forced DV mode. Truth be told, I've had some family issues lately so have not even had a chance yet to unbox and install my Umax 85, but it will be replacing a 75" LG which does have Dolby Vision that I use daily. Interesting thing is I can't get the ATV to offer a 4K/60 DV mode. It will work 4K/60 HDR, or 4K/30 DV, or 1080p/60 DV. Do you think it's the HDMI cable? Odd I can get 4K/60 HDR but not Dolby Vision unless I go down in frame rate or resolution. Anyone experience that here who has been testing force DV mode? I ordered some HDMI 2.1, 48 gbps cables just in case.
It should work with updated hdmi cable. Mine works flawlessly at 4k/60 Dolby Vision . I have monoprice certified cables
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post #2355 of 3152 Old 02-26-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nunii View Post
Good evening guys! I ordered tv I got a couple of questions
1. How do I get the latest us firmware Incase the update doesn?t work?
2.how do I get the latest CN firmware and can I revert to the us firmware if I want to?
If someone can post links to the download for both or maybe the post number!
Thank you !!!
1. yes there is a link for it here, ill try and pull up for you.
2. CN firmware is also available through a link and there are instructions on how to revert back to the US firmware if needed.
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post #2356 of 3152 Old 02-26-2018, 11:55 AM
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It should work with updated hdmi cable. Mine works flawlessly at 4k/60 Dolby Vision . I have monoprice certified cables
I have noticed absolutely no improvement in handshakes or picking up HDR Flags using the new Belkin HDMI 2.1 cables over my previous Monoprice premium certified cables.
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post #2357 of 3152 Old 02-26-2018, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunii View Post
Good evening guys! I ordered tv I got a couple of questions
1. How do I get the latest us firmware Incase the update doesn?t work?
2.how do I get the latest CN firmware and can I revert to the us firmware if I want to?
If someone can post links to the download for both or maybe the post number!
Thank you !!!
1. yes there is a link for it here, ill try and pull up for you.
2. CN firmware is also available through a link and there are instructions on how to revert back to the US firmware if needed.
did you post the link?
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post #2358 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by IBNR View Post
Reading back through the past couple of days' worth of comments it looks like there's already been a lot of feedback on these points but I'll provide mine anyway for the record....

Within the context of the content I tend to watch most often via the sources I have in my system, I can say categorically:

1. I am very satisfied with shadow detail and lack of black crush, and have never felt like the picture was in any way "washed out" in SDR mode (or any other mode for that matter). I cannot say that blacks are "perfect" on this TV because I do not have much experience at all with LED LCD flat panels to compare it to, but I can say that I've never seen anything that makes me think the black/dark detail performance of this TV is in any way deficient. To the contrary, walking through a Best Buy and look over the Wall 'o TVs playing the demo feeds, I've yet to see a set that looks in any way better to my eyes than the uMax.

2. I've never felt like having to share picture settings between HDR10 and SDR (as the CN firmware requires) impairs the PQ on either in any way.

3. I'm sorry but I'm not at all following your questions about picture setting "place holders" and independent settings? On the CN firmware, changing picture mode has no effect on whether the TV is displaying HDR or SDR as those dynamic range settings are entirely content-driven and are made automatically by the TV. And, of course, when the TV is in DV mode, you only have a choice of two picture modes: Dolby Vision Bright and Dolby Vision Dark.

4. I'm now a true believer in leaving the ATV4K in force-DV mode for all content across all apps/sources (at least those I've played with thus far). I really have no idea what dark sorcery the ATV is employing to make the TV switch into DV mode to display content we all just *know* isn't actually encoded with DV metadata, but whatever...I for one welcome our new Apple DV Magic Overlords because the PQ is simply spectacular to my eyes. It's the closest thing to 4K disc quality I've seen from any streaming device yet. The one negative I have noticed is that forcing DV on all content seems to mess with the motion handling by introducing an extra bit of judder that isn't present when the "Match Dynamic Range" setting is set to "On". Toggling the "Match Frame Rate" setting between "On" and "Off" doesn't seem to fix this issue, at least to my eyes. Turning the TV's "Motion" setting to anything other than "Off" fixes this issue completely, but introduces pronounced visible "Soap Opera Effect" for me, even on "Low", and that is something I'm particularly sensitive to and absolutely cannot stand in any degree...I'll take almost any amount of judder over SOE but of course that's just my own preference.

@IBNR - Thanks for all the feedback. Here is some clarification:

1. Are you familiar with specifically what black crush is? E.g. Darker scene and someone has dark brown / black hair and the just looks completely black and you can't make out any of the texture of their hair when really you should be able to. That's what I'm talking about. I felt the US firmware was much better in this regard in SDR mode. Not sure if you remember how it was with the US firmware. To restore the "shadow detail" that was getting the black crush, on the CN firmware, I had to crank up the brightness so much that the picture became washed out. Couldn't find a happy medium. Again this was using the Roku Ultra as the source

2. Good to know - thanks

3. Sorry for the confusion - For place holders (I forget the terminology since my set is still in the shop) but I believe they are called picture modes. Like the moviee, standard, vivid, sports, etc. If you were to re-read my original question but replace the word placeholder with picture mode, does that make more sense now and can you try what I proposed?

4 LOL @ Dark sorcery! Good way to put it. Maybe there is a wizard in side the box?? Just makes me that much more excited to give the ATV a whirl with forced DV. With motion handling I don't know that I saw a difference in it's behavior between SDR, HDR10 and DV but didn't specifically look for it. However, I agree that in general, regardless of content type that even on low it did introduce a bit of SOE. I felt the motion handling was pretty good with it off but in some content I would see judder and wished there was a setting between low and off. I came from a Sony 75x940d and I do have to give it to Sony for tip top motion handling and finer degrees of adjustability. I was able to get it in the sweet spot of being judder free without SOE.
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post #2359 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 11:50 AM
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did you post the link?
@nunii - Here is my post with links to latest CN and latest US firmware: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post55485418

You can go from US to newer US and US to CN via the TV's built in offline updater (put the zip file on USB drive). Online updater doesn't work - LeEco's US servers are down.

However, once you're on CN firmware, the only way we know to get back to US is via the instructions in my post.

Another member here confirmed that steps 1-6 are not necessary and you can start with step 7 to get from CN to US.
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post #2360 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nunii View Post
did you post the link?
@nunii - Here is my post with links to latest CN and latest US firmware: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post55485418

You can go from US to newer US and US to CN via the TV's built in offline updater (put the zip file on USB drive). Online updater doesn't work - LeEco's US servers are down.

However, once you're on CN firmware, the only way we know to get back to US is via the instructions in my post.

Another member here confirmed that steps 1-6 are not necessary and you can start
with step 7 to get from CN to US.
Your link takes me back to this post, do you know the post number?
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post #2361 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunii View Post
did you post the link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunii View Post
Your link takes me back to this post, do you know the post number?
Strange - link works on my computer but not on my phone.

It's post 1865
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post #2362 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 05:58 PM
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did you post the link?
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Originally Posted by nunii View Post
Your link takes me back to this post, do you know the post number?
Strange - link works on my computer but not on my phone.

It's post 1865
Thanks!
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post #2363 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 06:37 PM
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Ok I did it ordered from bransmart after some procrastination witch cost me $200 since the price went up from last week!
I hope I?m happy I have the 940e and the mu8000 witch I will return both to Best Buy ..... the 940e is so much better then the 82 inch Sammy I hope the leeco is gonna look somewhat like the Sony!!!!!
Well it will not come close to the Sony. Not in the same ballpark.

Current Sets: Sony XBR65A9F Master Series, Sony XBR75X940C, Sony XBR75X940D, Samsung UN65KS9800, TCL 65R617
Previous Sets: Samsung Q9FN, Sony XBR65X930D, XBR65X900B, XBR49X830C, Samsung KS8000, KU6500, UN55KS8500, UN49JS8500, JS9000, JU7090, JU6500, JU6400, HU9000, HU7250, PN64F8500, Vizio P65, LG 65EF9500, LG 55EC9300, Hisense 55H8C, TCL P-Series (55P607)
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post #2364 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 07:56 PM
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Ok I did it ordered from bransmart after some procrastination witch cost me $200 since the price went up from last week!
I hope I?m happy I have the 940e and the mu8000 witch I will return both to Best Buy ..... the 940e is so much better then the 82 inch Sammy I hope the leeco is gonna look somewhat like the Sony!!!!!
Well it will not come close to the Sony. Not in the same ballpark.
that sucks! Do you think it will be better then the Samsung?
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post #2365 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 08:07 PM
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did you post the link?
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Originally Posted by nunii View Post
Your link takes me back to this post, do you know the post number?
Strange - link works on my computer but not on my phone.

It's post 1865
sorry to bother last question where can I get the link to the latest cw firmware that lets you get Dolby vision?
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post #2366 of 3152 Old 02-27-2018, 10:59 PM
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Well it will not come close to the Sony. Not in the same ballpark.


What are you basing this statement from... have you seen or owned both?



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post #2367 of 3152 Old 02-28-2018, 03:54 AM
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@IBNR - Thanks for all the feedback. Here is some clarification:

3. Sorry for the confusion - For place holders (I forget the terminology since my set is still in the shop) but I believe they are called picture modes. Like the moviee, standard, vivid, sports, etc. If you were to re-read my original question but replace the word placeholder with picture mode, does that make more sense now and can you try what I proposed?
Ah, I see now. Then the answer is no, the TV (on CN firmware) will not automatically switch to any particular picture mode based whether it’s receiving SDR or HDR10 content. The only time it does anything like that is when it’s receiving DV content, in which case it auto switches to Dolby Vision Bright or Dolby Vision Dark picture mode (whichever one you used last). When the content changes back to anything non-DV, the TV auto switches back to whatever non-DV picture mode was last in use.
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post #2368 of 3152 Old 02-28-2018, 09:54 AM
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Ah, I see now. Then the answer is no, the TV (on CN firmware) will not automatically switch to any particular picture mode based whether it’s receiving SDR or HDR10 content. The only time it does anything like that is when it’s receiving DV content, in which case it auto switches to Dolby Vision Bright or Dolby Vision Dark picture mode (whichever one you used last). When the content changes back to anything non-DV, the TV auto switches back to whatever non-DV picture mode was last in use.
We're on the same page. Thanks for clarifying
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post #2369 of 3152 Old 02-28-2018, 10:18 AM
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What are you basing this statement from... have you seen or owned both?



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I actually had a Sony 75x940D and due to horizontal banding did a warranty claim and it was replaced with a 75x940e since the 75x940d was out of production. Been watching the 75x940e for a few weeks now. I'll put it to you this way - If the Sony was 10" bigger and had 3D I would keep it over the UMAX85. But I wouldn't say it's in a different ball park. We're comparing a Corvette to a Porsche.

Of course my wife wants me to keep the Sony and sell the flickering UMAX for whatever I can get for it. We shall see.

The motion handling is better on the Sony but it's really only if you have content with judder to begin with that this comes into play. The Sony can remove without introducing SOE. Content with judder that is annoying to me, is not that common and usually only shows up in select scenes (slow panning or the words scrolling at the bottom of the evening news). The low motion handling setting on the UMAX gets rid of judder but introduces a bit of SOE.

Sony has a better contrast ratio. If you know how things look when you with higher gamma (like 2.4 or 2.5) which is the same as using a negative gamma # setting on the UMAX85 on the US firmware it has that really deep rich look (opposite of being washed out). The sony can give you this look but still maintains shadow detail and doesn't crush the blacks and the brights are plenty bright. On most sets if you set the gamma like that you'll get the deep / rich look but also lose shadow detail and have a dimmer overall picture. Sony gives best of both worlds. But the UMAX is not that far behind.

Also, the Sony does look sharper but maybe due to being smaller. It has something called reality creation which makes things look very sharp but not that artificial sharpness you get from a standard sharpness control. With it on you can noticeably see the pores on peoples faces better and then they look blurry when you turn it off, but it doesn't add any artifacts or edge enhancement.

I have some vertical banding (light and dark vertical lines) on the UMAX on slow horizontal scrolling scenes with a light background (like a light blue sky). The Sony does not exhibit this whatsoever but again this only shows up in specific circumstances on the UMAX.

In some lower quality content the UMAX shows color banding like most TV's do. The Sony has video processing feature smooth gradation that does a great job of getting rid of this. Again only needed in content that exhibits this in the first place.

Also, the Sony does a better job upscaling / dealing with less than stellar content. If I'm watching Netflix I can't tell when it kicks over from 1080p to 4K. It doesn't have any fake HDR or anything like that but it makes SDR looks so good that when I do watch HDR content the difference actually isn't as noticeable. With more nits the specular highlights in HDR are a noticeably brighter on the Sony too but that doesn't do much for me - how much do we really stare at headlights or shimmers in normal content. Just finished Stranger things on Netflix - season 1 was 4K SDR and season 2 was Dolby Vision and I wasn't like omg - season 2 looks way better.

The Sony is the about as good as it gets on LED as far as I'm concerned and their image processing is arguably the best in the biz so a tough act to follow. The hardware is probably similar but it's Sony's image processing wizardry that pulls it ahead.

Obviously the Sony doesn't have any bugs and I rarely feel the need to mess with picture settings as it handles everything consistently. As we've seen the content and source can produce inconsistencies on the UMAX and I found myself messing with the settings more frequently.

The UMAX still looks very good and is better than a lot of LED's out there. I don't think it's that far behind the Sony. If all the content out there was pristine then the Sony's processing wouldn't be as necessary for lower quality SDR content and the Sony would really only have the advantage with higher nits for HDR specular highlights and no vertical banding.

If you watched them side by side you'd probably prefer the Sony. It's like if you went for a ride in a 400 horsepower car you'd think it was fast as hell and very powerful and be very satisfied. You wouldn't know what you were missing unless you drove a 700 hp right after. Either way they're both faster than most cars out there

For me, and as discerning as I am, it's close enough that for the bigger size and ability to do 3D, I'm leaning toward the UMAX.
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post #2370 of 3152 Old 02-28-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mfish234 View Post
I actually had a Sony 75x940D and due to horizontal banding did a warranty claim and it was replaced with a 75x940e since the 75x940d was out of production. Been watching the 75x940e for a few weeks now. I'll put it to you this way - If the Sony was 10" bigger and had 3D I would keep it over the UMAX85. But I wouldn't say it's in a different ball park. We're comparing a Corvette to a Porsche.



Of course my wife wants me to keep the Sony and sell the flickering UMAX for whatever I can get for it. We shall see.



The motion handling is better on the Sony but it's really only if you have content with judder to begin with that this comes into play. The Sony can remove without introducing SOE. Content with judder that is annoying to me, is not that common and usually only shows up in select scenes (slow panning or the words scrolling at the bottom of the evening news). The low motion handling setting on the UMAX gets rid of judder but introduces a bit of SOE.



Sony has a better contrast ratio. If you know how things look when you with higher gamma (like 2.4 or 2.5) which is the same as using a negative gamma # setting on the UMAX85 on the US firmware it has that really deep rich look (opposite of being washed out). The sony can give you this look but still maintains shadow detail and doesn't crush the blacks and the brights are plenty bright. On most sets if you set the gamma like that you'll get the deep / rich look but also lose shadow detail and have a dimmer overall picture. Sony gives best of both worlds. But the UMAX is not that far behind.



Also, the Sony does look sharper but maybe due to being smaller. It has something called reality creation which makes things look very sharp but not that artificial sharpness you get from a standard sharpness control. With it on you can noticeably see the pores on peoples faces better and then they look blurry when you turn it off, but it doesn't add any artifacts or edge enhancement.



I have some vertical banding (light and dark vertical lines) on the UMAX on slow horizontal scrolling scenes with a light background (like a light blue sky). The Sony does not exhibit this whatsoever but again this only shows up in specific circumstances on the UMAX.



In some lower quality content the UMAX shows color banding like most TV's do. The Sony has video processing feature smooth gradation that does a great job of getting rid of this. Again only needed in content that exhibits this in the first place.



Also, the Sony does a better job upscaling / dealing with less than stellar content. If I'm watching Netflix I can't tell when it kicks over from 1080p to 4K. It doesn't have any fake HDR or anything like that but it makes SDR looks so good that when I do watch HDR content the difference actually isn't as noticeable. With more nits the specular highlights in HDR are a noticeably brighter on the Sony too but that doesn't do much for me - how much do we really stare at headlights or shimmers in normal content. Just finished Stranger things on Netflix - season 1 was 4K SDR and season 2 was Dolby Vision and I wasn't like omg - season 2 looks way better.



The Sony is the about as good as it gets on LED as far as I'm concerned and their image processing is arguably the best in the biz so a tough act to follow. The hardware is probably similar but it's Sony's image processing wizardry that pulls it ahead.



Obviously the Sony doesn't have any bugs and I rarely feel the need to mess with picture settings as it handles everything consistently. As we've seen the content and source can produce inconsistencies on the UMAX and I found myself messing with the settings more frequently.



The UMAX still looks very good and is better than a lot of LED's out there. I don't think it's that far behind the Sony. If all the content out there was pristine then the Sony's processing wouldn't be as necessary for lower quality SDR content and the Sony would really only have the advantage with higher nits for HDR specular highlights and no vertical banding.



If you watched them side by side you'd probably prefer the Sony. It's like if you went for a ride in a 400 horsepower car you'd think it was fast as hell and very powerful and be very satisfied. You wouldn't know what you were missing unless you drove a 700 hp right after. Either way they're both faster than most cars out there



For me, and as discerning as I am, it's close enough that for the bigger size and ability to do 3D, I'm leaning toward the UMAX.


I went from 75x940d, not E, but that model had such a smearing issue with it’s black-on-white motion it was an instant deal breaker.
If you watched a cartoon like Rick and Morty, the eyeballs would track across the screen and leave a trail behind them.
So, beautiful or not (and the Sony was great on other content) the Umax is so much better. I also get zero cross talk or ghosting with 3D Umax images, the Sony was horrible.


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