**OFFICIAL** 2017 SONY XBR-X930E (Owner's Thread)(No Price Talk) - Page 327 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9781 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I have zero issues like this but I don’t use IP control with my 930E and Harmony Elite, I use IR.


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Ditto. Harmony Home Companion in my case.
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post #9782 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
For me it is because in two of my systems, the Hub is located outside of the line of sight from the TVs and I don't need to run the IR extender out in front of the TV in order to get the commands there.



In my main room, the IR blast isn't strong enough to bounce around the room back to the bottom center of the TV. The hub is located in my AV rack on the right.





Then in my home office (where the 930E is), my AV gear and the Hub is located in a closet off to the left side with the TV above my workstation.


Damn! You have a wondeful looking setup..... setup's. Thats impressive.
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post #9783 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:21 PM
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Thanks atbear, appreciate your help and feedback. And what are some of the reasons, again, for IP Control and controlling the TV through the network? Apologies for the probably dumb question; I may have read about it, but don't recall.

Gotta scoot out to an Ace Hardware & do a bit of house maintenance but back later. Thanks again.
I use the Hub because all of my components are inside a cabinet. I use IP Control so I don't have to point the remote at the TV (or even be in the same room as the TV) to control it. It's just a convenience. I could use IR and be 95% happy.
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post #9784 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
For me it is because in two of my systems, the Hub is located outside of the line of sight from the TVs and I don't need to run the IR extender out in front of the TV in order to get the commands there.
In my main room, the IR blast isn't strong enough to bounce around the room back to the bottom center of the TV. The hub is located in my AV rack on the right.
Then in my home office (where the 930E is), my AV gear and the Hub is located in a closet off to the left side with the TV above my workstation
Thanks mutelight. Those examples help a lot; I think I'm followin' ya. But is IP Control the same as RF? Btw, very cool pics of your systems!
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They're using IP control. Once I disentagled myself from that through the TV soon after I got the set everything has worked fine.
So some prefer to use IP Control. And others, yourself included, don't prefer to use IP. Is that it? Is that what you're telling me ova' heer?
If 'IP Control' is RF (if it is), seems like it would be more stable than IR, but from reading these forums that doesn't appear to be the case.
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post #9785 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WinMod21 View Post
Thanks mutelight. Those examples help a lot; I think I'm followin' ya. But is IP Control the same as RF? Btw, very cool pics of your systems!



So some prefer to use IP Control. And others, yourself included, don't prefer to use IP. Is that it? Is that what you're telling me ova' heer?

If 'IP Control' is RF (if it is), seems like it would be more stable than IR, but from reading these forums that doesn't appear to be the case.
Yeah, there's IR, RF (for remotes like mine that also do IR with extenders) and Sony's use of IP control. Unless you have special circumstances that minimize or interfere with the use of the first 2 the use of the 3rd isnt necessary IMO.
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post #9786 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by atbear View Post
I use the Hub because all of my components are inside a cabinet. I use IP Control so I don't have to point the remote at the TV (or even be in the same room as the TV) to control it. It's just a convenience. I could use IR and be 95% happy.
Ahhh, okay. So sounds like IP Control is another term for RF? I'm followin' ya now, I think. Thanks again for explaining!
And which are you using again atbear, the Companion or the Elite?
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post #9787 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Yeah, there's IR, RF (for remotes like mine that also do IR with extenders) and Sony's use of IP control. Unless you have special circumstances that minimize or interfere with the use of the first 2 the use of the 3rd isnt necessary IMO.
So IP Control is not the same as RF? Alright, are you three trying to intentionally confuse me on this IR/RF/IP stuff...or what!?

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post #9788 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WinMod21 View Post
So IP Control is not the same as RF?
Correct. One is radio frequency and the other is over your LAN. RF allows for no line of site control as opposed to IR. We used both types in the car business for car entertainment systems. 12 and 18 inch monitors with remotes and headphones etc..
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post #9789 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Correct. One is radio frequency and the other is over your LAN. RF allows for no line of site control as opposed to IR. We used both types in the car business for car entertainment systems. 12 and 18 inch monitors with remotes and headphones etc..
Ahhhhh, okay, thanks. So IP Control is hard-wired via LAN from Hub to TV? But IP doesn't have to be from computer to > Hub > TV, with regards to Harmony IP Control, does it?

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post #9790 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:51 PM
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Ahhhhh, okay, thanks. But IP Control is hard-wired via LAN from Hub to TV?
That or WiFi. It's just a protocol for electronics that share the same network.
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post #9791 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 06:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
That or WiFi. It's just a protocol for electronics that share the same network.
Oh, alright, okay. So IP Control is the same protocol for or as the WiFi connection that our Sonys' run when connected to our home networks! I should know that; maybe I did but forgot it. Sheeeeeez! Hope I'm not gettin' some-timers or loosing my mind already! Thanks again to all here for trying to help me understand the different Harmony models and their various comm features.

Earlier today I was planning on returning the two Harmony 700's and getting just one Harmony Companion. But now @mdavej and this BestBuy reviewer have persuaded me against the Companion. So now it's looking like we should either keep the 700's...or fork over the big cash for the Elite.

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post #9792 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by atbear View Post
I use the Hub because all of my components are inside a cabinet. I use IP Control so I don't have to point the remote at the TV (or even be in the same room as the TV) to control it. It's just a convenience. I could use IR and be 95% happy.


I don’t have to point my Harmony at anything either. Harmony hub-based remotes transmit RF to the hub which then sends it in whatever format is needed (IR, Bluetooth, IP, etc). RF also goes through cabinet doors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #9793 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by atbear View Post
I use the Hub because all of my components are inside a cabinet. I use IP Control so I don't have to point the remote at the TV (or even be in the same room as the TV) to control it. It's just a convenience. I could use IR and be 95% happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Correct. One is radio frequency and the other is over your LAN. RF allows for no line of site control as opposed to IR. We used both types in the car business for car entertainment systems. 12 and 18 inch monitors with remotes and headphones etc..
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
That or WiFi. It's just a protocol for electronics that share the same network.
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I don’t have to point my Harmony at anything either. Harmony hub-based remotes transmit RF to the hub which then sends it in whatever format is needed (IR, Bluetooth, IP, etc). RF also goes through cabinet doors.
Thanks again to you all. Things are much clearer to me now, Harmony-wise. You might say . . .I've finally reached a harmonically balanced perspective , thanks be to you all of you.
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post #9794 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:37 PM
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Anybody in NYC get their update yet? Still waiting here in Brooklyn.
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post #9795 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I don’t have to point my Harmony at anything either. Harmony hub-based remotes transmit RF to the hub which then sends it in whatever format is needed (IR, Bluetooth, IP, etc). RF also goes through cabinet doors.


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That's what I'm saying. If I use IR, I have to point my remote at the TV. If I use IP Control, I don't have to point my remote at the TV. Are you saying something different?

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post #9796 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:50 PM
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Beautiful setup! What are you using for bias lighting in the first picture?
I am using Philips Hue light strips and thank you!

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Damn! You have a wondeful looking setup..... setup's. Thats impressive.
Very kind, thank you!

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Originally Posted by WinMod21 View Post
Thanks mutelight. Those examples help a lot; I think I'm followin' ya. But is IP Control the same as RF? Btw, very cool pics of your systems!

So some prefer to use IP Control. And others, yourself included, don't prefer to use IP. Is that it? Is that what you're telling me ova' heer?
If 'IP Control' is RF (if it is), seems like it would be more stable than IR, but from reading these forums that doesn't appear to be the case.
IP control and RF control can be interchangeable in the sense that at one point a Harmony Hub enabled remote is going to be RF over WiFi and possibly to the TV via WiFi but it is literally over IP.

Controlling a Sony TV via IP is exactly that, it means the commands are sent via the network. The only RF aspect is the Harmony remote talking to the hub, both via RF/WiFi and then the TV can be wired via ethernet or connected via WiFi yet again being more RF.

Personally, after all TVs were updated, I paired them again with new codes, starting fresh and they are controlled via IP cleanly through every commend.

I did remove the "Sony TV" from all my remotes and repair all activities but since then it has been nice and reliable.
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post #9797 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:51 PM
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Thanks again to you all. Things are much clearer to me now, Harmony-wise. You might say . . .I've finally reached a harmonically balanced perspective , thanks be to you all of you.
Just to close the circle... The Hub-based remotes transmit their signals to the Hub using RF, which can travel through cabinets / don't need to be line-of-sight. SOME Hub-based remotes also have IR emitters on them (like my 950) while some do not (like my Smart Control). From that point, you can transmit to your various components in a few ways: 1. IR from the remote (if equipped), IR from the IR blasters, and IR from the Hub itself. IR needs to be line-of-sight. 2. IP Control from the Hub through WiFi (the WiFi connects to your router, which then transmits those IP Control signals to the TV directly either through WiFi or through ethernet). Like RF, IP Control does not need to be line-of-sight. 3. Various other ways, like Bluetooth, etc. Hope this helps.
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post #9798 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Personally, after all TVs were updated, I paired them again with new codes, starting fresh and they are controlled via IP cleanly through every commend.

I did remove the "Sony TV" from all my remotes and repair all activities but since then it has been nice and reliable.
Glad to hear yours is working. Mine is working as well, except for shutdown... which works only about 50% of the time through IP Control. Everything else works 100% of the time.

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post #9799 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 08:01 PM
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That's what I'm saying. If I use IR, I have to point my remote at the TV. If I use IP Control, I don't have to point my remote at the TV. Are you saying something different?


I’m saying that if you have a Harmony hub based remote you don’t have to point it at the TV. It sends an RF signal to the hub which then can convert it to IR or IP or, I think, even Bluetooth...depending on what you need. I have it covert to IR because I’ve always had little issues with IP.


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post #9800 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I’m saying that if you have a Harmony hub based remote you don’t have to point it at the TV. It sends an RF signal to the hub which then can convert it to IR or IP or, I think, even Bluetooth...depending on what you need. I have it covert to IR because I’ve always had little issues with IP.


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Yep, we're saying the same thing. IR needs line-of-sight and IP Control does not. I think where the confusion is coming in is that my Hub is inside a cabinet which means the Hub-emitted IR won't reach my TV (while my remote-emitted IR will).
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Anybody in NYC get their update yet? Still waiting here in Brooklyn.
Just do the USB update
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post #9802 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 10:55 PM
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Yep, we're saying the same thing. IR needs line-of-sight and IP Control does not. I think where the confusion is coming in is that my Hub is inside a cabinet which means the Hub-emitted IR won't reach my TV (while my remote-emitted IR will).
IR for the Harmony remote does not necessarily need to be line of sight plus I can literally sit on my HC remote or leave the room and still control all activities and button controls. You're overselling IP control in this regard.

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post #9803 of 10838 Old 12-19-2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I’m saying that if you have a Harmony hub based remote you don’t have to point it at the TV. It sends an RF signal to the hub which then can convert it to IR or IP or, I think, even Bluetooth...depending on what you need. I have it covert to IR because I’ve always had little issues with IP.


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Yup. All correct. For those who like and use IP control that's fine but these are not reasons to use it over just using the Hub and the RF remote. I personally don't use or care for the other valid reasons for IP control so I leave this feature off.
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post #9804 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 08:12 AM
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**OFFICIAL** 2017 SONY XBR-X930E (Owner's Thread)(No Price Talk)

Speaking of Harmony Hub, they released a firmware update last week which broke some devices that weren’t officially supported anyway.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...y-hub-systems/

This doesn’t affect controlling the TV or the TV’s Harmony skill app.
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post #9805 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 09:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
IP control and RF control can be interchangeable in the sense that at one point a Harmony Hub enabled remote is going to be RF over WiFi and possibly to the TV via WiFi but it is literally over IP.
Controlling a Sony TV via IP is exactly that, it means the commands are sent via the network. The only RF aspect is the Harmony remote talking to the hub, both via RF/WiFi and then the TV can be wired via ethernet or connected via WiFi yet again being more RF.
Personally, after all TVs were updated, I paired them again with new codes, starting fresh and they are controlled via IP cleanly through every commend. I did remove the "Sony TV" from all my remotes and repair all activities but since then it has been nice and reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atbear View Post
Just to close the circle... The Hub-based remotes transmit their signals to the Hub using RF, which can travel through cabinets / don't need to be line-of-sight. SOME Hub-based remotes also have IR emitters on them (like my 950) while some do not (like my Smart Control). From that point, you can transmit to your various components in a few ways: 1. IR from the remote (if equipped), IR from the IR blasters, and IR from the Hub itself. IR needs to be line-of-sight. 2. IP Control from the Hub through WiFi (the WiFi connects to your router, which then transmits those IP Control signals to the TV directly either through WiFi or through ethernet). Like RF, IP Control does not need to be line-of-sight. 3. Various other ways, like Bluetooth, etc. Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I’m saying that if you have a Harmony hub based remote you don’t have to point it at the TV. It sends an RF signal to the hub which then can convert it to IR or IP or, I think, even Bluetooth...depending on what you need. I have it covert to IR because I’ve always had little issues with IP.
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Yup. All correct. For those who like and use IP control that's fine but these are not reasons to use it over just using the Hub and the RF remote. I personally don't use or care for the other valid reasons for IP control so I leave this feature off.
Thanks again to all of you! The Harmony IR/RF/IP stuff is much clearer to me now; I'm understanding, mostly, I think.. ..thanks to all of you for your help and explanations. Realizing now I shouldn't-a, hadn't-a, oughtn't-a R-U-N-N-O-F-T out the other night and bought the 700. As it seems the Harmony Hub based remotes— operate more the way we'd prefer to have things set-up.
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post #9806 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 09:58 AM
 
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IR for the Harmony remote does not necessarily need to be line of sight plus I can literally sit on my HC remote or leave the room and still control all activities and button controls. You're overselling IP control in this regard.
Hmmm. Would you mind expanding a little bit more on that, Madmax? Are you implying that you "can literally sit on" your remote and then "control all activities and button controls" through or with your buttocks!? Just when I thought I was startin to kinda understand the Harmony comm protocols . . you throw in that new twist!

Last edited by WinMod21; 12-20-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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post #9807 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WinMod21 View Post
Hmmm. Would you mind expanding a little bit more on that, Madmax? Are you implying that you "can literally sit on" your remote and then "control all activities and button controls" through or with your buttocks!? Just when I thought I was startin to kinda understand the Harmony comm protocols . . you throw in that new twist!
IR has to be line-of-sight. If IR works and isn't line-of-sight, it's because the IR signal being emitted is very strong and is bouncing off walls in order to reach the IR sensor. It can't pass through cabinets, which is why I can't use the Hub as my IR emitter for the TV (my Hub is inside a cabinet). If my Hub were out in the open, it would likely send out a strong enough IR signal to reach the TV no problem.

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post #9808 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Yup. All correct. For those who like and use IP control that's fine but these are not reasons to use it over just using the Hub and the RF remote. I personally don't use or care for the other valid reasons for IP control so I leave this feature off.
If your Hub is in a cabinet (like mine) you can't use it as the IR emitter (for the TV). It is controlling my AVR, Apple TV 4K, SHIELD TV, Blu-Ray player, etc. from inside the cabinet just fine.

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post #9809 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WinMod21 View Post
Hmmm. Would you mind expanding a little bit more on that, Madmax? Are you implying that you "can literally sit on" your remote and then "control all activities and button controls" through or with your buttocks!? Just when I thought I was startin to kinda understand the Harmony comm protocols . . you throw in that new twist!
Thats exactly what i did, lol. Dont judge me ! The remote for the Companion is RF to the Hub not IR so no line of sight necessary. That's what msnow was trying to get across earlier. The Hub transfers that to IR, Bluetooth and even IP in certain cases if properly setup. IR also can reflect off of walls. Generic point and shoot remotes like the Sony remote give IR a bad name because they are built down to a spec not up like a Harmony. IP has its place in certain setups but it's definitely not a must have for most Harmony users.
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post #9810 of 10838 Old 12-20-2018, 01:39 PM
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If your Hub is in a cabinet (like mine) you can't use it as the IR emitter (for the TV). It is controlling my AVR, Apple TV 4K, SHIELD TV, Blu-Ray player, etc. from inside the cabinet just fine.
That's what the IR extenders are for but I understand not all setups can make use of them the way Harmony recommends. Both serve their purpose with different setups. I'd rather have IP as an option than not because options are good for us as consumers so I'm not anti IP. Just pro Harmony. In the end we are probably more in agreement than not on this topic so I'll move on to things more Sony X930E related like I just bought an Xrite i1 Display Pro for Christmas and balanced the grayscale for this TV and man did it make a difference in the overall picture quality. Bit of a learning curve using HCFR calibration software but the lightbulb finally came on and I'm happy with the results. Great TV and now an even greater picture. On most all of these sets the D65 white point is going to be off meaning the primary and secondary colors are also going to be a bit off. Lining them all up in relation to D65 has really dialed in the picture quality. I also see a bit less blooming than before but that might just be a placebo effect. I watched the original Die Hard on UHD blu ray the other night and it looked amazing. Even better than when I originally saw it in theaters in 1988 and yes I think Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Anyway just sharing. Happy Holidays !
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Last edited by Madmax67; 12-20-2018 at 11:23 PM.
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