**OFFICIAL** 2017 SONY XBR-X930E (Owner's Thread)(No Price Talk) - Page 352 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10531 of 10804 Old 05-08-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ForecastV View Post
The x930e does tone map HDR. The “active HDR” they are discussing is actually about tone mapping.
All 4K TV's tone map HDR due to PQ EOTF. That's not what they are talking about in that writeup. They are saying that the X1 Extreme chip operates the same way as LG's dynamic tone mapping and there's zero evidence for that other than a guy who owns an electronics store saying it does. Actually because the X930 can easily hit HDR's 1000 nits peak brightness(1540cd/m2 in a 10% window) there is no need for DTM or tone mapping of any kind unless the content is mastered at 4000 nits(DV). My OPPO 203 offers dynamic tone mapping as a setting similar to the setting on the LG OLED's. There is no such setting on the Sony X930E. If they are only talking about basic tone mapping then that's a snooze fest to me because
and others have already explained that to death by now so that's old news.

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post #10532 of 10804 Old 05-08-2019, 09:56 PM
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If they are only talking about basic tone mapping then that's a snooze fest to me because Vincent Teoh and others have already explained that to death by now so that's old news.

Well, this AV Nirvana thread is from 2017 after all.
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post #10533 of 10804 Old 05-10-2019, 07:25 AM
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So I decided to update to the latest software via USB. It took around 15 to 20 minutes, but when it was done I didn’t get the pop up telling me to remove the USB for a good 5 minutes or so after the TV booted into the home screen. The way I got it to show up was to go to my cable box input and back to the home screen. Is that normal?
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post #10534 of 10804 Old 05-10-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Morac View Post
So I decided to update to the latest software via USB. It took around 15 to 20 minutes, but when it was done I didn’t get the pop up telling me to remove the USB for a good 5 minutes or so after the TV booted into the home screen. The way I got it to show up was to go to my cable box input and back to the home screen. Is that normal?
Thats what mine did too.

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post #10535 of 10804 Old 05-10-2019, 09:43 AM
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I was hoping the update would fix the issue with the TV randomly turning my Onkyo AV receiver on and off while the TV is in standby, but no such luck.
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post #10536 of 10804 Old 05-10-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForecastV View Post
Well, this AV Nirvana thread is from 2017 after all.
HDR and tone mapping has been around a lot longer than 2 years. Fact is there is no Sony sourced official or white paper verifying this claim other than a third party who used to work with Hitachi I believe decades ago saying it's a fact. Actual facts have corroboration meaning more than just one person saying it. This is AV Science. Not AV let me paste this link to another home theater site where someone just says something on the internet. LG OLED's offer this dynamic tone mapping because their tech cannot hit HDR10's peak brightness standards for LCD's. The X930E on the other hand can.
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post #10537 of 10804 Old 05-10-2019, 04:16 PM
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Since upgrading from 6.5805 to 6.5850, I’ve noticed dropped frames and video playback speed problems when casting YouTube to the TV. This wasn’t happening prior to that.

Is anyone else having this problem?
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post #10538 of 10804 Old 05-12-2019, 06:08 AM
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I use the YouTube app on my 930E and 900E with no problems.
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post #10539 of 10804 Old 05-12-2019, 09:18 AM
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Odd it seems to have been one video, though it plays back fine on other devices.

I’m disappointed that 5850 didn’t fix the issues I had with my receiver over ARC. I didn’t have no audio, but frequently the TV would “switch” the audio to the TV because it didn’t think an audio receiver was connected. The result was that I’ll get audio from both the TV and receiver until I switch the audio setting back to external on the TV.

Another issue I saw today was that I casted YouTube to the TV while it was off, which turned it on. Normally it would then have my receiver switch to the ARC TV input, but it didn’t so I heard my cable box audio still.
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post #10540 of 10804 Old 05-13-2019, 06:11 AM
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Hi All,
I have a strange issue... It seems that after installing the latest x930e update, my TV randomly turns on...

It only started after updating. It never happened before and there have been no other changes/updates to any other equipment.

Has anyone come across this?

I already turned off the 'auto on' feature for BraviaSync/HDMI.

I'm not sure what is triggering it to turn on.
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post #10541 of 10804 Old 05-13-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Thank you, that was the assurance I needed to just go for it. I unplugged it for a few minutes, plugged back in, powered up and... it appears to be 100% functional.

I have to admit I was a little concerned there.

- Jason

Mine did the same thing. Actually, it did it a couple of times but since has quit and started booting normally.
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post #10542 of 10804 Old 05-18-2019, 05:01 AM
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Going to be wall mounting my 55X930E to the wall using a fixed mount that will have the TV just 11mm, or less than a half inch from the wall. I don't see a minimum recommended distance in the user guide. Will this be okay? Thanks in advance.
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post #10543 of 10804 Old 05-19-2019, 11:13 AM
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Help with ARC.


Can someone tell me the various settings that allow the X930E to send audio out the HDMI ARC?


I could never get it working with my Denon X2200W receiver.
I now have an HDFury Diva connected to my system and it is supposed to extract the ARC audio and re-route it to an HDMI output that connects to any HDMI input on the Denon.


I have the HDFury setup (as they recommend) as CEC Enabled and the device type as Audio Processor (0x05).


Thanks
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post #10544 of 10804 Old 05-19-2019, 12:35 PM
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FYI, the Vudu android app was updated on May 8th or 9th and we have DD+ back, Yay!

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post #10545 of 10804 Old 05-19-2019, 02:33 PM
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I think I have all the external and internal literature related to the X930E. I can't find anything about distance from the wall in relationship to thermal concerns. Above, below and the sides YES, but nothing on the rear. I'm thinking that as long as it's 1/2 inch or more and you have good clearance above you're ok!

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Originally Posted by BSath23 View Post
Going to be wall mounting my 55X930E to the wall using a fixed mount that will have the TV just 11mm, or less than a half inch from the wall. I don't see a minimum recommended distance in the user guide. Will this be okay? Thanks in advance.
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post #10546 of 10804 Old 05-19-2019, 06:35 PM
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I think I have all the external and internal literature related to the X930E. I can't find anything about distance from the wall in relationship to thermal concerns. Above, below and the sides YES, but nothing on the rear. I'm thinking that as long as it's 1/2 inch or more and you have good clearance above you're ok!

Leon McKee
And did anyone put the back plate back on after wiring up this TV? i left it off for better cooling/ air circulation.

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post #10547 of 10804 Old 05-19-2019, 08:26 PM
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I left mine off because it's a pain dealing with the cables otherwise :-) However, I don't think this TV's thermal design power would require the back panels. Does not appear to me that they play a role in relation to the thermal air flow.

Leon McKee

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And did anyone put the back plate back on after wiring up this TV? i left it off for better cooling/ air circulation.

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post #10548 of 10804 Old 05-19-2019, 09:00 PM
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**OFFICIAL** 2017 SONY XBR-X930E (Owner's Thread)(No Price Talk)

Is there an easy way to switch Harmony from IP to IR without deleting the TV from the Harmony setup?

I had set my TV up for IP control and after updating to Oreo back in November I had a problem where frequently the Harmony wouldn’t turn the TV on or off unless I tried twice. At some point this problem went away (I think after I was having network/Internet issues). I don’t know if it switched to IR mode or not, but I do know that commands when the TV was on were sent over IP since I tested blocking the IR blaster. It’s possible the power command was sent via IR. Like I mentioned I don’t know how it got into this state.

I normally use Alexa or the remote to power the TV on and off, but yesterday and needed to use the Harmony app to switch inputs on the TV. When attempting to do so the app prompted me to enter the code displayed on the TV. There was no code so I killed the app. At this point I could still control the TV but I have no idea how that was being done. I then went to the advanced remote access network settings for the TV and deleted the Harmony from there. The next time I tried to use the Harmony app again I got the same question about the code and this time one appeared on the TV so I entered it and re-paired the app to the TV.

Since doing so, the TV is frequently not turning on or off when I either ask Alexa to do so or use my Harmony remote.

Any idea how to switch back?

Last edited by Morac; 05-19-2019 at 10:01 PM.
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post #10549 of 10804 Old 05-22-2019, 06:30 AM
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Is there an easy way to switch Harmony from IP to IR without deleting the TV from the Harmony setup?
I did this by deleting the TV then adding it manually by make/model. It's not too bad to then add it back to the activities that need it again.
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post #10550 of 10804 Old 05-22-2019, 06:31 AM
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Firmware version 6.6510 has just been released in the UK/EU

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/s...loads/00016046

Seems like:

V6.5830 (initial oreo, pulled due to arc)
V6.5850 (US only fix for ARC, didn't fix internal player issues and still some ARC bugs)
V6.6510 (EU - If the version numbers are anything to go by looks like they have been busy...)
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Last edited by genoma; 05-22-2019 at 07:14 AM. Reason: Small update to region
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post #10551 of 10804 Old 05-22-2019, 10:22 AM
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**OFFICIAL** 2017 SONY XBR-X930E (Owner's Thread)(No Price Talk)

The initial Oreo release was 6.5810 (or 5815) that was released in November of last year.

According to this GIT page I follow who’s owner logs bugs in the TV software, 6510 fixes the issue where YouTube and Google Play Movies and TV (basically any VP9.2 codec) doesn’t properly switch to HDR.

https://github.com/CiNcH83/bravia_atv2/issues/2

I don’t think that was fixed in 5850, so Europe got a newer version that the US.

See also https://www.reddit.com/r/bravia/comm...term=control_1
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post #10552 of 10804 Old 05-22-2019, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
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The initial Oreo release was 6.5810 (or 5815) that was released in November of last year.

According to this GIT page I follow who’s owner logs bugs in the TV software, 6510 fixes the issue where YouTube and Google Play Movies and TV (basically any VP9.2 codec) doesn’t properly switch to HDR.

https://github.com/CiNcH83/bravia_atv2/issues/2

I don’t think that was fixed in 5850, so Europe got a newer version that the US.

See also https://www.reddit.com/r/bravia/comm...term=control_1

Very interesting. I wonder when North America will receive these fixes.
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post #10553 of 10804 Old 05-22-2019, 04:38 PM
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Has anyone managed to get 5.1 audio from the FandangoNow Android TV app? The help page says it’s supported, but everything I play is in 2.0 stereo. Other apps like Vudu and Netflix are 5.1 so it’s not my setup.
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post #10554 of 10804 Old 05-23-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
HDR and tone mapping has been around a lot longer than 2 years. Fact is there is no Sony sourced official or white paper verifying this claim other than a third party who used to work with Hitachi I believe decades ago saying it's a fact. Actual facts have corroboration meaning more than just one person saying it. This is AV Science. Not AV let me paste this link to another home theater site where someone just says something on the internet. LG OLED's offer this dynamic tone mapping because their tech cannot hit HDR10's peak brightness standards for LCD's. The X930E on the other hand can.

I think this conversation is very interesting. I just stumbled upon this old AVSforum review of the A1E. They too mention that the X1 Extreme processor is ignoring HDR10’s metadata (MaxCLL and MaxFALL) and is instead using its own system to dynamically generate metadata.

I’m wondering if other people here also noticed similar behaviors with their X1 Extreme set that could corroborate or dismiss these claims. I quoted the relevant parts of the article below:

https://www.avsforum.com/sony-xbr-65...led-tv-review/

Quote:
Of course, Sony applies its own technology to the panel. Perhaps most important is the company’s X1 Extreme video processor. This powerhouse chip serves three main functions: providing a dual database for noise reduction and 4K upscaling, Super Bit Mapping that smooths gradations by reproducing the equivalent of 14 bits from an 8-bit source, and object-based HDR remastering that identifies individual objects in the image. The same processor is found in Sony’s Z9D, X940E, and X930E UHD HDR-capable LCD TVs.
Quote:
In the A1E and Sony’s other premium TVs, the company claims to ignore HDR10’s metadata (MaxCLL and MaxFALL), which Sony says are often incorrect or even missing altogether. Instead, the TV measures the average and peak-highlight brightness of each frame. This is possible because the PQ EOTF (electro-optical transfer function) encodes absolute brightness values, and the X1 Extreme processor is powerful enough to do it in real time. In essence, the TV generates its own dynamic metadata and adjusts its tone mapping accordingly.

Some observers have disputed that Sony actually generates its own dynamic metadata, citing clipping in some scenes from movies mastered at a peak brightness of 4000 nits. For example, at 1:09:46 in Batman v Superman, the white creases in Ben Affleck’s shirt are clipped, as is the sun at 18:53 in Pan. In the case of the sun in the Pan clip, it’s only a tiny portion of the screen, but Ben Affleck’s shirt in the BvS clip occupies a much larger portion of the screen, and it goes in and out of clipping, which looks kinda weird.

When I asked Sony about this, I was told that, in order to display all the detail in these extreme highlights, the brightness of the rest of the image would have to be lowered significantly. Sony believes that maintaining the brightness and color volume of the majority of the scene is more important than preserving a bit of detail in super-bright highlights.

This is a conscious decision the company made when programming the X1 Extreme, and I agree with that decision in general. However, I would have made the other choice in the Batman v Superman example. (On the other hand, maybe not; everything around Affleck in that shot is very dark, and it would be much darker—perhaps to the point of invisibility—if the tone mapping didn’t clip the white shirt.) Of course, the processor is programmed to do it one way and not the other. The X1 Extreme is very powerful, but it cannot make judgement calls.

Last edited by ForecastV; 05-23-2019 at 09:21 AM.
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post #10555 of 10804 Old 05-23-2019, 11:41 AM
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I think this conversation is very interesting. I just stumbled upon this old AVSforum review of the A1E. They too mention that the X1 Extreme processor is ignoring HDR10’s metadata (MaxCLL and MaxFALL) and is instead using its own system to dynamically generate metadata.

I’m wondering if other people here also noticed similar behaviors with their X1 Extreme set that could corroborate or dismiss these claims. I quoted the relevant parts of the article below:

https://www.avsforum.com/sony-xbr-65...led-tv-review/
I honestly cannot tell a difference between HDR10 and DV and while I do not think they product equal results i do think Sony's HDR10 implementation is closer to DV than DR10.

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post #10556 of 10804 Old 05-23-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ForecastV View Post
I think this conversation is very interesting. I just stumbled upon this old AVSforum review of the A1E. They too mention that the X1 Extreme processor is ignoring HDR10’s metadata (MaxCLL and MaxFALL) and is instead using its own system to dynamically generate metadata.



I’m wondering if other people here also noticed similar behaviors with their X1 Extreme set that could corroborate or dismiss these claims. I quoted the relevant parts of the article below:



https://www.avsforum.com/sony-xbr-65...led-tv-review/
That's the A1E OLED they are referring to blowing out the specular highlights in that scene in BVS not the X930E and they are lowering the brightness because the emissive display tech dictates aggresive tone mapping at around 700 nits for HDR. Here's Sony's official representation of what object based HDR remaster actually does and if this is actually frame by frame HDR grading then they did a super piss poor job of explaining/selling it as such in this breakdown IMHO :

With Object-based HDR remaster (1), the color in individual objects on screen is analyzed and the contrast adjusted, unlike most TVs where contrast is only adjusted along one black-to-white contrast curve (2). Because objects are remastered individually,this TV can reproduce greater depth, textures, and more real pictures .

The thing to ask ourselves as consumers is if the X1 chip is actually capable of doing what some are saying then why wasn't Sony more aggressive with its ad campaign regarding this ability? That's professional malpractice then for whomever wrote the above description of it's function.











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post #10557 of 10804 Old 05-23-2019, 02:12 PM
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I honestly cannot tell a difference between HDR10 and DV and while I do not think they product equal results i do think Sony's HDR10 implementation is closer to DV than DR10.
I see a difference but it's very slight. I chalk that up more to the sets high peak brightness which reduces the need for aggressive tone mapping.

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So I *finally* updated my 55" 930E to v6.5850 today and after looking closely at the screen (something I don't do all that often) I found I had a single continuous line of green vertical pixels a little right off of dead center. Has anyone found a software solution to this, or am I going to have to make use of the extended warranty/warranties I have on the set to get it permanently fixed?

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post #10559 of 10804 Old 05-23-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
That's the A1E OLED they are referring to blowing out the specular highlights in that scene in BVS not the X930E and they are lowering the brightness because the emissive display tech dictates aggresive tone mapping at around 700 nits for HDR. Here's Sony's official representation of what object based HDR remaster actually does and if this is actually frame by frame HDR grading then they did a super piss poor job of explaining/selling it as such in this breakdown IMHO :

With Object-based HDR remaster (1), the color in individual objects on screen is analyzed and the contrast adjusted, unlike most TVs where contrast is only adjusted along one black-to-white contrast curve (2). Because objects are remastered individually,this TV can reproduce greater depth, textures, and more real pictures .

The thing to ask ourselves as consumers is if the X1 chip is actually capable of doing what some are saying then why wasn't Sony more aggressive with its ad campaign regarding this ability? That's professional malpractice then for whomever wrote the above description of it's function.

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I was thinking the same thing if Sony does a dynamic HDR implementation why wouldn't they market that they HDR is better then the rest?

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post #10560 of 10804 Old 05-23-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pbdye View Post
So I *finally* updated my 55" 930E to v6.5850 today and after looking closely at the screen (something I don't do all that often) I found I had a single continuous line of green vertical pixels a little right off of dead center. Has anyone found a software solution to this, or am I going to have to make use of the extended warranty/warranties I have on the set to get it permanently fixed?
From Wikipedia:

Stuck pixels are often incorrectly referred to as "dead pixels", which have a similar appearance. In a dead pixel, all three sub-pixels are permanently off, producing a pixel which is permanently black. Dead pixels can result from similar manufacturing anomalies as stuck pixels, but may also occur from a non-functioning transistor resulting in complete lack of power to the pixel. Dead pixels are much less likely to correct themselves over time or be repaired through any of several popular methods.
Stuck pixels, unlike dead pixels, have been reported by LCD screen owners to disappear, and there are several popular methods purported to fix them, such as gently rubbing the screen (in an attempt to reset the pixel), cycling the color value of the stuck pixel rapidly (in other words, flashing bright colors on the screen), or simply tolerating the stuck pixel until it disappears (which can take anywhere from a day to years). While these methods can work on some stuck pixels others cannot be fixed by the above methods. Also, some stuck pixels will reappear after being fixed if the screen is left off for several hours.





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