2017 Sony XBR 900E owners thread (No Price Talk) - Page 352 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10531 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by iwasky View Post
Yes, I bought the extended warranty from Costco. I am thinking weather I should return it or not. But all the boxing day sales are over, I could not buy another one at sale price any more.

To groove93, I've tried the settings you posted earlier in the thread. It does reduce the issue a little bit, but not by much. I think this is not a normal, my 6 years old 46 inch Sony LCD does not has this problem. May be the quality of TV has been gone down, and this becomes the new normal.
I'm also coming from a 46 Sony LCD, but that display also was not an FALD, no Dynamic Local Dimming, no X-tended Dynamic Range, no Clearness, No Clearness settings, no HDR, no Motion settings, no bt.2020 [email protected], etc etc.


There is a big difference in tech when it comes to these displays.
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post #10532 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
Ultimately it was reducing the "Clearness" setting found in the Motion Menu to its minimum. But I was also using both the Spears and Munsil and R. Masciola HDR Calibration Discs for adjustments.



The Clearness adjustment affects brightness of the display along with Motion.


Must admit I rarely see it, mainly with poorer quality content even with my calibrated set and with Clearness on High.

But when it happens I will try that setting, thanks


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post #10533 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Airsculpture View Post
Must admit I rarely see it, mainly with poorer quality content even with my calibrated set and with Clearness on High.

But when it happens I will try that setting, thanks


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I could not see any difference in motion when I made the adjustments to clearness, but I noticed how dark the display would get when I would reduce it. From there I had to recalibrate my entire display. Don't get me started on the 24p Sync setting, because I had to start from scratch with that too. Until I get some real equipment to measure greyscale or a professional calibration, I cannot be anymore content with this display and the images it produces.

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post #10534 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
5.1 is a fine system, as well.

ARC will be ok (HDMI Input 3 on Sony TV) for internal apps for audio back to your AVR but it gets trickier with a non compliant HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2 (Non 4K) AVR.

If you have cable or satellite that is outputting a 4K signal, then you'd need to connect the video HDMI out from you cable/satellite box DIRECTLY to HDMI 2 of your Sony TV and hopefully, there is a separate audio feed you can use from your cable/satellite "4K capable" box to run to and HDMI "In" on your AVR - - and then just toggle to that AVR input for audio.

Hope I haven't confused you but these are only issues with a 4K capable STB - either cable or satellite and a non complaint, 4K AVR. It would be a shame to not be able to obtain any 4K programming from your cable or satellite provider if it's available. Unfortunately for me and a lot of Comcast Cable users in the U.S. - - it's a non issue because there is nothing in 4K from Comcast. And quite frankly, I do not see any 4K from them for a long time in the future. Unless, of course, you call "streaming" from their STB 4K capability. I don't.

Sorry for the diatribe. Canada is ahead of the U.S. in 4K broadcasting. Come to think of it, who isn't?
I should be able to bypass the potential HDMI/HDCP issue by using the optical audio connection, right? Just not quite as fully featured...


As far as Canada being ahead of the US in 4K broadcasting, I think you're mis-informed. Shaw (my provider) doesn't have ANY 4K boxes, much less any 4k channels. Not sure about the rest of Canada, but there's only one company out West that does 4K broadcasting with limited channels, and when they were first introduced, they had tons of compatibility issues. I was thinking of upgrading my hardware, but all I'd get is a snazzy new interface and the same outputs. So I'll wait till they upgrade the hardware (again) in the next year or two, I guess.

And the US is far ahead of us (I think) in terms of on-demand 4K broadcasts. You might have to pay for it, but at least you can enjoy it! But I'll be looking around to see what I can find. At least if I can find an Android App to make it work, I won't have to buy another box, I guess...


Cheers!


C
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post #10535 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
I could not see any difference in motion when I made the adjustments to clearness, but I noticed how dark the display would get when I would reduce it. From there I had to recalibrate my entire display. Don't get me started on the 24p Sync setting, because I had to start from scratch with that too. Until I get some real equipment to measure greyscale or a professional calibration, I cannot be anymore content with this display and the images it produces.


Yeah I’m happy with it , I wasn’t that far off before the pro calibration but now I’m pretty content


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post #10536 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by iwasky View Post
Yes, I bought the extended warranty from Costco. I am thinking weather I should return it or not. But all the boxing day sales are over, I could not buy another one at sale price any more..
IMO, I would hold onto the set for a bit, learn to live with it. CES starts Monday, all the new and shiny stuff will be announced and on display.
Next yrs model may well have the upgrades/features/fixes included.


You also have 90 days to return it without penalty of using the warranty.
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post #10537 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CNeufeld View Post
I should be able to bypass the potential HDMI/HDCP issue by using the optical audio connection, right? Just not quite as fully featured...


As far as Canada being ahead of the US in 4K broadcasting, I think you're mis-informed. Shaw (my provider) doesn't have ANY 4K boxes, much less any 4k channels. Not sure about the rest of Canada, but there's only one company out West that does 4K broadcasting with limited channels, and when they were first introduced, they had tons of compatibility issues. I was thinking of upgrading my hardware, but all I'd get is a snazzy new interface and the same outputs. So I'll wait till they upgrade the hardware (again) in the next year or two, I guess.

And the US is far ahead of us (I think) in terms of on-demand 4K broadcasts. You might have to pay for it, but at least you can enjoy it! But I'll be looking around to see what I can find. At least if I can find an Android App to make it work, I won't have to buy another box, I guess...


Cheers!


C
I thought Rogers (see below) had 4K sports content as well as other 4K offerings. Maybe it's not available in all areas of Canada? I know of no American sports team that broadcasts anything in 4K, period. And yes, there are streaming locations in the U.S. like Netflix (my number one choice for 4K/HDR) and Netflix is in Canada, as well. Google Play Movies are great with the internal apps (IMHO). I like their .99 cent specials. I don't purchase any $4.00 or $5.00 rentals -- I'd rather rent from Redbox or use Google Play Movies instead.

Lastly - yes, an optical output would work for you, as well. But since you do NOT have any 4K content from your provider right now, I wouldn't worry about it and I'd connect everything through your AVR. It will upscale any 720p or 1080i content you have. Then, use ARC back to your receiver for audio from internal apps. ARC will let you pass DD+ which will ensure 5./7.1 & if available, Dolby Atmos audio versus some streaming sites that only deploy dolby stereo (two channel) for their audio streams.

Rogers 4K TV FAQs

What is 4K TV?

4K TV is the new generation of high definition TV. It delivers a theatre-quality experience with four times the resolution of HD, virtually putting you in the middle of the action. You can clearly see the emotion on faces from a distance and get super high definition zooms for extreme close-ups without motion blur.

How does Rogers deliver 4K TV?


Our NextBox™ 4K and NextBox 4K PVR digital boxes allow 4K TVs to display our wide variety of 4K channels.

What 4K content does Rogers offer?


In 2017 we’ve continued to bring our customers even more 4K content, including:
  • All 81 Toronto Blue Jays 2017 home games, live on Sportsnet 4K
  • 4K Movies
  • 24/7 coverage of popular music festivals on Festival 4K
  • Stunning Ultra HD with 4K coverage of hockey and baseball on TSN 4K
  • Exciting Pay Per View events
  • Marquee MMA and boxing match-ups
  • Extraordinary shows from around the world
  • Plus more 4K content coming soon!

Last updated: December 11, 2017

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SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, BenQ W1080ST, Denon X5200 & Emotiva XPA-3
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post #10538 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 02:41 PM
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Yup that's how it is. Kind of unnerving when worried about issues.

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post #10539 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 02:42 PM
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I would search Amazon before you drop 70 bones at best buy for a simple HDMI switch...you can get them for less than half that easily
+ that has some bad reviews for like not switching properly and others.
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post #10540 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 03:19 PM
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So finally got my 75 inch 900e setup and done some initial testing. So far, I'm pretty impressed. I swapped a 940e for the 900 due to motion issues on the 940e. I knew it had them going in but hoped it wouldn't be an issue...but it was.

The drop down is not super significant. The blacks are a bit deeper and the brightness is a bit brighter but it's not that different. I don't seem to have any light bleed and I have watched some of the following content

YouTube- 4k HDR demos made for OLED, there is some faint clouding but it's not super noticeable. Again stepping down from the 940e I notice it a little bit but it's not bad at all, very bright and colors really pop
1080 blu ray- Rise of the Planet of the Apes- Black bars were pitch black, colors were good, motion was very good
4k blu ray- X-men Apocalypse- Stunning. I watched this on the 940e and it was Un-Freaking-Believable. The contrast on the 940 is about double the 900 so it did look better and it was JAW DROPPING. The 900 was still pretty freaking good. No clouding, colors pop, motion super smooth

I did drop my black level down to 45, kept my color at 60 and turned Live Color up to Medium. I think ramping the colors up a little like this makes up for dropping the black level down which helps to mitigate clouding during dark scenes with bright areas. I'm very happy so far.
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post #10541 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 03:22 PM
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Some early pics
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Sony 75xZ9D connected to Panasonic UB820 and Nakamichi Shockwafe 7.1 Pro Atmos
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post #10542 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 04:51 PM
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Yup that's how it is. Kind of unnerving when worried about issues.

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If you're seeing the same issues in actual content then you should be worried. Splash screens are inconsistent displayed from moving content, and often pushes the limits of the Tv technology in a bad way. If you're using the display as a computer monitor where you're going to see a lot of this sort of thing, then maybe you have cause for concern, but as a way to watch movies and Tv, I wouldn't put any stock in static menus or splash screens at all.
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post #10543 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
The light ring around the display is normal. This has been discussed many times in the past on this forum. Adjusting your display settings to minimize this "ring" to your liking is what's needed. I have it and I purchased the tv back at the end of May. It's not as prominent on mine because I've adjusted my display settings to reduce the appearance of the ring.
Except I don't have it. Maybe it's the rtings settings I was using, or those I'm using now, but I've never noticed it, even when testing back when I bought it.

Here's a gray screen I took back in July when I was using the rings.com settings, which I posted because I was concerned about another problem, which I was assured was not an issue, and I now agree.

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post #10544 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 04:57 PM
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Except I don't have it. Maybe it's the rtings settings I was using, or those I'm using now, but I've never noticed it, even when testing back when I bought it.
I haven't noticed a light ring either, but i don't have my brightness maxed out either...how could you with this set? Unless you just want to punish your retinas into submission...
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post #10545 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 05:01 PM
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Except I don't have it. Maybe it's the rtings settings I was using, or those I'm using now, but I've never noticed it, even when testing back when I bought it.
Your last post regarding Splash screens pretty much sums it up for me. It's the only time I really see it, and it's barely noticeable. It's a stationary image, but never see it during any type of motion.

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post #10546 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 05:21 PM
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I really like my 900e and have not had any real problems out of it in the 6 weeks I have owned it but the motion and judder capabilities of this set is not that great in my opinion. I agree that it is a source thing and the two main things I watch is cable tv through a set top box and blurays going through my Ps3 or my Samsung 4k player. As far as cable goes the studder, judder problem ranges from nothing on some programs to just awful on others. The biggest problems I have with judder is law and order but only on certain channels (because L&O is on like 5 cable channels every evening) as well as certain other shows on on a few stations. On football I will get stutter when the camera goes from full field view to a closeup. I have my motion settings on standard with cinemotion on low but it doesn't matter because the same happens all motion setting turned to off. As far as Blurays go I really like the SOE but it is a no go for my Sony. Lots of stutter and judder as well as motion artifacts especially around somebodys head as they are walking on certain scenes. For bluray I now leave motion on standard and cinemotion on high. The funny thing is that my 6 year old Samsung has none of these problems with its various motion settings. The motion handling is one of the main reasons I chose the 900e from reviews I had read but the are not that great IMO. Love the picture though and it is not enough reason to return the tv but still disappointing.
I have yet to see any motion problems that were not source related on my set. I have Motionflow off and CineMotion set to high. I also have a 2 year old Sony 810C and the 900E seems to have improved on the great motion handling that model had.

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I posted a few pages back that I hadn't noticed any judder on my 55 inch 900E in the few weeks I've owned it but today when watching the Saints Panthers game on Fox (720P) I did see what appeared to be a problem after the picture changed from a closeup to full field view. I still have my old 810C nearby, I recorded the game so later today or tomorrow I am going to play back the same minute or so and see if the same thing happens. I didn't see any judder on my 810C in 2 years of use. If this is a problem with the 900E it seems like something that should be fixable with a firmware update.

Last edited by snorge; 01-07-2018 at 06:24 PM.
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post #10547 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 05:28 PM
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My experience is just like yours. Respected sites like rtings.com claim the TV is judder free with Motionflow set to True Cinema and CineMotion set to High, but using my two main content sources (1080p Netflix streams and 480p DVDs played on a Bluray player) the judder I see is like the one in your example (very obvious during camera pans) and in NO case have those two settings had the slightest visible effect to my eyes. Perhaps it's because my two sources are not meant to be effected by the True Cinema setting. I don't know.

...OR, the type of judder that is effected by that setting is just too subtle for me to notice,

...OR, people mean different things things when using the term judder. When I use the term, I'm not referring to blurring; I mean the jerky, un-steady, un-smooth, usually vertical edges of people or objects, when the camera does left/right pans. The only thing that usually (but not always) helps is setting Motionflow to Custom: 2 or 3 value.
I noticed turning MotionFlow completely off and setting Cinemotion to Medium cleaned up judder on 1080p Netflix streams for me.

I tried doing research on the subject and noticed some people in the Sony A1E thread have also experienced this weird judder during pans when both MotionFlow and Cinemotion (Medium/High) are enabled. Their end conclusion was to use Cinemotion on Medium and then MotionFlow completely off. Hopefully that helps with your issue as well.
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post #10548 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Stutter, judder, blooming, bleeding. Seems like the last week or so, this thread has been taken over by these topics. I own two Sony 900E's and can only speak to occasional judder that is mostly attributable to the source. Otherwise, I've got zero of the other. And to beat a dead horse again, I believe a lot of what folks are seeing are due to their settings or source material.

Anybody enjoying their Sony 900E these days?
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Curious to know when your 900E's were manufactured.. As another member pointed out before, these complaints of light bands did not show up for over something like 9000 posts. And around the time I got my TV (Best buy black Friday sale) there seemed to be a spike of "edge bleed" related posts.

For those curious, I was running cinema pro, brightness maxed, local dimming medium, native amazon video app streaming. On standard the light banding gets worse, and although you can probably turn the brightness down to compensate, wouldn't any HDR content override that fix?



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I am very happy with my 55 inch set made in October. If I remember correctly a lot of the complaints came from people who stated theirs were manufactured in November. It seems the majority of people here purchased the 65 inch size as well though so that could be playing into it.
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post #10549 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:02 PM
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2 posts and we are on such an advanced subject already, eh?
I did some additional testing with the different picture modes using an isolated clip from "Hell's Kitchen" which is constantly changing shots. Frame repeat/drop issue is visible on all modes with various forms of motion smoothing options enabled and disabled except the Photo Modes and Game Mode. I don't see the issue in the standard viewing modes when streaming from Netflix. Planet Earth II looks absolutely stunning. I really think it is a great set, but it looks like I got one with a glitch. Sounds like there may be some issues on some of the late year production models? I guess I can watch DirecTV content on the Game and Photo modes, but it seems a shame I can't enjoy the "normal" picture settings while watching sports and other "over the air" programs. Do you think I should start a claim with Sony to try for a replacement?
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post #10550 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:11 PM
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anyway to optimize HD viewing on DTV? Watching NBA on Fox Sport SW and pic looks horrible
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post #10551 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:28 PM
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Ive noted (in this thread iirc) about how ****ty Comcast looks on this TV,and people have said that it's because the upscaler on sony TV's is not very good... If that's the case, then why does a YouTube video in 1080 look totally nice and basically just as nice as stuff on my 1080 computer monitor?

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post #10552 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:38 PM
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Ive noted (in this thread iirc) about how ****ty Comcast looks on this TV,and people have said that it's because the upscaler on sony TV's is not very good... If that's the case, then why does a YouTube video in 1080 look totally nice and basically just as nice as stuff on my 1080 computer monitor?

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That has more to do with compression coming from broadcast networks/cable/satellite feeds than the TVs ability to upscale. Compressing 720p and 1080i and viewing this content on a display with a native 4k resolution will show artifacts. A less compressed feed of the same resolution will result in a cleaner image.

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post #10553 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:40 PM
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That has more to do with compression coming from broadcast networks/cable/satellite feeds than the TVs ability to upscale. Compressing 720p and 1080i and viewing this content on a display with a notice 4k resolution will show artifacts. A less compressed feed of the same resolution will result in a cleaner image.

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So it's not just that it's broadcast in 720/1080, it's that it's compressed as well?

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post #10554 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:44 PM
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So it's not just that it's broadcast in 720/1080, it's that it's compressed as well?

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Yes, the compression at any resolution will muck up the image, whether you're viewing the content on a 1080p or 4k display. The higher pixeled 4k display will just intensify the look as it will upscale the image to its native resolution.

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post #10555 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:45 PM
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Yes, the compression at any resolution will muck up the image, whether you're viewing the content on a 1080p or 4k display. The higher pixeled 4k display will just intensify the look as it will upscale the image to its native resolution.

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So is you tube not compressed then? It's just cable that is?

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post #10556 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:53 PM
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So is you tube not compressed then? It's just cable that is?

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Yes youtube is compressed, and so is Vimeo. They just use different compression algorithms. Same goes for cable/satellite/OTA broadcast signals.

You'll notice that YouTube uses the vp9 profile 2 spec for 4k HDR clips. If you check the "stats for nerds" information for one of these videos you should notice that h.265 is used as well.

Older 1080p feeds will have h.264.






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post #10557 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 06:56 PM
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anyway to optimize HD viewing on DTV? Watching NBA on Fox Sport SW and pic looks horrible
Check to make sure native resolution is enabled in your directv settings. The box I have auto enables 480p for everything regardless of the broadcast resolution of I leave it off. Setting it to native takes a second longer for the picture to appear during channel changing but the picture looks a lot better.

Let me know if that helps. Settings, display, resolutionresolution

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post #10558 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 07:11 PM
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Check to make sure native resolution is enabled in your directv settings. The box I have auto enables 480p for everything regardless of the broadcast resolution of I leave it off. Setting it to native takes a second longer for the picture to appear during channel changing but the picture looks a lot better.

Let me know if that helps. Settings, display, resolutionresolution
I had it off and switched to on but the pic looks a bit more grainy and blurred
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post #10559 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 10:28 PM
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Check to make sure native resolution is enabled in your directv settings. The box I have auto enables 480p for everything regardless of the broadcast resolution of I leave it off. Setting it to native takes a second longer for the picture to appear during channel changing but the picture looks a lot better.

Let me know if that helps. Settings, display, resolutionresolution
I had it off and switched to on but the pic looks a bit more grainy and blurred

Do you have all the different resolutions selected too?

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post #10560 of 19002 Old 01-05-2018, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by joshua goard View Post
Check to make sure native resolution is enabled in your directv settings. The box I have auto enables 480p for everything regardless of the broadcast resolution of I leave it off. Setting it to native takes a second longer for the picture to appear during channel changing but the picture looks a lot better.

Let me know if that helps. Settings, display, resolutionresolution
I had it off and switched to on but the pic looks a bit more grainy and blurred
Plus some channels just suck, low resolution

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