2017 Sony XBR 900E owners thread (No Price Talk) - Page 486 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14551 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Despite what Rico and maybe a couple other owners who think this is a flawless tv (is that Quantum Apotheosis guy on youtube a member here under a different handle?) say, there is no setting that is going to make blooming vanish. Simple logic and an understanding of how a fald system works proves this as does experience with the set by anyone who is observant and watches it in a dimly lit/dark room. It's pretty well controlled with a lot of sdr content (though can still be seen at times) but clearly visible with hdr. I will say I found blooming slightly less noticeable with dimming on high than on medium and bias lighting helps a lot.

As for the 900F, you're still going to get blooming, especially with hdr content.

People who are trying to say a TV with 45-ish zones has no blooming should be ashamed of themselves as it does a disservice to any potential buyers looking for real info and as owners, THAT is what you should be striving to provide. Owners of the 650+ zone z9d report some blooming so how would the 900e not have any?

You can own something, like it, and still be able to point out its factual shortcomings. I mean come on...this is supposed to be the AV SCIENCE forum.

I like this TV and would have no problems recommending it to many yet it's not perfect and has shortcomings. It's a solid mid range TV.

Thanks for your fair take on the situation. I can wholeheartedly recommend this set to almost anyone. However, based on the reviews and post, I was expecting a bit more. Like you said, normal content is great but HDR blooming is distracting. Seems like the 900E has less zones than the 900F but from what I've seen it's not enough of a difference to improve HDR blooming.
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post #14552 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiloRambaldi View Post
Thanks for your fair take on the situation. I can wholeheartedly recommend this set to almost anyone. However, based on the reviews and post, I was expecting a bit more. Like you said, normal content is great but HDR blooming is distracting. Seems like the 900E has less zones than the 900F but from what I've seen it's not enough of a difference to improve HDR blooming.
Have you considered an OLED set instead of the Sony 900E so called "mid range offering?" Maybe no blooming with an OLED if that is a major distraction?

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post #14553 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 08:36 AM
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I finally got a notification that an update is available so i went ahead and updated. It took 35 minutes total, and now i have
Software version PKG6.2858.0082NAA I see some other folks here had started geting this update a few weeks ago so it must
be like Tivo where they do a soft roll-out over a period of weeks.

The original version that was onboard when i bought it on 3/18/18 was PKG6.2669.007NAA, then the next day it prompted me to update so i downloaded PKG6.2818.0075NAA where it's been until the latest update this morning.




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post #14554 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Despite what Rico and maybe a couple other owners who think this is a flawless tv (is that Quantum Apotheosis guy on youtube a member here under a different handle?) say, there is no setting that is going to make blooming vanish. Simple logic and an understanding of how a fald system works proves this as does experience with the set by anyone who is observant and watches it in a dimly lit/dark room. It's pretty well controlled with a lot of sdr content (though can still be seen at times) but clearly visible with hdr. I will say I found blooming slightly less noticeable with dimming on high than on medium and bias lighting helps a lot.

As for the 900F, you're still going to get blooming, especially with hdr content.

People who are trying to say a TV with 45-ish zones has no blooming should be ashamed of themselves as it does a disservice to any potential buyers looking for real info and as owners, THAT is what you should be striving to provide. Owners of the 650+ zone z9d report some blooming so how would the 900e not have any?

You can own something, like it, and still be able to point out its factual shortcomings. I mean come on...this is supposed to be the AV SCIENCE forum.

I like this TV and would have no problems recommending it to many yet it's not perfect and has shortcomings. It's a solid mid range TV.
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Originally Posted by MiloRambaldi View Post
Thanks for your fair take on the situation. I can wholeheartedly recommend this set to almost anyone. However, based on the reviews and post, I was expecting a bit more. Like you said, normal content is great but HDR blooming is distracting. Seems like the 900E has less zones than the 900F but from what I've seen it's not enough of a difference to improve HDR blooming.
The set does indeed have blooming. But you may or may not have a problem with it. During the day, you will likely not notice it at all. Settings play a huge role in reducing it when watching in a pitch black room. Bias lighting will help a lot too. Plus, sitting off angle either horizontally or even vertically to some degree makes it more noticable.

I am not staring at the black bars of my movies, there's no content there. If you are then you're doing it wrong. Enjoy your movies, not your black bars.
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Last edited by Todd Scott; 04-11-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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post #14555 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 08:59 AM
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I got my sisters 65900E set up and its a very nice set, very very solid TV.
For the price point, it can not be beat......
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post #14556 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Scott View Post
The set does indeed have blooming. But you may or may not have a problem with it. During the day, you will likely not notice it at all. Settings play a huge role in reducing it when watching in a pitch black room. Bias lighting will help a lot too. Plus, sitting off angle either horizontally or even vertically to some degree makes it more noticable.

I am not staring at the black bars of my movies, there's no content there. If you are then you're no doing it wrong. Enjoy your movies, not your black bars.
Agree with all.

For anyone who does not like to deal with black bars at all, I would suggest buying a HTPC and use MPC HC + MadVR to play your, for lack of a better expression, disk-based movies or downloaded or ripped videos. MPC HC allows you to zoom to any degree you'd like -- from minimizing the size of the bars to outright eliminating them. I go this route with our 900e and I just love the result.

I know that the LG OLEDs have a sort-of zoom feature to at least partially zoom the image, but because it is an OLED, its black bars are really black, but some folks may prefer less of a "slot vision" anyway. I don't know if any 4K tvs other than the LG have a zooom of any kind.

For streamed content, our 900e must display the bars, but our 5-year-old Sharp Aquos 1080p TV has "bit for bit", "S. Stretch" and "Zoom" aspect modes. The latter eliminates most slot-vision bars in Netflix and Prime Video movies. Nice feature.
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post #14557 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Herve View Post
Agree with all.

For anyone who does not like to deal with black bars at all, I would suggest buying a HTPC and use MPC HC + MadVR to play your, for lack of a better expression, disk-based movies or downloaded or ripped videos. MPC HC allows you to zoom to any degree you'd like -- from minimizing the size of the bars to outright eliminating them. I go this route with our 900e and I just love the result.

I know that the LG OLEDs have a sort-of zoom feature to at least partially zoom the image, but because it is an OLED, its black bars are really black, but some folks may prefer less of a "slot vision" anyway. I don't know if any 4K tvs other than the LG have a zooom of any kind.

For streamed content, our 900e must display the bars, but our 5-year-old Sharp Aquos 1080p TV has "bit for bit", "S. Stretch" and "Zoom" aspect modes. The latter eliminates most slot-vision bars in Netflix and Prime Video movies. Nice feature.
A) You don't necessarily have to have a HTPC to do this. RPi-based clients will generally allow you to adjust the overscan and "zoom" in.
B) If you're zooming to eliminate the bars, you're chopping content off of the edges. With 16:9 aspect ratios being much more the norm now, there's more "important" images at the edges - chopping them off will result in things being missed more with newer content.
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post #14558 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 09:14 AM
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For the price point, it can not be beat......
agreed.

thanks for taking care of that for me, smooth easy transaction.

I still think my plasma has it beat, but that was an entirely different price point.

I like this sony set much better than the vizio I got my folks last year.

she likes to game, and with Wii U, PS4 and Xbox, Im not seeing any lag at all yet.

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post #14559 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 09:16 AM
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From watching Blu rays, 4K/HDR movies, Streaming, and watching HD cable I can honestly say I wouldnt replace my 55inch x900e with any other tv. And now that Ive added the Sony x800 4K Blu ray player to the mix it's even better. I was looking for a long time for a 4K set to replace my beloved W900A 1080p tv and my x900e has filled it shoes in every possible way. However. Is there anyway to check Panel Hours on the x900e? I know I could do it on my old W900A but I have no clue if you can do it on the x900e. Anyone know if its possible?
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post #14560 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Scott View Post
The set does indeed have blooming. But you may or may not have a problem with it. During the day, you will likely not notice it at all. Settings play a huge role in reducing it when watching in a pitch black room. Bias lighting will help a lot too. Plus, sitting off angle either horizontally or even vertically to some degree makes it more noticable.

I am not staring at the black bars of my movies, there's no content there. If you are then you're no doing it wrong. Enjoy your movies, not your black bars.
I guess I must be lucky in that I have zero blooming and incredible black blacks. Absolutely no distraction watching letterboxed movies and even last night, with the Netflix show "Taken," it had many transition scenes where your screen goes totally black. And for a couple of seconds.

Now, I'm not in a pitch black room (very dim lighting) and even when I did have all the lights off - - it wasn't a distraction. I'm also dead center in front of the screen, so maybe that makes a difference. But I don't understand the "blooming" comments as I don't see any on my TV.
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post #14561 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I guess I must be lucky in that I have zero blooming and incredible black blacks. Absolutely no distraction watching letterboxed movies and even last night, with the Netflix show "Taken," it had many transition scenes where your screen goes totally black. And for a couple of seconds.

Now, I'm not in a pitch black room (very dim lighting) and even when I did have all the lights off - - it wasn't a distraction. I'm also dead center in front of the screen, so maybe that makes a difference. But I don't understand the "blooming" comments as I don't see any on my TV.

I agree Rico. I dont have any blooming issues either so you and I both must be lucky! lol
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post #14562 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I guess I must be lucky in that I have zero blooming and incredible black blacks. Absolutely no distraction watching letterboxed movies and even last night, with the Netflix show "Taken," it had many transition scenes where your screen goes totally black. And for a couple of seconds.

Now, I'm not in a pitch black room (very dim lighting) and even when I did have all the lights off - - it wasn't a distraction. I'm also dead center in front of the screen, so maybe that makes a difference. But I don't understand the "blooming" comments as I don't see any on my TV.
Glad you are happy with your set and you're not seeing it. Just be aware that there is the possibility of adjusting the TV to the point where you start crushing black detail just to eliminate blooming. I have tried some other members settings who put up some you-tube videos and his settings were really crushing the black levels. You can check this with an appropriate test pattern. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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post #14563 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 10:21 AM
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I picked up an open box 55" 900e this weekend at best buy (best deal I could find on or offline). I'm pretty happy with it, other than android TV is terrible (Who designed this steaming pile of crap?). I'll probably pickup another 4k apple tv eventually but for now I'm just ignoring android tv and using my xbox one x to drive everything.

Does anybody have any suggested settings for gaming? I went on and turned on game mode, but I haven't done much else. I'm also using the internal speakers, but didn't touch any audio settings either. Out of the box settings are good, but I'm sure some tinkering would improve some things.
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post #14564 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 10:30 AM
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Auto detecting external audio system: ARC/Optical out...

So, after much frustration with phantom input switching and other oddities (since the recent firmware update), i did a full factory reset of the TV on Friday, and after painstakingly putting in all of my custom picture settings, i'm back up and running. and no more phantom input changes and now, when i sleep the Apple TV (HDMI2) forcefully, it wakes up properly and no more flashing screens between detected input and showing the input.

at that time, i also made sure to turn off all Bravia Sync stuff, and i also moved around my inputs so that my Emotiva Processor, originally connected to HDMI3/ARC, is now on HDMI1 to avoid any possible CEC issues. i still have my audio optical output connected to my Emotiva processor.

so, prior to this reset and making sure all Bravia Sync was off (i thought i had it all off previously, so really, the only switch i think is HDMI1 from HDMI3), when i only powered up the TV to use the Tivo (HDMI4), it would automatically select the TV's built in speakers. and then when the Emotiva was on, it would automatically switch to the 7.1 audio system.

so, based on this (i plead ignorance so sorry for the lame discussion/questions): do i need to go back to HDMI3 in order for the TV to properly choose which audio output to use. i had falsely assumed this "feature" would work with an optical cable connected, but that's apparently not the case...

i'm a little wary of going back to HDMI3/ARC for the Emotiva because that may bring back the other issues i was having.

sorry for the rambling message... just want to try to understand what the TV is doing with the two potential ways of outputting audio from the TV to the audio system.
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post #14565 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 10:42 AM
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Netflix network issue

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Originally Posted by inphra View Post
I've run into this issue where when I shutdown my X900E after watching Netflix, I'll turn on the TV the next day and, although the TV says it has a WiFi connection, Netflix indicates there is no network connection. It takes about 5 minutes or so for the network to settle and then internet is restored.

Anyone else run into a similar issue? I'm on the latest firmware as per the Sony site. It seems the WiFi connection is rather flaky with this TV even though my 5G router is about 5 feet away from the TV.

Thanks!
I believe that is more a NetFlix app issue rather than the WiFi connection. NetFlix has done this to me for a long time, if I don't log out and just restart the Netflix app the next day it will almost always claim the network is unreachable, restarting the NetFlix app gets the connection back. For me this has been the behavior of NetFlix for a long time. No other app seems to have this issue.
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post #14566 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 10:54 AM
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I believe that is more a NetFlix app issue rather than the WiFi connection. NetFlix has done this to me for a long time, if I don't log out and just restart the Netflix app the next day it will almost always claim the network is unreachable, restarting the NetFlix app gets the connection back. For me this has been the behavior of NetFlix for a long time. No other app seems to have this issue.
Personally, I think it's a combination of poor network management on the part of Sony (how IP's are renewed with DHCP, interfaces are activated, etc.) and the apps like Netflix requiring some specific aspect of the network to function in a certain way and the TV/network isn't ready for it.
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post #14567 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Todd Scott View Post
Glad you are happy with your set and you're not seeing it. Just be aware that there is the possibility of adjusting the TV to the point where you start crushing black detail just to eliminate blooming. I have tried some other members settings who put up some you-tube videos and his settings were really crushing the black levels. You can check this with an appropriate test pattern. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I actually bumped my black levels up to 48 and on SDR Content the black bars are still very black and I got a lot of the black detail back. HDR content will have blooming, no way around it, but like you said, bias lighting helps A LOT. Almost a must in my opinion. Plus, it just looks really cool in my opinion and it's super cheap on amazon.

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post #14568 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 11:00 AM
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Wow, exactly what I did after a brief and confusing dabble with ARC on my 900E.
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post #14569 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 11:07 AM
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I actually bumped my black levels up to 48 and on SDR Content the black bars are still very black and I got a lot of the black detail back. HDR content will have blooming, no way around it, but like you said, bias lighting helps A LOT. Almost a must in my opinion. Plus, it just looks really cool in my opinion and it's super cheap on amazon.
Ah ha! It was your settings I tried. Found them way too dark for my liking, but... it got me one step closer to HDR nirvana on this TV after I tweaked my black levels to where I wanted them.
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post #14570 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 11:14 AM
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Ah ha! It was your settings I tried. Found them way too dark for my liking, but... it got me one step closer to HDR nirvana on this TV after I tweaked my black levels to where I wanted them.
Yeah, i do -1 gamma and had blacks at 65 with black adjust on Medium. But i bumped up to 48 and it works for me. I like a darker picture though...
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post #14571 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Scott View Post
Glad you are happy with your set and you're not seeing it. Just be aware that there is the possibility of adjusting the TV to the point where you start crushing black detail just to eliminate blooming. I have tried some other members settings who put up some you-tube videos and his settings were really crushing the black levels. You can check this with an appropriate test pattern. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I get absolutely "lights out" black level detail. It's scary good. Especially for really dark movies like the "Ape" series, as I refer to it. I also remember a Netflix "Narcos" picture, late at dusk, with a helicopter, the beaming lights and incredible detail where you could clearly see the tall grass and objects in the background under extremely low light conditions.

So - I'm sure experiences can vary but I'm dialed in with excellent black levels - - at least for my sources. (Mainly cable & native app streaming)

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V.2 (FL/FR), CC-690 (C), V.5, ADP 590 V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub,
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post #14572 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 11:56 AM
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Sony X900E Calibration Spectracal Calman and X-rite i1 Display Pro.Here's todays calibration reading.

See attached PDF.
Attached Files
File Type: zip SI Advanced Report-2018-04-09-pro-april-9-apple-tv.pdf.zip (535.4 KB, 189 views)
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post #14573 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 12:23 PM
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I believe that is more a NetFlix app issue rather than the WiFi connection. NetFlix has done this to me for a long time, if I don't log out and just restart the Netflix app the next day it will almost always claim the network is unreachable ...
That's weird. When I have this problem, Youtube and Amazon Prime both claim they can't reach the network (I am hardwired with internet), whereas Netflix has no problem.
Quote:
Though I did consider going to WiFi since my router is capable of 866mbps on its 5ghz band compared to the ethernet ports 100mbps.
What the router claims to be capable of, and what you actually get, are two completely different things. My internet was recently upgraded to Specturm 200Mbps, and I actually see that (sometimes even a little better) with ethernet connections (to my computer). But on wifi I see about 40Mbps. This is with an Airport Extreme, that claims to be WAY faster than that.
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post #14574 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jge1 View Post
What the router claims to be capable of, and what you actually get, are two completely different things. My internet was recently upgraded to Specturm 200Mbps, and I actually see that (sometimes even a little better) with ethernet connections (to my computer). But on wifi I see about 40Mbps. This is with an Airport Extreme, that claims to be WAY faster than that.
What are your endpoint devices capable of? If you're running an older laptop, for example, that doesn't have a multi-channel capable WiFi radio, it doesn't matter if your router and connection can support the 200Mbps or above numbers... You'll still be heavily limited by your endpoint's capabilities.
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post #14575 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
What are your endpoint devices capable of? If you're running an older laptop, for example, that doesn't have a multi-channel capable WiFi radio, it doesn't matter if your router and connection can support the 200Mbps or above numbers... You'll still be heavily limited by your endpoint's capabilities.
Router is 5th generation Airport Extreme, supports 802.11a/b/g/n and has 2.4 and 5Ghz radios (in Airport Utility, I created a 2nd wifi network with 5GHz appended to the name, so can force using that radio), which I believe should support 100Mbps or more. My mid-2011 also claims to support 802.11a/b/g/n. I am using speedtest-net to measure speed. Right now I am seeing 20Mbps.
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post #14576 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jge1 View Post
That's weird. When I have this problem, Youtube and Amazon Prime both claim they can't reach the network (I am hardwired with internet), whereas Netflix has no problem.

What the router claims to be capable of, and what you actually get, are two completely different things. My internet was recently upgraded to Specturm 200Mbps, and I actually see that (sometimes even a little better) with ethernet connections (to my computer). But on wifi I see about 40Mbps. This is with an Airport Extreme, that claims to be WAY faster than that.
My router is most certainly capable of providing my ISPs max speed over its WiFi which is a paltry 175mbps. It’s been doing so for a few years now. Fully tested it when I got it but can’t remember where it capped. I’m remembering getting at least 500mbps out of it to a laptop though.

My wireless connection will most certainly be faster than my TVs Ethernet port however I like not having to worry about its stability. If you need a fantastic router with excellent range then the Asus ac68u comes with my full recommendation.

Regardless I’d suggest setting the TV up to using a static IP and see if that resolves the issue. Good chance it does.
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post #14577 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 02:02 PM
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I guess I must be lucky in that I have zero blooming and incredible black blacks. Absolutely no distraction watching letterboxed movies and even last night, with the Netflix show "Taken," it had many transition scenes where your screen goes totally black. And for a couple of seconds.

Now, I'm not in a pitch black room (very dim lighting) and even when I did have all the lights off - - it wasn't a distraction. I'm also dead center in front of the screen, so maybe that makes a difference. But I don't understand the "blooming" comments as I don't see any on my TV.
Same here, very little lighting in my room where I have my 75 inch 900 e (no windows) and the bars are black when watching HDR content and my blacks are black as night. Very happy with this TV especially for the price point.
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post #14578 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 02:07 PM
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Sony X900E Calibration Spectracal Calman and X-rite i1 Display Pro.Here's todays calibration reading.

See attached PDF.
Wish I had the time, money and patience to do this kind of stuff. Great job with just the 2 point settings.
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post #14579 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I guess I must be lucky in that I have zero blooming and incredible black blacks. Absolutely no distraction watching letterboxed movies and even last night, with the Netflix show "Taken," it had many transition scenes where your screen goes totally black. And for a couple of seconds.

Now, I'm not in a pitch black room (very dim lighting) and even when I did have all the lights off - - it wasn't a distraction. I'm also dead center in front of the screen, so maybe that makes a difference. But I don't understand the "blooming" comments as I don't see any on my TV.
I was was worried about the blooming issues reported by some users before I purchased mine. Especially since I have had a LG 65" OLED for the past 2 years. I was pleasantly surprised at how minimal the blooming issue really is in my experience and my set is even in a dark room. I'm not sure it is less of an issue on the larger 75 inch models or not. I do know that the settings you adjust can over expose the blooming on the 900E for sure.

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post #14580 of 19272 Old 04-09-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I get absolutely "lights out" black level detail. It's scary good. Especially for really dark movies like the "Ape" series, as I refer to it. I also remember a Netflix "Narcos" picture, late at dusk, with a helicopter, the beaming lights and incredible detail where you could clearly see the tall grass and objects in the background under extremely low light conditions.

So - I'm sure experiences can vary but I'm dialed in with excellent black levels - - at least for my sources. (Mainly cable & native app streaming)
This is what it's all about... dialing it in until we are happy with what we see. I'm finally happy with my settings as well. I'm at a point where I'm really marvelling at the picture quality.
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