2017 Sony XBR 900E owners thread (No Price Talk) - Page 648 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19411 of 19437 Old 02-10-2020, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by vapore0n View Post
I was watching a SD movie last night. It was a rip from a DVD, played through Kodi.
Movie looked horrible. I guess this was to be expected, as the 490p signal is streched to 4k.


What do people here do to watch regular DVD rips? Are there any settings on the TV to make the image much better? I know the upscaling area applies to 1080p content only.


Thank
I have a lot of SD content of TV Series that I ripped down from DVD (shows like M.A.S.H.). Predominantly, my client of choice has been the native Plex app and I have played this content on a 75" (940D), multiple 65" (900E, 800E, 950G), 55" (800E), and 49" (900E) sets with zero issues. If I try to play this content back using an external device, the content goes bad on me...

HD FireStick - attempts to upscale from 480 to 1080 and then forces the TV to upscale again from 1080 to 2160. Double upscaling of content look degraded.
4K FireStick - attempts to upscale from 480 to 2160 and does a poor job of it.

Content is not 'stretched', it is upscaled. And that means that whatever device is being fed the lower resolution image must create pixels where there were none before to convert it to 2160 - otherwise, the TV can not display it under any circumstances. If your source quality is good, and you upscale only once (either the TV via native app or entirely by an external device that has high quality for upscaling), then it should be fine.

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What do you mean my 'upscaling area'? All vids that aren't 4k are upscaled to 4k if it's going to fill the screen.
I use the Nvidia Shield to watch DVD rips. They do look sort of blurry, but you just need to sit farther back from the TV to make it look better.
I think you misunderstand how TV's display pictures - there is no requirement to upscale to "fill the screen". A 4K TV (or monitor) is capable of showing exactly one resolution - 4K (also known as UHD and 2160). Any content fed to it that is lower in resolution MUST be upscaled in order to be displayed "at all". No exceptions.

SD (480) content is most likely to get blurry when an external device is attempting to upscale it and does not have a high quality processing engine to do so, or is unable to upscale to 4K directly. If an external device is only capable of increasing the resolution part way and then feeds it to the TV, the TV has to upscale it "a second time." This scenario is the most common one to produce blurry content from 480 original content that would otherwise be reasonably clear.
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post #19412 of 19437 Old 02-10-2020, 03:56 PM
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Who is past the 24 month point and doing fine?
I am
Oct - 17 and no issues
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post #19413 of 19437 Old 02-10-2020, 05:48 PM
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Im at 28 months doing fine but I have not updated firmware for 20 months. Not broken so I don't need to fix it.

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post #19414 of 19437 Old 02-10-2020, 06:21 PM
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Yeah, I just tried the same file on a different drive and it froze/stopped again. I then plugged each drive into my PS4, PS4 recognizes it but won't play it at all. The PS4 did play a x264 .mkv files however so I think I found the answer and BOOO
My x900e plays hevc/mkv files without any issues. Running Aug 2017 system version. Are you using the built in app? If so, try downloading vlc. It's better imo with the exception of no native DD support.
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post #19415 of 19437 Old 02-10-2020, 06:54 PM
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Hi all - does anyone have experience with 4k HDR content through Comcast? First time I watched a 4k broadcast was the Super Bowl and I noticed what I would describe as a pulsating backlight (the tv would get a bit darker or brighter every second or so). There was another 4k HDR event tonight (dog show) and I saw the same thing.

I've seen reports of similar issues with this tv but nothing specific to comcast. Unfortunately the Netflix/Prime Video apps through xfinity box) don't support 4k so I couldn't test that.

I don't have this pulsating from the TV apps or another hdmi source (ps4 pro). So I'm leaning toward this being something related to the cable box (I'll try a different hdmi cable and to bypass my AVR next time there is a 4k HDR broadcast...but I'm still concerned it could be a TV issue).

Has anyone else seen this? Thanks very much for any insight
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post #19416 of 19437 Old 02-11-2020, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by vapore0n View Post
I think what you are mentioning is called upconverting. Changes from native video resolution to the 4k resolution of the display.

The upscaling menu area in the tv gives you options for enhancing the picture.



I used to have a PC connected to a Samsung 1080p display. DVD rips looked great. On this 4k TV, they look unwatchable. Bad blurriness, artifacts, bland color, etc. It looks like those old TV channels that play old movies.


I'm going to try playing directly from the TV, vs using the NVidia Shield. See if that makes a difference. I do remember changing some settings on the TV to make DVDs look nicer. Like color smoothing/dithering something.

Um, no, I'm not. https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...icles/00030759
The question of how the image is upscaled from a lower resolution to a higher resolution is called digital signal processing or DSP.
Who has time to mess with all those settings? I've always just gone with the TV's default DSP settings for the upscaling. Now that I think about it, the Shield is probably the device responsible for the image quality, because its video output is set to 4k, and Kodi is not using resolution matching, so the TV already sees a 4k signal.
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post #19417 of 19437 Old 02-11-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
I have a lot of SD content of TV Series that I ripped down from DVD (shows like M.A.S.H.). Predominantly, my client of choice has been the native Plex app and I have played this content on a 75" (940D), multiple 65" (900E, 800E, 950G), 55" (800E), and 49" (900E) sets with zero issues. If I try to play this content back using an external device, the content goes bad on me...

HD FireStick - attempts to upscale from 480 to 1080 and then forces the TV to upscale again from 1080 to 2160. Double upscaling of content look degraded.
4K FireStick - attempts to upscale from 480 to 2160 and does a poor job of it.

Content is not 'stretched', it is upscaled. And that means that whatever device is being fed the lower resolution image must create pixels where there were none before to convert it to 2160 - otherwise, the TV can not display it under any circumstances. If your source quality is good, and you upscale only once (either the TV via native app or entirely by an external device that has high quality for upscaling), then it should be fine.



I think you misunderstand how TV's display pictures - there is no requirement to upscale to "fill the screen". A 4K TV (or monitor) is capable of showing exactly one resolution - 4K (also known as UHD and 2160). Any content fed to it that is lower in resolution MUST be upscaled in order to be displayed "at all". No exceptions.

SD (480) content is most likely to get blurry when an external device is attempting to upscale it and does not have a high quality processing engine to do so, or is unable to upscale to 4K directly. If an external device is only capable of increasing the resolution part way and then feeds it to the TV, the TV has to upscale it "a second time." This scenario is the most common one to produce blurry content from 480 original content that would otherwise be reasonably clear.

Are you saying that some external devices that claim 4k video support can't output 4k for 480p sources? I'm glad the Shield has true 4k support, although Kodi picks up most of the slack.
Have you ever tried to use this TV with a computer? I have an old game (Panzer General II) that is low resolution. When I open it over HDMI, it shows up as a small rectangle in the middle of the screen - not upscaled, but still being displayed in a 1 to 1 pixel density area. I've tried to get this game to upscale so I can play it, but it won't and I don't know why. Actually this would be the best way to watch a 480p movie. Show it in a 1 to 1 scale, and sit really close to the TV. I understand plenty.
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post #19418 of 19437 Old 02-11-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tfid View Post
Are you saying that some external devices that claim 4k video support can't output 4k for 480p sources? I'm glad the Shield has true 4k support, although Kodi picks up most of the slack.
Have you ever tried to use this TV with a computer? I have an old game (Panzer General II) that is low resolution. When I open it over HDMI, it shows up as a small rectangle in the middle of the screen - not upscaled, but still being displayed in a 1 to 1 pixel density area. I've tried to get this game to upscale so I can play it, but it won't and I don't know why. Actually this would be the best way to watch a 480p movie. Show it in a 1 to 1 scale, and sit really close to the TV. I understand plenty.
What I'm saying relative to the external devices is that some of them do a terrible job of upscaling content from 480 to 2160. The 4K Fire Stick is a great example of this as it will output content in 2160, but its upscaling engine is terrible and can't handle more than one or two "steps" from lower resolutions. 4k is passed without being touched, 1080 is upscaled fine. 720 seems "ok", but 480 is flat-out terrible.

No, I haven't used this set with a computer. And, what you're describing actually reinforces the fact that you don't understand upscaling. In order to display an upscaled image, the image must first be SCALED to fill the entire viewing area (this is not happening with your computer input). This means that every individual pixel of the input must be mapped onto a "cluster" of pixels on the TV in a static ratio. For HD content (1080), that ratio is 1 activated pixel to three non-activated pixels. Those non-activated pixels must then be artificially created by the TV and "inserted" into the image. This entire process is upscaling.

Your computer example is not doing this at all. It is retaining a 1:1 mapping of activated pixels and leaving all of the "non-activated" pixels outside of the image area and is not creating any artificial content. So, there is no upscaling occurring. That would be a horrendous way to watch 480 content as it would mean that you would need larger and larger TV screens to watch a video any time the resolution capabilities of the TV increased.
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post #19419 of 19437 Old 02-11-2020, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by meburdick View Post
What I'm saying relative to the external devices is that some of them do a terrible job of upscaling content from 480 to 2160. The 4K Fire Stick is a great example of this as it will output content in 2160, but its upscaling engine is terrible and can't handle more than one or two "steps" from lower resolutions. 4k is passed without being touched, 1080 is upscaled fine. 720 seems "ok", but 480 is flat-out terrible.

No, I haven't used this set with a computer. And, what you're describing actually reinforces the fact that you don't understand upscaling. In order to display an upscaled image, the image must first be SCALED to fill the entire viewing area (this is not happening with your computer input). This means that every individual pixel of the input must be mapped onto a "cluster" of pixels on the TV in a static ratio. For HD content (1080), that ratio is 1 activated pixel to three non-activated pixels. Those non-activated pixels must then be artificially created by the TV and "inserted" into the image. This entire process is upscaling.

Your computer example is not doing this at all. It is retaining a 1:1 mapping of activated pixels and leaving all of the "non-activated" pixels outside of the image area and is not creating any artificial content. So, there is no upscaling occurring. That would be a horrendous way to watch 480 content as it would mean that you would need larger and larger TV screens to watch a video any time the resolution capabilities of the TV increased.

You didn't read my message. I wrote - " I have an old game (Panzer General II) that is low resolution. When I open it over HDMI, it shows up as a small rectangle in the middle of the screen - not upscaled, but still being displayed in a 1 to 1 pixel density area."


Did you not read the words "NOT UPSCALED" and "1 TO 1 PIXEL DENSITY AREA"?
I was giving an example of a low resolution image that is NOT upscaled and still gets displayed on a 4k screen.

So your statement of - "MUST be upscaled in order to be displayed "at all". No exceptions." - is not true.


You wouldn't need a larger and larger TV screen, you would just need to sit closer and closer to make it 'seem' larger.
480 to 2160 is quite the challenge for DSP upscaling algorithms to do well.
The only way to completely avoid such challenges is to watch it displayed at a 1:1 pixel ratio. A 480 line CRT would work well.
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post #19420 of 19437 Old 02-11-2020, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tfid View Post
You didn't read my message. I wrote - " I have an old game (Panzer General II) that is low resolution. When I open it over HDMI, it shows up as a small rectangle in the middle of the screen - not upscaled, but still being displayed in a 1 to 1 pixel density area."


Did you not read the words "NOT UPSCALED" and "1 TO 1 PIXEL DENSITY AREA"?
I was giving an example of a low resolution image that is NOT upscaled and still gets displayed on a 4k screen.

So your statement of - "MUST be upscaled in order to be displayed "at all". No exceptions." - is not true.


You wouldn't need a larger and larger TV screen, you would just need to sit closer and closer to make it 'seem' larger.
480 to 2160 is quite the challenge for DSP upscaling algorithms to do well.
The only way to completely avoid such challenges is to watch it displayed at a 1:1 pixel ratio. A 480 line CRT would work well.
Here are some words for YOU to read: Good luck in whatever it is you're attempting to do since you clearly already know it all. I won't bother responding to any more of your posts.
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post #19421 of 19437 Old 02-11-2020, 03:09 PM
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Here are some words for YOU to read: Good luck in whatever it is you're attempting to do since you clearly already know it all. I won't bother responding to any more of your posts.
Thank you. I'm not sure why you quoted my response to vapore0n. I just wanted to know where this 'upscaling area' of the settings were, and Groove93 reminded me that it's called the 'Clarity' menu. I still say fiddle with those settings if you want to, but I use an external device to do the upscaling, or just sit farther from the TV, and it will look better.
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Hi all - does anyone have experience with 4k HDR content through Comcast? First time I watched a 4k broadcast was the Super Bowl and I noticed what I would describe as a pulsating backlight (the tv would get a bit darker or brighter every second or so). There was another 4k HDR event tonight (dog show) and I saw the same thing.
I did some lite troubleshooting tonight and I have eliminated hdmi cables and my avr as the culprit (issue still happened with the xfinity box connected directly to the tv, using a different cable).

I did notice that the sound would cut out temporarily, and the video froze one or twice for a split second...not sure if this could be related at all.
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post #19423 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 08:00 AM
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Power On Question

I purchased my 900E in November of 2017 and it has performed without any problems since then. About a week ago it started having power-on issues. Here's what happens:

After being off for several hours, approximately 8 hours overnight, it won't power on. I press the power button on the Sony remote or the power button on the Roku Stick+ remote (Roku plugged into one of the HDMI ports) and the TV is unresponsive. The TV is plugged into a surge protector power strip and I have to turn off the power strip for several seconds and then turn it back on. After this "removal of power" from the TV it turns on normally, after going thru its boot up process, using either of the remotes.

Anyone have any ideas on what the problem might be?? I am, by no means an electrical engineer, but I'm thinking either a power supply that is going bad or perhaps the internal power supply board on its way out.

Any thoughts . . . Thanks.
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post #19424 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 08:02 AM
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I purchased my 900E in November of 2017 and it has performed without any problems since then. About a week ago it started having power-on issues. Here's what happens:

After being off for several hours, approximately 8 hours overnight, it won't power on. I press the power button on the Sony remote or the power button on the Roku Stick+ remote (Roku plugged into one of the HDMI ports) and the TV is unresponsive. The TV is plugged into a surge protector power strip and I have to turn off the power strip for several seconds and then turn it back on. After this "removal of power" from the TV it turns on normally, after going thru its boot up process, using either of the remotes.

Anyone have any ideas on what the problem might be?? I am, by no means an electrical engineer, but I'm thinking either a power supply that is going bad or perhaps the internal power supply board on its way out.

Any thoughts . . . Thanks.

Sounds like a bad power strip. Some hard fail, partial fail, or fault to on mode.

ETP
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post #19425 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 08:14 AM
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Sounds like a bad power strip. Some hard fail, partial fail, or fault to on mode.
@etp

I guess it could be a bad power strip but everything else that's plugged into the strip is acting normally. The Blu-Ray player, Wii game console, etc. that are plugged into the strip continue to receive power even when the TV won't turn on.

One thing I forgot to mention - I have a strip of LED's (to supply backlight to the TV) plugged into one of the USB ports on the back of the TV. When the TV won't power on, the LED's continue to be lit so the TV is at least being supplied stand-by power from the strip.
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post #19426 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 08:30 AM
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@etp



I guess it could be a bad power strip but everything else that's plugged into the strip is acting normally. The Blu-Ray player, Wii game console, etc. that are plugged into the strip continue to receive power even when the TV won't turn on.



One thing I forgot to mention - I have a strip of LED's (to supply backlight to the TV) plugged into one of the USB ports on the back of the TV. When the TV won't power on, the LED's continue to be lit so the TV is at least being supplied stand-by power from the strip.
Sounds like a power supply issue within the 900E itself to me. That sucks. Contact Sony?
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post #19427 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 08:32 AM
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@etp

I guess it could be a bad power strip but everything else that's plugged into the strip is acting normally. The Blu-Ray player, Wii game console, etc. that are plugged into the strip continue to receive power even when the TV won't turn on.

One thing I forgot to mention - I have a strip of LED's (to supply backlight to the TV) plugged into one of the USB ports on the back of the TV. When the TV won't power on, the LED's continue to be lit so the TV is at least being supplied stand-by power from the strip.
Irrelevant.

"Everything else" has a different power requirement, powers on differently, powers on at different times, and is plugged into a different socket. Change the strip and test. Better yet, get rid of it altogether and use a power filtering UPS to plug everything into.
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post #19428 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 10:25 AM
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Irrelevant.

"Everything else" has a different power requirement, powers on differently, powers on at different times, and is plugged into a different socket. Change the strip and test. Better yet, get rid of it altogether and use a power filtering UPS to plug everything into.
@meburdick . . . I'll try bypassing the power strip altogether and see if that helps. In the meantime does anyone else have any suggestions or ideas on what else I might try in order to narrow down the possibilities?
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post #19429 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 10:34 AM
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@etp

I guess it could be a bad power strip but everything else that's plugged into the strip is acting normally. The Blu-Ray player, Wii game console, etc. that are plugged into the strip continue to receive power even when the TV won't turn on.

One thing I forgot to mention - I have a strip of LED's (to supply backlight to the TV) plugged into one of the USB ports on the back of the TV. When the TV won't power on, the LED's continue to be lit so the TV is at least being supplied stand-by power from the strip.
While that may indicate the power strip is not at fault, eliminating the power strip from the power loop for your TV is the first thing to do because it is the easiest, fastest and cheapest action you can take.

The possibility that the MOV on your power strip is not allowing the power spike necessary for the TV to go from standby to operating should be eliminated as again it is the easiest and cheapest fix action that might work.

Always work from cheapest to most expensive when trouble shooting.

Layer 1 issues are usually the easiest to fix. Layer 1 = cables and power.

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Sony 75X900e/Sony STR-DN-1080, CS-3/CS-8/CS5
Sony X800 4K blu-ray player/Dish Hopper3
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post #19430 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 12:15 PM
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If its not the power strip, I would suggest doing a reset on the TV.
Maybe its android the one that is hosed and needs to be cleaned up.
Ive had my nvidia shield do the same. Unplugging the power for a few seconds usually fixes it.

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post #19431 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rjanice View Post
I purchased my 900E in November of 2017 and it has performed without any problems since then. About a week ago it started having power-on issues. Here's what happens:

After being off for several hours, approximately 8 hours overnight, it won't power on. I press the power button on the Sony remote or the power button on the Roku Stick+ remote (Roku plugged into one of the HDMI ports) and the TV is unresponsive. The TV is plugged into a surge protector power strip and I have to turn off the power strip for several seconds and then turn it back on. After this "removal of power" from the TV it turns on normally, after going thru its boot up process, using either of the remotes.

Anyone have any ideas on what the problem might be?? I am, by no means an electrical engineer, but I'm thinking either a power supply that is going bad or perhaps the internal power supply board on its way out.

Any thoughts . . . Thanks.
I'm pretty sure the tv does not power off when you "turn it off"...it goes into a standby mode (consuming less power I'm sure). Maybe it is the software locking up?
I think there is a power button on the tv...does that make the tv respond?
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post #19432 of 19437 Old 02-13-2020, 09:06 PM
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65" is 26 months old, 49" is 24 months old but it was open box. No issues with either one, both running the latest firmware. 49" is in the bedroom and doesn't get as much use, but 65" gets a mix of xFinity box, Xbox One X, and built in apps.

Xbox: Deezul
Sony XBR-65X900E, Sony XBR-49X900E
Go Jackets!
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post #19433 of 19437 Old 02-14-2020, 03:40 AM
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I'm pretty sure the tv does not power off when you "turn it off"...it goes into a standby mode (consuming less power I'm sure). Maybe it is the software locking up?
I think there is a power button on the tv...does that make the tv respond?
Thanks for the reply @NeedHelp123 . . . I tried using the power button on the back of the TV and unfortunately it doesn't help.
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post #19434 of 19437 Old 02-14-2020, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedHelp123 View Post
I'm pretty sure the tv does not power off when you "turn it off"...it goes into a standby mode (consuming less power I'm sure). Maybe it is the software locking up?
I think there is a power button on the tv...does that make the tv respond?
Thanks for the reply @NeedHelp123 . . . I tried using the power button on the back of the TV and unfortunately it doesn't help.
No worries - what happens if you hold the power button for 30 seconds or so (try both the remote and on the tv)? Under normal circumstances this will power down/ reboot the tv...if this works it works at least prevent you from having to unplug it to get it to respond again. If there are diagnostic logs somewhere accessible, there may be clues there if this is software/is related
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post #19435 of 19437 Old 02-14-2020, 10:35 AM
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@etp

I guess it could be a bad power strip but everything else that's plugged into the strip is acting normally. The Blu-Ray player, Wii game console, etc. that are plugged into the strip continue to receive power even when the TV won't turn on.

One thing I forgot to mention - I have a strip of LED's (to supply backlight to the TV) plugged into one of the USB ports on the back of the TV. When the TV won't power on, the LED's continue to be lit so the TV is at least being supplied stand-by power from the strip.
Try disconnecting the devices connected to the USB Inputs to the TV. You can find in Reddit threads similar issues where the TV needed to be AC power cycled to power on and it is related to USB devices plugged into the TV.
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post #19436 of 19437 Old 02-14-2020, 01:12 PM
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Try disconnecting the devices connected to the USB Inputs to the TV. You can find in Reddit threads similar issues where the TV needed to be AC power cycled to power on and it is related to USB devices plugged into the TV.
Thought I would give everyone a small update on my power problem.

First, I took @etp 's, @meburdick 's and @Cheddarhead 's suggestions and removed the power strip from the equation. Last night before going too bed I plugged the TV directly into a wall outlet. This morning, after the TV had been off for approximately7 hours, I tried turning it on and it worked! Granted, this was only one night but at least it turned on without issues. I'll give it a couple more days not being plugged into the power strip and see how it goes. If it continues to power on without problems I'll purchase a new power strip/surge protector since I don't really like just leaving the TV plugged directly into the wall outlet.

If the power problem returns I'll start following some of your other suggestions. My next step would be to do a hard reset of the TV as suggested by @vapore0n and then, if needed, unplugging the USB devices as suggested by @400MHz MAN . Being that both my wife and I are retired I would really like to see if I can get this fixed economically.

Again, I would like to thank EVERYONE who responded to my original question. I really appreciate all the help and suggestions. I'll keep you guys posted on what happens . . .
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post #19437 of 19437 Old 02-17-2020, 12:56 PM
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Hi all - does anyone have experience with 4k HDR content through Comcast? First time I watched a 4k broadcast was the Super Bowl and I noticed what I would describe as a pulsating backlight (the tv would get a bit darker or brighter every second or so). There was another 4k HDR event tonight (dog show) and I saw the same thing.

I've seen reports of similar issues with this tv but nothing specific to comcast. Unfortunately the Netflix/Prime Video apps through xfinity box) don't support 4k so I couldn't test that.

I don't have this pulsating from the TV apps or another hdmi source (ps4 pro). So I'm leaning toward this being something related to the cable box (I'll try a different hdmi cable and to bypass my AVR next time there is a 4k HDR broadcast...but I'm still concerned it could be a TV issue).

Has anyone else seen this? Thanks very much for any insight
Hi All - is someone at least able to confirm they have this set and have watched comcast/xfinity 4k hdr content (with or without issues)?
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