*OFFICIAL* 2017 Sony XBR-X940E - Owner's ONLY Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 314 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9391 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 11:59 AM
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Update to the streaming apps performance on this TV:

I have noticed that the performance of some apps has varied greatly over the past year as follows (I have done all firmware updates prior to 11/13/19):

Amazon Prime - transmits multi-channel audio, if 4K picture is letterboxed, the bars are gray instead of black. No HDR.

Netflix - transmits multi-channel sound and HDR/DV icon is triggered (no issues!)

Movies Anywhere - no multi-channel sound and no HDR

Vudu - transmits multi-channel sound and HDR/DV icon is triggered (no issues!)

Plex - transmits multi-channel sound and HDR/DV icon is triggered (one small issue is that it cannot transmit 7.1 multi-channel sound, only 5.1) (no major issues!)

Google Play - no multi-channel sound and no HDR

Disney+ - No multi-channel sound. HDR/DV icon is triggered.

This is pretty poor performance for so many apps to not work correctly.
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post #9392 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Thanks @ht guy ...I have that document printed out and every once in a while I muck around with the settings. It's a great reference to have.

And speaking of settings...for those that have ATV4k, do you keep the range match setting on or off with our 940E tv sets (this essentially turns Dolby Vision On or Off). Recently, I subscribed to Apple TV+ and watched the new SEE show with Jason Momoa. I found that the forest scenes in the first episode looked brighter and slightly more pleasing with the range match off (DV off). In this setup, instead of DV, the ATV4k was pushing HDR, and I subsequently changed my 940e to "custom' mode, which is the recommended setting for HDR signals. Also, as a general rule, I find that turning DV on our sets dims the screen somewhat.

In the ATV4k thread some people are saying that Apple didn't implement LLDV well, but others are blaming Sony. Thoughts?
With 'Range' off doesnt it just default to what you have the apple box set too? Like if you have it in SDR 4k it wont change to HDR? I have mine set to on but also prefer the HDR10 over DV too. Is your Apple TV set to 4k HDR all the time?

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post #9393 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by boosted330 View Post
With 'Range' off doesnt it just default to what you have the apple box set too? Like if you have it in SDR 4k it wont change to HDR? I have mine set to on but also prefer the HDR10 over DV too. Is your Apple TV set to 4k HDR all the time?
You're correct: turning off range match setting, most streaming media will revert to the native resolution the ATV4k has; and it my case it is 4k HDR.

What I don't get is how LLDV as implemented by ATV4k and Sony produces somewhat a lackluster result. Given the DV specs, it should win hands down given its addition of dynamic metadata to the core HDR image package and the 12-bit colour mastering. In other words, the DV metadata should instruct the TV to change its brightness and colour gamut on a scene-by-scene and frame-by-frame basis.

I think some 940E owners here also have LG OLEDs TV sets...can you please comment if the LGs also have this issue whereby DV is slightly dimmer than their HDR counterparts? In my setup, the delta isn't significant like night vs. day, but it is noticeable enough that my family mentioned it...

Also, as another data point, Narcos Mexico, which Netflix streams it in DV, was completely unwatchable via the native streaming app when it came out last year...ATV4k improved upon that, but it still doesn't seem to surpass HDR (at least in my opinion and setup).
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post #9394 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 03:44 PM
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You're correct: turning off range match setting, most streaming media will revert to the native resolution the ATV4k has; and it my case it is 4k HDR.

What I don't get is how LLDV as implemented by ATV4k and Sony produces somewhat a lackluster result. Given the DV specs, it should win hands down given its addition of dynamic metadata to the core HDR image package and the 12-bit colour mastering. In other words, the DV metadata should instruct the TV to change its brightness and colour gamut on a scene-by-scene and frame-by-frame basis.

I think some 940E owners here also have LG OLEDs TV sets...can you please comment if the LGs also have this issue whereby DV is slightly dimmer than their HDR counterparts? In my setup, the delta isn't significant like night vs. day, but it is noticeable enough that my family mentioned it...

Also, as another data point, Narcos Mexico, which Netflix streams it in DV, was completely unwatchable via the native streaming app when it came out last year...ATV4k improved upon that, but it still doesn't seem to surpass HDR (at least in my opinion and setup).
On my LG B6 I watched all of the Narcos seasons on it with Dolby vision and never found it unwatchable or dim. This is the first TV where I noticed DV was dim. On my LG I cannot tell you if its in DV or HDR10 because to my eyes they look the same (I use the same settings for both and TV is not calibrated). On the Sony I can tell just by switching between DV and HDR10 and its a big difference.

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post #9395 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Thanks @ht guy ...I have that document printed out and every once in a while I muck around with the settings. It's a great reference to have.

And speaking of settings...for those that have ATV4k, do you keep the range match setting on or off with our 940E tv sets (this essentially turns Dolby Vision On or Off). Recently, I subscribed to Apple TV+ and watched the new SEE show with Jason Momoa. I found that the forest scenes in the first episode looked brighter and slightly more pleasing with the range match off (DV off). In this setup, instead of DV, the ATV4k was pushing HDR, and I subsequently changed my 940e to "custom' mode, which is the recommended setting for HDR signals. Also, as a general rule, I find that turning DV on our sets dims the screen somewhat.

In the ATV4k thread some people are saying that Apple didn't implement LLDV well, but others are blaming Sony. Thoughts?
I have my ATV set to 4K SDR match/range on. Didn't know (or didn't remember) that custom was the recommended HDR setting. I use cinema pro. What other settings do you use with custom? Yeah, I have noticed some DV content dims the screen a bit.

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post #9396 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by boosted330 View Post
On my LG B6 I watched all of the Narcos seasons on it with Dolby vision and never found it unwatchable or dim. This is the first TV where I noticed DV was dim. On my LG I cannot tell you if its in DV or HDR10 because to my eyes they look the same (I use the same settings for both and TV is not calibrated). On the Sony I can tell just by switching between DV and HDR10 and its a big difference.
Thanks for your input @boosted330 ! So this points to the Low Latency Dolby Vision profile that's especially implemented for Sony TVs. What this means to all Sony TV users is that:

- most, if not all, video processing is performed @ source
- unlike HDR, LLDV is restricted just one single picture mode

Dolby Vision's greatest advantage is moot for Sony TVs then: that it can dynamically map video content to the capabilities of a given panel, and of course, that's limiting when video processing is performed by on the source device.

So is our lesson that, given @boosted330 experience that DV and HDR look the same on his LG OLED, for external sources like ATV4k connected to a Sony display, we should disable range matching thus disabling LLDV?
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post #9397 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 04:32 PM
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I have my ATV set to 4K SDR match/range on. Didn't know (or didn't remember) that custom was the recommended HDR setting. I use cinema pro. What other settings do you use with custom? Yeah, I have noticed some DV content dims the screen a bit.
Off the top of my head, for HDR content like Jack Ryan on Amazon, the 2 major settings that make the difference are:

1. Custom Picture Mode - it significantly brightens and makes more vivid
2. Live Color should be also be HIGH

For regular 1080p video feeds, custom crushes everything is overly bright, and thus Cinema Pro is the better choice.

@Waboman : give Custom Picture Mode and High Live Colour a try with HDR content - you'll be pleasantly surprised how much better your picture is.
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post #9398 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 04:40 PM
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On my LG I cannot tell you if its in DV or HDR10 because to my eyes they look the same (I use the same settings for both and TV is not calibrated).
So there is hope that we won't lose much by disabling LLDV on our Sony TVs then...if DV was that much superior given the specs, even on a properly implemented DV profile (i.e. NOT Sony) it should be superlative vs. the 'lowly' HDR technology.

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On the Sony I can tell just by switching between DV and HDR10 and its a big difference.
I think every Sony TV owner can attest to this...

P.S. Range Match setting is officially OFF on my ATV4k.
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post #9399 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Off the top of my head, for HDR content like Jack Ryan on Amazon, the 2 major settings that make the difference are:

1. Custom Picture Mode - it significantly brightens and makes more vivid
2. Live Color should be also be HIGH

For regular 1080p video feeds, custom crushes everything is overly bright, and thus Cinema Pro is the better choice.

@Waboman : give Custom Picture Mode and High Live Colour a try with HDR content - you'll be pleasantly surprised how much better your picture is.
Sounds good. Looking forward to trying it out tonight. Do you mess with the gamma at all? Or leave it at0?

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post #9400 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Off the top of my head, for HDR content like Jack Ryan on Amazon, the 2 major settings that make the difference are:

1. Custom Picture Mode - it significantly brightens and makes more vivid
2. Live Color should be also be HIGH

For regular 1080p video feeds, custom crushes everything is overly bright, and thus Cinema Pro is the better choice.

@Waboman : give Custom Picture Mode and High Live Colour a try with HDR content - you'll be pleasantly surprised how much better your picture is.
Sounds good. Looking forward to trying it out tonight. Do you mess with the gamma at all? Or leave it at0?
It depends on the HDR quality (guess that’s a thing). Some HDR feeds are superb and gamma is at 0, some are still dark and bump it a notch or two...
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post #9401 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 06:44 PM
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*OFFICIAL* 2017 Sony XBR-X940E - Owner's ONLY Thread (No Price Talk)

Disney Plus, anyone only getting stereo sound through the TV app? Netflix and amazon prime without issue. It seems like the TV overrides the ARC/AVR setup and the TV is using the front two speakers(controlled by the actual TV remote) not the universal remote





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post #9402 of 9464 Old 11-13-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
You're correct: turning off range match setting, most streaming media will revert to the native resolution the ATV4k has; and it my case it is 4k HDR.

What I don't get is how LLDV as implemented by ATV4k and Sony produces somewhat a lackluster result. Given the DV specs, it should win hands down given its addition of dynamic metadata to the core HDR image package and the 12-bit colour mastering. In other words, the DV metadata should instruct the TV to change its brightness and colour gamut on a scene-by-scene and frame-by-frame basis.

I think some 940E owners here also have LG OLEDs TV sets...can you please comment if the LGs also have this issue whereby DV is slightly dimmer than their HDR counterparts? In my setup, the delta isn't significant like night vs. day, but it is noticeable enough that my family mentioned it...

Also, as another data point, Narcos Mexico, which Netflix streams it in DV, was completely unwatchable via the native streaming app when it came out last year...ATV4k improved upon that, but it still doesn't seem to surpass HDR (at least in my opinion and setup).



So are you only seeing this behavior when using your ATV4K?

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post #9403 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 12:59 AM
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It depends on the HDR quality (guess that’s a thing). Some HDR feeds are superb and gamma is at 0, some are still dark and bump it a notch or two...
Custom with live color high really does add sone pop. I thought why not try it with DV? So I set DV to live color high. Haven’t had too much time to play with it but did watch the beginning of The Force Awakens and it looked good. DV has it turned off by default. Wondering if there’s a downside to using it with DV?

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post #9404 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 10:36 AM
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Disney Plus, anyone only getting stereo sound through the TV app? Netflix and amazon prime without issue. It seems like the TV overrides the ARC/AVR setup and the TV is using the front two speakers(controlled by the actual TV remote) not the universal remote





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In the Disney+ Thread people are saying they have issues getting Atmos or Surround on some devices / setups. Could be on their end not yours.

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post #9405 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 11:07 AM
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keep in mind Dolby vision uses metadata and won't brighten the entire image like HDR which treats the entire screen as specral highlight. Toy story 4 is a beautiful example of DV done right
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post #9406 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 01:05 PM
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keep in mind Dolby vision uses metadata and won't brighten the entire image like HDR which treats the entire screen as specral highlight. Toy story 4 is a beautiful example of DV done right
In your Toy Story 4 example, what was your source? iTunes via ATV4k, UHD BD disc or other?
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post #9407 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 01:08 PM
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In the Disney+ Thread people are saying they have issues getting Atmos or Surround on some devices / setups. Could be on their end not yours.
Some folks on the ATV4k thread complained that Disney+ Atmos isn't working well...so don't think it's the delivery method/media, rather it's the Disney+ application itself.
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post #9408 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 01:32 PM
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In your Toy Story 4 example, what was your source? iTunes via ATV4k, UHD BD disc or other?
4k UHD Disc via an Oppo 203 outputting source direct.
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post #9409 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 01:35 PM
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Custom with live color high really does add sone pop. I thought why not try it with DV? So I set DV to live color high. Haven’t had too much time to play with it but did watch the beginning of The Force Awakens and it looked good. DV has it turned off by default. Wondering if there’s a downside to using it with DV?
I reckon there is no downside on using High Live Colour on DV incoming signals; Live Colour settings have less of an impact on DV compared to HDR signals - colours are incrementally warmer, as expected, but the screen doesn't brighten like it does with HDR.

Still, I wish that Sony's LLDV profile would allow us to use multiple Picture Models akin to HDR...once DV kicks in, there are limited picture adjustments that can be made.
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post #9410 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 01:45 PM
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4k UHD Disc via an Oppo 203 outputting source direct.
Yeah, despite great strides gained in the last years, no streaming service can compete with the Audio or Video quality of a physical disc. Especially if the disc spinner happens to be the superlative Oppo 203.

I have 203's twice removed cousin, Cambridge Audio CXUHD; the only (DV + HDR) physical discs that I have is the Matrix Trilogy, but that's like 20 yrs old, so colours look washed out...looks like I need to acquire some DV discs.

As an interesting experiment, can you turn off DV on your Oppo and replay Toy Story 4 in HDR? How does TS4 compare HDR vs. DV on your 940E?
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post #9411 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 02:05 PM
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Yeah, despite great strides gained in the last years, no streaming service can compete with the Audio or Video quality of a physical disc. Especially if the disc spinner happens to be the superlative Oppo 203.

I have 203's twice removed cousin, Cambridge Audio CXUHD; the only (DV + HDR) physical discs that I have is the Matrix Trilogy, but that's like 20 yrs old, so colours look washed out...looks like I need to acquire some DV discs.

As an interesting experiment, can you turn off DV on your Oppo and replay Toy Story 4 in HDR? How does TS4 compare HDR vs. DV on your 940E?
I'll give it a go but from the disc I've rewatched when we got DV on our sets the one thing I've noticed is more detail in the overall image including better color saturation and gradation with in those colors and when done right a few examples like Tomb Raider, Shazzam, Transformers and Despicable Me and show off some exquisite shadow detail that can get lost with HDR due to just flat brightening the whole screen to display specral high lights. I'll go for DV if the source is done right every time as the 940e is just the best of both worlds for contrast,blacks and brights! On a side note I replaced my 2017 nvidia Shield with the 2019 Pro and just so happened to stream Toy Story 4 for the grand kids yet again! got say the DV looked pretty darn good and would need to a/b to pickout the gains and losses from the disc
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post #9412 of 9464 Old 11-14-2019, 02:34 PM
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I'll give it a go but from the disc I've rewatched when we got DV on our sets the one thing I've noticed is more detail in the overall image including better color saturation and gradation with in those colors and when done right a few examples like Tomb Raider, Shazzam, Transformers and Despicable Me and show off some exquisite shadow detail that can get lost with HDR due to just flat brightening the whole screen to display specral high lights. I'll go for DV if the source is done right every time as the 940e is just the best of both worlds for contrast,blacks and brights! On a side note I replaced my 2017 nvidia Shield with the 2019 Pro and just so happened to stream Toy Story 4 for the grand kids yet again! got say the DV looked pretty darn good and would need to a/b to pickout the gains and losses from the disc
Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.

My primary 4k, HDR, DV source is the ATV4k, and the only way to compare how well that does is by using the innate TV's streaming apps. And I think ATV wins hands down.

So after all that, perhaps I stand corrected w.r.t. LLDV? I just did a test: with my ATV4k's resolution set to 4k HDR, I re-watched few scenes of the new SEE show on Apple TV+ (by the by, for fans of Khal Drogo/Jason Momoa...this is another bad ass in a different SciFi world setting ) . Then flipping between range match setting ON vs. OFF (basically turning DV on or off) it was sort of difficult to discern between the 2.

What gives? Anyone else notice Dolby Vision vs. HDR picture difference on their (ATV4k + 940E) setup?

Must be the Full Moon syndrome and magnetic pole interference...
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post #9413 of 9464 Old 11-15-2019, 05:39 AM
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Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.

My primary 4k, HDR, DV source is the ATV4k, and the only way to compare how well that does is by using the innate TV's streaming apps. And I think ATV wins hands down.

So after all that, perhaps I stand corrected w.r.t. LLDV? I just did a test: with my ATV4k's resolution set to 4k HDR, I re-watched few scenes of the new SEE show on Apple TV+ (by the by, for fans of Khal Drogo/Jason Momoa...this is another bad ass in a different SciFi world setting ) . Then flipping between range match setting ON vs. OFF (basically turning DV on or off) it was sort of difficult to discern between the 2.

What gives? Anyone else notice Dolby Vision vs. HDR picture difference on their (ATV4k + 940E) setup?

Must be the Full Moon syndrome and magnetic pole interference...
Interesting! Thanks for the heads up on the show I planed on checking it out but will put on the front of my must watch list
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post #9414 of 9464 Old 11-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Had my 940e for over a year now and I love it.

Prime show's are terrific PQ.

The only other I considered was a 77" oled but this TV I don't have to worry about burn in.

If this TV is behind PQ to a oled how far behind?
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post #9415 of 9464 Old 11-16-2019, 06:56 PM
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Recently, my Disney+ app stopped transmitting in Dolby Vision, which is bizarre.
Dolby Vision was working up until yesterday. I noticed that the picture looked grainy and the colors looked off. I went to check, and sure enough. No HDR or Dolby Vision. Any ideas? I already tried uninstalling and reinstalling.

I also have an Apple TV 4K and Xbox One X, but as we all know, Dolby Vision looks best from the built-in apps of this set, due to external Dolby Vision sources looking dark and dull.
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post #9416 of 9464 Old 11-16-2019, 07:46 PM
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What does Custom do differently than Cinema Pro for HDR behind the scenes if all other settings are matched?

Regarding DV vs HDR10, I find any DV content (both streaming and disc based) much more impressive on the TV than HDR10 content. The caveat is with light being controlled in the room (nearly dark at a minimum).

Last edited by BigCoolJesus; 11-17-2019 at 04:00 AM.
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post #9417 of 9464 Old 11-17-2019, 08:06 AM
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Had my 940e for over a year now and I love it.

Prime show's are terrific PQ.

The only other I considered was a 77" oled but this TV I don't have to worry about burn in.

If this TV is behind PQ to a oled how far behind?
Not really. It has great black/near black performance and gets brighter than OLED, especially with HDR or DV material. IMO, the only weakness of my 940E is the off-axis viewing, which shifts color and raises black levels considerably. OLED is superior on this front.
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post #9418 of 9464 Old 11-17-2019, 08:12 AM
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Not really. It has great black/near black performance and gets brighter than OLED, especially with HDR or DV material. IMO, the only weakness of my 940E is the off-axis viewing, which shifts color and raises black levels considerably. OLED is superior on this front.
I've had several LCD/Led displays and the 940e is by far the best off axis one I've owned.
If this is the only issue I made the right choice over a 77" oled at half the price.
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These are just my opinions.
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post #9419 of 9464 Old 11-17-2019, 11:22 AM
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So for kicks, I changed my picture mode from Cinema Pro to Custom and using the same settings.....no discernible difference at all. Which is what I expected as the last time I ever calibrated my x940e, Cinema Pro had a max nits of ~1135, about the reported limit of the x940e on a 10% window.
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post #9420 of 9464 Old 11-17-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
What does Custom do differently than Cinema Pro for HDR behind the scenes if all other settings are matched?

Regarding DV vs HDR10, I find any DV content (both streaming and disc based) much more impressive on the TV than HDR10 content. The caveat is with light being controlled in the room (nearly dark at a minimum).
Use HDR on this set as DV is dimmer.. Use "custom" with Live Color on high and this set is very bright!! Have a ATV4K/Roku Ultra/ and a 2019 Shield TV Pro hooked up to mine through AVR. I have reviewed multiple scenarios across all devices and HDR with the above is the answer.
Gerry

Sony XBR 75X940E - Sony STR-DH790 ATMOS - Sony UBP-X700 UHD BD Player - ATV 4K - 2019 Shield TV Pro
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