*OFFICIAL* 2017 Sony XBR-X940E - Owner's ONLY Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1471 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
I agree with CP and alexanderg823. Above a certain PQ threshold (which IMO all of the late model FALD TVs meet or exceed), size trumps what are ultimately modest differences in PQ. OLEDs have better blacks. FALD LCDs are brighter. If you watch sci-fi in a cave all the time then maybe you lean OLED. Otherwise you probably lean FALD LCD. But that's at the same screen size. IMHO a 10" size difference here more than trumps the PQ difference even if you watch sci-fi in a cave. We're talking about a 33% larger screen area from 65->75" and that's a LOT no matter what. At the PQ of a late model FALD LCD? To me it's a no brainer.
You're just wrong. Coming from somebody who owns both techs, OLEDs are betting looking TVs in more than just a cave and watching more than just sci-fi content. You need to get a grip... You've been reading too many imagic articles. There's a reason OLEDs have won the past 2 or 3 Value Electronic Shootouts. And it's not because all they're showing is sci-fi content in a cave....
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post #1472 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
You're just wrong. Coming from somebody who owns both techs, OLEDs are betting looking TVs in more than just a cave and watching more than just sci-fi content. You need to get a grip... You've been reading too many imagic articles. There's a reason OLEDs have won the past 2 or 3 Value Electronic Shootouts. And it's not because all they're showing is sci-fi content in a cave....
Douchey post is douchey

I own an LG OLED and a Samsung FALD, both ISF calibrated. The FALD is bigger and provides a *far* more enjoyable overall viewing experience, especially with HDR material but with just about everything else too. Every single person I've shown the TVs to - and I'm talking scores of people over the course of months - agree hands down.

As for the VE shootouts, you're talking about 9/10th performance here. Whether you like it or not, the difference are modest. *Every* display in the shootout is better than 99% of TVs sold.

Size trumps all above a certain PQ quality. I know because I see it every day in my home. Full stop.

Thanks for playing though

Happy to cede the final word to you as an insistence upon having it is a sure sign of a feeble mind.
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post #1473 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post


I own an LG OLED and a Samsung FALD, both ISF calibrated. .


88" FTW

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post #1474 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 05:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
You're just wrong. Coming from somebody who owns both techs, OLEDs are betting looking TVs in more than just a cave and watching more than just sci-fi content. You need to get a grip... You've been reading too many imagic articles. There's a reason OLEDs have won the past 2 or 3 Value Electronic Shootouts. And it's not because all they're showing is sci-fi content in a cave....
Douchey post is douchey

I own an LG OLED and a Samsung FALD, both ISF calibrated. The FALD is bigger and provides a *far* more enjoyable overall viewing experience, especially with HDR material but with just about everything else too. Every single person I've shown the TVs to - and I'm talking scores of people over the course of months - agree hands down.

As for the VE shootouts, you're talking about 9/10th performance here. Whether you like it or not, the difference are modest. *Every* display in the shootout is better than 99% of TVs sold.

Size trumps all above a certain PQ quality. I know because I see it every day in my home. Full stop.

Thanks for playing though

Happy to cede the final word to you as an insistence upon having it is a sure sign of a feeble mind.
Yep, there's no doubt OLED is "better", but even then there's still concessions such as ABL which is almost if not more immersion breaking than blooming.

But like you said we're talking 9/10 vs 10/10 picture quality here. The size increase just more than makes up for the 1 point lower in PQ. I mean a freaking 75 inch is just such a beauty to watch stuff on.

Also helps with hdr being dim, it's much easier to see lower light details on a bigger screen.
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post #1475 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 06:20 PM
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post #1476 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
88" FTW

If we're going to play that game back at ya...this TV isn't my "main entertainment setup." 150" Sony 3D Projector. I'm actually typing on it as we speak lol.

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post #1477 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 07:51 PM
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I can't decide if I like using Standard or Custom. The colors are pretty different between the two. I can't do Cinema Pro so I usually debate between Custom and Standard. I think like Custom with regular TV and standard for sports.

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post #1478 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bigballermike99 View Post
Great sounding review but the motion blur worries me.

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post #1479 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Great sounding review but the motion blur worries me.
I use it day to day it's fine. I'm watching the NBA Finals on it currently. I also watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on this TV. It's a fast moving puck and a slower moving basketball. There's no issues from my standpoint.

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post #1480 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post
I use it day to day it's fine. I'm watching the NBA Finals on it currently. I also watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on this TV. It's a fast moving puck and a slower moving basketball. There's no issues from my standpoint.
That's good to hear. So much has been said about motion blur on this set, when is it a problem?

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post #1481 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 09:41 PM
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That's good to hear. So much has been said about motion blur on this set, when is it a problem?
I used to notice motion blur occasionally on my 940D but so far so good with the 940E . The one exception was when I was looking for it, watching a few Family Guy episodes I did see a hint of it with Brian's nose, it wasn't bad at all but it was there. My wife couldn't see what I was talking about so I took a picture to show her. I hesitate to show the picture because I think it makes it look worse than it really is but here it is.

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post #1482 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 10:21 PM
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I used to notice motion blur occasionally on my 940D but so far so good with the 940E . The one exception was when I was looking for it, watching a few Family Guy episodes I did see a hint of it with Brian's nose, it wasn't bad at all but it was there. My wife couldn't see what I was talking about so I took a picture to show her. I hesitate to show the picture because I think it makes it look worse than it really is but here it is.

The motion blur is definitely present in animation, attached is another Family Guy pic:
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post #1483 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by drock0221 View Post
I can't decide if I like using Standard or Custom. The colors are pretty different between the two. I can't do Cinema Pro so I usually debate between Custom and Standard. I think like Custom with regular TV and standard for sports.

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You can customize each preset to your preferences you know. Look back in this thread for published user settings. One may suit you just fine.
I use Custom, set to my calibration, for cable and Cinema Pro with my settings adjustments for 4K HDR BD and streaming 4K.

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post #1484 of 9416 Old 06-07-2017, 11:00 PM
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The motion blur is definitely present in animation, attached is another Family Guy pic:
Has anyone considered the blur may be in the source? Animation is a different beast from live or recorded programs. It is drawn/computer generated frame by frame by people. Some games are much worst than others (for motion blur) when displayed on the same TV. This may be due to some being drawn @ 30fps and produced @ 60.

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post #1485 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 02:14 AM
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Great sounding review but the motion blur worries me.
I have had a 55W829b and a 75X8505C. The first one was fast and had almost no blur. The second one had really long trails when dark objects moved passed a bright background. Even visible in movies and series. It was really anoying. Especially with the movie Gamer.
I have tested the same movie with the 75X940E and the performance is now good. I could not see clear trails.

When i do the motion blur test with the blocks i do see a trail its about 170-180 pixels with a speed of 960 pixels per second. But the 850C leaves a 4x longer trail. That said good TV's will only trail 40-60 pixels. So yeah motion performance can be better compared to other TV's. But i have yet to find blur / trails when watching movies or series. I have not seen that yet on the 940E and i did see it quite ofthen with the 850C.
I was worried at first. But its such a improvement over my old tv that im very happy. I have yet to see it blur / or show trails when viewing real content.

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That's good to hear. So much has been said about motion blur on this set, when is it a problem?
As with a lot of things it depends on who you ask. Some will see vertical banding on a screen when others wont. Some will see clouding others wont. Some can see soap opera others wont. Some can see the difference between 90-120Hz others dont see the difference between 60 and 144. So its very personal.
I tend to see all the things listed above and am above average picky. But so far motion has bin no issue for me. But i bet there are some people out there who can see the difference.

Best way is to test it yourself. Find a movie with fast moving dark objects on light backgrounds bring your laptop to the store and ask if you can test it.

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The motion blur is definitely present in animation, attached is another Family Guy pic:
This i a nice example. Pure white on color/darker backgrounds. I also watch a episode to night to see if i find it disturbing. On pictures these things look worse then they are when in motion. But i agree this would be visible.
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post #1486 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by UHD AV View Post
Has anyone considered the blur may be in the source? Animation is a different beast from live or recorded programs. It is drawn/computer generated frame by frame by people. Some games are much worst than others (for motion blur) when displayed on the same TV. This may be due to some being drawn @ 30fps and produced @ 60.
Also quite possible.
You will also see that the blur will reduce when you turn on the Motion flow. When you have a setting where the screen will display 60FPS (or more. i think on smooth it will do 120FPS but i dont know for sure) the blur will be reduced quite a bit but you will see the SOAP opera effect. If i use motion flow its mostly on Custom, Smoothness 3 and Low setting. I think thats about 30FPS. Just to take the edge of some stutters that is alway's precieved when i watch 24fps movies. And SOAP opera effect is minimal. Also almost no calculation errors that show up as stutters/glitches.

It was also quite noticeable when i ran my PC on 30Hz on the TV watching a movie or ran it at 60Hz. The trailing on the 850C reduced quite a bit when it was running at 60Hz. Would have bin nice if we could run 120Hz to bad this tv has no HDMI 2.1
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post #1487 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 04:51 AM
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88" FTW

Funny coming from someone who doesn't have an 88"...

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post #1488 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
Douchey post is douchey

I own an LG OLED and a Samsung FALD, both ISF calibrated. The FALD is bigger and provides a *far* more enjoyable overall viewing experience, especially with HDR material but with just about everything else too. Every single person I've shown the TVs to - and I'm talking scores of people over the course of months - agree hands down.

As for the VE shootouts, you're talking about 9/10th performance here. Whether you like it or not, the difference are modest. *Every* display in the shootout is better than 99% of TVs sold.

Size trumps all above a certain PQ quality. I know because I see it every day in my home. Full stop.

Thanks for playing though

Happy to cede the final word to you as an insistence upon having it is a sure sign of a feeble mind.
Not worried about the last word. Your post is a hard read and I don't even know how to respond. I'll leave all alone.

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post #1489 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 05:02 AM
 
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This review is fake news. No hard numbers, just things recycled from rtings.
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post #1490 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 05:07 AM
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What exactly does enhanced mode do vs standard? I have an Oppo 203 that is passing 4K HDR through AVR to the Sony in standard mode without issue. If I set it to enhanced mode the Oppo doesn't display.


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post #1491 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 05:15 AM
 
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What exactly does enhanced mode do vs standard? I have an Oppo 203 that is passing 4K HDR through AVR to the Sony in standard mode without issue. If I set it to enhanced mode the Oppo doesn't display.


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Enahcned enables 4khdr60fps. Plug your oppo into HDMI 2 or 3 with enhanced.
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post #1492 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 08:30 AM
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Enahcned enables 4khdr60fps. Plug your oppo into HDMI 2 or 3 with enhanced.


I'll try it again tonight. Currently the Oppo runs into the Marantz which runs into HDMI 2. Whenever I've tried enhanced mode I can't get the Oppo to work. It displays "no signal " if I'm remembering correctly. Resolves when I go to standard. In standard mode I get 4K HDR. Will try again.


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post #1493 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 09:23 AM
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Has anyone tried the HDR upscaling (Object Based HDR Remaster)? I like the HDR+ features on the samsungs but I'm considering the Sony as a replacement and would love to know if they're comparable. Any pictures on and off would be great too.

Thanks.
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post #1494 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 09:38 AM
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Yep, there's no doubt OLED is "better", but even then there's still concessions such as ABL which is almost if not more immersion breaking than blooming.
But like you said we're talking 9/10 vs 10/10 picture quality here. The size increase just more than makes up for the 1 point lower in PQ. I mean a freaking 75 inch is just such a beauty to watch stuff on.
Also helps with hdr being dim, it's much easier to see lower light details on a bigger screen.
This is a 940E thread, the 940E only comes in 75", I would gladly take a 940E, JVC RS520U, screen, and Nice surround sound for the same price as the comparable OLED in the 75" class. .

--Not to mention the Z9D to many is tied with OLED.........and far less in the 75" class compared to OLED.

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post #1495 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 11:36 AM
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Has anyone tried the HDR upscaling (Object Based HDR Remaster)? I like the HDR+ features on the samsungs but I'm considering the Sony as a replacement and would love to know if they're comparable. Any pictures on and off would be great too.

Thanks.
I think Object Based HDR Remaster is the Adv Contrast Enhancer control. Here's some testing I did with it on my z9. The 940e should be the same

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You are probably on to something with adv. contrast enhancer.... I watched a few scenes this morning from various SDR content and flipped between off and high to see what the effect could be. I had trouble finding a scene where enabling it was noticeably detrimental to the picture, and in some cases it did add an extra bit of perceived dimensionality to things. "High" does lend a somewhat processed look to the overall picture however.

Here's an example from Skyfall. check out the mountainside behind bond, some of the details in the clouds, and to an extent the definition in the trees in front of bonds face. both pics were taken w/ my iPhone 7 with AF/Exposure locked so not super scientific but it should get the point across:

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I "knew" that stuff like black adjust and advanced contrast enhancer HAD to have downsides...... so I went and found them

Here's an imgur gallery with some pictures I took of Star Trek Beyond UHD, played from my oppo203
http://imgur.com/a/knuI7

The first image is the extended info, showing the movie was mastered at 1000nit peak, and 0.005nit black level. Interesting. For some reason planet earth ii actually does not have this mastering data reported. I'll also just add that in terms of HDR WOW factor, planet earth ii is on another level from Star Trek Beyond. The improvement over the HD Bluray in Star Trek is noticeable, but planet earth ii had my jaw on the floor the entire time in its HDR presentation...

The set of images in the gallery above is from a little bit into chapter 5, 44:20 through 44:30. The first set is at 44:25 and the second set is a few seconds later.
Exposure and focus were locked for all but the last image, and I purposely overexposed the images to try and illustrate the differences. Pics taken w/ my iPhone 7.

1st image - Black adjust Off, ACE Off - lets consider this, "As intended"

2nd image (exposure/focus lock from 1st) - Black adjust High, ACE Off - the difference may not have come through in the pictures, but setting black adjust to high sharpened the transitions to black a little bit, but didn't really lower black levels overall. Light transitions on Simon Pegg's red outfit are a little sharper. Interesting.

3rd image (ae/af lock from first) - Black Adjust OFF, ACE High - here overall black levels of the shadows are reduced, the shadows in the upper right quadrant are much darker and detail in the doorframe above the ramp is harder to see.

4th image - black adj low, ace low - looks pretty good. Similar reduction in black levels from ACE high. Overall detail seems to remain intact. Pleasing picture.

5th image - black adj off, ace off - this is from a few seconds later when the woman leaves the room and walks up the ramp and through the hallway. Its a dark scene overall. With black adj and ace off this scene has a nice look to it as even though its really dark, you can see enough details that you get an immersive 3d feel of walking through the hallway with her.

6th image - black adj low, ace low - this is where the problems start. Much of the detail of the doorframe and hallways is lost (ace is doing this, black adj does almost nothing in this frame), some of the womans outfit is darker and harder to make out, but importantly in motion you lose the immersive effect as she goes through the hallway it looks like she is just walking away into darkness. Overall black levels are much darker, and the surrounding details in the scene are just a hair brighter than the black bars on top and bottom. An, "oled" like picture if you will

7th image - same as above but I let my iPhone do auto focus and auto exposure on this image to see if it might capture the overall lower light level coming from the TV better. It does seem to, and the picture shows a more representative level of shadow detail etc which is actually being reproduced.


So overall ACE and Black Adj seem like an interesting and/or good idea based on Sjchmura comments about Horizon Zero Dawn and other titles, my pics of Skyfall, and just overall impressions. But unfortunately its not a free lunch and I do hate to lose shadow detail since the z9 does such an excellent job of it.

One last comment, this movie has a ton of film grain in it. Setting smooth gradation to low does a good job of making it so that you never see banding. Setting to high smooths out and smear a lot of the film grain so if you hate grainy movies maybe try a higher smooth gradation setting and see if you like it.
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post #1496 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 12:14 PM
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I think Object Based HDR Remaster is the Adv Contrast Enhancer control. Here's some testing I did with it on my z9. The 940e should be the same
Thanks a lot mate. If that is it (ACE) then it works quite different to the Samsung implementation which works quite well on some SDR material. It's surprising Sony would have this in their advertising blurb and keep it exclusive to the X1 Extreme processors yet not have an explicit way to enable it.

Edit: I'm not so sure it is...on their website they have three different contrast enhancement tweaks:

Dynamic Contrast Enhancer
Object-based HDR remaster
X-tended Dynamic Range™ PRO

This suggests the Object-based HDR remaster might be a different feature...

Last edited by xsnv; 06-08-2017 at 12:18 PM.
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post #1497 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 12:25 PM
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Thanks a lot mate. If that is it (ACE) then it works quite different to the Samsung implementation which works quite well on some SDR material. It's surprising Sony would have this in their advertising blurb and keep it exclusive to the X1 Extreme processors yet not have an explicit way to enable it.

Edit: I'm not so sure it is...on their website they have three different contrast enhancement tweaks:

Dynamic Contrast Enhancer
Object-based HDR remaster
X-tended Dynamic Range™ PRO

This suggests the Object-based HDR remaster might be a different feature...
dynamic contrast enhancer might be the "black adjust" control. It's hard to say, there is some overlap. XDR is definitely a dynamic contrast function as well.
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post #1498 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 12:26 PM
 
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i remember seeing alot of promotional material about the X1E and object based remaster stating, and i'm paraphrasing here, that sony was so confident in it that it couldn't be deactivated.
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post #1499 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by xsnv View Post
Thanks a lot mate. If that is it (ACE) then it works quite different to the Samsung implementation which works quite well on some SDR material. It's surprising Sony would have this in their advertising blurb and keep it exclusive to the X1 Extreme processors yet not have an explicit way to enable it.

Edit: I'm not so sure it is...on their website they have three different contrast enhancement tweaks:

Dynamic Contrast Enhancer
Object-based HDR remaster
X-tended Dynamic Range™ PRO

This suggests the Object-based HDR remaster might be a different feature...
this interview with Sony has the most/best publicly available information on x1e

https://twit.tv/shows/home-theater-geeks/episodes/341
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post #1500 of 9416 Old 06-08-2017, 03:15 PM
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Do you think it was worth getting the calibration done? Did you see any significant improvement or was it subtle?

Did you find the Gold Standard™ setting configuration for HDR content?
So, two things:

1) The improvement was suble, I think even the calibrator would admit that.
2) We couldn't measure HDR well because the TV was acting up with his HD Fury product, for some reason it would temporarily go into HDR mode and then drop right back out before the pattern appeared. It was odd, and the first time he saw such behavior. Oh well, I think much of the calibration holds during HDR, anyway, so....
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