Vizio Launches 2017 M-series and P-series XLED Displays - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 477 Old 05-01-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
I'm sure they probably are LG panels, but for similar competitive price range the ones sold it are better, fit some reason they have better uniformity. But they ARE bright, which helps overcome its overall mediocre contrast along with FALD making them an ideal option outdoors or in bright settings where contrast gets lost anyway. Especially unless you stepped up to like a KS 8000 which I doubt is $800 for a 60".

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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
The rest of your post is spot on but dude, you could not be any more wrong about recommending an LG IPS tv. I worked in the industry and they have horrible uniformity and contrast. Have you seen any brightness measurements from the Vizio IPS panel? They are much more bright than the VA panel models but they have poor contrast inherently. However, the Vizio FALD helps quite a lot. They are literally made for people who need wide viewing angle and have in brighter environments.

A Vizio IPS with 64-128 zone FALD is one of the only IPS panels worth buying, perhaps outside the very latest top of the line LG that cost as much as an OLED making them pointless.

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Why would contrast matter as much when viewing in an outside environment? The LG of brighter would be better. The sunlight is going to make any dark scene almost impossible to watch anyways. As you said the LG would be ideal for outdoor situations (which was why shoman made the recommendation he did )


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post #302 of 477 Old 05-01-2017, 11:36 PM
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Have you taken any consideration into shooting the lock off your wallet and to stop being such a cheapskate? lol
Well of course i am going to buy one (if vizio denies me a free one), point is i really should not have to. Like i said vizio did great things in 2016, but they are remembered by most for having a terrible interface (again, this isnt me speaking, ive had a chromecast before people knew what they did). They are fixing it, but its not really a fix to most buyers unless they get a remote.

I am not sure you guys realize how poorly smartcast went over with the general public, the P series is almost unquestionably the best LCD TV of 2016 (and for the money there is no competition) and ive never seen a best buy employee recommend one. Vizio messed up on a level i cant begin to explain here, to put this all behind them they really do need to offer remotes to everyone.
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post #303 of 477 Old 05-01-2017, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Why would contrast matter as much when viewing in an outside environment? The LG of brighter would be better. The sunlight is going to make any dark scene almost impossible to watch anyways. As you said the LG would be ideal for outdoor situations (which was why shoman made the recommendation he did )


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Actually The Coolest did. I think is should be whatever the brightest IPS screen you can afford. 😀

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post #304 of 477 Old 05-01-2017, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Why is this so hard for people to wrap their heads around lol?

Im not talking for me, or you, or people who post on this forum. I am talking about people who went into a best buy and bought a vizio for the value and picture quality vizio is known for and were less than happy with the casting experience that vizio forced on them. Its great vizio is rectifying this (i will say again, MONUMENTAL) error, but they are only half done if they dont offer these people remotes.
Three interface isn't BAD, too many idiots just didn't want to learn how to use it... I actually bought it for that reason, I wanted that interface and if
someone didn't, they are "fixing"it for a mere $10 remote on their end, that's IF they don't already have a universal around already and if that STILL isn't good enough, TFB, maybe they should have done their research first. I think we are all set in our opinions maybe we sound just move on to discussing other things.

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post #305 of 477 Old 05-01-2017, 11:57 PM
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Ya agree to disagree i guess, could have been avoided entirely with android OS (or what they did on 2017 models). Live and learn vizio, live and learn

It really is a shame too, smartcast would have been a runaway mainstream success....other than a "in the know" success.
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post #306 of 477 Old 05-01-2017, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Why would contrast matter as much when viewing in an outside environment? The LG of brighter would be better. The sunlight is going to make any dark scene almost impossible to watch anyways. As you said the LG would be ideal for outdoor situations (which was why shoman made the recommendation he did )


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I'm saying the Vizio IPS will be better than an LG still, the implementation of FALD makes them much more appealing and for flat out brightness FALD can be disabled on a particularly bright day.

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post #307 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Well of course i am going to buy one (if vizio denies me a free one), point is i really should not have to. Like i said vizio did great things in 2016, but they are remembered by most for having a terrible interface (again, this isnt me speaking, ive had a chromecast before people knew what they did). They are fixing it, but its not really a fix to most buyers unless they get a remote.

I am not sure you guys realize how poorly smartcast went over with the general public, the P series is almost unquestionably the best LCD TV of 2016 (and for the money there is no competition) and ive never seen a best buy employee recommend one. Vizio messed up on a level i cant begin to explain here, to put this all behind them they really do need to offer remotes to everyone.
Forget the general public, we are enthusiasts here and knew what we bought and now aren't complaining about some free remote that wasn't part of the deal we agreed to buy. Again, it doesn't do anything special, I barely use mine, I've come to prefer the app, gong backwards is now awkward.

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post #308 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Ya agree to disagree i guess, could have been avoided entirely with android OS (or what they did on 2017 models). Live and learn vizio, live and learn

It really is a shame too, smartcast would have been a runaway mainstream success....other than a "in the know" success.
Ya, I don't get it, I thought Vizio knew they were appealing mainly to enthusiasts to begin with, but oh well... Now, I have genuine sympathy for those with real problems with network drops, I have mine hardwired but I can see how it's a niche product, which I like.

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post #309 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:14 AM
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Just so people dont get me wrong here i despise smart TV on screen interfaces, but that does not mean i wouldnt at the same time appreciate HAVING it for the times i dont have a phone next to me or just to adjust settings (which i feel is a better experience on the TV). Ive had a chromecast since the first generation was announced, it was an epiphany to me over the slow proprietary "smart" tv apps (or in my case, blu ray player) but that does not excuse vizio for the mis-step of offering casting as the only option, as people are slow to kick old habits.

That's why last year i was scratching my head why they didn't go the android TV direction, its basically what they are reverting back to for 2017 with a different skin on it.
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post #310 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Well of course i am going to buy one (if vizio denies me a free one), point is i really should not have to. Like i said vizio did great things in 2016, but they are remembered by most for having a terrible interface (again, this isnt me speaking, ive had a chromecast before people knew what they did). They are fixing it, but its not really a fix to most buyers unless they get a remote.

I am not sure you guys realize how poorly smartcast went over with the general public, the P series is almost unquestionably the best LCD TV of 2016 (and for the money there is no competition) and ive never seen a best buy employee recommend one. Vizio messed up on a level i cant begin to explain here, to put this all behind them they really do need to offer remotes to everyone.
Here's my two cents - and I think this has already been said by others in this thread. . . .

1) The new firmware that will come out this summer simply adds another interface layer for hosting a limited collection of apps that will not actually run on the TV, but get pulled from a server. It's kind of like reverse Casting. When I say limited, I mean very limited. For example, Netflix is not among that initial list of "apps". You will still need a mobile device in order to Cast Netflix to the TV. For 2016 M & P owners, the SmartCast app will be updated so you will be able to control that added interface. The Cast input will get renamed.

2) 2017 M & P owners will not get tablets included in the box, and instead will get that static, limited remote. Not exactly the best trade-off IMO. If they want to take advantage of all the things offered by the TV, they will need to install the mobile app on something, and pair with the TV.

3) Here's what's ridiculous about this free remote argument. Would you be willing to give back / trade the tablet you got for a $5 remote? Should the 2017 model owners demand a free tablet because they've outgrown the capabilities of the remote?

4) IMO, the vast majority of TV owners, regardless of brand, will take the new TV out of its box, set up their universal cable/satellite remotes to power on the TV and change the volume. At that point they will change channels, hit guide, and that will be that. The included remote will go into a drawer and get dusty. They might not even venture into the app interface.
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post #311 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@JD4L
From the specs page, it seems that the M 2017 does away with the HDMI 5 low latency port altogether. All you're left with are HDMI 1 - 4 with the same specs as on the current 2016 M series.
P50 is a 60Hz panel and it has 126 (14x9 most likely) led zones, compared to P65\P75 128 (16x8) zones, I don't really know if it really matters, though, in how the black bars are handled.
Ahh so since I'm a big a gamer I might just want to stay with my 2016 m series :/ but then miss out on wcg! Idk what I'm gonna do...

Keep current m60
Get 2017 m55 gain wcg lose half hz 5 inches and half dimming zones
Get 2016 p50 gain lots... lose 10 inches and half the hz

Such a tough call for me
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post #312 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:41 AM
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The only reason it is limited is because vizio had no idea how poorly cast only was going to go over on the 2016's, now they are scrambling to put together something that the mainstream market will accept and that takes time to get deals done. (could be technical issues as well, not sure)

And there is no ridiculousness about my remote argument, for one thing im talking mostly about E series owners who didnt get a tablet for one, and secondly that isnt even the point. When you admit the TV was received poorly by doing a massive update on your product, you cant do it half assed and not offer some sort of promotion to owners for the hardware required.

As an aside the P and M series shouldnt have even had tablets so the cost could have come down, seriously who does not own an android or apple phone in 2016? But hey i guess that means i get a free tablet on a discounted 2016 model if i decide to pull the trigger again lol.
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post #313 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
The rest of your post is spot on but dude, you could not be any more wrong about recommending an LG IPS tv. I worked in the industry and they have horrible uniformity and contrast. Have you seen any brightness measurements from the Vizio IPS panel? They are much more bright than the VA panel models but they have poor contrast inherently. However, the Vizio FALD helps quite a lot. They are literally made for people who need wide viewing angle and have in brighter environments.

A Vizio IPS with 64-128 zone FALD is one of the only IPS panels worth buying, perhaps outside the very latest top of the line LG that cost as much as an OLED making them pointless.

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My M60 is only capable of about 280 nits maximum at SDR (I didn't really check the maximum in HDR without ALZ).
Apparently the IPS panels can be dimmer than VA panels, because they are less transmissive. This was asked on the P series thread (about the P55 being dimmer than the other sets) and Matt explained why that is the case.
From my experience, in a bright room (not an "outside" room), 100 backlight is just about ok, but in no way great.
I know that LG TVs often have subpar black uniformity, mine isn't that great either, by the way. DSE is not TOO bad, but it's there and easily noticeable in some scenes.
But LG TVs are known to hit 400-500 nits, and that's way higher than what the M60 is capable of.

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post #314 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
The only reason it is limited is because vizio had no idea how poorly cast only was going to go over on the 2016's, now they are scrambling to put together something that the mainstream market will accept and that takes time to get deals done. (could be technical issues as well, not sure)



And there is no ridiculousness about my remote argument, for one thing im talking mostly about E series owners who didnt get a tablet for one, and secondly that isnt even the point. When you admit the TV was received poorly by doing a massive update on your product, you cant do it half assed and not offer some sort of promotion to owners for the hardware required.



As an aside the P and M series shouldnt have even had tablets so the cost could have come down, seriously who does not own an android or apple phone in 2016? But hey i guess that means i get a free tablet on a discounted 2016 model if i decide to pull the trigger again lol.


You do realize that they are still casting with the new interface right? While the new method is based on cloud based apps, they are still doing basically the same thing. As far as who doesn't own a smartphone, many, many, many people. Also, this tablet "cost" is negligible (see cost difference between 2017/2016). But hey what do I know, we're all wrong /s


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post #315 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 09:15 AM
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You do realize that they are still casting with the new interface right? While the new method is based on cloud based apps, they are still doing basically the same thing. As far as who doesn't own a smartphone, many, many, many people. Also, this tablet "cost" is negligible (see cost difference between 2017/2016). But hey what do I know, we're all wrong /s


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Why does everyone keep feeding this guy? Just stop responding. With the multiple times he literally said "I'm right, you're wrong", it's very clear he will never come around to seeing things from a different perspective.
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post #316 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
My M60 is only capable of about 280 nits maximum at SDR (I didn't really check the maximum in HDR without ALZ).
Apparently the IPS panels can be dimmer than VA panels, because they are less transmissive. This was asked on the P series thread (about the P55 being dimmer than the other sets) and Matt explained why that is the case.
From my experience, in a bright room (not an "outside" room), 100 backlight is just about ok, but in no way great.
I know that LG TVs often have subpar black uniformity, mine isn't that great either, by the way. DSE is not TOO bad, but it's there and easily noticeable in some scenes.
But LG TVs are known to hit 400-500 nits, and that's way higher than what the M60 is capable of.
So it WAS you who had been posting all the M60 calibration stuff, I stand corrected... but I still think you aren't going to get 400-500 nits out of an $800 LG, that's definitely the models that cost way more.
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post #317 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 10:13 AM
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@danbfree

Now that I look at it, you're right. The UH6100 is capable of 400 nits, but in HDR only, and at 60" it's $1000.
I guess that if you're on a limited budget, then the Vizio can still be a good choice. But yeah, ~300 nits is not enough for an 'outdoors' room, in my opinion.
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post #318 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 10:35 AM
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Vizio’s new TVs don’t do apps the way you’d expect

https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/29/1...pps-chromecast
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post #319 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
Both the P & M have increased power consumption from last year. So I think they both will be brighter than last year.
I hope you're right. Was ready to jump on a 2016 P model until I read that it's not bright enough on 1-10% screen patterns for accurate HDR highlights.

Source:
http://hometheaterhifi.com/technical...urrent-issues/

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If you haven’t already, go back and take another look at my Dolby Vision calibration of the VIZIO P50. I hope the gears are turning in your head right now and the proverbial lightbulb of thought is turning on.

When we asked it to give us its best, to go as bright as it can over a small area…it is actually at its worst! What I haven’t told you yet is that I had to “cheat” in order to calibrate it: its output with a 10% pattern size is so low it couldn’t even come close to reaching its own Golden Reference target of just 400 nits (which if we are being honest is not all that impressive to begin with). With a 1% size window its output is below the SDR standard! I actually had to use a 35% window size just to get enough light out of it to calibrate it. It is impossible for the current VIZIOs to produce a categorically accurate HDR picture. Don’t get me wrong, the picture isn’t “bad” and cooked up high APL images look impressive, but make no mistake: it is not correct.
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post #320 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@danbfree

Now that I look at it, you're right. The UH6100 is capable of 400 nits, but in HDR only, and at 60" it's $1000.
I guess that if you're on a limited budget, then the Vizio can still be a good choice. But yeah, ~300 nits is not enough for an 'outdoors' room, in my opinion.
It's all good guys, and thanks for the debate. I grabbed the M60 from Costco last night, as they only had a few left and the $800 price was compelling for that level of tech. Since it's an outdoor location and I'll probably end up replacing the TV more frequently due to the environment it's in, I decided cheaper is best rather than starting a whole new investigation into the various LG models. If it turns out to be unwatchable once I get it in place, I've got an old Sharp 52" in my brighter office that would be an easy candidate for a upgrade.
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post #321 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 11:25 AM
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That isn't anywhere close to the situation vizio is putting 2016 owners into.
???? What situation are they putting you into????? they haven't taken anything away. your tablet/smartcast app will function like it always used too. They are just blessing with a 2nd option that is the standard option on the 2017s. would you rather them say screw it, if you want the 2017 interface then buy a 2017 like the other tv manufactures would do? wtf is with the entitlement mentality of today.

Im rather ecstatic that Vizio is keeping us 2016 owners updated to current, its rather refreshing to have a manufacturer not force me to buy a whole new product to stay current, so thank you @Matt McRae

PS and if in 2018 vizio offered a paid option to upgrade the main board of my p75 to give it the latest hdmi 2.1 etc id jump allover that too.
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post #322 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by obveron View Post
I hope you're right. Was ready to jump on a 2016 P model until I read that it's not bright enough on 1-10% screen patterns for accurate HDR highlights.



Source:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/technical...urrent-issues/


Again, there are NO hardware differences between the 2016 and 2017 P series. All the 2017 P series are is a rebranding. You will need to wait until late 2017 for minor updates or 2018 for the full update. As far as your worries, you should take a look at the owners thread, plenty of happy owners there with HDR performance.


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post #323 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:32 PM
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My only advice to Vizio-if they are listening. Is to make the i.e.-P65-c1 a stellar display, upgrade all the FW- make it stunning for all 2016/2017 owners . Then when you bring out the "newest" 2018+ models. You will have a great base of {fans} who state your product(s) & your treatment to existing owners is the" start of art", for the product/price. Vizio- could be the king of the hill. Others MFG may want to purchase you at a + higher stock value. In three years I could/can purchase a "newer" display for ~$1500 I have held onto my 2004 NEC plasma @$4200.00 for that reason.
*also, do not need TV speakers nor tuner.........
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post #324 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 12:59 PM
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@DAB

I'm pretty sure that the P65-C1 is already stunning.
All 2016 SmartCast models are getting the FW update.
And I'm sure they already have a decent fan base .

I still think that speakers are needed, not everyone has a sound bar/speaker system, and even if you do, you don't always want to use it for normal TV watching. I know I don't.
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post #325 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 03:56 PM
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I still think that speakers are needed, not everyone has a sound bar/speaker system, and even if you do, you don't always want to use it for normal TV watching. I know I don't.
I've never understood this line of thinking. I paid good money for my system, I'm going to use it. Even if it's just the news, voices are so much more intelligible than on TV speakers.
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post #326 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by THX1720 View Post
I've never understood this line of thinking. I paid good money for my system, I'm going to use it. Even if it's just the news, voices are so much more intelligible than on TV speakers.
I admit that I never owned a full surround set of speakers. I do have a SB3851-D0 setup, though. I like using it to watch movies and action TV shows.
I just don't find it as useful for watching normal TV. I don't need my bass thumping when I watch the news or some other random TV show I don't really care about.
I also think that overall the speakers in these Vizio TVs are decent, they aren't great, but I'm able to make out everything just fine. I guess all this is down to personal preference, and perhaps setup too.
I'd say that if they had with a display without speakers at all, they'd just cut a large chunk out of their potential customer base. Keep in mind that these are affordable-high-quality displays, most potential buyers are not very likely to own a high or even good quality audio setup.

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post #327 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 04:09 PM
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Turn your center channel all the way up and bass all the way down. You still get bass when you need it, and you can hear dialogue a lot better this way. I have a similar vizio soundbar, but its 3.1 instead of 5.1
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post #328 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by THX1720 View Post
I've never understood this line of thinking. I paid good money for my system, I'm going to use it. Even if it's just the news, voices are so much more intelligible than on TV speakers.


For those that have a good system, sure but there are many many thousands if not millions of people who don't which is why they are still needed


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post #329 of 477 Old 05-02-2017, 04:52 PM
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For those that have a good system, sure but there are many many thousands if not millions of people who don't which is why they are still needed


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I was specifically responding to the portion of people that do have something other than TV speakers, but don't always use it.
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post #330 of 477 Old 05-03-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@DAB

I'm pretty sure that the P65-C1 is already stunning.
All 2016 SmartCast models are getting the FW update.
And I'm sure they already have a decent fan base .

I still think that speakers are needed, not everyone has a sound bar/speaker system, and even if you do, you don't always want to use it for normal TV watching. I know I don't.
And an ATSC tuner. Dont forget the ATSC tuner.

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